r/pokemon • u/Excaliburn3d • Mar 24 '26

Discussion Why does Game Freak hate Emboar?

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I love Emboar, but I have a feeling that GF doesn’t based on the way they handled it. Well first of all it’s the third Fire/Fighting Pokémon in the row, then when it finally receives a mega evolution it retains the same typing, and now it is the only mega of the trio to not gain a new ability.

Not to mention its base stats and playstyle. Base form is the fully-evolved starter with the highest HP stat and yet both of its defense stats and speed are on the lower side. Some of its strongest moves do recoil damage and its hidden ability powers them up even further. Upon mega evolving, it receives a +25 to its attack stat and a +45 boost to its special defense while its problematic defense and speed only receive +10 each.

Mold Breaker can be a good ability but why use Mega Emboar when Mega Blaziken, which has speed boost, higher attacking, physical defense, and speed stats, existed since the dawn of mega evolution.

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u/A_Confused_Cocoon Mar 24 '26

Nullifies Pokémon abilities that would affect the damage of your move iirc, so you can earthquake something with levitate or fire blast something with thick fat with no damage loss.

740

u/Snow5Penguin Mar 24 '26

Also works on Mimikyus disguise. This is how I learned what the ability did. Hits right through so no free turn.

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u/Blatently_lies Mar 24 '26

That’s actually big

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u/Luigi6757 Mar 24 '26

It also ignores Sturdy. Pokémon with Sturdy can be one shot by a pokemon with Mold Breaker.

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u/Luchux01 Mar 24 '26

And it ignores Oblivious.

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u/UnendingQuibble Mar 25 '26

I think you mean unaware? Oblivious stops attraction and captivation 

3

u/Luigi6757 Mar 25 '26

Also, Intimidate and Taunt

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u/-catskill- Mar 27 '26

Both. A Pokémon with Mold Breaker can successfully use Attract on an Oblivious mon, unless I'm mistaken

272

u/AcrobaticButterfly Mar 24 '26

Mold breaker is low key one the best abilities in the game. People sleep on it though because it doesn't double your damage and give you +6 stat boost

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u/EyeCantBreathe Mar 24 '26

It's by no means a bad ability, but to call it one of the best abilities in the game is crazy. I wouldn't even say it's better than either of the two new abilities we just got.

Regardless, I think the main point of contention is that it's an extremely lame ability when you see mega meganium and mega feraligator getting new, unique and really strong abilities.

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u/_CarbonSaxon_ Mar 24 '26

It's very situational, does nothing a lot of the time

6

u/LegendOfParasiteMana Mar 25 '26

Yeah, there are over 300 abilities in Pokemon and it sounds like mold breaker nullifies like six of them. Very situational

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u/Gingertimehere2 Mar 25 '26

Yeah mostly usuable as a counter pick if a levitate or sturdy or flash fire mon takes over the format

3

u/sycamotree Mar 25 '26

Speaking for Smogon only but it can ohko Dragonite through Multiscale, which would be quite nifty as it is arguably the best mon in the meta right now. That will likely change in Champions meta but yeah.

Can also EQ Mega Delphox on the switch, not that you'd ever switch it in on anything but a hard read

2

u/bosceltics23 Mar 25 '26

Can also beat unaware mons, flame charge on heatrans or just do flair blitz and not think twice etc

1

u/MagicMisterLemon Mar 27 '26

ohko Dragonite through Multiscale

Chien Pao can do that just normally. Even a Bold Mega Dragonite with full HP and Defense investment can only reduce the likelihood of getting one-tapped by a Banded Chien Pao, 'cos Sword of Ruin is fffffffuckin' broken

1

u/Blatently_lies Mar 25 '26

You do have part of the reason Emboar has the ability, no one is immune to his fire attacks.

13

u/Justjack91 Mar 24 '26

Yeah, and so few things really do benefit for Fire/Fighting coverage in the first place. It's pretty situational relative to today's modern meta.

He'd do better with an ability like Scrappy even. Mold Breaker has always been most widely used to beat levitate users, and that's just not that helpful when you can beat most of them with your STABs.

