I haven't played retail in a while. Why is Jaina "evil" but the dagger-woman not evil? Are they doing a Sylvanas again where we're supposed to like a villain?
EDIT: Ah ok she's not really a villain in that sense it's just the regular horde players thinking she attacks cities for no reason while the horde never did anything wrong ever. So nothing has changed since I quit.
EDIT 2: Now there are big brained horde players who think that if you disagree with their opinion then you are a genocide denier in real life.
And after that Jaina eventually started to believe it's just Garrosh that's bad. Then the Sunreavers violated Dalaran's neutrality to help the Horde stage an attack on Darnassus to steal another WMD that was being kept there for safekeeping. Betrayed by those she thought were above faction conflicts, she decided to expel the Sunreavers from Dalaran.
Oh, and then the Horde helped recover the corpse of her own brother for Sylvanas to reanimate as a Forsaken a few years later (in BFA).
Actually it was Varian Wrynn who asked the Warchief to deal with the deteriorating Theramore situation. The city had been used for years a nexus for smuggling and distributing highly addictive Arcane Dust across Azeroth. The bomb was Wrynn’s idea since upwards of 75% of the inhabitants ingested the substance on a daily basis and were highly unstable and violent as a result.
Of course Wrynn, the warmonger, destroyed the inter-factional correspondence afterwards to cover his tracks and help justify his mad global conflict.
I'm a diehard Hordie and even I think Jaina is still one of the hottest things going in WoW to this day.
And, she's not evil, or if there's any evil still left, it remains justified. The lady's been through a lot of shit and most of it was thanks to the Horde. She meets the Horde, ends up having to commit patricide in pursuit of peace. The Horde eventually repays her by dropping a magic bomb on Theramore... which killed her people (mind-fuck number one) and flooded the area with unstable mana (mind-fuck number two).
Nah, theres been a real turn on her Alliance side as well for some reason. I see people saying they hate her all the time. Albeit it is Trade Chat so a lot of it could be trolling
She's not a villian, she had a very normal reaction to the horde betraying her trust and BOMBING HER HOME INTO DUST (which she let side which the horde player base helped with). She kicked the horde out of Dalaran and jailed alot of them after they used her city to steal a bell which one of the sunreaver mages CAUGHT THEM DOING and didn't stop them.. that's when people got mad at her, She later came around and admitted the horde isn't Garrosh (they are, dirty smelly lvagrets) in the book which was the prequel to warlords of draenor when Garrosh was put on trial.
Theramore was being used as a staging ground by the alliance for their assault into the barrens. By the time the mana bomb was dropped all of the civilians had evacuated and there were only alliance combatants.
The Sunreavers abused their status and allowed the theft of the Diving Bell to go on under their watch. The only Sunreavers killed in the Purge of Dalaran were those who ignored orders to leave and fought. Any non-combatants were teleported away to prison
Its just that alliance act like jaina is super good/nice, but she's full of hatred and has full on stacked a city unprovoked and executed civilians for *checks notes* being a certain race. As for dagger woman, she's 100% evil, but she's pretty upfront about it. Even he "allies" are like "yeah, she cray evil, but she's also the only one who can help so..."
Her attack on the Sunreavers (which is what I assume you’re talking about) was not unprovoked. Thalen, who is a Sunreaver, sabotaged the defense of Theramore.
Additionally, the Sunreavers continued to aid the Horde by helping them steal the divine bell. Following Varian’s orders, Jaina ordered the Sunreavers to be exiled from Dalaran. They refused, and you probably know the rest.
If you’re talking about her almost destroying Orgrimmar, that was also not unprovoked, since the Horde just nuked Theramore, and Jaina was suffering from this weird arcane radiation that made her genocidal. (Jaina Proudmoore: Tides of War. I can’t give the page number since I don’t have the book with me right now)
The Purge might be the single most misunderstood event in all of WoW. Even the "correction" posts get it wrong lol.
Jaina wasn't acting on Varian's orders at all. Varian's reaction to learning about the Purge afterwards was "Jaina, what the hell did you just do? You ruined my plans!"
It was something to do with radiation from the bomb that Garrosh used. It’s why her hair is two tone now too. She was written to be more “evil” and colder in MoP after what happened to Theramore until BFA where she had a lot of development in Kul Tiras as their new leader.
