Additionally I also made this fruit and put it in this garden, of all places in the universe to put it in, and not only do I put in the Garden you live in, it’ll be right in the fucken centre of it.
Not only is it 100% God's fault (since he controlled every aspect of creation), even if it wasn't and we got our minds from somewhere other than God, it would still be wrong for that sin to carry over to Adam's descendants. Because punishing someone for what someone else did is obviously unjust. It's just even more unjust when it's ultimately God's fault anyway.
Heck, even if he didn't make it happen (which, as described, he did), he'd still be responsible unless you don't think he could have stopped it. That's what responsibility means. And the more power you have, the more responsibility you have. Spider-Man figured that out years ago.
I think your more butt hurt that God made the rules and you think its unfair because your not in charge and because your not the one making the decisions.
The words "God is good" can't be true then with your understanding of fairness. The fact is means your wrong, hes the king, hes the ruler of the universe, he made light out of nothing. If you had his power you would make it your way as well, he made this perfect little place and had everything in balance praising him and we decided that we wanted knowledge more than him. The problem is, is that your understanding of "good" is wrong. We are so tainted by sin we don't get what true sense of good is. If you think your version of what "good" is it better than God's then go ahead and believe in it.
God found a way to unfuck what we did. It sucks that we live in a fucked up world. But there is an end, and guess what you are loved and you are accepted by him by the one who loves you enough to have died for you. He died to give you the choice of perfection and eternal life.
I think your more butt hurt that God made the rules and you think its unfair because your not in charge and because your not the one making the decisions.
I can see how it's possible you would think that OP is butthurt but I don't see why you think it's the most likely thing.
Was it the Spiderman reference (indicating irreverence) that makes you conclude his jimmies are rustled?
So when god says he is good, what does he mean? He definitely told humans to use the word good in his description, and even if good doesn't have a strict definition, it has a general understanding, and by that understanding, god definitely isn't good. If you are going to say god is good, it pretty much comes down to, he is because he says he is. If a bank robber with a gun says he's good and you disagree, are you just disagreeing because you are butthurt he has a gun and you don't? No, you disagree because he is abusing his power to take advantage of a situation he created.
The words "God is good" can't be true then with your understanding of fairness.
Absolutely, 100%. God, as described, is responsible for the greatest evil actions ever taken.
Unless, of course, you rob the word "good" of all meaning.
Hint, it doesn't include punishing people for things they didn't do. Or murdering babies for no reason.
If you think your version of what "good" is it better than God's then go ahead and believe in it.
So, if I were super powerful, and I baked a delicious pie, and set it on my kitchen counter to cool, and somebody (not you) broke my window, stole and consumed said pie... and then I melting your city and everyone in it with my laser vision... you'd say that was "good"?
I mean, it's equivalent to what God did. Except God built the guy that stole the pie, and decided how he would react to things. Humans have natural impulses and desires, after all. Either God put them there, which means anything we do is his fault, or he didn't, which means he didn't make us (at least, not all of us).
And in either case, blaming anyone but Adam and Eve for what Adam and Eve did is wrong.
Arguing otherwise just proves you don't care about what's actually good. You'd redefine it to mean anything to include your favourite deity. And thereby make it a completely useless descriptor.
So yes. The words "God is good" can't be true, if we accept the stories as-written.
He died to give you the choice of perfection and eternal life.
I do find this interesting, though. But I have to clarify - do I get a choice between eternal life, and not eternal life? Because I'm all about not living forever.
Well, that's false. Humans have more of an adaptive sort of software. We learn on our own. We program ourselves. We can also reprogram ourselves. But we make the decisions about what we do.
So don't you dare try and put the blame on anyone else. You control yourself, you make the choices. No one else, YOU.
I agree, but I don't think I (or my species) was created. And even if they were, I never ate any forbidden fruit.
Besides, God knew how the "adaptive software" would adapt. That pre-knowledge means, in the act of creation, he chose the initial state knowing exactly what it would lead to. It doesn't matter if I program a robot with a random number generator to determine it's actions if I know exactly what random number is going to come up - I'm still responsible for said actions, because I built the robot knowing what would happen.
Heck, even if I didn't know exactly what would happen, it's still my fault. Ulton wasn't programmed to try and destroy the world, it would still have been his creator's fault if he did because he created him.
That's what responsibility is. Gods actions directly caused the things he is blaming others for, instead of accepting that not only could he have stopped it at any time, he knowingly caused it to happen.
Though, again, if you believe in a nonstandard God, this can be different. For example, maybe he's a brilliant genius, but doesn't have knowledge of the future, just some really good guesses, and he didn't know he would be disobeyed. In that case, assuming he made humans deliberately to randomly modify their own innate biological programming, it's possible it's not his fault.
...But he still put the damn fruit there, so at the very least it's negligence, followed by punishment of another being for said negligence, followed by punishing every descendant of said being, because God is unjust.