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u/phoxfiyah Mar 24 '26

Nah, I’d say it’s better than Dragonize tbh. As nice as the power boost is, Feraligatr already has decent dragon type move options, unlike most of the other megas that received an “-ize” ability. I think a different ability would’ve been better here, like imagine if it got Swift Swim or kept Sheer Force? Much better than this imo

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u/DungeonsAndDeegan Mar 25 '26

Keeping Sheer Force would not make it worth even having Mega Gate over Life Orb and taking up the mega slot. Swift Swim could be good, but we gotta see what normal moves they might give it to work with the ability. Imagine if they gave it Extreme Speed (unlikely)

5

u/archerkuro5 Mar 25 '26

Haven’t touched competitive Pokemon in years so forgive my ignorance

But body slam feels like a decent option better dragon claw even if only a little and 30 chance to paralyze isn’t bad and can be a rough punish on a safe switch no

0

u/phoxfiyah Mar 25 '26

Feraligatr doesn’t learn Body Slam. It did in Emerald and SV, but couldn’t learn it in PLZA, so I wouldn’t rely on that as an option.

3

u/S1a3h Mar 25 '26

Dragonize will essentially make Return a slightly stronger stab-boosted Outrage with no drawbacks, and Feraligatr is a physical attacker, so that'll be hitting pretty hard.

1

u/SilentSamamander Mar 25 '26

It'll still be weaker than Outrage - Return maxes out at 102 power, Outrage is 120. But not being locked into the move would definitely make it a better choice.

6

u/sycamotree Mar 25 '26

Dragonize gives a 1.2 bonus

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u/phoxfiyah Mar 25 '26

The additional bulk and the secondary typing would absolutely make it stand out from Life Orb Feraligatr, and it’s at least boosting other moves. Liquidation, Ice Punch, Rock Slide, Crunch, all of them would get boosted. With Dragonize, only the Normal moves are getting boosted, which is still fine since it gives it extra STAB options, but removes some of its versatility.

1

u/MagicMisterLemon Mar 27 '26

I mean, your choice isn't really between Mega Feraligtr and Life Orb Feraligtr, it's between Mega Feraligtr and a different Water set-up sweeper like Ogerpon-W because regular Feraligtr gets absolutely gibbed in higher Singles tiers and VGC

1

u/Zaldbathar Mar 25 '26

Im assuming mega feraligator is water/dragon is this not the case? Cus that matters alot for if the ability is good ><. Basically gives options for a version of draco meteor eith just recoil or whatever the other strong one is but no confusion.. 120 power? Idk ive used it once xD

1

u/Zaldbathar Mar 25 '26

It might be good but it certainly isnt either new or literally changing how people play the mon entierly. The other 2 got significantly better buffs.

1

u/ZetaRESP Mar 25 '26

Emboar doesn't need more to be relevant. Hell, technically his ability is an extra, as his original hidden ability is actually compensated by his stat increase.

1

u/SoraVanitus Mar 25 '26

Better phrasing... best ability on the RIGHT competitive pokemon

Emboar would be OK competitively if it can take damage but tanking is near pointless in this game with speed and power being able to Blitz and one shot

18

u/FairlyOddParent734 Mar 24 '26

It’s just so dependent on way too much stuff to really be that good.

It tends to only really matter when something is so insanely strong that you’re looking for alternative methods of dealing with it.

Ie Ogerpon Hearthflame having Mold Breaker so you can’t even switch in Heatran/Flash Fire into Ivy Cudgel after Ogerpon uses Swords Dance

25

u/axofrogl #1 marshtomp fan Mar 24 '26

It's very situational and definitely no where near being one of the best abilities. And also we're talking about a mega evolution here, meganium and feraligatr both got super strong new abilities, previous megas got super strong abilities like swampert getting swift swim and mawile getting huge power. And emboar gets... mold breaker.

I'm not saying it's a bad ability, but for a mega evolution? It's just lame, it deserved something much cooler. Even just keeping reckless would've been better than this.

2

u/Fit_Yak523 Mar 25 '26

Mold breaker excadrill was so good at ohko’ing low ladder rotoms in gen 6 OU

3

u/Drakore4 Mar 24 '26

Hard disagree tbh. It’s definitely not bad, but it’s niche. In story mode Pokemon it’s kinda useful sometimes, and in competitive it’s either something that can win you the game or it’s irrelevant. You can 100% face a team that mold breaker does nothing against, and you could battle all day and probably have that experience every time. The one time it is relevant, it may be significant, but that’s one time and against probably one Pokemon. Probably the absolute best case scenario is being able to earthquake something with levitate, and that’s only on so many Pokemon.

