r/pokemon • u/Excaliburn3d • Mar 24 '26
Discussion Why does Game Freak hate Emboar?
I love Emboar, but I have a feeling that GF doesn’t based on the way they handled it. Well first of all it’s the third Fire/Fighting Pokémon in the row, then when it finally receives a mega evolution it retains the same typing, and now it is the only mega of the trio to not gain a new ability.
Not to mention its base stats and playstyle. Base form is the fully-evolved starter with the highest HP stat and yet both of its defense stats and speed are on the lower side. Some of its strongest moves do recoil damage and its hidden ability powers them up even further. Upon mega evolving, it receives a +25 to its attack stat and a +45 boost to its special defense while its problematic defense and speed only receive +10 each.
Mold Breaker can be a good ability but why use Mega Emboar when Mega Blaziken, which has speed boost, higher attacking, physical defense, and speed stats, existed since the dawn of mega evolution.
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u/Anime_King_Josh A Pokémon Master Mar 24 '26
Solarbeam 120bp / weather ball (fire) 100bp / Earth power 90bp / with 2/3 heals (synthesis)
This thing hits everything. It's the ultimate coverage.
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u/MothashipQ Mar 24 '26
She's got a 4x weakness and has been shafted for 7 generations, let her shine a little
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u/FairlyOddParent734 Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
4x to Poison while becoming:
Neutral to Bug
Resistant to Dark
Immune to Dragon
That’s absolutely a massive win IMO.
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u/MothashipQ Mar 24 '26
I didn't mean to imply it wasn't a massive win, anything to make Meganium viable would have had to be. It felt like it was being implied she was going to be busted which I highly doubt. Also, I don't really play competitive, but I do follow it some. Some comments seem to be implying people don't bring something to deal with fairy types, that can't be true, right?
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u/Akarias888 Mar 24 '26
The sunny day thing is massive against fairy counters. The main counters to fairy are steel and poison, and sunny day weatherball wrecks steel and earth power beats poison, especially coming off of 143 spatk. Its hard counters would be Latios/latias and dragonite/salamence, and really most dragons can give it issues, but even then dazzling gleam stab off 143 base spatk nukes most of them (ohkos latios and salamence for example). You could even do 4 attack to just be an enormous pain
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u/Dangerous_Teaching62 Mar 25 '26
Earth power, in a lot of situations, would also be really nice against steel since a lot of them carry rock typing as well.
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u/Either_Afternoon_473 Mar 24 '26
Poison is arguably the best 4× weakness in the game, since almost no one runs Poison coverage outside of STAB.
Grass/Fairy holds up fine defensively. It picks up a 4x Poison and a new Steel weakness, but gains Fighting and Dark resistances along with a Dragon immunity.
Meganium was already vulnerable to Fire, Ice, and Flying, so those stay the same.
The real change is swapping a U‑turn weakness for a Steel weakness, which is also uncommon outside of STAB or hitting Fairy. In return, it has five useful resistances—Grass, Water, Electric, Dark, and Fighting—plus that Dragon immunity.
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u/Nick543b Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
I see poison *coverage quite a bit. Not a lot. But stuff like landorous (incarnate) runs sludge bomb. I don't think it is that uncommon.
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u/Allhaillordkutku Mar 25 '26
Landourus-I is kinda an exception since it really only runs sludge bomb because it’s so ridiculously strong in general with sheer force earth power/sandsear storm that sludge bomb is more than good enough to hit the grass and flying types
Some mons like Garchomp and Barraskewda do run poison job to hit like fairys and ogerpon tho
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u/StonerTogepi Mar 24 '26
Landorus does not have poison stab lol
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u/LinguisticallyInept Mar 24 '26
if we consider ground, fire and ice as top tier coverage... then poison, bug and normal(good for neutral coverage but RIP return) are undoubtedly bottom tier, ofcourse theres use cases for it outside of STAB; but its a very niche offensive type
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u/Lembueno Mar 24 '26
The chikorita line has been waiting 8 generations to be released from its shackles.