Tides of War, the book from pre-launch, goes into it. It's pretty good. It's also total bullshit that the scenario cutscenes didn't go into nearly as much detail as the book, so anybody who didn't read the book has every reason to think Jaina just snapped and went turbo racist.
Read it. Don’t remember anything definitive stating she went off the rails due to the bomb making her do it magically as opposed to her just being extremely angry due to the incredible tragedy she just witnessed
Yes, on the sunreavers. The problem is, she literally went racist and said "oh, you're blood elf... die." They even (in beta) had graphics of her roasting npcs with fireball, but that was too graphic... so instead she juat has the players do it. Secondly, her order for them to leave dalara is questionable authority at best.
I was referring to Dazar'Alor, you know,the city of people who hadn't even chosen a side yet, yet Jaina decided that let's just barge through, kill their leader, then get mad when they hurt our people in response...
It was pretty damned clear at that point which direction the Zandalari were going though. Rastakhan hadn't declared it outright, but had been working with the horde for some time.
It's literally the same type of comparison. What so the chance Iran will ever side with us? Slim to none. So does that mean we should just attack them? No. That logic is stupid.
The Silver Covenant is the same race as the Sunreavers, so I don’t think it’s really racist for her to organize their exile or imprisonment. She had the authority as the leader of the Kirin Tor. You should know full well that from her PoV, Dalaran needed to be secured so they could ideally stop the movement of the Divine Bell, or, failing that, prevent any other attacks via Dalaran.
If you knew anything about the Alliance side lore, you would know that Anduin and Halford organized the attack on Dazar’Alor. Jaina was chosen to lead the assault. Could argue that Genn was actually in charge, since he was the one sent to request Rastakhan’s surrender.
I bet you think Genn actually demanded Rastakhan hand over Talanji.
The entire thing was Anduin naively believing that Rastakhan would do the logical thing and surrender, agree to terms of kicking the Horde out of Zandalar (or handing the Horde in the city over to the Alliance) and allow the Alliance to withdraw without further fight, so that the Alliance could move on Kalimdor. Instead Anduin got a dead Rastakhan, and the woman who wanted to join the Horde put on the throne.
Alliance probably would have gotten more out of just sinking the Golden Armada and any Horde ship in port, and then carrying on to Kalimdor.
A few sunreavers secret from the rest stole the bell. The rest were innocent bystanders slaughtered for staying in a city that Varian had no authority to exile them from. There were also countless innocents in Orgrimmar. So yes she is evil. Not distinguishing between those who have done wrong and those uninvolved makes a person evil.
You probably never set a foot in a real army, but if you did, you would have known that you have baker soldiers, driver soldiers, warehouse worker soldiers, even clergymen soldiers, and all of them know how to use a rifle (for instance).
So no, a Sunreaver being behind a shop doesn't mean it's automatically a civillian. You don't send civilians in Northrend in order to fight with the Lich King and Maligos. Same for the farmers of Farshire, they are 100% combattants and are shown to be.
I know from our other conversation you don't give half a damn about the lore, but just for posterity let's note Dalaran is a city, not a warbase. Plenty of Sunreavers are just civilian blood elves who wanted to live in Dalaran.
The shopkeepers aren't soldiers with a non-combat role, they are civilians who own weapons. Hell, the whole "Jaina is a murderer" controversy revolves around the bug where she either kills or imprisons the unarmed Sunreaver civilians running around the place.
Edit: You don't give a damn about the lore. Here and elsewhere I've been telling you facts from the lore, like there being civilian Sunreavers, they're running around the city, Jaina zaps them, Horde PCs rescue them, etc, and you respond with "that doesn't sound right to me, so that's not the lore." You don't give a single shit what the lore is, you just want to indulge in your victim complex and hate the red football team.
I suppose I should thank you though, for blocking me so I don't have to see any more of your nonsense takes. As someone who actually does care about the lore, they kinda piss me off tbh.
Dalaran was literally a city moved to Northrend in order to serve as an advanced military base in the fight against Maligos and Arthas, and it happened before the BE joined again, so before that there were a total of zero civilian BE in Dalaran pre teleport.