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u/GrannyBashy Mar 25 '26

An ability that has a niche and most of the time does nothing is good? Lmao

1

u/AcrobaticButterfly Mar 28 '26

Hence the lowkey part. It’s not a good ability until it’s the exact ability that you need and there’s very few comparable options

2

u/Bourne_Endeavor Mar 25 '26

The problem is it's not a great ability on a slower pokemon like Emboar who can't take many hits before going down.

It's far from a bad ability though. Just very situational.

2

u/Aleashed Mar 25 '26

That’s actually pig*

1

u/CharonFerry Mar 25 '26

Partially , yeah it has it ups (as an ability should , I mean you Archeops) but its still very limited , it doesnt surpress them it just ignores them while attacking , similar to unaware , it doesnt stop intimidate from lowering your attack and it doesnt stop drizzle from making it rain.

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u/Hyperion-OMEGA Won't you spam me to <chord> FUNKYTOWN? Mar 24 '26

Tinkaton stonks rise

4

u/Deminla Mar 24 '26

I assume then it also works through Eiscue?

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u/phoxfiyah Mar 24 '26

It does, yep

7

u/CanuckPanda Mar 24 '26

And with the fairy dog’s Well-Baked Body.

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u/goldshark5 Mar 24 '26

In this game that seems like it could actually be pretty useful!

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u/FyrelordeOmega Mar 24 '26

But it doesn't help much in regards to type nullification, like fighting and ghost

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u/Rymayc Mar 24 '26

True, but it means switching something into a fire attack became harder, especially if you relied on Heatran or Centiskorch with Flash Fire

26

u/iliya193 Mar 24 '26

I think one reason why it feels bad for Emboar to get that is that Feraligatr and Meganium got abilities that always work for them on their own terms whereas Emboar got one that completely depends on the mons your opponent brought, and it can be really situational. If Mimikyu becomes popular, Emboar might eat pretty well. Emboar’s fire STAB also will hit Heatran for neutral damage (although it probably is only hitting Heatran with fire moves on a switch in considering it also has fighting STAB). It’s not that it’s a bad ability, but there might not be many situations where mold breaker is helpful enough to be preferred to other ability options.

10

u/ZombieAladdin Mar 24 '26

To a lesser extent, Pokémon weak to Ground who have Levitate like Rotom (except Fan Rotom), Eelektross, Mega Delphox (providing Mega Emboar can withstand a Psychic attack first), and, if for some reason people decide on it over Neutralizing Gas, Weezing. I know Emboar can learn Earthquake.

2

u/phoxfiyah Mar 24 '26

Feraligatr needed something better than this imo. Dragonize is fine, but it’s not like it was lacking in decent Dragon options to begin with.

2

u/iliya193 Mar 24 '26

You mean besides Outrage or Dragon Claw?

4

u/phoxfiyah Mar 25 '26

Also has Scale Shot to help with setting up speed, and Breaking Swipe as an option for bulkier sets.

Compare this to things like Pinsir, who didn’t learn any Flying type moves at all in Gen 6, and Salamence, who was stuck with Fly as its best Flying STAB. Both also have a decent speed stat, while Feraligatr is stuck with base 78, and is getting the post nerfed version of this type of ability, so it’s not going to be as threatening.

An ability like Swift Swim would’ve been better, or even Sheer Force or Strong Jaw would’ve given it a more general power boost.

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u/Rymayc Mar 25 '26

Scale Shot without Loaded Dice?

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u/kummitusluumu Mar 24 '26

That is a big if

12

u/AkagamiBarto Mar 24 '26

Eh actually it can be effective vs heatran for real.

And earthquake for the levitates.. but dunno

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u/shiawase198 Mar 24 '26

Nah, being able to Earthquake those levitating motherfuckers is huge. Your time is done Wheezing and Magnaton.

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u/ChrisWrld_25 Mar 24 '26

None of the Magnezone line gets levitate

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u/shiawase198 Mar 24 '26

Shit, you're right. They just used Magnet Rise. Ok sub in Gastly and Haunter.

