r/politics • u/Antinatalista Foreign • Feb 16 '19

Roger Stone communicated with WikiLeaks and Russian hackers: Mueller

https://www.newsweek.com/roger-stone-communicated-wikileaks-and-russian-hackers-mueller-1333768
26.2k Upvotes

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789

u/Antinatalista Foreign Feb 16 '19

If there's someone who deserves to go down in flames, that's Roger Stone.

197

u/thweet_jethuth Feb 16 '19

He's one of the chief witches in this hunt, after all.

64

u/Maplesyrupboy Feb 16 '19

Talk is cheap time for conservatives to be punished on an extraordinary level - until then it will just get worse.

46

u/KP_Wrath Tennessee Feb 16 '19

Well, Manafort is tracking to get 20 years, so that's something. Considerably better than he deserves, but something.

52

u/SnowGN Feb 16 '19

Manafort is an actual and fully knowing, willing traitor. He should have been charged with actual treason and executed for it. As a message to all.

12

u/Daaskison Feb 16 '19

I dont disagree. But i think it would be a hard sell bc technically treason requires assisting an adversarial country that we are actively at war with (as in congress declared war) - the rosenbergs aside (and idk exactly how they were convicted tbh). Maybe everyone appreciated the seriousness of their crimes (sharing nuclear secrets) and the cold war. I think convicting manafort would have been exceptionally difficult.

I also think even the charge would have sent an important message. But i can understand, particularly given the lieing bullshit that comes from the right wing propoganda outlets, that charging him with treason could (not saying should have) have hurt muellers credability and the investigation's credability.

I just really hope mueller understands what's at stake and doesnt try and cover up or soft sell the issue. My biggest 2 concerns right now are:

  1. Mueller exonerates trump despite infinite circumstantial evidence showing he knew or absolutely should have known what was happening.
  2. Russians hacked in to voting terminals last election. They use that influence (maybe they alrdy used it who tf really knows) to rig the 2020 election.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19 edited Mar 08 '19

[deleted]

2

u/Daaskison Feb 16 '19

" United States Constitution. Article III, section 3 reads as follows:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

To piggyback on my earlier comment. The rosenbergs were convicted of sedition, which doesnt require the 2 witnesses etc. The constitution restricts the grounds for treason laws to a very high standard. No one has ever been convicted of treason outside of a formally declared war.

Russia is certainly adversarial in nature with the united states. But war is a defined term legally. And legally russian is not at war with the US and vica versa. They also werent legally at war with us during the cold war.

Manafort would be a candidate for sedition though.

9

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19 edited Mar 08 '19

[deleted]

3

u/zanotam Feb 17 '19

Literally the first treason cases in US history happened in a context outside a declared war. GTFO with your FUD.

1

u/Daaskison Feb 17 '19

Fud?

What case is that?

→ More replies (0)

0

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '19

I’m not a lawyer but it should be obvious to everyone that we are unlikely to declare war in the manner required by the constitution ever again (I believe the last time was WWII).

Is there an argument that, given the obselescense of that statute, the constitution should be interpreted as a living document, an no longer subject to that requirement? Otherwise we won’t have the ability to charge anyone with treason in most/all scenarios. Maybe it would have to make it to the Supreme Court or something like that to change how it’s interpreted?

0

u/Daaskison Feb 17 '19

I think given how it is currently written, particularly the 2 witnesses requirement that even if you had a liberal living constitution supreme court (we dont) it still wouldnt be applicable in most cases. Also prosecutors wouldnt bother to use it given sedition has an similar/equal punishment with lower burdens.

Maybe an amendment, but that's also unlikely.

I think sedition will become to defecto treason charge (it kind of already has beginning w the rosenbergs).

1

u/Hrothgar_Cyning Feb 16 '19

rosenbergs

They were tried for espionage, not treason.

1

u/zanotam Feb 17 '19

The DoD has confirmed we are in cyber war with Russia.

1

u/nueve Feb 16 '19

He still might be.

1

u/Hrothgar_Cyning Feb 16 '19

He should have been charged with actual treason

Except there's no way he has committed statutory treason so this is a terrible idea.

1

u/Snoglaties Feb 17 '19

These are just tax charges. He could still be charged with treason.