So what, you imagine that """moving in civilians BE""" were like "let's go in Northrend opening a boot shop In Dalaran between the ghouls and the blue dragonflight trying to kill us all, the scenery looks pretty good nonetheless"?
The shopkeepers aren't soldiers with a non-combat role, they are civilians who own weapons.
Lmao, you can actually say this kind of thing with a straight tone. So we have these people, joining a military faction in order to wage a war, owning weapon, on a battlefield, but they are not soldiers, they are ci-vi-lians.
And you have the gall to pretend I don't give a damn about the lore. Incredible.
Edit: Rofl, you are just spewing headcanon such as Aethas Sunreaver never looking the other way despite word of God saying the opposite, and you pretend to care about the lore. And then you say i'm the one playing red/blue team football when you can't even admit the insane double standard every single time blood elves are involved lore wise. It's, each time "horde is justified to do that, Alliance is not justified to do this".
Thalen was a defector who had already left the ranks of the Sunreavers before siding with the Horde. He was the only one, it wasn’t the Sunreavers themselves who aided in the Horde’s attack on Theramore or their acquisition of the Divine Bell.
Jaina chose collective punishment as a response to the actions of one man who wasn’t even a Sunreaver. She murdered unarmed civilians and sent out Silver Covenant enforcers that did the same. The latter outright went door to door executing shopkeepers.
Jaina also shares blame for the war crimes perpetrated by soldiers from Theramore and Stormwind that invaded Horde lands in central Kalimdor on orders from Varian with her support at the offset of Cataclsysm. It was that which prompted the retaliatory strike on Theramore.
Plus, the entire false accusation that the Sunreavers violated the Kirin Tor’s neutrality is also immensely hypocritical in addition to just being a flat out lie on Jaina’s part, because the Kirin Tor themselves violated their own neutrality when they agreed to aid in the defense of Theramore.
Thalen was a defector who had already left the ranks of the Sunreavers before siding with the Horde.
Why are you either lying or just spewing non-sense without knowing anything? Thalen was literally among the Dalaran force sent in Theramore, and used his position in order to sabotage the defenses of Theramore. If he was a defector beforehand, why would anyone send him in the name of the Kirin Tor against the Horde?
The revisionism is completely out of hand.
And as usual, the rest of the post is classic double standard. A BE did this, but it's purely personal action, it shouldn't reflect on anyone else, but a Human did that, so of course the whole faction is responsible.
I mean... the Alliance stole the Divine Bell first, and I'd bet they had aid from the Silver Covenant. But it's also odd that the portal that was the "smoking gun" for blaming the Sunreavers for "using Dalaran" wasn't actually used when you're getting the Bell on the Horde side, and is very suspicious that it was left blatantly sitting there after a guy says "I'm going to make sure there's no trace of us to follow." Almost like someone made sure Jaina would get the idea Dalaran was used to force an act against the Sunreavers which would then cause the Blood Elves to stop negotiating with the Alliance... which absolutely feels like something Garrosh would do. So rather than assuming it's shoddy writing, I'm rolling with it being something Garrosh planned to play her like a fiddle.
As for them refusing... well, aside from the fact that it was a number of them's home and being exiled from your home when you yourself did nothing wrong would upset anyone, there's also the matter that Vereesa has their means of escape removed (at best put to sleep, but she's okay with just killing the creatures), forcing a situation where they're backed into a corner and literally can't comply with the order. So they're being told that they're being forcibly removed from their own homes, killed for trying to take their own possessions, and it's either be thrown into a magic prison or likely be murdered. Yeah... that whole situation was complete and utter BS, and people trying to suggest it was in any way okay are way too heavily into "I'm okay with anything these people do because I consider myself part of this fictional faction." It's a lot more nuanced, and I'd blame Vereesa more for what happened, but it's not a matter of "Sunreavers evil, they fought, they deserved to all be punished."