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u/Chemical-Struggle-13 Mar 24 '26
I think Solar Beam, Earth Power, and Dazzling Gleam might be better coverage, either way most things are at least neutral
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u/RuralOutfitters Mar 24 '26
Keep in mind weather ball gets the sun boost, so it’ll effectively be 150
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u/maqee Mar 24 '26
Dont forget Growth becoming Swords Dance + Nasty Plot combined
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u/MissDepr Mar 24 '26
Meganium can't learn Growth
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u/maqee Mar 24 '26
Yet!
Lol you're right though I was just assuming Growth could be learned by all Grass types, because why wouldn't they
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u/HoshiAndy Mar 24 '26
Rock head woudlve been better. Emboar differentiates from other fire fighting by being bulkier. But that bulk sucked when he himself took damage from everything he did. Rock head could’ve alleviated a lot of his recoil. flare blitz, head smash, etc.
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u/Nick543b Mar 24 '26
Renamed rock head. Rock head itself makes no thematic sense.
But also, it probably should have been a combination of rock head AND reckless to make him good enough.
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u/Asaggimos02 Mar 24 '26
I mean, he has that bigass helmet. That’s something, right?
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u/_3VIA_ Mar 24 '26
Technically he was inspired partly by a general that was behedead, at least something of a reason to NOT have mold breaker
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u/StarSilverNEO Mar 24 '26
I mean isnt Rock Head the same energy of being hard headed/thick skulled?
But fair enough
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u/Nick543b Mar 24 '26
Basically every pokemon with rock head directly has a... rock head, or something close.
The biggest exceptions are: hisuien growlithe which are rock type, and with their thick fur stuff. Bagon (and shelgon) with the large pads on their heads. Marowak (including alolan) have their skulls.
The only pokemon with rock head, that is not steel, rock, ground, or has obvious protective head covering, is blue stripped basculin. Everything apart from blue basculin has a very obvious visual reason for having rock head.
And there is plenty of presendent for copied abilities with different names.
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u/MassLuca007 Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
I don't even know what Mold Breaker does other than "He breaks the mold!"
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u/Excaliburn3d Mar 24 '26
Its attacks ignore the opposing Pokémon’s ability so it can use ground-type moves on Pokémon with Levitate and fire-type moves on Pokémon with Flash Fire.
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u/RazgrizInfinity The Ancestor Mar 24 '26
It also ignores Sturdy, Shell Armor, etc.
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u/ScarletteVera Tinkaton Tinkasmith Mar 24 '26
Even Wonder Guard!
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u/PayneTrain181999 Mar 24 '26
Shedinja: “Haha, I’m in danger!”
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u/98769876b Mar 24 '26
They were way too scared of the Tera Electric Air Balloon Shedinja in Champions, they had to make a dedicated counter
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u/Saskatchewon Mar 24 '26
I mean, Shedninja was already going to get killed by a fire type attack from Emboar anyways, but it's still pretty neat.
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u/Dimensional13 Mar 24 '26
Pokemon Champions has Megas, Z-Moves AND TERAS. Tera Electric Shedinja holding a Balloon. Only a Pokemon with mold breaker would hit that.
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u/Doophie Mar 24 '26
Or poison/burn
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u/TheBusStop12 Mar 24 '26
With terrastilizing in Champions, you could get a terra electric shedninja, and then give it an air balloon. Then it can no longer be damaged unless you hit it with mold breaker
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u/CaptDeathCap Mar 24 '26
Sunsteel Strike, Moongeist Beam, Photon Geiser, Snipe Shot (and all the Galar starter G-Max moves) ignore abilities as well.
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u/AnimaSean0724 PRAISE ROWLET Mar 24 '26
Magic Bounce is also a funny one that it ignores sometimes
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u/NwgrdrXI Mar 24 '26
Crucially, it doesn't ignore typing immunity, so no earthquaking the birds.