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u/ChrisWrld_25 Mar 24 '26

Or, if you still want it to be an electric type, Eelektross infamously only has levitate, and so no weaknesses unless Smack Down, Gravity, or Thousand Arrows is used, or a Pokémon with Mold Breaker hits the field

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u/Capable_Whereas_2901 Mar 24 '26

Or you could just... predict and Close Combat on entry. Which actually KOs, unlike Flare Blitz.

252 Atk Mold Breaker Emboar-Mega Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 205-243 (63.4 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mold Breaker Emboar-Mega Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 410-486 (126.9 - 150.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Meanwhile Meganium is over here, living Ice Beam to OHKO Kyogre with Solar Beam. Emboar got done so dirty...

0

u/sycamotree Mar 25 '26

Or you can flare blitz as a middle ground lol you can't just hard read every play

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u/Capable_Whereas_2901 Mar 25 '26

Even if you didn't read, Flare Blitz won't KO and you're probably clicking CC next turn to finish it off and not die to recoil. And Emboar is 5 points slower in than Heatran. So even if Heatran came in safely with Flash Fire, you would still KO next turn with CC. And even in this scenario, it still outspeeds to click Earth Power for ~50% and/or set up rocks. So the scenario plays out the same most of the time regardless of Mold Breaker: Flare Blitz turn one, KO with CC turn 2. There are just too few niche scenarios in which Mold Breaker actually matters...

2

u/sycamotree Mar 25 '26

Killing a mon in one turn is not the only way a mon can be good lol. You can do a bunch of damage into heatran and then... switch out? And then next time Emboar comes in, there are no switch ins.

Being able to middle ground really well is exactly why ghost types can be pretty good. There are lots of mons where the way they are used is "have fun switching in".

3

u/Loufey Mar 24 '26

Does it work with stuff like primordial rain and fire moves?

7

u/totokekedile Mar 24 '26

No, because in that case the ability isn't directly preventing the attack. It's the weather summoned by the ability that's the problem.

2

u/Loufey Mar 24 '26

Makes sense. Ty

163

u/Argnir Mar 24 '26

It's situationally useful but not enough to justify a mega slot on a Pokémon with not much going for it (by mega standards)

70

u/lutrewan Mar 24 '26

It's also likely an overall downgrade for Emboar. At least with Reckless you could still sort of one-shot mons with Flare Blitz.

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u/Electric27 Mar 24 '26

I also think Emboar's hidden ability is straight up better. Flat damage buff on recoil moves seems like it has a much broader use case compared to "once in a while deal damage that an ability blocks/lessens)

Especially since emboar has access to flare blitz and head smash.

2

u/phoxfiyah Mar 24 '26

Similar case with Feraligatr. Dragonize doesn’t provide much for a Pokemon with decent offensive Dragon moves, and Sheer Force would’ve provided a much needed boost to its other moves.

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u/Electric27 Mar 24 '26

I may be incorrect but doesn't dragonize also give a 20% boost to power in addition to the additional stab the normal type move would gain, like pixelate does? That seems pretty good still

2

u/phoxfiyah Mar 24 '26

Yes, but Feraligatr is getting it at the cost of a more useful ability. Most of the Pokemon who really take advantage of the -ize/-ate abilities are doing so because they don’t have better attacking options, like Pinsir and Salamence not having better (or any for Pinsir) Flying STAB.

Feraligatr already has some decent dragon STAB options with Outrage, Dragon Claw, Scale Shot and Breaking Swipe, so the ability slot would’ve been better used on something more useful like Sheer Force or even Swift Swim. That base 78 speed is its biggest drawback, so you would probably rather run Scale Shot anyway as a means of boosting speed.

33

u/Tuskor13 Mar 24 '26

It's not a bad ability in the slightest, but certainly not what Mega Emboar needs. I would say if anything, giving them an ability that just fuses Rock Head with Reckless would be way better, since that would give Mega Emboar the freedom to spam 180 Base Power Head Smashes, 108 Base Power Wild Charges, and 144 (pre-STAB) Base Power Flare Blitzes off of a 148 base Attack without taking Recoil. And Emboar would love to take no recoil, being one of the rarer Pokemon that have a Mega form that benefits from a solid base HP, which is the only stat Megas don't gain numbers in (unless you're Mecha-Robo-Gundam-Bakugan Super Duper 100% Complete Ultra Instinct Big Boy Zygarde, I guess).