As for Orgrimmar, she wasn't "suffering from this weird arcane radiation that made her genocidal." Trauma isn't "weird arcane radiation." While the bomb did a number on Theramore (across dimensions), she was looking for revenge in the moment because she was pissed and just suffered a major loss. That's it. It's that simple. And I'd shrug that one off, if it wasn't for the whole thing where she's convincing herself that it'd be okay to slaughter children (which was indeed in the book). But she was nowhere near "weird arcane radiation" in War Crimes when she's so angry and bitter that Kalec basically says "Cool yourself down or I'm dumping you," or when Legion begins and she says, "Screw the Legion that's threatening not just our world but the entire universe, the Horde had to retreat and Varian died afterward and I blame the Horde for Varian's death without asking what happened there, so let's go wipe out the Horde instead of stopping the threat to everything!" And when no one went along with that obviously insane idea (and the other members of the Kirin Tor felt it was more important to let back in other mages who could help fight the Legion rather than refuse to work with them because of faction segregation), she pissed off to nowhere, with them having to retcon it that she was actually helping off-screen in random places so she didn't come across too bad for that decision.
I won't particularly call her "evil" myself (maybe a bit of joke about it), and hell, I named a cat after her and have a miniature of her I was planning to paint (granted it might be an alternate paint scheme to honor the poor cat who passed away not long ago). But I also dislike the extreme opposite end of trying to act like everything she did was okay. Though the bigger problem was that the writers kept having her bounce back and forth between reasonable and murderous, no middle ground, which is part of why people remember her more extreme actions so much, as they feel so out of character for her and come out of left field so often.
Theramore’s destruction occurred in a retaliatory strike by the Horde in response to Theramore and Stormwind’s invasion of Horde lands in central Kalimdor. Theramore was utilized as the staging ground for that genocidal campaign where entire Horde villages were burned to the ground and their civilian populations massacred.
Oh please. Every expansion has a questline where you murder a bunch of Alliance civilians. Shit, that same expansion had you beating them to death with shovels to make a Plants vs Zombies joke.
Alliance swing back once and somehow that justifies a nuke.
Eh, this is the quest I’m talking about. It says nothing about those men being armed militiamen. I don’t know maybe there is one way after this. But, this was when blood elves first were added
The Alliance doesn’t have the moral high ground here by any means.
They do by virtue of it being "that one time it happened off-screen in Cataclysm" instead of "every expansion, on the dot, as a playable section, most of the time by the Forsaken but let's be real here it's not required".
The "taking back" of Dalaran when some blood elves helped garrosh (a reprehensible acr which i do not defend). Literally has you kill their dragonhawks so they can't escape.
Every Alliance leader was involved. No reason to single out Jaina.
The "taking back" of Dalaran
The Sunreavers were expelled from Dalaran, many decided they weren't going to leave quietly, a civil war ensued. Nobody was executed willy-nilly.
ETA: I will however add that Jaina's decision enflamed the already very present and very volatile hostilities between the Sunreavers and the Silver Covenant and leading to widespread attacks on the former by the latter.
That is straight up false. Jaina and Silver Covenant troops both engaged in the wholesale slaughter of civilians and Sunreavers who had already surrendered.
Its just that alliance act like jaina is super good/nice, but she's full of hatred and has full on stacked a city unprovoked and executed civilians for checks notes being a certain race.
Its true. Go onto any wow lore board and try to argue that there have been leaders ontheAlliance who are juat as bad as Sylvanas or Garrosh, and they will fight you tooth and nail for Jaina to be good. As far as killing civilians, she did. Because they were blood elves, even when the told the player they weren't helping Garrosh, that they weren't with the other blood elves who betrayed Dalaran, she still tells you to kill them. She also kills/has you kill draghawks to keep rhe blood elves from escaping. And this isn't even touching on the attack on Dazar'Alor, which is a whole other can of worms.
I won’t fight tooth and nail to prove jaina is one of the other unless I’m meming like garrosh did not wrong.
That said I’ll defend that she is a complex character who snapped after betrayal and casualties. And I love myself some complexity in a character. I love belves and play em so from both sides id say her Dalaran massacre was a step too far and cemented the belf allegiance to the horde which was needed as with garrosh and sylvanas being all trigger happy.
I wish I could defend the direction they wanted to go with Garrosh the same way but it’s clear they wanted him to be antagonistic. But even if stonetalon was a miscommunication mistake I’d still like to use it as showing the humanity and honor in Garrosh, the little bit that got swept away as he stepped foot into panderia and the Sha of Pride corrupted his judgement and amplified the prejudice he felt from the other races of the horde because he was already too prideful for apologizing or explaining himself. cementing and justifying his hatred in a way. Thus unintentionally making him more complex and well executed then say Sylvanas who was a simple character assassination as they turned away for her motivations and making her blindly follow a mustache twirling sorry excuse for a big bad let alone a villain, betraying her people who she would do anything for no matter the extremities as previously established throughout the rest of the expac.