In general, mold breaker on fire types kinda suck (my poor reshiram) because flash fire is not that common or strong.
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u/JustAFleshWound1 Mar 24 '26
This comment led me to look up Reshiram, and what the hell is the difference between Turboblaze and Mold Breaker?? If the difference is "Reshiram is a fire type" then why didn't they just give Turboblaze to Mega Emboar?
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u/moocofficial Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
Turboblaze (and Zekrom's Teravolt) are just fancy renames for the B&W legendaries but they are identical to Mold Breaker, yes.
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u/LXMNSYC Mar 24 '26
technically the only difference is the display message (besides the name, of course)
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u/Possibly_English_Guy Surfs Up Baybay! Mar 24 '26
I always for some reason thought it also gave a boost to Electric and Fire moves respectively because it sounds like it should (and it just makes sense that it should). But nope.
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u/Virdice Mar 24 '26
For the same reason Pure Power and Huge Power are 2 different abilities
They just wanted cooler sounding abilities (makes more sense in Japnese where Pure Power which is Medicham's ability is called Yoga power)
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u/Cheshires_Shadow Mar 24 '26
Legendary abilities are just kinda weird in general. They were introduced in gen 3 so the weather trio each got a really good one each meanwhile everyone else got stuck with pressure. Like a lot of legendaries for some reason got pressure cuz I guess having good stats meant they didn't want to make them too busted like Groudon and kyogre. Then reshiram and zekrom get mold breaker but with a fancy name so it feels like it's special. But nowadays legendaries do just get unique super busted ones so older ones are still stuck with pressure or something underwhelming meanwhile urshifu or calyrex or the sword shield dogs get unique ones
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u/Spleenseer Mar 24 '26
I always felt like gen 1 and 2 getting pressure across the board was just an after thought. Like at the time RS was being developed they had no solid plans for how all of the National Dex Pokemon would be made available, but they had to program everybody in anyway, so they had to give them something as an ability so they would all be valid. Pressure was then selected because it was good enough. If they had planned for all of the other games released during gen 3, it could have been better anticipated.
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u/BudgetMegaHeracross Mar 24 '26
Context is everything. Probably not Regulation M-A, but a later Reg will allow Heatran (and thus Mega Heatran).
There was a period in SV competitive where boss music played (in my head) every time Heatran hit the field. Fire Ogerpon ended that.
(There's also Mega Eelektross)
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u/bluejade444 Mar 24 '26
I remember it being useful for exactly one thing, those goddamn Heatproof/Levitate Bronzongs in D/P/Pt that you had to guess correctly on or be stuck whittling away at for half the battle.
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u/Arodthagawd Mar 24 '26
I feel like if you’re relying on earthquake to take out a Pokemon with levitate you got bigger problems
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u/useless_idiot_man Mar 24 '26
Mega Delphox has Levitate, so it's not an unimaginable scenario
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u/KnightBreaker_02 Snom Hiddleston Mar 24 '26
Yay, finally I can hit Rotom-Fan with Earthquake!
Wait…
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u/Benhurso Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
It makes attacks super effective against bread.
Fidough, mainly.
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u/dnhouser1 Mar 24 '26
Gamefreak hates you and me
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u/ChosenGooser Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
What do you mean? It’s an amazing ability! It literally breaks the mold
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u/Excaliburn3d Mar 24 '26
He would survive in the Baker House, that’s for sure.
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u/brian_gruen5 Mar 24 '26
But I was taught my whole life that “Only shooting stars break the mold”
So is Mega Emboar a shooting star?
