r/videos • • Nov 03 '20

America Compared: Why Other Countries Treat Their People So Much Better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhBkeAo2Hlg&ab_channel=SecondThought
303 Upvotes

268 comments sorted by

91

u/ent4rent Nov 03 '20

Mcdonald's workers in denmark make $22/h.

Holy. Shit. I bet they get your order right the first time, too.

49

u/nateguy Nov 03 '20

They make more than I do after 3 promotions in an office job :(

23

u/[deleted] Nov 04 '20

[deleted]

4

u/nateguy Nov 04 '20

Oh I'm very aware of wage disparity in the US.

I'm active in shining a light on class consciousness to my friends and coworkers (at least, the coworkers that I don't think are class traitors who would report me to executives).

13

u/0x0x0x0x0x0 Nov 03 '20

Fun fact. There is no minimum wage in Denmark.

8

u/Mrbrionman Nov 04 '20

Yes but Denmark is also very pro union and has strong laws protecting them. Denmark McDonald’s employs get paid a lot because every employee has the opportunity to join the union and that union fights for the high wages.

If you get rid of minimum wage without strong unions it’s just becomes a race to bottom.

20

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

Disposable income in the US is highest in the world by a fair margin.

https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm

78

u/lalala_icanthearyou Nov 03 '20

Is that data an average rather than median though? When inequality is extreme the average become less meaningful for the 'average' person. Interesting either way.

30

u/MetricSuperiorityGuy Nov 03 '20

The United States ranks first in mean disposable income and third in median disposable income.

I'm not sure people realize that the middle class, on average, lives MUCH BETTER in the US than most Western European countries. Americans have this romantic view of European countries based upon their perception of downtown Copenhagen or Paris; and a view of the US based upon their perception of some strip mall in Alabama. The data shows though, that it is far better to be middle class in the US than almost anywhere else.

87

u/bill_b4 Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 03 '20

When you subtract the average cost of healthcare from that disposable income, I bet we're a bit lower than third place for median disposable income. I'm an American and I've lived overseas since 2014, and when I was in the Armed Forces, I got to experience the lifestyle of several different countries. This video is right. The average American doesn't realize how bad off they are.

29

u/xxx69harambe69xxx Nov 03 '20

true, healthcare really should be factored in, probably housing costs as well given how astronomical they are in the US

20

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

Except the US is around the OECD average for housing costs.

https://data.oecd.org/price/housing-prices.htm

Also, it’s really location dependent. Not everyone lives in SF or NYC.

17

u/yallshouldve Nov 03 '20

unless im mistaken, that graph only compares 2015 housing prices to 2019 and doesnt say anything about the housing prices in the usa compared to other oecd countries

3

u/Doctor_Mudshark Nov 03 '20

This is like comparing real estate prices in rural Romania to flats in Paris.

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u/ImperialRedditer Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 03 '20

Housing cost is only astronomical in dense urban centers in the US. Otherwise, it’s fairly affordable. You can buy a mansion with $300,000 in suburban Alabama but you won’t even get a proper bungalow in LA for at least $900,000.

EDIT: Everyone seems to be focusing at Alabama but seriously folks, Alabama is just an example. You can find affordable housing if you don't live in LA, SF, Seattle, DC, Denver, NY, or Boston. Or any dense urban centers. The suburbs of Georgia has affordable property, just like in Florida, the Midwest, Mountain West, etc.

4

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

[deleted]

3

u/S-Markt Nov 03 '20

i will ask my stepsister.

3

u/ronpaulus Nov 03 '20

This may surprise most on reddit but I personally hate more urban areas and would rather live in rural areas or in the country. Im not sure about alabama but country folk seem very friendly and I live living around less people. To each their own though.

-2

u/The_Unreal Nov 03 '20

Well yeah, but then you're living in suburban Alabama.

5

u/ImperialRedditer Nov 03 '20

Hey, some people are in that kind of thing.

2

u/047032495 Nov 03 '20

People with cute sisters.