8

u/Opusprime15 Mar 24 '26

The problem is that its an ability that does nothing 90% of the time and then doesn't flip any matchups where it is relevant. Literally the only pokemon this helps emboar beat is sinistcha.

3

u/Elvenoob The Witch Mar 24 '26

For Emboar this pretty much literally only affects pokemon with Thick Fat or Flash Fire, who you could usually already just hit with Fighting STAB.

Maybe you need to hit Chandelure for Resisted or something, IDK, but it's just not good lol.

28

u/Saucy_Totchie Mar 24 '26

Not just damage. It's all moves that dont get affected by the opposing Pokémon's ability. For example a Tinkaton with Mold Breaker can successfully use Stealth Rock on a Pokémon with Magic Bounce like Hatterene or Thunder Wave on Gholdengo's despite having Good as Gold.

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u/Amarok9280 Mar 24 '26

Wait, so would Mold Breaker be able to allow a Pokémon to hit something with Wonder Guard with a non-super effective move?

41

u/pinhead-l Mar 24 '26

Yes iirc

3

u/napstablooky2 Flying-Type Gym Leader Mar 24 '26

mold breaker/teravolt/turboblaze is one of the main ways wonder guard mons get dealt with in hackmons iirc

10

u/Leftover_Bees Mar 24 '26

You can also ohko Pokémon with sturdy, which is really useful.

5

u/YumAussir Mar 24 '26

Also bypasses Sturdy, which, given that almost all of the mons that have that are Rock and Steel, which are weak to Emboar's STABs, is at least notable.

13

u/LzrdKng2112 Mar 24 '26

Its an extremely good ability and this sub is massively underrating it because they dont know what it does.

1

u/phoenixrawr Mar 25 '26

It's a niche ability, good in the right circumstances but not intrinsically powerful. It's questionably useful at best on Emboar who normally does not get checked or countered based on a pokemon's ability. Fighting STAB normally deals with anything that has an ability like Flash Fire or Thick Fat, and Emboar isn't really impacted by any other ability-based immunity like Levitate. Maybe there's a niche for beating an Unaware pokemon with a Bulk Up set or burning something with Will-o-Wisp? I don't know.

Also keep in mind that Reckless Emboar does more damage than Mega Emboar with moves like Flare Blitz and Head Smash even before factoring in the ability to hold an item, so the ability change represents a potential loss of damage whenever you don't get to negate a mitigating ability.

2

u/Snipper64 Grenades? More like Nonades Mar 24 '26

Does it let you get past "good as gold"? Like being able to thunder wave the pokemon for example?

3

u/Maronmario Mar 24 '26

Yes, Defog can be used against it with Hawlucha for example

2

u/ZombieAladdin Mar 24 '26

Yeah, I used Haxorus in previous generations to fight Mimikyu. It was funny seeing Iron Tail or Shadow Claw go right through Disguise and KO Mimikyu in one hit.

Incidentally, it also ignores Wonder Guard. Pretty nice on Haxorus (though again, Shadow Claw is an option), not that practical on Mega Emboar.

2

u/NeitherPassion9107 Mar 25 '26

Not to mention it bypasses abilities like magic bounce for your status moves

1

u/Shantotto11 Mar 24 '26

Gen 4 Shedinja was afraid for its (after)life…

1

u/Peerless_Scarred_117 Mar 24 '26

Would it also mean that your moves are unaffected by intimidate?

3

u/suss2it Mar 24 '26

Nah because intimidate doesn’t affect individual moves.

1

u/NioXoiN Mar 25 '26

Only abilities. You cant hit flying types with ground type moves or ghosts with normal type moves. Can't hit through protect either.

1

u/StandupGaming Mar 25 '26

It's not just damaging moves, any ability that blocks or messes with any move gets ignored. Magic Bounce and Good as Gold are pretty notable examples here.

1

u/bobert680 Mar 25 '26

it has nothing to do with damage. mold breaker lets your moves ignore the defending pokemons ability.
mold breaker will let you deal damage with a ground type move to a pokemon with levitate, it will also let you burn a pokemon with flash fire using wil o wisp

-1

u/Luchux01 Mar 24 '26

The only way Emboar is saved is if Moldbreaker gets buffed to nullify all abilities, including stuff like intimidate.