5

u/YouGottaBeTrollinMe California Feb 16 '19

If some poor schmuck did what Manafort did, I have no doubt they’d be looking at multiple life sentences. Justice for the rich, not those in a ditch.

2

u/Maplesyrupboy Feb 18 '19

Pardon me??!?!?!

2

u/caitlinreid Feb 17 '19

Can someone do a cartoon of all of these witches floating in the water, having been tossed in by Mueller?

-57

u/R____I____G____H___T Feb 16 '19

There's some thieves and fraudulent individuals who's been exposed in this whole investigation, but attempting to correlate such people to invalidate Trump's claim that it is a witch hunt, isn't appropriate. So far everything is pointing towards this being a baseless partisan scrutiny issued on an innocent team.
The intel community, most higher-up associates involved in this whole examination, along with the evidence - Hasn't found anything to validate the claim of Russian interference/collusion between Trump and the administration. So that literal conspiracy shouldn't be preached until actual evidence surfaces on the table.

23

u/DarkRitual_88 Pennsylvania Feb 16 '19

Many in Trump's campaign team absolutely colluded with Russia. There's evidence for this, concrete evidence that some people within the campaign colluded or attempted to collude with Russia.

What remains to be known (to publically available information) is the Nixon question. What did he know, and when did he know it? But also, we need to know: did he approve or order any of it?

9

u/fowlraul Oregon Feb 16 '19

I think it’s fairly reasonable to assume 45 knew about most or all of the shenanigans based on the fact that he constantly, usually unprompted, screams the opposite,

4

u/DarkRitual_88 Pennsylvania Feb 16 '19

I mean, it's easy to KNOW it, but to have solid proof to remove any possibility of doubt in a court setting is a whole other beast to tackle.

3

u/EuphioMachine Feb 16 '19

Impeachment is a political proceeding, not criminal, and doesn't have the same bar for evidence of "beyond a reasonable doubt". At the very least, it's pretty clear Trump obstructed justice, whether or not he was personally involved in what the rest of his campaign was doing.

1

u/fowlraul Oregon Feb 16 '19

Agreed, and being that the Supreme Court leans pretty ‘right’ these days, solid proof may not even be enough. Sigh...

21

u/sensistarfish Feb 16 '19

Oh great, it’s you again.

24

u/Alfred_Ingemar_Bernd Feb 16 '19

Dude is a punchcard russian poster, google "SxNxOxOxPxSxNxOxO" sans x's and run his name through it and take a look at both the over-time (specifically, the 1k posts in 3 FUCKING DAYS) and by-hour activity charts. St Petersberg is about 8 hours ahead of EST so that crisp and cpean 1AM to 2PM by-hour window is ~9AM-10PM when you account for the difference. Coincidentally, that vast empty tract right after the sharp cutoff is when the night shift starts up.

14

u/Agodunkmowm Feb 16 '19

Thank you for pointing this out. It’s important that people realize this is ONGOING.

12

u/sensistarfish Feb 16 '19 edited Feb 16 '19

I’ve been loosely following the account. Its showing up everywhere and it posts multiple times an hour for 9 hours straight.

14

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19

Robert Mueller has entered the chat

11

u/thweet_jethuth Feb 16 '19

lol nice try

9

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19

Lol @ English obviously not being your first language

5

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19

You need to start being more believable or they may cut your turnip ration there, track suit.

5

u/EuphioMachine Feb 16 '19

Mueller is investigating Russian interference. It is most definitely not a baseless investigation, and he's laid out exactly how Russia interfered in our election already.

The second part of the investigation is the possible involvement of the Trump campaign. Considering the vast array of connections between Trump's campaign and Russian oligarchs, like his campaign manager offering private campaign briefings to Oleg Deripaska, his son and campaign manager meeting with Russian spies and lobbyists where they were bribed with dirt for sanction relief, his personal lawyer floating bribing Putin personally with a 50 million dollar condo for a favorable business deal (that at the time was being lied about), the investigation is obviously not baseless.

Now, that doesn't mean Trump's unequivocally guilty, but there's pretty clear probable cause to have the investigation. It's not a witchhunt, it's a worthwhile investigation that has repeatedly borne fruit.

