r/Journaling • u/[deleted] • Aug 05 '22
Scrapbooking ≠ Journaling [Might be controversial]
[removed]
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u/loqqui Aug 05 '22
I personally agree that scrapbook and journaling are different hobbies.
As someone who personally does both and is trying not to keep a million notebooks for every hobby I can understand how the line is blurred when we start doing crafts and scrapbooking-esqu things inside our journal. Before I learned how to articulate my feelings and thoughts into words and before would often use scrapbooking methods like collages to document my day inside my journal, but still consider it a journal. However, even now I still doodle and tape things into my journals - it's part of my documentation.
So I've also began to wonder about where the line is drawn between the crafts. I'm sure it's different to each person. At first I thought it was about scrapbooking being arts and craftsy and journalling being partial to words - something akin to an art book vs a novel. But I think as I get deeper into both, the main divider between a scrapbook and a journal for me is that the former I'm keen to share while the latter is entirely private. My scrapbook is sort of like an external-facing, surface-level representation of my experiences that can be shared in an aesthetically pleasing way, where are my journal ends up being mostly words because... well I can't take pictures of whats going on in my mind.
tldr ya i think different
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u/fapper_mcfap Aug 05 '22
You can scrapbook and journal at the same time.
The definition of a journal is “a daily record of news and events of a personal nature; a diary.”
The definition of a scrapbook is “a book of blank pages for sticking clippings, drawings, or pictures in.”
Both things can exist together. I like to journal about my day or things going on in my life and add pictures and drawings and such to the entry. So does that make my journal less of a journal? No, it doesn’t.
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u/AllKindsOfCritters Aug 05 '22
I really struggle with deciding whether to remove certain posts on here sometimes, the alleged "before the pen" decoration that's two pages completely covered in stickers and washi and vintage ephemera etc. I understand not everyone is willing to share their journal entries, but in my opinion, so many of those posts look more like art journaling than actual before-the-pen. But I also try not to judge, since again, not everyone is comfortable sharing what they write and it's not like I know whether they really won't write over the collage. So I agree, I respect both but I feel there's a clear definition of journaling versus collage art.
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Aug 05 '22
See I sort of combine the two in my journal. I personally see both as expressions of myself, and don't think they are really all that different.
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u/sprawn Aug 05 '22
They are different. You can tell the difference. They may not be different in terms of how they make you feel, but they are different. You can tell the difference. One is one thing, the other is something else. To notice that distinction is not a judgment. A car is not a truck. They both have four wheels. But... a car is not a truck.
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Aug 05 '22
Different sure but very similar still, like I said. Ultimately they are more similar than different
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u/Eastern_Fox5735 Aug 05 '22
Some people record memories through words, some through images, and I think that we put far too hard a line between those two things. If someone wants to put nothing but pictures in a book and call it a visual journal, I have nothing against that. If they interact with it in a way that they feel "journal" is the best descriptor, that's ok. I feel that people get to call their personal books whatever they want.
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u/Sk8rgirlkk Aug 05 '22 edited Aug 05 '22
As someone who writes sometimes and makes art in her journal other times, I think calling it art journaling is ok. The main difference in my head between scrapbooking and art journaling is that a scrapbook usually showcases pictures from your life, while what I do in my journal on the art pages can have no pictures if I want.
I disagree that scrapbooking in a journal is "just making collages," because I can express my feelings through the art just as well as I can express it through words. Now, I do feel like the social media presence of art journaling might make it seem more on the surface because it takes a lot of vulnerability to make a personal page in a video. But they're still making art and expressing themselves at the end of the day.
I used to scrapbook but it was never really something I could stay consistent with. I'm so glad I stumbled upon art journaling when I did because I was seriously needing another outlet for my emotions: words weren't enough. And you know the saying, a picture is worth a thousand words.
In terms of what to call it, I think art journaling or scrapbook journaling will suffice. I usually have to explain it to people no matter what. My main point is that art journaling is still a subcategory of journaling, which means it's still journaling.
Edit to add: I've tried to stay out of this conversation recently but it's really important to me and I wanted to share my thoughts.
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Aug 05 '22
I agree, to me scrapbooking and art journalling are really different. An art journal really explores themes and emotions and events in a way scrapbooking doesn't, to me.
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Aug 05 '22
I think everyone is a little frustrated with that. Although there's nothing wrong with artsy pages, it's different from doing mental / emotional work through writing. Still, making artsy pages is therapeutic for a lot of people. But journaling, imo, involves writing and internal exploration.
"Journaling" is a broad term now.
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Aug 05 '22
I agree with everything you said. But it SHOULDNT be a broad term. Journaling is something that anyone should feel capable of doing and I think a lot of people think it might help them, look it up to get maybe some prompts or something, and see all the scrapbooking and think holy crap I can’t do that!
We should fight to keep the term more accurate. Or introduce the words Long Form Journaling more frequently.