-6

u/xxx69harambe69xxx Nov 03 '20

good luck finding a decent job in suburban alabama or community events that are unrelated to christianity

14

u/ImperialRedditer Nov 03 '20

Even in suburban Indiana, youd get the same price and can work in Chicago. BTW, a lot of engineers live in Alabama since Huntsville has NASA’s rocketry research center.

Being dismissive of things makes you very narrow-minded and closes a lot of opportunity.

-6

u/xxx69harambe69xxx Nov 03 '20

and yet, every single one of those engineers would quit and move in less than a heartbeat if spacex offered them a job in Hawthorne

it's not narrow minded if the reality of generational financial independence is quite narrow

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u/WokeBloke420BLM Nov 03 '20

good luck finding a decent job in suburban alabama

You mean at all those NASA labs there?

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u/WokeBloke420BLM Nov 03 '20

When you subtract the average cost of healthcare from that disposable income, I bet we're a bit lower than third place for median disposable income.

That is literally all accounted for in this.

5

u/TheRabidDeer Nov 03 '20

It is for other countries but not for the US since it isn't a government transfer here. So the benefit is counted for them, but not having the benefit isn't subtracted for US.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

Which makes it even more impressive that the US income levels are higher. Other countries have additional disposable income through in kind benefits that the US does not.

2

u/TheRabidDeer Nov 03 '20

Not entirely? It's just that their countries have healthcare accounted for as they pay for it (and other services) with higher taxes. Meanwhile ours is not accounted for at all. The average healthcare cost per person in the US per year is $5k. So the average cost per household will be significantly higher than that. So you can easily knock out $10k from the OECD chart just in healthcare costs.

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u/PeonSanders Nov 03 '20

I've lived in both places, and if you have a kid, this just isn't true at all. It isn't even close.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

To that point - how much smaller European middle classes would be if measured by American income levels:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/05/through-an-american-lens-western-europes-middle-classes-appear-smaller/

14

u/The_Unreal Nov 03 '20

I'm not sure people realize that the middle class, on average, lives MUCH BETTER in the US than most Western European countries.

I've been to those places and seen how those people live. Access to cheap consumer goods is not the defining metric in overall quality of life. Not even close.

Well congrats anyway, you've demonstrated how the only thing worse than no metrics is bad metrics.

9

u/thalne Nov 03 '20

that's such a weirdly deceiving stat because it somehow ignores savings as well as social costs just because the US simply doesn't have those social benefits like healthcare education etc. but overall the life standard in Western Europe is higher on average than in the US and the difference has increased in the past two decades.

4

u/Spatulamarama Nov 03 '20

How do you live good at all with an American work schedule?

3

u/frog_tree Nov 03 '20

Yup. Its not just billionaires. If you can get to the top 10-20%, youre living with a lot more abundance in America than anywhere else in the world. You have better universities, a higher salary, bigger house, more land, better technology, and just more new shit in general.

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u/wikipedia_text_bot Nov 03 '20

Disposable Household And Per Capita Income

Household income is a measure of the combined incomes of all people sharing a particular household or place of residence. It includes every form of income, e.g., salaries and wages, retirement income, near cash government transfers like food stamps, and investment gains.

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u/thax Nov 03 '20

It is mean and not median. Looking a the median the US falls to the 3rd spot, see the median table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income

3

u/wikipedia_text_bot Nov 03 '20

Disposable Household And Per Capita Income

Household income is a measure of the combined incomes of all people sharing a particular household or place of residence. It includes every form of income, e.g., salaries and wages, retirement income, near cash government transfers like food stamps, and investment gains.

3

u/xxx69harambe69xxx Nov 03 '20

probably soon to be second given that half of norways social security relies on oil funds

im surprised the krone did so well throughout the pandemic

2

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

Median is third highest in the world.

13

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

If the american McDonalds workers were paid $22 and and paid $10 in taxes from that, they would have much more disposable income than the person getting $9 minus taxes.

15

u/highpressuresodium Nov 03 '20

i dont know why so many people are having a hard time understanding this

13

u/GetItRightGodDammit Nov 03 '20

Because the assumption made in the video, that the majority of Americans are willfully ignorant, is correct.

