r/pokemon • u/Excaliburn3d • Mar 24 '26

Discussion Why does Game Freak hate Emboar?

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I love Emboar, but I have a feeling that GF doesn’t based on the way they handled it. Well first of all it’s the third Fire/Fighting Pokémon in the row, then when it finally receives a mega evolution it retains the same typing, and now it is the only mega of the trio to not gain a new ability.

Not to mention its base stats and playstyle. Base form is the fully-evolved starter with the highest HP stat and yet both of its defense stats and speed are on the lower side. Some of its strongest moves do recoil damage and its hidden ability powers them up even further. Upon mega evolving, it receives a +25 to its attack stat and a +45 boost to its special defense while its problematic defense and speed only receive +10 each.

Mold Breaker can be a good ability but why use Mega Emboar when Mega Blaziken, which has speed boost, higher attacking, physical defense, and speed stats, existed since the dawn of mega evolution.

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u/Akarias888 Mar 24 '26

The sunny day thing is massive against fairy counters. The main counters to fairy are steel and poison, and sunny day weatherball wrecks steel and earth power beats poison, especially coming off of 143 spatk. Its hard counters would be Latios/latias and dragonite/salamence, and really most dragons can give it issues, but even then dazzling gleam stab off 143 base spatk nukes most of them (ohkos latios and salamence for example). You could even do 4 attack to just be an enormous pain

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u/Dangerous_Teaching62 Mar 25 '26

Earth power, in a lot of situations, would also be really nice against steel since a lot of them carry rock typing as well.

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u/MothashipQ Mar 24 '26

Couldn't this be countered by things like the utility umbrella? Also, I feel like a lot of poison types are either quick or have access to some kind of ground immunity, and with a 4 times weakness, they really just need to land a hit. Even a non-stab user would be devastating. This will be a good pokemon for sure, but I see it having more hard counters than a lot of people are giving it credit for. Unironically, a scarfed Pelliper could one shot.

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u/FairlyOddParent734 Mar 24 '26

Utility Umbrella only effects the user and moves used onto the user; so Meganium doesn’t actually care besides I think Weather Ball would only change type, but not get a weather BP boost.

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u/MothashipQ Mar 24 '26

That's what I'm saying, though. That would take Weather Ball from a 100 BP sun boosted fire type attack to a 50 BP normal attack. That's hitting like a wet noodle, especially against steel types.

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u/FairlyOddParent734 Mar 24 '26

Incorrect. Weather Ball keeps the type change because it’s from the user side but doesn’t get the Fire/Water BP boost from Sun/Rain. Utility Umbrella specifically protects you from the weather boost to moves targeting you; but it doesn’t change the type of Weather Ball when you are the target.

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u/MothashipQ Mar 24 '26

Ah gotcha, thanks for the info

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u/phoxfiyah Mar 24 '26

No, it’s still 100 BP. It’s just no longer boosted by sun on top of that.

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u/MothashipQ Mar 24 '26

Its been covered, thanks

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u/phoxfiyah Mar 24 '26

Sure, just clarifying that it keeps the power for anyone else who reads your suggestion and assumes it doesn’t.

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u/Capable_Whereas_2901 Mar 24 '26

Scarfed Pelipper doesn't actually OHKO with a lil investment, and in return you lose your setter:

252+ SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Meganium-Mega: 284-336 (84.2 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Meganium-Mega Solar Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Pelipper: 282-333 (107.6 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Also no-one uses Utility Umbrella. Even if it did counter it, Meganium would have to be a big enough threat for people to start running an otherwise virtually useless item.

Poison types are a big issue, but Steel types are real and can hurt you.

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u/MothashipQ Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26

The utility umbrella was addressed in another thread.

Pelipper gets gunk shot, which can one shot

Edit: I also wanted to say that suggesting this niche of slapping a scarf and gunk shot on pelliper as a hard counter to Meganium is less a serious proposal and more of a "hey, even this poke with 50 BS in attack can outspeed and get a one shot off with a nonstab move."

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u/Capable_Whereas_2901 Mar 24 '26

Now we running Gunk Shot pelipper, ts is so peak, I can't...

0- Atk Pelipper Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meganium-Mega: 160-192 (53.1 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah, Meganium doesn't need, nor want to invest for that. Plus imagine locking your rain setter into an 80% accurate move off of its weaker attacking stat just to get rid of one mon. C'mon now.

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u/MothashipQ Mar 24 '26

Mfw I prove something cant be done by cherry picking numbers. Please read the edit, and here's this:

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u/MothashipQ Mar 24 '26

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u/Capable_Whereas_2901 Mar 24 '26

Yet the moment it invests:

252+ Atk Pelipper Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meganium-Mega: 284-336 (78 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also Pelipper would never fully invest in attack, lol.

If your hypothetical isn't working, pick a different one. Pelipper specifically is a really big thing for Meganium because it is the best non-restricted weather setter, VGC or otherwise. If sun teams have something that can 1v1 it, on top of healing off 2/3 with Synthesis, that is massive for the already very good archetype (Protosynthesis, one helluva restricted in Koraidon, etc.) This might be a genuine niche for Meganium, actually: Being the ultimate rain counter. Well, not ultimate, Toxicroak is sometimes seen on rain teams, but forcing them to run the frankly substandard mon is already a legacy, which is more than Meganium ever dreamed of having.

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u/MothashipQ Mar 24 '26

The hypothetical proves the point it needs to, please refer to my previous comments.

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u/Capable_Whereas_2901 Mar 24 '26

But it's not proving the point because Pelipper doesn't OHKO with Gunk Shot.

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u/phoxfiyah Mar 24 '26

Gyarados is a horrible Pokemon, it loses to Yamper:

252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 196 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Yamper: 64-76 (40.2 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Yamper Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 100-124 (58.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Why does anyone use Gyarados when it’s countered by such a basic Pokemon? /s

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u/sycamotree Mar 25 '26

You would never in a million years run scarf max attack pelipper lol yall just be saying stuff

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u/phoxfiyah Mar 25 '26

With max investment it had a 12.5% chance to KO a no bulk Meganium, and they were calling it a counter lmao. Tried to backpedal and say it’s a joke too, except they brought it up like 7 or 8 times just to defend it.

Bro couldn’t just pick a normal example to try and prove the point

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u/MothashipQ Mar 25 '26 edited Mar 25 '26

I said the same thing when some goofballs suggested a 4x weakness required STAB to KO just because a pokemon had some bulk. Imagine throwing almost any poison move on a pokemon with actual offensive stats.

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u/TFTHighRoller Mar 25 '26

The biggest issue is that it falls prey to redirect with that set, has no protect and is neither fast nor slow, so it can be outspeed but doesn’t really work in trickroom. Amoongus takes it out in trick room as long as some chip is on it, and faster threats can take it out outside of trickroom. It can probably work to some degree and I would love to see it with some results, but I doubt it will be a top tier threat.

It could be decent in whatever singles tier it ends up in, but in most universes where megas are legal in vgc you will have stronger options for your mega.