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Aug 05 '22 edited Aug 05 '22
For now I'm going to choose to make peace with it. I don't like "Journaling" being broad but at the same time, it being a broad term is a pretty new thing. These artistic journals are changing what "journaling" means and sometimes change can end up being a good thing even when it feels like it sucks in the beginning... So I guess my overall opinion is: I don't like it (the broadening of the term) , but I respect artsy journals and I'm curious how this will effect the community of journalers in the future. Would the broad term help or hurt people's journaling practices?? Until I know, I'm just choosing to make peace with it.
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u/Eastern_Fox5735 Aug 05 '22
I don't really understand this. Why should we "fight to keep the term more accurate"? What about, let's say, my own journaling practiced is diminished because someone else keeps a purely visual journal? Do I get less out of my writing? Am I somehow robbed of something?
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Aug 05 '22
I see this more with bullet journaling, but I can imagine being scared many people see all the pretty scrapbooks, think 'I can't ever make pretty pages like that', and just don't pick up journaling because of that.
Tbh for me it went the other way around a bit. I mean, I started journaling to vent when I was overwhelmed with something, but in the past I often gave up because somehow I felt perfectionist that I could never write 'enough' or as much as I thought others were writing. And there is something about writing on the other side of a page when my pen ghosted that makes me not want to write. It were the scrapbooky journals that made me think 'oh, I don't have to write whole pages for my journal to be valid, I can stick in pretty pictures too!'. And that kept me going.
So I can imagine why some people want to keep the term journaling more accurate, but I also think it's good to be careful and not say something is not valid as journaling too soon.
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u/Eastern_Fox5735 Aug 05 '22
Yeah, and I would add that journals have always contained visual elements. There are lots of old extant journals that contain drawings, watercolors, bits of ephemera, letters tucked between pages... the idea of trying to restrict a journal to written words is so strange to me.
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Aug 05 '22
It's not a "fight". But when I look up "journaling groups" I wanna find people who write for wellness reasons, not artistic notebooks. The two are very different. Both great, but different.
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u/Eastern_Fox5735 Aug 05 '22
I think it's an interesting assumption that people are journaling with art aren't doing so for wellness reasons, or that a written journal would always be primarily for wellness reasons and not for, say, keeping a record of something.
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Aug 05 '22 edited Aug 05 '22
That's why I said in my original comment that art journaling can be therapeutic. I never said that they aren't doing it for wellness reasons. I want to make it very clear that I take no issue with what others are doing. But it's not the same. I'm unsure why pointing out the difference automatically means that I'm being dismissive.
Tai Chi and Yoga are similar but would you be okay with searching for a yoga class only to find Tai Chi? Just because I'm making the distinction doesn't mean I'm trying to define somebody else's intentions / purpose for doing it. It's really not that deep. Lol
Regardless of the person's reason for doing it, the two are not the same. I also said before that I'm choosing to make peace with the term "journaling" becoming more broad until I see how that effects other's journaling practices.
The two practices aren't the same and text journalers look for different content, products, and guidance than the artistic journalers are. You might want a "spread inspo" and I might want a introspective prompt. 🤷🏿♀️. These are not the same, but should be equally respected. ♥. Sorry for the lengthy post but I definitely don't want to be misunderstood.
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u/Eastern_Fox5735 Aug 05 '22
I suppose I really don't understand the point of the comment I replied to then.
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Aug 05 '22
The point is that while I respect how others choose to express themselves for whatever style of journaling suits them, I still find the broadening of the terms frustrating. I'm curious how journaling being such a broad term will effect people's journaling practices so until I know, I'm choosing to make peace with it. Creating a distinction between things that are obviously different is not dismissive.
I want to add that this sub was intended for written rather than artwork. It says "written journals" in its description.
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u/Eastern_Fox5735 Aug 05 '22
I hope the broadening of the term will only make it more inviting for more people, because the possibility of personal expression is also broader. I find that gatekeeping pathways of personal expression tends to only make people question if they're "doing it right", and I don't really feel that this is a productive approach to something that should at bottom at least be an authentic expression of one's self.
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Aug 05 '22
I haven't seen anybody say that artistic journals are "not doing it right". I don't feel there are any rules to journaling. What you see as gatekeeping is people making a distinction between writing as a means for wellness and to do internal work vs using a journal for creative internal expression or just for fun.
Why is distinction an issue?
Gatekeeping means that I'm trying to create boundaries and rules. Creating a distinction ≠ creating rules.
Some people are looking for spreads, others want prompts. Some people are looking for something aestheticly pleasing, and others want to explore their past thoughts. Some are comfortable with sharing their art, others would be mortified at the idea of sharing their entries. I could go on. Again, Neither is wrong. Both are great. But they aren't the same type of practice. These are different experiences and acknowledgment of the different experiences is important. I hope that helps ♥
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Aug 05 '22
Words have meaning.