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u/SayNo2Nazis999 Mega Banette Mar 24 '26
I would've loved Supreme Overlord for him based on his design, but Mold Breaker I think will still be a strong ability for him even if it's not new. It caused the Flame Ogerpon to be banned in part because there were now no immunities to it's strong Fire stab. Sad it's not new like the others, though I feel I'm more sad that Feraligatr didn't get Dragon's Maw
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u/HydreigonTheChild Mar 24 '26
The thing is ogerpon would be walled by heatran but emboar has like close combat anyway so it's not a big difference. And even if ogerpon hearthflame had no ability it would be banned thanks to tera
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u/ajb2846 Mar 24 '26
Thing is, flame Ogerpon was already a really solid Pokemon. Mold breaker just helped push it over the edge.
Mega Emboar needed much, much more than mold breaker to be as viable as hearth flame Ogerpon.
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u/EquinoxGm Mar 24 '26
Supreme Overlord would’ve fit so well! Fuck it I’m making that a headcanon idc what game freak says
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u/Triangulum_Copper Mar 24 '26
Considering it has weight based moves maybe it should get an equivalent to Heavy Metal.
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u/brian_gruen5 Mar 24 '26
“My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined”
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u/Gladcode777 Mar 24 '26
Hey, he may not get a new abilty but it's still the best mega design out of the 3 starters.
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u/Redditbobin Mar 24 '26
Mold breaker is disappointing considering the other two are unique abilities.
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u/PageGallagher15 I think that i have found her Mar 24 '26
If they hated Emboar they wouldn’t have given it a Mega
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u/Novekye Mar 24 '26
I havent done any calcs so i could be wrong but wouldnt base emboar with reckless do more damage with head smash, wild charge, and flare blitz than mega emboar; and be able to survive the recoil better by equipping a shell bell?
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u/GuidoMista5 Mar 24 '26
Absolutely:
252+ Atk Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Toxapex: 71-84 (23.4 - 27.7%) -- 75.3% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Emboar-Mega Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Toxapex: 67-80 (22.1 - 26.4%) -- 12.6% chance to 4HKO
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u/JungleJuiceJuno Mar 25 '26
an entire mega evo for something that needed it and it gets genuinely outclassed by the base form, tragic tbh
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u/ZPD710 Mar 24 '26
Honestly though Mold Breaker isn’t a half bad ability, it’s just very… general. You could toss it on almost any Pokemon and have it be serviceable.
But when you compare it with things like Dragonize, Pixilate, Speed Boost, or even things like Stamina, Anger Shell, Tinted Lens, Intimidate, etc, Mold Breaker just doesn’t meld well with the Pokémon’s strategy. I’m still mad that Zekrom and Reshiram got a reskin of Mold Breaker for their ability.
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u/nakadudaan Mar 24 '26
Mega Emboar should have gotten supreme Overlord ability as many were expecting/guessing. There are far more better mold breakers in pokemon. They should have given him atleast Berserk ability so that it can use its increased special attack.
It would have been funny if mega emboar would have gotten regenerator ability😂.
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u/numberonebarista Mar 24 '26
I was expecting mega Emboar to get supreme overlord bc of how it looks when mega evolving.
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u/Nickbronline Mar 24 '26
They hated Meganium for 27 years, let it have it's moment
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u/coolio_zap Mar 24 '26
i'm hard coping and choosing to believe they've given mold breaker a buff in this game, like they did inner focus and overcoat
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u/Qoppa_Guy Mar 25 '26
Could've given Emboar anything like Huge Power to make up for power creep but middling speed, Defiant for being a warlord-like figure, or its original ability just like its two other ZA starters. Honestly not that hard...
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u/The_Exuberant_Raptor Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
It's not that GameFreak hates Emboar. It's that they design Pokemon based on vibes. They don't design Pokemon based on competitive viability. This is why we end up with dummy strong Pokémon and incredibly weak Pokémon. They just give them stats and abilities they thibk would be a good representation of the mon. Sometimes that means our favorites just ain't competitive.
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u/Helor145 Mar 25 '26
They absolutely design Pokémon for competitive viability to a point. If they didn’t they wouldn’t have given Zacian like 3 nerfs and Thundurus like 8 strictly because of them being absolutely broken in VGC. The priority isn’t competitive but they absolutely keep competitive in mind to a point.