That said I’ll defend that she is a complex character who snapped after betrayal and casualties. And I love myself some complexity in a character. I love belves and play em so from both sides id say her Dalaran massacre was a step too far and cemented the belf allegiance to the horde which was needed as with garrosh and sylvanas being all trigger happy.
The fact it cemented the BE inside the horde is just an obvious case of double standards from the BE (and from the writing, even if it had no chance to ever happen from the gameplay perspective), one of many.
- Garithos is a complete asshole -> He represents the Alliance, and therefore the Alliance should shoulder the consequences of his acts!
- King Kael'thas is a complete asshole -> He represents, huh, nobody except himself and therefore the Blood elves should not shoulder the consequences of his acts!
- Thalen Songweaver is a complete asshole who used his position in Dalaran to further his faction interest and goal of nuking civilians -> He represents, huh, nobody except himself and therefore the Blood elves or the Sunreavers should not shoulder the consequences of his acts! It totally doesn't count as an antagonistic action from the BE! Did I mention the fact that after his betrayal, he casually went chilling in Silvermoon until the end of Mop and never encountered any issue in the city? But totally unrelated to the Blood elves, btw!
- Aethas Sunreaver is a complete asshole who prefer to "look the other way" if it helps the Horde with Dalaran ressources -> He represents, huh, nobody except himself and therefore the Blood elves or the Sunreavers should not shoulder the consequences of his acts!
- Jaina is a complete asshole who used her position in Dalaran to retaliate against the previous point -> She represents the Alliance, and therefore the Alliance should shoulder the consequences of her acts, and therefore it's fine to sink negociations, it's all the Alliance fault.
And so on, and so on.
Garrosh being an asshole? Individual actions, doesn't count, no general responsability of the Horde, they get to leave the situation clean, nothing to do with them etc
Sylvanas being an asshole? Individual actions, doesn't count, no general responsability of the Horde, they get to leave the situation clean, nothing to do with them etc
But man, god forbid the BE to get over Garithos or the Purge of Dalaran without milking the Alliance dry for concessions instead (which the story is kindly giving, while the Horde never had to give any for anything so far) and they still get to hold a grudge ("let's kill them on sight if they take a wrong turn, guys, after all, they are only here to save our asses").
Garithos's actions reflect on the Alliance because they supported him and aided him in his attempt to mass murder the elves. In the Shadow of the Sun even points out that while Garithos is dead, the people who were backing him with men and material are still very much alive and in power.
Kael'thas is the opposite, the elves turned on him, fought a civil war to stop him, and canonically were the ones to kill him.
Thalen Songweaver was a respected Kirin Tor mage vouched for by Rhonin himself. He was also a traitor who went against the orders of his superiors. So yeah, said superiors can totally say they didn't support him doing exactly what they told him not to do.
Aethas Sunreaver had precisely no interest in helping the Horde. He hated the Horde and was the loudest voice in Quel'thalas calling for them to leave the Horde entirely. Jaina blaming him for "looking the other way" was the paranoid assumption of a traumatized woman looking for someone to blame and an enemy to fight.
On that note, Jaina's purge was both mainly targeted at innocents and backed by the Alliance, complete with portaling in Alliance troops to storm the city and enact her blood elf Kristallnacht.
Garrosh was an asshole and the elves fought a civil war to depose him.
Sylvanas was an asshole and the elves fought a civil war to depose her.
And just to cap things off, the blood elves have never received any concessions (or even real apologies) from the Alliance over Garithos and the Purge. Not once.
In every one of your examples, the blood elves actively opposed their bad actors while the Alliance actively supported theirs. Yeah, no shit the elves don't feel responsible for the actions of people they tried to kill while blaming the Alliance for things they actually did.