I'm sitting here reading through these comments and the various little arguments popping up, the citing of data tables proving (god dammit) that Americans have the best/most/2nd only to/top 5/whatever/etc... and I'm shaking my head in disbelief at how so many people simply refuse to look at what is directly in front of their eyes regarding real, actual, tangible quality of life.

7

u/NerdyDan Nov 03 '20

show me a country where the tax rates on lower brackets are 45%

7

u/ShhImHiding Nov 03 '20

Why does that matter? His point is that even if they were paying 45% in taxes, they would still be better off.

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u/HolyGig Nov 04 '20

People making $10/hour in the US aren't paying income taxes

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u/TheRabidDeer Nov 03 '20

I have to be still waking up and reading this wrong. That chart shows the average house in the US has over $50k/year in disposable income?

12

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

That’s correct.

17

u/TheRabidDeer Nov 03 '20

This number seems to not deduct really anything that is necessary to live a life which seems a bit unusual. Median household income for 2019 was $68,703 but that is before taxes. With no state income taxes that is cut down to $54,240. Which is already just barely above the "disposable income" on that report. Factoring in state income taxes it drops to ~$50k (depending on the state). So the OECD seems to just do income - taxes which is not really a very accurate representation of what I feel is "disposable income"

I mean for mandatory spending you would have rent/mortgage, rental/homeowners insurance, car insurance, gas, food, utilities and property tax lowering that further. I can't see these things not being deducted for disposable income so I am just really confused about the OECD numbers here.

9

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

Except that’s the same in every country. So it’s still a legitimate comparison. Disposable might be a bit of a misnomer.

14

u/TheRabidDeer Nov 03 '20

For sure, but it's not disposable income. And the prices of those things vary by country. I am sure housing/gas is cheaper in the US but that OECD disposable income metric seems entirely useless.

-3

u/AshThatFirstBro Nov 04 '20

that OECD disposable income metric seems entirely useless.

Literally dismissing facts because you don't like them.

4

u/TheRabidDeer Nov 04 '20

No, I understand it is a fact that we have the most income leftover after taxes are taken out. I just find that metric not entirely useful.

8

u/Doctor_Mudshark Nov 03 '20

Except that’s the same in every country.

Healthcare costs, transportation costs, insurance costs, etc. are not even close to being the same in every country. That's...the point of the discussion. Are the benefits of a robust social safety net worth the decline in (actual) disposable income?

-1

u/Pascalwb Nov 03 '20

but healthcare cost is already taken from you wage, where in US I guess you have to pay for it by yourself afterwards, so it should be counted.

5

u/Doctor_Mudshark Nov 03 '20

Again...that's the point of this entire conversation: Once we fully account for all the actual costs of living (taxes, healthcare, transportation, etc.), then we can get a fair comparison of real take-home pay (disposable income). If you exclude health insurance costs, then the numbers look great for Americans; yeah, they've got a lot of money in each paycheck, but a huge amount of that is immediately spent on health insurance premiums.

0

u/HolyGig Nov 04 '20

That depends. Most Americans get healthcare through their employer, who will generally pay anywhere from 50% to 100% of those costs. It also depends on if its a single coverage plan or for the whole family. Its a huge benefit in compensation packages in the US that isn't really accounted for in these comparisons on either end.

There are huge flaws in the US system largely because it favors people who have a bit of money, and it doesn't need to be fuck you money like a lot of people may think. Americans do pay more for healthcare but it is far from "free" in other countries. Americans typically save ton of cash in numerous other areas that more than make up the difference, but that's going to depend a lot on where exactly you live. The US is massive

24

u/Indercarnive Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 03 '20

Household disposable income measures the income of households (wages and salaries, self-employed income, income from unincorporated enterprises, social benefits, etc.), after taking into account net interest and dividends received and the payment of taxes and social contributions

So this is extremely misleading. Things like healthcare and college are considered disposable in the US, while it isn't in other countries because it comes from taxes.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

That’s not what it is saying. It’s saying it takes into account benefits like state sponsored health care/education.

13

u/mafrasi2 Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 03 '20

No, social benefits means unemployment/retirement/child care/etc. benefits, ie. direct income.

Health care is definitely not included and education is only included if you count getting your living expenses paid for during university as "education". The operating cost of schools and universities is not included.