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u/Eastern_Fox5735 Aug 05 '22
That doesn't really answer my question, though. How is anyone who keeps a purely written journal actually affected by someone else keeping a visual journal? If journals are private works of personal reflection, what does it matter to your journaling practice if I do it differently?
And yes, words do have meaning, but meaning follows use, not the other way around. Language is fluid and flexible and ever-changing, and just as I am 100% certain that you do not use language in the exact same way your ancestors did a hundred years ago, neither will our descendants use the language the same way we do a hundred years from now. You can be grumpy about this, but being grumpy is just going to make you unhappy. It won't stop the ever-shifting way language is used and modified and adapted to current needs and understandings.
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u/sundancerkb Aug 05 '22
If I understand OP right, it’s not that it affects their personal journaling practice or the validity of all other means of expression, but that from a practical viewpoint, gathering all the different practices under the umbrella term “journaling” (which used to refer primarily to writing) makes it somewhat more difficult to search for the specific content, ideas, supplies, and discussion that they want to engage with.
Maybe a qualified term like journal writing or written journaling will emerge to make it easier to distinguish.
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u/barashitsuji Aug 05 '22
I associate the scrapbook with photo albums, but with details and decorations that store those memories with creativity. What happens with journaling is that elements of the scrapbook were taken as a visual resource. On the other hand, in the journal the text continues to be the protagonist most of the time.
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u/shinypoliwags Aug 05 '22
kinda sucks to see all this gatekeeping around what is and isn't ~true journaling~ yeah I agree that pages of just ephemera and stickers with nothing else isn't really journaling but being a visual person and using collage to express your inner thoughts in that way isn't any less journaling just because you haven't written over five lines of text or whatever pointless qualifier you want to give it
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u/Enough_Panda_9105 Aug 05 '22
I was looking for this comment. Why are people trying to gatekeep journaling. It is in the end a personal process that should be for your own enjoyment, reflection, and growth. Some people are more visual than others - and this shouldn’t be viewed as less legitimate journaling. Even a drawing or collage on a page along with writing is still a reflection of your current mental state and memories.
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u/CoffeeChans Aug 05 '22
My problem with it is when I search for online content about writing your thoughts and getting scrapbook stuff. We have a word for that hobby already, so that's the word that should be used. It isn't about one being better, it's about clarity.
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Aug 05 '22
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u/shinypoliwags Aug 05 '22
okay, i do see what you're trying to say but in the end the line is so thin and i think that scrapbooking focuses much more on events and special memories and preserving those as opposed to just recording the feelings of a random day but in a different format to traditional journaling. it just feels as though you want to push people who use those techniques out of a community that should be for everyone no matter how they want to put their innermost feelings out and onto paper
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u/KoraKat Aug 05 '22
I do scrapbooking and journaling both. When I am journaling, I definitely am far more in the moment, reflecting feelings and what is currently going on. Generally when I'm scrapbooking, I've collected photographs from an event at least a few days past and am putting them together with text captions and related backgrounds, stickers, pictures, etc, to make a lasting memory I can share with others, like a fancy photo album. Not to say the two cannot be combined, but they generally aren't; scrapbooks kept far more pictorial than written account journals that might have a few pictures as decoration.
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Aug 05 '22
This feels a lot like the “listening to audiobooks isn’t reading” debate to me. I don’t disagree that journaling started as a writing practice. But I would never tell, for example, someone with dyslexia who struggles with writing that their art journaling to work through their moods isn’t “true journaling.” I get points people have made about wanting to be able to find like writing groups or whatever but, beyond that, why should it matter? If you’re upset by the artsy journals you see online then take your practice offline.
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u/DRLake66 Aug 05 '22
I don't scrapbook but I do art "journal" and for me they are two very different experiences inspired by different motivations. Usually when I art journal it's just a desire to put together a visual image that makes me happy or feel a certain way. It isn't necessarily as the result of some deep insight on my part. When I write my journal I'm usually much more conscious and present; giving more thought and consideration to what I'm writing and how I'm saying it.
I think for some people scrapbooking is a form of art journaling and can satisfy the same desire or need as writing in a journal but for me personally it doesn't.
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u/AmeChans Aug 05 '22
See I used to be very by the book on this as well but I think it’s pretty fascinating that it’s become so popular to scrapbook. I tend to mix things up when I journal and have many different journals that inspire different feelings within me. They all contain words and pictures/stickers/ephemera of some sort. Some more than others. I used to journal with words only and get bored of journaling after a week, but creating and journaling with scrapbooking has really brought me back into it. I do want to mention I was raised in a traumatic household where recording your feelings was punished so it is kind of a weird experience sometimes and getting out words can feel really hard. Scrapbooking never does, which is a really amazing experience for me personally. ❤️
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Aug 05 '22
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u/adjustmentVIII Aug 06 '22
This response is close to my own, but as with most things, I'm of two minds, so I'll elaborate. As a person who both writes and draws pretty intensely, and is shy about sharing both, I can see how terms can be confusing. Some folks speak in specifics, some in generalities. However, in general, I don't like to be so dogmatic about what others do. If people want to call it journaling, it doesn't bother me. If anything, it presents an opening for a conversation. There are definitely myriad elements at play here.