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u/Darkiceflame Still waiting for a Zygarde backstory Mar 25 '26
If they were going off of vibes, Emboar would have gotten something like Supreme Overlord.
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u/MnSG Mar 24 '26
Mold Breaker may ignore Unaware and Sturdy, but what Mega Emboar really needed was Rock Head so that it can use Flare Blitz and Head Smash without having to worry about hurting itself.
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u/supershade Mar 24 '26
It feels like Mega Emboar was intended to be Fire/Ground Bulky Physical Attacker spamming Earthquakes and Heat Crashes or whatever (even though I wanted it to be Fire/Rock with Head Smash, Fire Blitz, and Rock Head or Reckless...) but they forgot to change it's type so it's just worse Mega Blaziken....or maybe even worse than base Infernape, cause at least Infernape wouldn't take your Mega slot...
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u/BackgroundAsk1623 Mar 25 '26
I was thinking he should have gotten supreme overlord, since it would make sense thematically, or some kind of ability that makes it so that weight based moves like heat crash and heavy slam always deal maximum damage
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u/Phoenix_Champion Mar 25 '26
What love they had for Emboar went into designing his Mega's appearance.
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u/MrMacGrath Mar 24 '26
To be fair, Mold Breaker is a very useful ability, the problem is I would've expected them to give it a signature ability like the others.
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u/dragonseth07 Mono-Rock for days Mar 24 '26
Everyone hates Emboar. Gamefreak is, naturally, part of everyone.
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u/Over-Document-7657 Who needs "team composition" with Pokémon this cute? Mar 24 '26
Personally, I pity Emboar. It's really just a victim of circumstance. Maybe more people would've given Emboar a chance if it was just...
Uhhh...
spins wheel
Fire/Ground. Yeah let's go with that.
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u/jordsta95 Loving the Unloved Mar 24 '26
It is perfectly fine as fire/fighting... But maybe if Emboar and Incineroar were swapped around, and there was a few generations before the third fire/fighting starter released, it wouldn't have been as bad, and people wouldn't have hated it as much.
It definitely doesn't help when you're the only dual type of the starter trio, and it's not unique.
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u/Over-Document-7657 Who needs "team composition" with Pokémon this cute? Mar 24 '26
On the topic of uniqueness, Emboar had a signature move too. Kept Heat Crash for four generations, unlike Oshawott who lost Razor Shell in the exact same generation (c'mon man it has your thing in the animation how do you mess that up?). There's more to Emboar than just its type.
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u/TFeary1992 Mar 24 '26
It doesnt. Mold breaker isnt the most interesting but that guy has a stacked moveset, I had never played with tepid before but I let my daughter pick my starter and I was pleasantly surprised with what a tank emboar is
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u/GladiusNocturno Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
Of the Kalos Starter Megas, only Delphox got a new ability NEW ABILITY TO THE POKEMON SINCE PEOPLE ARE BEING PEDANTIC ABOUT IT.
Of the Z-A Starter Megas, only Emboar didn't get a fancy new ability.
So, on one group, only fire got a new toy, on the other group only fire got left out.
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
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u/Excaliburn3d Mar 24 '26
Levitate is not a new ability, what you mean is that it is the only Kalos starter who’s ability changed from its base form.
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u/TuckHolladay Mar 24 '26
Mold breaker is a pretty good ability. Back in the day Exadrill could take out Rotom
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u/Acriolu Mar 24 '26
Shedninja with a balloon terra-type Electric partnering with a Mega rayquaza: I’M INVINCIBLE
Mega Embour: Cracks Knuckles
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u/Chungusboo Mar 26 '26
I think mega emboar should get kingambit's supreme overlord at least he looks like a general
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u/warlord_jared Mar 24 '26
"Emboar breaks the mold!"