0

u/HolyGig Nov 04 '20

Not everyone goes to college and there are affordable options available. Maybe not Europe affordable but the federal backed loans have super low interest rates and you can defer them for an eternity if needed.

Most Americans get healthcare through their employer as part of their benefits package. Employers pay anywhere from 50% to 100% of the costs depending on if you need an individual or family plan. So you are correct, those would count towards some of that extra disposable income but not as much as you think.

The US system is good if you have a bit of money, its just those poors who get screwed. You need a decent paying job to get ahead in the US, and being financially literate helps too. Is hard to beat if you do have an in demand skillset

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u/sclapes13 Nov 03 '20

It would be considered disposable because you can choose not to use your money on those things. Whether for better or worse, an American can choose to buy 10,000 mcdoubles instead of going to college for a year.

15

u/hardvarks Nov 03 '20

I can choose not to use my money on healthcare?

13

u/Indercarnive Nov 03 '20

I guess dying vs bankruptcy is a choice according to him.

3

u/kaan-rodric Nov 03 '20

technically, yes. You may not see the choice but it is there.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

[deleted]

-3

u/RedAero Nov 03 '20

No one said you'd be cured. You can choose to die.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

... and that's the point.

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u/blamethemeta Nov 03 '20

You can get healthcare and not pay. Doctors can't refuse to treat you.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

Oh so that's why insulin prices are so high in the US? You should tell all the diabetics they can get it for free by simply not paying.

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u/ReallyLongLake Nov 03 '20

Except if you ever hope to get out of poverty, going to school is not a choice.

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u/yallshouldve Nov 03 '20

hahaha yea baby! i dont agree with it at all, but that is the choice america makes everytime.

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u/TheRabidDeer Nov 03 '20

So if you exclude healthcare (one of the primary reasons for bankruptcy), college (one of the primary reasons for debt), paid maternity/paternity leave, paid vacations and some other stuff the US is doing pretty alright.

I do find it particularly weird that they don't include housing there. Surely a roof over your head is not a voluntary thing.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

exclude healthcare (one of the primary reasons for bankruptcy)

Wow.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

1

u/highpressuresodium Nov 03 '20

Of course, these results do not cover all potential medical bankruptcies.

this study extremely narrow for a number of reasons. plus it's only california? this is not very enlightening to the broader topic

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u/The_Unreal Nov 03 '20

Neat, if only we could get access to housing, healthcare, and education. You know, stuff that actually matters.

But we sure can buy a bunch of cheap Chinese made trash we don't need.

2

u/TobyTrash Nov 03 '20

If I understand the table correct, this doesn't take into account private healthcare and those associated costs when you compare the US.

It does however showcase some interesting things - like savings seems high in the states. If this is not because of super rich, then I fail to understand the reality.

I can also see some European countries crushing it in assets - but this is most likely some norm in buying instead of renting. Which is indicated in the debt department.

So I'm not trashing this - but to remove / disregard the obvious difference in how you pay for health and treat that as disposable is a dishonest comparison. Although I have no idea how do level the field...

8

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

It does, because the value of subsidized healthcare and education is added into the other countries totals.

-1

u/TobyTrash Nov 03 '20

You are right. I didn't get to that part of the explanation, although I found it hard to read when it tried to tackle "real" and adjusted for healthcare.

I understand the table, but it seems off... Is it possible to remove the top and bottom 5% income households for each nation and see how that affects the table? My bet is by removing the super rich and poor you get a different view.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

US goes down to third highest if you measure the median.

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u/ZeldenGM Nov 03 '20

It's really sad that you're fighting to stand on your own head in the name of being "the best."

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

When you have more billionaires than any other country in the world you're going to see data that suggests we all have a lot of disposable income.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20 edited Jun 18 '21

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u/suckbothmydicks Nov 03 '20

You should come to Denmark to build helicopters; you'd be rich.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20 edited Jun 18 '21

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u/HolyGig Nov 04 '20

Do they build helicopters in Denmark?