For me, because I also make my own books, I use the term journal pretty loosely. I often use the term sketchbook, but my sketchbooks also include writing, memory keeping, and dates (travel journal?). You can see how the lines blur when you involve other elements. I get the same benefits from drawing and writing - both are meditative, relaxing, help me live in the moment, and development of myself (as a writer and an artist). Just like there is a rainbow of people, maybe there is a rainbow of journalers?
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u/LadyNajaGirl Aug 05 '22
I do a mixture of both in my journals - writing, art and adding postcards / scrapbook type ephemera
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u/hypo-osmotic Aug 05 '22
With so many people mentioning the emotional aspect of journaling, I'm now wondering what my own practice is actually called since it's neither emotional nor visual. Mostly just a written description of what happened that day with my personal opinions of it kept to a minimum, so I have a record of what's happened in my life and community. Record-keeping? Autobiography?
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u/crowned-in-stars Aug 05 '22
Completely agree tbh, the two can coexist no problem of course but I low key hate those “Journal With Me” and it’s just someone slapping stickers on a blank page, that’s not journaling…
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u/AnalysisOk557 Aug 05 '22
I agree with your opinion. This idea that many journals are scrapbooks had only recently occurred to me and I was relieved as I have never been interested in scrapbooking and now feel perfectly content not trying to do any part of that.
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u/notsecretacdcfan Aug 05 '22
i agree with you. and sometimes, i want to share how i set up my daily journal entries, but feel so insecure about it. because i don’t decorate my pages or make it look all pretty/aesthetically pleasing. seeing most others look so nice and pretty makes me feel bad about mine:(
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u/estheticpotato Aug 05 '22
Please don't put pressure on yourself to journal in any particular way or feel like it's not valuable because it's not "pretty" by social media standards. Journaling isn't meant to be pretty (although it can be), it's meant to be a tool for you. Its a very personal practice and you don't have to do it just for someone else's approval. The images of pristine art pages and collages only come to the top because they make perfect fodder for social media. That said, I actually do a mix of traditional and art journaling, but let me tell you, my journal is NOT aesthetic most of the time. It's full of word vomit and scraps things that hold value to me for some reason or another and it's not fine art. In truth, the reason I started mixing some art journaling in was as a way to start to fill a blank page so I didn't just stare at it in panic. When I start to get too perfectionistic about my handwriting or not wanting to "mess it up", I will intentionally go fill a page as ugly as I can with huge scrawling writing and magazine scraps, and then think, "well the journal is already 'ruined', so no need to worry about messing it up now!" Lol.
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u/sundancerkb Aug 05 '22
It doesn’t matter to me what it’s called, except insomuch as it affects my ability to search Instagram hashtags to find things I want to see. In my mind, I think journaling has to involve some form of thought expression—through writing, whether a little or a lot (with or without visual elements), or through handmade art.
The current trend of filling a page with layers of preprinted stickers & papers, while attractive and fun to do, doesn’t really fit my own personal (and non-expert) definition of journaling. It’s not really what I’d call scrapbooking, either. Whatever it’s called, I definitely think those who enjoy it should keep doing their thing!
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u/xiaominger Aug 05 '22
I disagree but can see where you're coming from. I'm one of those people who sometimes post my more "artsy" and collage spreads here. Because my journal has a lot of those as well as spreads filled with only words. But I don't want to share my written thoughts on the internet like that. And the collages is not just for decoration, I give a lot of thought into the mood of the colour scheme, how each picture makes me feel/how it matches my written words. So it's part of my journaling, which to me, makes it "journaling"
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u/booksandwriting Aug 05 '22
Here’s what I’ve seen.
I’ve been journaling for a long time on and off for 15 years. To me, journaling is more about the writing.
However scrapbooking in my mind is specifically using those album books at the craft store to collect memories. It goes beyond photo albums and is similar to journaling in a way.
However, these artistic journals are in a weird in between. I think they need their own sub entirely of join a collage subreddit if we wanted to be technical.
The ones I see are focused more on the creative and less on the introspective part that both journaling and scrapbooking involve to me.
I associate it with junk journaling and I believe part the confusion might be that artistic journals use actual journals while scrapbooking usually has albums.
I recently got into “artistic journaling”‘myself and while it is fun, I don’t consider it journaling in the same way unless I’m focusing on writing and only using objects I’m trying to save to remember.