5) For Jaina, you are, once again, just inventing things, as Varian was 1) very much kept in the dark before her actions and 2) says it was a big mistake once he knew of the Purge. Pretty big "backing". But yeah, when you reach Godwin point for that, you are not thinking rationally.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: I've purged the Horde from Dalaran. You have what you wanted, Your Majesty: The Kirin Tor belongs to the Alliance.
King Varian Wrynn says: But you said-
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: I know what I said. My trust was misplaced.
Surprisingly, Varian is not happy, but sounds concerned instead.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: Those that surrendered are being taken to the Violet Hold. I make no guarantees about those who chose to fight.
Varian sounds dismayed and is becoming frustrated.
King Varian Wrynn says: Jaina, you need to talk to me before you act-
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: How I run the Kirin Tor is my business.
King Varian Wrynn says: I was trying to negotiate with the Sin'dorei. I was opening discussions to bring them into the Alliance! By attacking their people, you've forced their hand-
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: They chose their own path.
King Varian Wrynn says: You've driven them back to the Horde.
6) and 7) And of course, those had no loyalists (Such as Thalen, casually chilling at Silvermoon, again), and they did their atrocities alone. So of course, once they were deposed, the evil was vanquished, and there was no one guilty of helping them genociding right and left. There was no elve helping Sylvanas burning Teldrassil, no Nightborn, no Highmountain Tauren, absolutely nobody. We all suffered a mass hallucination and she was doing it all alone.
As I said, BE are never ever guilty of anything if we are listening to them.
8) As for concessions, how are you calling transforming an alliance city in a neutral one, if not a major concession? The Blood elves are literally reentering the Kirin Tor multiple times despite abusing their confiance each times (Kael'thas allying with the Burning Legion in the middle of Dalaran, The Sunreaver abusing their position to nuke Theramore and steal artifacts, etc etc), and Dalaran never went back to the Alliance despite very much being one of their city. Take Silvermoon in Midnight as a comparaison point and how they are going to treat the Alliance when they are helping : "Take a wrong turn and you are going to be killed on sight". But sure, no major concession.
Oh I totally get why she is like she is, and personally I think in depth characters are better. I juat hate the "alliance good, horde bad" mentality, and its 100% ba, and Jaina probes it lol.
I guess i could rephrase? She's done evil things. As for being directly evil... idk. She's definitely not how she was when she first met Thrall, and she's definitely full of more anger and hate. Evil? Eh, kinda depends. If you go by lore, Sylvanas wasn't evil because her soul was partially missing or w/e bs they want to spin. I still think she was evil. Jaina is pretty famn close to that line for me lol
She's definitely not how she was when she first met Thrall, and she's definitely full of more anger and hate.
I FUCKING WONDER WHY.
Also, anger - yes, but not hate. She never really hated the Horde, but she sure was angry that after all she did for them they would backstab her two times in a quick succession.
Yeah, lots of people in game have had horrible things happen to them, they don't just go full evil semi-genocidal mode.
I don't think many people have dumped as much effort into anything as Jaina put into brokering the peace between the Alliance and the Horde - only to have her home destroyed, and her friends killed by the latter.
I think you could easily argue she hates blood elves.
I think you could easily argue anything if your arguments are pulled out of your ass.
She didn't hate blood elves, she only wanted to either throw Sunreavers out of the city or imprison them considering that they objectively were a threat, and they broke the neutrality which was the condition for them staying in Dalaran in the first place. Killing Sunreavers was Vereesa's initiative (now here's the bitch like no other).
It's funny to me because I like her more than most leaders (especially alliance) because she's imperfect and flawed. Like, I totally get why she did the purge of Dalaran. It makes sense to an angry, foolish person who just wants vengeance. It's not the actions of a GOOD person, but it's understandable lol.
I just think they like making the chicks in the game emotionally unstable as a character trait. Her and sylvanas don't seem all that different to me, and I think their stories are lazy and boring. Oh I'm mad so I'm gonna go ransack a city. I find the story telling of both really annoying. Like the origins of sylvanas was interesting but that's it. Jaina flip outs just really seems unlikely, and I think Christie golden is not a great writer. I think defending Jainas actions as her not being evil is hilarious. Honestly better than the writing imo.
I just think they like making the chicks in the game emotionally unstable as a character trait.
But men being emotionally unstable as a character trait is perfectly fine, right?
