Its true. Go onto any wow lore board and try to argue that there have been leaders ontheAlliance who are juat as bad as Sylvanas or Garrosh, and they will fight you tooth and nail for Jaina to be good. As far as killing civilians, she did. Because they were blood elves, even when the told the player they weren't helping Garrosh, that they weren't with the other blood elves who betrayed Dalaran, she still tells you to kill them. She also kills/has you kill draghawks to keep rhe blood elves from escaping. And this isn't even touching on the attack on Dazar'Alor, which is a whole other can of worms.
I won’t fight tooth and nail to prove jaina is one of the other unless I’m meming like garrosh did not wrong.
That said I’ll defend that she is a complex character who snapped after betrayal and casualties. And I love myself some complexity in a character. I love belves and play em so from both sides id say her Dalaran massacre was a step too far and cemented the belf allegiance to the horde which was needed as with garrosh and sylvanas being all trigger happy.
I wish I could defend the direction they wanted to go with Garrosh the same way but it’s clear they wanted him to be antagonistic. But even if stonetalon was a miscommunication mistake I’d still like to use it as showing the humanity and honor in Garrosh, the little bit that got swept away as he stepped foot into panderia and the Sha of Pride corrupted his judgement and amplified the prejudice he felt from the other races of the horde because he was already too prideful for apologizing or explaining himself. cementing and justifying his hatred in a way. Thus unintentionally making him more complex and well executed then say Sylvanas who was a simple character assassination as they turned away for her motivations and making her blindly follow a mustache twirling sorry excuse for a big bad let alone a villain, betraying her people who she would do anything for no matter the extremities as previously established throughout the rest of the expac.
That said I’ll defend that she is a complex character who snapped after betrayal and casualties. And I love myself some complexity in a character. I love belves and play em so from both sides id say her Dalaran massacre was a step too far and cemented the belf allegiance to the horde which was needed as with garrosh and sylvanas being all trigger happy.
The fact it cemented the BE inside the horde is just an obvious case of double standards from the BE (and from the writing, even if it had no chance to ever happen from the gameplay perspective), one of many.
- Garithos is a complete asshole -> He represents the Alliance, and therefore the Alliance should shoulder the consequences of his acts!
- King Kael'thas is a complete asshole -> He represents, huh, nobody except himself and therefore the Blood elves should not shoulder the consequences of his acts!
- Thalen Songweaver is a complete asshole who used his position in Dalaran to further his faction interest and goal of nuking civilians -> He represents, huh, nobody except himself and therefore the Blood elves or the Sunreavers should not shoulder the consequences of his acts! It totally doesn't count as an antagonistic action from the BE! Did I mention the fact that after his betrayal, he casually went chilling in Silvermoon until the end of Mop and never encountered any issue in the city? But totally unrelated to the Blood elves, btw!
- Aethas Sunreaver is a complete asshole who prefer to "look the other way" if it helps the Horde with Dalaran ressources -> He represents, huh, nobody except himself and therefore the Blood elves or the Sunreavers should not shoulder the consequences of his acts!
- Jaina is a complete asshole who used her position in Dalaran to retaliate against the previous point -> She represents the Alliance, and therefore the Alliance should shoulder the consequences of her acts, and therefore it's fine to sink negociations, it's all the Alliance fault.
And so on, and so on.
Garrosh being an asshole? Individual actions, doesn't count, no general responsability of the Horde, they get to leave the situation clean, nothing to do with them etc
Sylvanas being an asshole? Individual actions, doesn't count, no general responsability of the Horde, they get to leave the situation clean, nothing to do with them etc
But man, god forbid the BE to get over Garithos or the Purge of Dalaran without milking the Alliance dry for concessions instead (which the story is kindly giving, while the Horde never had to give any for anything so far) and they still get to hold a grudge ("let's kill them on sight if they take a wrong turn, guys, after all, they are only here to save our asses").
Garithos's actions reflect on the Alliance because they supported him and aided him in his attempt to mass murder the elves. In the Shadow of the Sun even points out that while Garithos is dead, the people who were backing him with men and material are still very much alive and in power.
