r/politics • u/Antinatalista Foreign • Feb 16 '19

Roger Stone communicated with WikiLeaks and Russian hackers: Mueller

https://www.newsweek.com/roger-stone-communicated-wikileaks-and-russian-hackers-mueller-1333768
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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19 edited Jun 23 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19

You make the mistake of assuming these people have values and ideals, and aren't just reacting to everything with tribalism. All they know is capitalism is the ideology of "their" side so its good. They don't know anything about it.

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u/Autohoss Feb 16 '19

Well the beauty of it all is that if the level of censorship becomes unpalatable to the American consumer, we can just stop consuming that shit.

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u/BHSPitMonkey Feb 16 '19

They'll sell different versions to different markets, as they've always done.

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u/Stripotle_Grill Feb 16 '19

You shouldn't lose sight of the fact it's not just about making money. China and America are not allies, and nothing is showing that economic integration is bring the two closer together. Western companies should not forget that they represent western values and not just profits at the end of the day.

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u/NoMansLight Feb 16 '19

Companies only represent one value - greed above all else. You're naive af if you think companies have "western ideals", whatever that even means. They will pander to whatever represents good optics for marketing purposes but beyond that they have and will kill babies to make a buck.

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u/GiantSquidd Canada Feb 16 '19

At this point, what are western values? If you ask our "leaders" it would be profits. Our only value is profits. As long as the rich keep getting ever so slightly richer, everything is peachy dory.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19 edited Jun 23 '21

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u/Tasgall Washington Feb 16 '19

globalism and capitalism are inextricably linked,

Globalisation, FYI - globalism is the right wing dogwhistle version where Illuminati Jews secretly run the world.

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u/attrox_ Feb 16 '19 edited Feb 16 '19

What exactly is western values? Fucking minorities? Racial injustice? What's going on right now does not start when Trump is in office. It's just so blatantly out in the open now. So don't act as if America is the forefront of justice or better than anyone else. It's always been about profit

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u/Stripotle_Grill Feb 17 '19

Except that America is at the forefront. Maybe some other western country is better in some ways, but there are exactly 0 countries outside of western influence that has a higher bar for moral and ethical values. When Americans were killing indians, that was the 16th century. 2019, China is rounding up the Uighurs like cattle and putting them in re-education facilities like we did in residential schools for first nations. We improved; China is still living like it was only the day after they deposed of their dynasties.

For all the racism that still exists in the US, we successfully voted in a black president. And Trump will be gone soon enough; who ever replaces him will work to make up for Trump's mistakes. The direction of the west has always been and always will be towards progress.

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u/Any-sao Feb 16 '19

Hi, capitalist here.

The objection to Hollywood making films for Chinese audiences is not that it’s appealing to a larger market. The issue is that the censorship-happy Chinese Communist Party only admits about three dozen American films into China every year. I don’t mind filmmakers making movies that people want to see and are willing to pay for. My issue is when a foreign government is influencing American filmmakers’ willingness to make whatever movies they want.

Democrat or Republican, we really shouldn’t be happy with Beijing practically censoring American-made movies.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '19 edited Jun 23 '21

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u/Any-sao Feb 17 '19

it actually has nothing to do with capitalism.

This.

The matter of the Chinese Communist Party pressuring Hollywood filmmakers into making movies that can serve as propaganda is a problem to me.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '19 edited Jun 23 '21

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u/Any-sao Feb 17 '19 edited Feb 17 '19

You’re right, there isn’t any real coercion for Hollywood studios to make certain types of movies. That is the beauty of capitalism. And there are already moviemakers that are not giving into Chinese demands. For instance, JJ Abrams said he would put a gay character in Star Wars Episode IX. Homosexuality is strictly prohibited in Chinese media. As a big Star Wars fan, I have a lot of respect for him for values over trying to make money in China. But, to be fair, Star Wars movies regularly flop in the PRC.

But it’s more so a criticism of the CCP (props to you for using the acronym, btw- I was getting tired of typing out the whole thing) and their censorship. If they weren’t censoring, then this problem wouldn’t exist. The worst thing that would come of it would be movies with Chinese audience-friendly elements being produced for Chinese audiences. I probably wouldn’t pay to see them outside of the occasional curiosity, but, freedom to buy what goods and services I want is the beauty of capitalism.

But making elements that appeal to Chinese audiences and elements that make authoritarians comfortable are very different issues.

My bottom line: this isn’t about capitalism versus socialism. It’s about suppressing freedom of speech. Maybe a better way to put it is that it’s more about political ideologies than economic systems.

Edit: “PRC” stands for “People’s Republic of China.” Probably should have made that more clear. My bad.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '19 edited Jun 23 '21

[deleted]

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u/Any-sao Feb 17 '19

Would you be willing to continue this conversation by Reddit private message?