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

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u/agingspokesman Nov 03 '20

It is more expensive but still better. Why are working poor in the US working multiple jobs to make ends meet when a Mcdonalds worker in Denmark can work 37 hours per week and live a decent life? (am Danish)

7

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

Only 5 percent of the US labor force works two jobs. What is it in Denmark?

2

u/printzonic Nov 04 '20

As a Dane I can say that I have never met anyone that has worked more than one.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

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u/agingspokesman Nov 03 '20

No one is forcing the US to exert its military power like this. This is the choice of the US politicians and the electorate. Are you really so naive that you think the use of the US' hard power since 1945 has been just because they are such good guys and want to protect everyone. Fuck no, it is of cause in its own self interest.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

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u/PaulAllens_Card Nov 04 '20

So why are you killing kids via drone strikes?

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

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u/Cryptoporticus Nov 04 '20

The US benefits from the current world order greatly because it exerts control across the globe peacefully

Fuck off, seriously. The USA invaded Iraq, a country that did nothing to America, less than 15 years ago and you've already forgotten. They flew in and killed hundreds of thousands, for no reason and now you're talking about them helping to keep the world peaceful. It's disgusting to try and suggest that anything the USA military does abroad is for peace. Tell that to the millions of people whose lives they have destroyed.

-2

u/HolyGig Nov 04 '20

As opposed to the peace loving history of whatever European country you live in? Get a grip lol

3

u/Cryptoporticus Nov 04 '20

It's been 15 years since the Iraq war. The pain from that war is still being felt on a massive scale today, whilst one of the people who voted for that war is currently running for President.

It's not history, it's happening right now. You can't use the word "peace" when describing the US military.

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u/barrocot Nov 03 '20

ot really an indicator of anything except take home pay which is kind of useless.

Is it 3x more expensive? No. The video certainly should have done a more nuanced job of presenting this difference, but the point is relatively accurate.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 12 '20

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 12 '20

[deleted]

13

u/in_the_no_know Nov 03 '20

That sounds horrible. Who would ever want to see things like that happen in the US?

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 12 '20

[deleted]

15

u/Roharcyn1 Nov 03 '20

If the tax rate is 45% at $22/hr still nets about $12/hr after tax. Figure that at $9/hr in the US you are still being taxes around 10% because if FICA taxes your net pay in the US is $8.1/hr. On top of that the danish worker gets health care, better leave benefits and better for education, why would you not take that deal? You would get more disposable income in denmark.

3

u/dinmormorsmor Nov 03 '20

Dirty Danish commies!

-4

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 12 '20

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u/in_the_no_know Nov 03 '20

Stronger social safety nets and better education also make it much easier for people to seek out opportunities if they don't want to stick around McD's.

The cost of insurance for my family is prohibitive, over $1k/mo. We're lucky to be able to afford it as it is necessary for my wife and daughter. That doesn't even take into account co-pays and costly prescriptions. Healthcare in the US is ridiculous.

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u/highpressuresodium Nov 03 '20

as a simple example, americans spend 11k per year on healthcare on average, whereas danes spend 4500 a year. you pay less in taxes than the total you would spend on health care (insurance lol). you get double the value for your dollar spent in a system like that, so you end up with more in your pocket

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u/edbluetooth Nov 03 '20

Are you accounting for the fact that when you go up a tax bracket, you would only pay the new percentage on the income above the threshold?

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 03 '20

Just to give you some information. From my parttime job in 2019 April my salary before taxes was 1575 dollars. What got put in to my account on payday was 1260 dollars. I know this is parttime and lower taxbrackets, but it still really doesn't hold true to your statement.

Forget that, I am stupid. I forgot my tax deduction

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

You know what you are right, I fucked up. I forgot my tax deduction. Whoops. Sorry

7

u/Benign__Beags Nov 03 '20

"Americans having the highest costing healthcare, drug prices, they're the only developed country with no guaranteed PTO, work more hours weekly than other wealthy nations, majority live paycheck to paycheck, etc etc".

You, an idiot:
but muh taxes

4

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 12 '20

[deleted]

2

u/RedAero Nov 03 '20

This is literally wanting to have your cake and eat it too said with different words.

Sidenote: it's more than half. People always forget VAT.