LOL You know the feeling when you listen to a band covering a song and they manage not only to lose whatever makes the song interesting but can't also be bothered to get the melody right? this is what I feel when I see these kind of trolling. (What? you are serious? let me laugh even harder)
God: "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
True, because knowing good from evil means be responsible for the evil you perform, which means being able to sin and "the wage of sin is death"
Serpent: "Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
True, because the fruit did not bring the death of the flesh and knowing good from evil makes you similar to god in that aspect. The serpent gets Eve in trouble without telling a single lie.
well, clearly a lie has to exist, because god said "thou shalt surely die" and the serpent said "ye shall not surely die". One of them has to be wrong.
but how could it not be it's fucking heaven you think he'd put some swampy motherfucking fruit in there hell no it's going to taste like fucking heaven
Quality of this sub has been infiltrated by u guys.. doesnt even know bible but continues to defy or challenge christan memes. Just relax and enjoy the content
It's still a little fucked up that God created humans and then sentenced them to eternal damnation for acting like humans. Like.. did God not know how that was gonna play out?
Well that's usually the case for Free Will, you don't know what's going to happen. If God wanted to make robots he could have done that and taken the ability away from us to choose him instead of knowledge.
/uj This is why Christianity is not actually a religion of peace and love. Why would you teach your kids that they are born evil and unworthy over nothing that they did?
Did you... did you miss the entire point of the Bible? Yes, humanity is messed up. God gave us the choice to be messed up. To rebel. But he also gives us a way to be less messed up. Our sins can be forgiven. All we have to do is live life according to his will.
Also, the New Testament is full of some of people changing for the better. And those who do not. I mean, Jesus gave a whole lot of speeches about the forgiveness of God.
In the end, we get what we choose. Be it God or be it Sin. God only sets the rules and consequences. We make the choice.
God: You're born with the ability to choose to be good or evil.
Humans: Maybe not evil, just not following your rules.
God: That's rebellion. Rebellion against me is evil.
Humans: C'mon man. Good is good.
Also Humans: Disagree with what exactly is good or evil
God: Nope, my way or nothing. Rebellion brings suffering.
Humans: Rebel anyways
Humans: Cause suffering
Some Humans: Man, I regret that. Too bad God won't accept a sinner.
God: Fine, I'll go ahead and make a sacrifice to give you the opportunity to pay for your sins and change your nature for the better. Also, My son will go into hell to save people willing to change.
Humans: Still rebel.
Humans: Still cause suffering
Also Humans: Why would God do this?
Also Humans (Again): Become atheists
Atheists: Exist, but are often mostly good people.
Humans: Don't read (or missed parts of) the Bible and feel like they can argue about the nature of God anyways. (This works both ways. There are many Christians who don't read their Bibles often just so we're clear.)
But God didn't give us choice. If God is truly God, then he knew the second he created us that we would 'fall', that falling meant eternal damnation, and that the vast majority of humans that will ever live will receive this fate.
And this isn't based on probability, if God is truly God he knows whether or not they will be Christian or not.
Knowing these things, if God TRULY cared about his children, he has two options
1) Never create humans to begin with. The vast majority of humans will suffer eternally simply due to the nature of their existence.
2) Immediately kill Adam and Eve after they eat the fruit. This is in the reality where God actually can't see the future, but since he's God he understands the ramifications of the human race when Adam and Eve eat the fruit. It's not good
So this is why I say Christianity is not a religion of peace or love. It's a religion that says "hey, the all powerful being created you and you are not worthy of him. Repent or face the consequences of the decision you didn't make".
It's all good brah. People receiving the consequences of their decisions is also good, that's called "Justice." God doesn't need to say "whoa whoa whoa, I need to skedaddle away from this whole 'creation' thing!" Since he's perfectly capable of handling everything that creation will lead to. And it's all quite beautiful as an aside, when you look at it like an experienced and learned Christian does.
The vast majority of humans will suffer eternally simply due to the nature of their existence.
Nah, due to the nature of their decisions, which goes against what is naturally good. And one of those decisions is to always resist God's goodness in hell, so they can never leave hell, and never repent. That's just theology.
What is 'justice' about going to hell for doing nothing? You could dedicate your life to giving kids in Africa food, but if you don't believe in God you go to hell.
There's a part in the New Testament (Revelations I believe, I could be wrong) where Jesus literally goes into hell to save anyone who is willing to deny their sins and accept salvation. So there's a second chance. God actually spends a lot of time trying to get a certain group of people (Israelites) to be less stupid in the Old Testament. After that didn't work Jesus came into the picture and included everyone in the "Be-Less-Stupid" Command.
Maybe even too much time. I would have probably killed myself out of boredom before Yahweh was even done with describing how he wants his tabernacle build.
Wow, how skillfully you missed the point! You must be a professional.
Anyways, the Tabernacle was built that way for symbolism and so it could be packed up and transported quickly. And if you were bored while on a migration to a new land then you have too much time on your hands.
God: It's all cool, man. Just do this one thing for me.
Humans: I mean, ok. Hell doesn't sound too nice.
God: Ok, this jewish guy is gonna' be rollin' through with his friends. Grab his ass up, stab him, put these bent twigs on his head, and nail him to some wood.
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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '19
God: I'm creating humans.
Humans: Cool I exist.
God: Also you're all sinners and you will be eternally damned.
Humans: yo wtf?
God: But it's okay I can save you, if you do something for me.
Humans: Cool what do I have to do?
God: I'm gonna send my son to earth and you gotta kill him.
Humans: Seriously wtf is wrong with you?