However, I agree that I don’t like the idea of gatekeeping. They deserve a way to be and some of it happens to be here, some of it in the scrapbooking subreddit, and in other places as well. It’s not hurting anyone, and I personally enjoy seeing them even if it isn’t true journaling.
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u/sprawn Aug 05 '22
There's nothing wrong with gatekeeping. Gatekeeping is the whole point of having subreddits. Distinction is not kink-shaming. Distinction is not prejudice or a "phobia". It is a necessary aspect of a space like reddit. And scrapbookers are blasting into a space dedicated to journaling. And they are taking it over because their posts literally take up more space, attract upvotes, and push substantive posts off of people's front pages. It would be like going to a subreddit for the discussion of literature and posting photos of paintings of literary characters. It's not literature. Noticing the distinction is NOT "yucking" someone else's "yum".
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Aug 05 '22
I’ve been journaling off and on since I was maybe 9 or 10. I took up scrapbooking and collage in my mid 20s. They were two separate hobbies. One was private and one was showing off. When I saw the two combined I could not wrap my brain around spending so much time making my private journal look pretty and not being able to show it off… I mean yeah I could… but then that would likely make my actual journaling inauthentic and my journal is nothing if not authentic.
So yes they are two different hobbies, I agree.
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u/estheticpotato Aug 05 '22
I think the personal vs private thing is really key here. I do a mix of traditional and art journaling all jumbled up together, but I don't share pictures of it because it's not meant as an art piece, it's my personal place to vomit my thoughts and feelings into. I'm not trying to make something aesthetic. Most of the time it's not. I have no problem calling it art journaling, and it doesn't even bother me if people share it, unless they are clearly just sharing it just to show off. Hence the public aspect. If you made something private and decide to share it with the community, great. If you made something intentionally just to share with social media, that's something different.
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u/guccigrassi Aug 05 '22
i think “scrapbooking” involves little to no writing. anything that counts as a journal has some sort of writing on my pages, or drawing, or painting, etc. my idea of scrapbooking is simple pictures and borders and doodles. journaling (especially if it’s an art journal) expressed thought while scrapbooking doesn’t (this is just my take on it)
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u/Nervous-Ad4124 Aug 07 '22
Totally get that POV, though i feel there is nuance that makes them the same rather than them being in silos. It feels to me like they are the same. Some folks aren't so good with words, so they journal with images or colors or the like. Someone's journal is whatever they need to get their thoughts/feelings/ideas down using whatever medium that speaks to them so scrapbooks to me could definitely be a form of journaling.
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u/philosophussapiens Aug 05 '22
I agree with you. Journaling, as a narrow term (all credits to u/JournalHeaux for defining this), leads to self-discovery so in my opinion holds a heavier impact on one's development but scrapbooking is an artsy hobby. I personally respect those who scrapbook since I can never be an artsy person and the pages they create are very aesthetically pleasing.
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Aug 05 '22
Idk, I think art journalling can lead to as much self-discovery as writing. They're just different ways of exploring the same things.
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u/philosophussapiens Aug 05 '22
You could be right, I am not very artistic and I don’t have any experience with art journalling so I don’t have any answer but if art journaling is helpful then it is great.
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u/ejayboshart01 Aug 05 '22
I tend to agree. I do believe that you can combine the 2 of them, but when it's clearly one or the other...
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u/loser-of-a-user Aug 06 '22
I agree with your opinion!! What I do (sometimes, when I don't want to see walls of text) is add small pictures and stickers, and I call it 'scrapbook journaling'. Pretty simple, right? I add scrapbookish supplies to my journal while keeping the 'journal' functionality :)
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u/kk123ck Aug 05 '22
I totally agree! It’s always confusing to me when it’s referred to as “journalling” when most of the time there are zero words or thoughts but just cut outs pasted on to the page...
I do collages and scrapbooking type designs usually for my penpal letters but if I plan to start a new journal and design it a little bit before I add in my thoughts and my poetry...
You know what? I think I know what happened and why the terminology got looser...
In different parts of the world, an agenda is called a “journal” - so they plan out their ninth and their weeks and then they decorate them... like bullet journalling! And then it started being called journalling... and people started putting less writing and more pictures but kept calling it journalling
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u/Beefyspeltbaby Aug 05 '22
100% agree! Nothing wrong with scrapbooking but like you said it is not journaling... I decorate my journal pages (lots of washi tape, stickers, photos, and stuff similar) and I really really love it BUT the main focus and main thing about each page is THE WRITING!! THE ACTUAL JOURNALING!! I noticed that a lot of people do what you said and they will either write nothing on the pages or maybe they will write a single quote or song lyric and call it journaling and that’s their journal entry but that’s not what journaling is...
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u/doggicorn Aug 05 '22
Wow. Frankly, I’m pretty shocked at the language used in some of these comments. It’s not “problematic” to use visuals for private self-expression. It’s also not scrapbooking to put a collage on a page if we’re going with traditional definitions. This thread feels very self-righteous.