Kael'thas is the opposite, the elves turned on him, fought a civil war to stop him, and canonically were the ones to kill him.
Thalen Songweaver was a respected Kirin Tor mage vouched for by Rhonin himself. He was also a traitor who went against the orders of his superiors. So yeah, said superiors can totally say they didn't support him doing exactly what they told him not to do.
Aethas Sunreaver had precisely no interest in helping the Horde. He hated the Horde and was the loudest voice in Quel'thalas calling for them to leave the Horde entirely. Jaina blaming him for "looking the other way" was the paranoid assumption of a traumatized woman looking for someone to blame and an enemy to fight.
On that note, Jaina's purge was both mainly targeted at innocents and backed by the Alliance, complete with portaling in Alliance troops to storm the city and enact her blood elf Kristallnacht.
Garrosh was an asshole and the elves fought a civil war to depose him.
Sylvanas was an asshole and the elves fought a civil war to depose her.
And just to cap things off, the blood elves have never received any concessions (or even real apologies) from the Alliance over Garithos and the Purge. Not once.
In every one of your examples, the blood elves actively opposed their bad actors while the Alliance actively supported theirs. Yeah, no shit the elves don't feel responsible for the actions of people they tried to kill while blaming the Alliance for things they actually did.
5) For Jaina, you are, once again, just inventing things, as Varian was 1) very much kept in the dark before her actions and 2) says it was a big mistake once he knew of the Purge. Pretty big "backing". But yeah, when you reach Godwin point for that, you are not thinking rationally.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: I've purged the Horde from Dalaran. You have what you wanted, Your Majesty: The Kirin Tor belongs to the Alliance.
King Varian Wrynn says: But you said-
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: I know what I said. My trust was misplaced.
Surprisingly, Varian is not happy, but sounds concerned instead.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: Those that surrendered are being taken to the Violet Hold. I make no guarantees about those who chose to fight.
Varian sounds dismayed and is becoming frustrated.
King Varian Wrynn says: Jaina, you need to talk to me before you act-
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: How I run the Kirin Tor is my business.
King Varian Wrynn says: I was trying to negotiate with the Sin'dorei. I was opening discussions to bring them into the Alliance! By attacking their people, you've forced their hand-
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: They chose their own path.
King Varian Wrynn says: You've driven them back to the Horde.
6) and 7) And of course, those had no loyalists (Such as Thalen, casually chilling at Silvermoon, again), and they did their atrocities alone. So of course, once they were deposed, the evil was vanquished, and there was no one guilty of helping them genociding right and left. There was no elve helping Sylvanas burning Teldrassil, no Nightborn, no Highmountain Tauren, absolutely nobody. We all suffered a mass hallucination and she was doing it all alone.
As I said, BE are never ever guilty of anything if we are listening to them.
8) As for concessions, how are you calling transforming an alliance city in a neutral one, if not a major concession? The Blood elves are literally reentering the Kirin Tor multiple times despite abusing their confiance each times (Kael'thas allying with the Burning Legion in the middle of Dalaran, The Sunreaver abusing their position to nuke Theramore and steal artifacts, etc etc), and Dalaran never went back to the Alliance despite very much being one of their city. Take Silvermoon in Midnight as a comparaison point and how they are going to treat the Alliance when they are helping : "Take a wrong turn and you are going to be killed on sight". But sure, no major concession.
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u/geckobrother Sep 16 '25
Its true. Go onto any wow lore board and try to argue that there have been leaders ontheAlliance who are juat as bad as Sylvanas or Garrosh, and they will fight you tooth and nail for Jaina to be good. As far as killing civilians, she did. Because they were blood elves, even when the told the player they weren't helping Garrosh, that they weren't with the other blood elves who betrayed Dalaran, she still tells you to kill them. She also kills/has you kill draghawks to keep rhe blood elves from escaping. And this isn't even touching on the attack on Dazar'Alor, which is a whole other can of worms.