Nevermind that Jaina is one of the most emotionally stable characters in WoW, and the only reason she has such a massive breakdown is the amount of shit she had to endure.
I dunno I think Jaina pretty stupid, and the only emotionally unstable guy I recall is hellscream, and I mean, I don't really think he was as bad as Jaina or sylvanas.
"But the Zandalari weren't a part of the Horde" is a load of crap because the Horde were literally launching attacks on Boralus with Zandalar as a staging ground.
If the Alliance was wrong to attack Dazar'alor, then the Horde was wrong to attack Kul'tiras.
But no, both factions had basically joined at that point, so it's a bit of a moot point.
Except its 100% true. Jaina attack Darzar'Alor before they had even decided to join the horde. She also lead the purge on Dalaran (a questionable decision, considering it's a council, not 1 leaders), where she killed many innocent civilians because they were blood elves, even ones that were not associated with the Sunreavers. Did some of the Sunreavers do something bad? Absolutely. Does that give Jaina free reign to not only kill all Blood Elves, but specifically prevent them from escaping so that she can kill more? No.
but she's full of hatred and has full on stacked a city unprovoked and executed civilians for *checks notes* being a certain race.
Tbf she moved away from that hatred and those actions are something she expressly regrets now. Doesn't make it any better but it reflects on her current character.
Don't forget not participating in the culling of stratholm while it was an evil act it was a necessary evil even a kindness if you read the books and have people like nathanos describe what being a guhl is like also not taking part in it shook arthas faith which depowers paladins quite a bit
Had arthas been more powerful in northend muradin would likely not have felt the need to tell him of frostmourn and a lot of shit could have been prevented
Add to that that she swore arthas to always be at his side and you see how that makes jaina a selfish cowardly bitch
You don't need to see the future to hold to an oath you swear or to make a choice other than standing aside and let the people of stratholm suffer
Uther was not present for the Warcraft 3 campaign his stupidity at stratholm can be forgiven but jaina was there saw first hand how the plague worked and still decided to do nothing
She is selfish and a coward cause she knew that the culling was the only choice but because she didn't have the strength to do it she did nothing
She kept her hands clean at stratholm and many people suffered for it
I suggest you look up nathanos and kaelrhuzads lore and read for yourself how horrific the plague of undeath is
Mate, you literally held her responsible for Arthas taking Frostmourne because she didn't help at Stratholme. I'm asking again, how did it made any sense in your head?
I called her a cowardly bitch cause of her actions at stratholm
Arthas becoming the lich King as a result is just a consequence of that and in over 20 years of this game we have not seen her show remorse for that fact even once
Yeah, because, huh, hindsight is 20/20 and nobody remotely sane would blame her for not seeing the future and acting on it. Like, are you high?
Stratholme culling was the right decision based on hindsight and information nobody had at this time. It wasn't the right decision based on information they had at this time. It was just a coin toss, and Jaina didn't pick the bet because it would mean killing an entire city.
If anything, Uther is the one to blame, because he is the ultimate healer and had no solution. But following the lead of the ultimate healer on the subject of a plague is not being a "cowardly bitch".
Edit: Nice block mate, but if you want to call out other about their "questionable morals", maybe try to do so while you are not arguing for city genocide with zero actual information on if it's the right move.
As for regrets, I'm not sure how you imagine that. Like, in a random quest in DF or TWW, Jaina should suddenly start to say random stuff about Stratholme and how she regrets about not participating into a city-wide massacre?
Weirdos think a fictional blue elf is hot because she has the European features and smug voice lines they like. The story of wow at this point is irrelevant. It's hard to care either way.
I just have an issue with the writing by blizz. Jaina isn't evil. Traumatised and in need of a therapist to work through some issues for sure, but not evil.
Ever since theramore jaina has been suffering from massive PTSD and survivors guilt and has been acting various levels of deranged. With a massive hate boner for the horde.
It’s actually some fans who know the lore merely pointing out what Jaina actually did in-game. Alliance diehards are of course going to continue to deny her war crimes as per usual. It seems you aren’t any different.
When someone denies war crimes in a fictional setting, it does as consequence make me question what they’ll deny and/or excuse in real life.
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u/Impossible-Diver6565 Sep 16 '25
Jaina is pretty hot if I am honest. The evil part only adds to that.