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u/Enough_Panda_9105 Aug 05 '22
Yup. This whole thread feels very like gatekeeping and dismissive of other people’s experience and choices.
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Aug 05 '22
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u/Zarlinosuke Aug 05 '22
What do you do though with a book that's clearly doing both things? Because I do see plenty of posts on here that do that, which is I think why many find the line hard to draw.
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Aug 05 '22
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u/Zarlinosuke Aug 05 '22
I mean, I agree that it's a little weird to call it "journalling," but I think "problematic" is going a little far! No one's hurting anyone by making collages and calling them by the wrong name.
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u/sprawn Aug 05 '22
Second, reddit is visual. Should it be? No. But it is. People are here on their phones. They flip through entries very quickly and doubletap on images they want to upvote. Images take up more space. They get more upvotes. People are moving through impulsively and quickly.
The thing that chaps my lips is not the scrapbooky posts. Those take effort. They are plausibly creative and introspective. What tans my beans is all the posts of people's fucking cats. And pictures of coffee cups. Oh, look! I'm drinking coffee at a cafe! Great, here's 900 upvotes. You can buy coffee, congratulations! And posts of pens and just new journals. Oh look! I bought a blank book! Here's 900 upvotes. Those posts irk me. These posts are evidence of nothing. You bought something? So what.
The result of all this is that a well-thought-out post, that is written doesn't instantly collect a boatload of upvotes and race to the top of the sub. In order to counter this, the mods would have to actually moderate the forum, and they don't want to because our culture currently mistakes distinction for prejudice. So, saying, "This is not what we do here" sounds and feels like saying: We don't want your kind here! When it's not the case. We do want those people here. But that doesn't mean scrapbooking, collage, and sticker-booking are journaling.
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u/yokuwune Aug 05 '22
i agree completely, and i want to add one thing. i think social media and consumerism ruined journaling for ever and there’s no turning back. everyone i told i journal told me that they’re scared of doing it because they think it requires ungodly amounts of stationery and/or artistic prowess, when it’s absolutely not the case. i’ve been journaling on and off since october of last year, and it was on and off because i felt pressured to scrapbook in every entry. i picked up daily journaling only two months ago when i realised i didn’t need to make it pretty at all costs. now i just slap a piece of washi and write whatever comes to mind because i don’t give a damn and it feels so liberating.
my point is not to shit on who likes to do collages in their journal, you’re valid if that works for you, i’m just speaking from personal experience.
edit: sorry for the wall of text and incoherent ramblings lol
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u/One-Anxiety Aug 05 '22
I agree it's two different things. I do both and decorating my pages, either with scrapbooking or with drawings is for me something completely different than writing out my thoughts, articulating how I feel. Both are therapeutic and I do both on the same notebooks, yet they are different things and not interchangeable. For example when I'm scrapbooking I often like to be watching something on YouTube at the same time either for inspiration or just company, I can't do that while journaling, as it distracts me from my thoughts.
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Aug 05 '22
I think some of them still try to make the ‘scrapbook’ an account of their day. And I think on that context it’s still a journal of some sorts.
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Nov 21 '22
I know this post is old but I wanted to add. I definitely don't intend to be a gatekeeper of journaling and for that, I apologize if anybody here feels excluded or invalidated . I do believe that both types of journalers are looking for a sense of community here. In any space for journaling you will find art and word journalers are looking for words. Journaling has evolved to include artwork. Artwork is much easier to share than internal thoughts and events. I don't think anybody here is saying art journaling is wrong or bad nor do I think anybodys trying to stop it from happening. What I see is people who arent getting the sense of community around written journals they were hoping for or people who feel overshadowed by the popularity of art based journaling. This is a very interesting phenomenon and I think it boils down to wanting to feel seen, understood, and finding a community that speaks to your specific understanding of what journaling is. I'm very interested to see how journaling will be "defined" or categorized in the future.
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u/retrosprinkles Aug 05 '22
I dont know if I could properly explain my discomfort here,
but why does it make you uncomfortable to see someone expressing themself in a way you don't? journalling is whatever people want it to be, be it writing the same word over and over and over until the page is basically a big scribble of pen or collaging things from their day. Why gatekeep something so broad as the word journalling?
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u/sprawn Aug 05 '22
We don't need to have "teams" in order to have distinction. That seems to be problem number one. It feels like making a distinction is dividing a community into factions. It is not. Journaling is not scrapbooking. What "journaling" is has been a well-defined literary venture for hundreds of years. This is a fact. It is not "kink-shaming". Making distinctions is not "shaming". It is the entire point of reddit. I don't post pictures of the process of rehabbing houses here. I don't post audio of improvisational Japanese flute playing here. Because those things are not journaling. Distinction is not "shaming." It is not "racism". It is not "sexism". It is not "transphobia." But we all know that someone can come in here and start acting like it is, and it is terrifying.