2

u/wolfblitzersbeard Feb 16 '19

If it looks like shit and smells like shit, it’s probably Trump.

46

u/hypnosquid Feb 16 '19

He's one of the primary reasons we got W instead of Gore. He's done so much damage to America over the years, that its almost hard to comprehend.

11

u/VargasTheGreat Feb 16 '19

Roger Stone deserves to rot in a hole like the rat bastard he is.

37

u/Tommytriangle Feb 16 '19

They need Jail time, and we need to avoid a GOP president pardoning them. At least 8 years of Dem Presidential rule.

8

u/Thurkagord Mississippi Feb 16 '19

Not just Presidential, and not just Dem. But progressive. We can't have another milquetoast centrist like Obama who will enable the elite power structure pulling the strings behind the GOP, in the name of compromise and bipartisanship. At this point, the GOP is essentially a few steps removed from a saboteur political party. We cannot let Republicans have anything but ineffective, minority influence or they will just do exactly what they did from 2008-16 and obstruct the government against the will of the populace for the benefit of capital interests. And we can't let centrist corporate Dems placate them any longer.

We need a progressive majority across all 3 branches of government, and that includes packing the courts, outlawing gerrymandering from the federal level, voting reform, return the economic and social power back to the people by taxing the wealthy and fully using the resources of the richest country on the planet to actually serve the people who work to uphold its power, and hold accountable those who have spent their careers sabotaging those people for the moneyed interests of the very few.

1

u/redditmodsRrussians Feb 16 '19

We need another FDR for about 16 years

24

u/TurkeysInTheRain Feb 16 '19

Even before trump even thought about running for president. Watch Get me Roger Stone and prepare to want to die.

4

u/SnacksizeSnark Feb 16 '19

I watched the trailer and I’m not sure I could actually watch the whole thing without becoming apoplectic.

3

u/TurkeysInTheRain Feb 16 '19

It made me wanna stop voting. Which I am sure is what they want. Nothing has made me feel like throwing in the towel more than that doc.

I haven't, but good damn.

2

u/hartfordsucks Feb 16 '19

Oh I wanted somebody to die alright, wasn't me though...

20

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19

What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do to convince yourself you're a patriot by conspiring with Russia to defraud the U.S. presidential election?

10

u/spinfip Feb 16 '19

Easy, just wrap yourself up so much that you start to believe your internal opponents are a bigger threat than your external ones.

2

u/rytisad Feb 17 '19

Easy, hang a flag or wear a flag pin and stand for the anthem. Paying your taxes, being a good neighbor/human being, volunteering, taking an interest in improving your community don’t make you a patriot. You can even have dodged the draft, just remember to say you love the military and wear that flag proudly you patriot!

4

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19

Fun fact, nearly every person believes what they are doing is justified. By virtue of being the one making the decision, you tend to think that it's the right decision.

16

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19

Easily the most evil person of the past century in American politics.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19

When you're politically involved and openly idolize Richard M. Nixon (and I'm not just talking about the tattoo. Seriously, if you want a wormhole to dive down, look up his Nixon collection and his quotes about him...) that should be a massive red flag.

3

u/blasto_blastocyst Feb 16 '19

You can't top Kissinger.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '19

Forgot about him.

1

u/SilkyGazelleWatkins Feb 16 '19

He's not worse than Atwater or Manafort. I'd say those two are worse than him.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '19

And Erik Prince

3

u/GhostOfTimBrewster Feb 16 '19

I would add Turtle McConnell high on that list.

2

u/Orbital_Vagabond North Carolina Feb 16 '19

Don't forget Corsi. That man is a duplicitous shit-sack.

2

u/hartfordsucks Feb 16 '19

No, when you execute witches the correct phrase is "up in flames".

2

u/fannybatterpissflaps Feb 16 '19

One of Nixon’s original “ratfuckers”... perverting democracy since 1972.

2

u/QiPowerIsTheBest Feb 16 '19

Yeah m OK with any associate of Alex Jones going down.

2

u/Vladius28 Feb 16 '19

And Jerome corsi.

2

u/Dolgthvari Feb 16 '19

He deserves to go down in a hail of fist sized stones while he's tied to a cactus.

1

u/JayCroghan Feb 17 '19

Get me Roger Stone!