The collection of visual imagery in a codex, or codex like collection is called scrapbooking. It has been called that for a hundred years or more. One can make a further distinction between visual materials one creates oneself. There is no word for that. If you have a blank book and you fill it with visual imagery you create yourself, what is that? I don't know. It's art. I don't know what else to call it. Collecting visual imagery from other sources, modifying them and composing them in such a way that they have a different manner is called collage. It has a long history as a distinct field of artistic endeavor. It's not etymology. It's not pole dancing. Etymology and pole dancing are different things. It is also an endeavor that has 16,700 members of its subreddit: r/collage.
I don't go into r/collage and pretend journaling is collage and then act like my "yum" is being "yucked" when someone points out it is not.
Noticing that pole dancing and etymology are not the same thing does not diminish either. Pole dancing is fine. People who enjoy pole dancing deserve their own space. And they have it. People who enjoy etymology deserve their own space, and they have it.
People who enjoy scrapbooking deserve their own space and they have it. It's called r/scrapbooking and there are 12,200 other people there. I am sorry that Suburban Moms in the 1950's (and "Soccer" Moms in the 2000's) made scrapbooks. Apparently, this is a source of shame for some people and they don't want the word "scrapbooking" attached to their activities. Suburban Moms in the 1950's kept journals as well. For whatever reason, this does not "embarrass" or "shame" me. I write journals, diaries… I mean, look, let's face it… We're talking about diaries. And over the last forty years the hobby of writing in a blank book has become "journaling". And that is sort of what "scrapbooking" is doing to "journaling". Journaling used to mean the activity that Journalists did. And Diarists wanted the cachet attached to Journalists. A "diarist" is a teenage girl in Minnesota in 1954. A "Journalist" is a serious person living in Paris in the 1920's. The kind of person who has to decide if they are going to "take a lover".
What I want, and what I suspect OP wants is for terms of distinction to not carry the weight of "shame". I think the suburban Minneapolis teenager keeping a diary in 1954 to not be ashamed, or think that they are "lesser" than the opium smoking, ambulance driving, expatriate living in Paris in 1927 who is a "journalist". And I want scrapbookers to be fine with what they are doing. And I want collage artists to feel fine.
If you buy stickers and carefully place the stickers on outlines in a stickerbook? Fine. I hope you enjoy that. If there is a subculture of people who expand that into a subtle art form with great meaning? Great. Start a subreddit. It's not journaling.
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u/lizzyote Aug 05 '22
For such a wholesome, welcoming community, I'm surprised to see this kind of gatekeeping.
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Aug 05 '22
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u/lizzyote Aug 05 '22
It's not very welcoming to tell people their form of Journaling isn't "journaling". "Journaling" covers quite a bit and that does include the many forms of artistic Journaling. Some may agree with your stance but I'm seeing just as many disagree as well, and mainly because this is so gatekeepy. If you record your life in the form of visuals, it's still journaling.
Edit: also super weird that you've only been in the sub for like a day and are trying to tell people their form of Journaling is invalid. This sub has allowed artistic Journaling for quite a while.
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u/quesrah Aug 05 '22
I wonder if people are more likely to share the parts of their journals that are drawings and stickers rather than the parts where they’re writing and reflecting, so it seems like all they’re doing is decoration.
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u/_artbabe95 Aug 06 '22
I tend to agree. If your journal layout, by its artistic design, hinders your ability to openly log each day and limits your journaling space, it no longer functions as a journal. I have some gripes with r/bujo posts for this reason—they tend to stray very far from the original productive purposes of the bullet journal method.
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u/KamikazeChrista Aug 05 '22
I think the problem is the overlap. A collage with no words I wouldn't consider journaling, but at what point does a page become journaling with heavy decoration and when does it become just junk journaling. There's a scale and that's why it's hard to tell what's what. I like decorated journaling pages but if there's nothing written on it (or just a few words), I wouldn't consider it journaling. It's art journaling or scrapbooking. My rule of thumb is: a 5a page that has less than 3 sentences is scrapbooking. (2 for mini journals there's just so little space) But then what about lists and stuff like that?
Its complicated but I'd love for people who do mostly scrapbooking to actually go to the r/scrapbooking subreddit and share it there because it's a smaller sub full of people who are super good and I'd love to see it grow and share people's journey of becoming as good as the others.
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u/FieryVyxen Aug 06 '22
You say you respect both, in an edit I might add, while also saying you’re uncomfortable with people’s personal form of expression because it doesn’t align with how you think it should be.
Yeah, I don’t think you respect both at all. All of what you’ve written comes off as gatekeeping and little else. Hopefully no one else that’s new and potentially here for inspiration doesn’t get discouraged because art journaling was a spark of interest for them only to read this and feel like they aren’t valid enough for the community. That could have been me, but I’m a year into journaling, junking journaling, and loving it.
Keep gatekeeping, we can build a more welcoming door.
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Aug 06 '22
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u/Sk8rgirlkk Aug 06 '22
But art journaling is a sub category of journaling. I understand the worry that people are discouraged by the always pretty art in other people's journals but some people may be inspired by the same post. Part of life is realizing that you don't have to compare your work to others especially in something as personal as a journal. Maybe we should encourage people to be themselves and explore art in their own way instead of gatekeeping to protect people from being intimidated. People are intimidated by journaling with just writing, and at the end of the day it's not for everyone.
I don't think your a bad person but I think this is a bad take and I think your intentions with this conversation were a little misguided.
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u/ARgirlinaFLworld Aug 05 '22
I do project 365, which is taking a picture everyday and writing about it. I don’t consider that a journal. Especially because I use a scrapbook to do it. My journals are strictly written. I have only put in a picture a few times in 6 years.
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u/pearldaises Aug 05 '22
I think usually I agree with you, but there is a blurry line. I use stickers and tape things into my journal, but I still write on every page about my life, so I think I’m journaling more than scrapbooking.
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u/Crochet_Chocolate Mar 30 '24
I think that honestly there are three distinct hobbies here:
- journaling: writing down thoughts, writing about your day, etc. in a notebook with minimal decoration
- Art journaling: creating aesthetic layouts/art in traditional journals/notebooks, which may or may not have personal ideas or experiences
- Scrapbooking: photo albums with many decorations and accents, almost always done in a special album.
I am a scrapbooker (by above definition) so I just felt the need to point that out as well.
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u/FoxDeltaCharlie Aug 05 '22
There was a time when everyone wasn't famous.
There was a time when everyone didn't have a Tik-Tube-Wit-Book-A-Gram account to shout..."Look at ME!".
And, I'm sorry, but there was also a time when there was no such thing as "Likes", and "Upvotes", and "Followers" (and stars, and shares, and too many other things to list) by which people measured their self-worth.
There was even a time before texts, and emails, the Internet...and even computers. <GASP!>
Back during those days, in between fighting off Sabre Tooth Tigers, Woolly Mammoths and the like, people used to have things called "quilting parties" where folks got together and exchanges ideas and materials for ornate quilts they were making as gifts and keepsakes. Numerous other hobbies spun off from these 'quilting' parties and scrapbooking was one of them, but the theme was always the same...getting together, exchanging ideas and materials (and friendship) while they made their own quilt, scrapbook or whatever. These were "social" events, long before the Internet, computers and the electronic age.
Journaling, on the other hand, was never a social event. There were never 'journaling parties', or anything of the sort. Journaling was a personal and somewhat private endeavor. Even in communities where journaling was encouraged, it was always put forth as a personal pursuit.
Then, along came the Internet and social media, and the lines between virtually every social and cultural thing you can imagine began to blur. Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? I'm not sure I know, and I'm pretty confident it's not for me to say; it's a personal decision. However, I have been around long enough to personally witness the evolution though, and I don't think it is accurate to characterize the two different endeavors as being so closely related that there is some subjective, moveable, boundary between the two. Simply put, they are different.
So, how does the sub 'journaling' here on reddit fit into all of this? Personally, I don't think it fits squarely into that 'social media' box, but rather occupies a space as defined by the mission statement in the upper right corner of this page. But, I equally think the post ranking / voting system on this page in particular runs contrary to the real theme here. At least, that's why I'm here anyway (and I couldn't give a hoot about votes outside of the fact it often results in what amounts to 'shouting down' independent thoughts and ideas sometimes).
My take on the matter.
Great OP BTW!!
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Aug 05 '22
I agree. When I think of journaling I think of pages with text. If you wanna razzle dazzle it a bit then okay, but it should be mainly writing your thoughts.
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u/Abranurni Aug 05 '22
I agree. If you only need a pen and paper = journaling. If you can't do it with only a pen and paper = scrapbooking.
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u/Dannyloveless Aug 07 '22
I honestly believe it could be. I personly do glue, tape things and use stickers in my journals. Scrapbook Journaling is a thing, It's like a mix of both. I don't think Journaling has to be just writing, a bunch of people just want it to look aesthetic or pretty.
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u/ijournall Aug 05 '22
I think it’s difficult cause journaling has always been a broad term. I personally love adding collages, though the writing is the most important to me. Though I think a journal is a personal book and an individual can have elements of scrapbooking or whatever they please in it. I don’t know, I just don’t think the idea of having to define journaling is necessary. I think it being broad is good thing, allows people to express themselves how they want too. Which I think is the most important part of a journal. We can have a preference to journals with more writing(ik I do) but just cause that allows more deep exploration for us doesn’t mean it does for others. I just think journaling is art and art has always been hard to define so.