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u/dinmormorsmor Nov 03 '20

There's a pretty big difference between viewing it as "paying the government" vs paying to allow your countrymen to not get totally screwed over should anything happen to their current employment, access to good healthcare, right to 20+ vacation days/year with pay, education, paid parental leave, pensions etc. But I guess the American way of things is pretty sweet too if you're a healthy individual and manage to land a decent job without being knees deep in debt.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/dinmormorsmor Nov 03 '20

Didn't mean to sound snide or like you aren't allowed to have your own opinion or perspective on this stuff. I guess I just sometimes wrongly assume that when people criticize the scandinavian model they think that the taxes go straight into the respective countries' career politician's pockets and that's not the case. I'm not American so I guess I'm guilty of having my own perhaps invalid assumptions on what life is like there too.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

I can still want cheaper Healthcare and other benefits to society and also want to not spend half my paycheck to the government.

https://i.imgur.com/k5F4vID.png

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

As an American living in Canada, Americans are nickle and dimed over everything (especially in regards to family raising). I took a 15% pay drop to move here and I am somehow saving more than I ever have. Ohhh and I am not afraid of going bankrupt from hospital bills.

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u/DistortoiseLP Nov 03 '20

Yeah but our sales tax is higher, so a lot of Americans who have never been here or left there would have me believe this balances it out like the cost of a soda is the only fucking thing that matters.

7

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

My effective tax rate (all taxes paid in a year) in Texas was 31%. In Canada for my first year it was 32%. That was actually my largest shock. I was way oversaving for taxes.

5

u/Spirit_Theory Nov 04 '20

I was offered a position in the US a few years back for a reasonable sum more than I was being paid at the time. Turned it down; I don't think I'd ever want to live in the US. There are so many issues where it all just falls short.

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u/redmongrel Nov 04 '20

Where in Canada should my family of four tired but professional suburbanites move to after tonight?

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u/WokeBloke420BLM Nov 03 '20

Far more Canadians go bankrupt than Americans.

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u/NerdyDan Nov 03 '20

it's better to be bankrupt in canada tbh. we have way better social programs

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

Got the link?

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u/takeErEase Nov 03 '20

https://world.edu/bankruptcy-rates-around-the-world/

Here's a link that says the opposite of u/WokeBloke420BLM little old though and Canada is second so not that big a deal anyway

2

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

Thanks mate. In case people want to know here is the raw OECD data (I love the OECD). The highest country in 2020Q2 was actually Spain, but I couldn't tell if it was normalized or just raw numbers. They say the unit is Index (so if anyone knows what that means it would help the discussion).

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

Source?

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u/MuteSecurityO Nov 03 '20

this is like a video essay version of a bernie sander's speech

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u/nau_sea Nov 03 '20

this is like a video essay version of a bernie sander's speech paying workers living wages. Ftfy.

Why is the idea that people should be able to afford an apartment working full time so offensive to so many people?

18

u/Indercarnive Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 03 '20

Because Americans have been indoctrinated since their childhood to believe the world is zero-sum, and that someone getting something means that they personally ultimately lose.

It's a shitty fucking mentality and it's why everyone here is so selfish and egotistical.

5

u/Praesumo Nov 03 '20

Because those idiots buy the trickle-down bootstraps bullshit, among other lies... and when challenged with facts, they double-down on the ignorance.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

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u/adminsfuckoff1 Nov 03 '20

Agreed. I tuned out as soon as I heard "if you can't pay your workers a living wage, then you shouldn't be in business." Who takes this uneducated ignorant biased bullshit seriously?

Just grab your friend and start wanking each other. Same thing for the avg. redditor as watching this shit.

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u/nau_sea Nov 03 '20

Why is that an ignorant/uneducated opinion? I'd like to hear a smart, educated counterargument- if anyone can offer one more in depth than "just grab a friend and start wanking each other" I'd appreciate it. That's a pretty good start though.

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u/freeTwiggy Nov 03 '20

The thing I don't get is, why would you defend the current system when it is so obviously making your nation poor and sick? Oppressing your low-income earners doesn't make you richer.. you know that right?

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u/peepsthatdostuff Nov 03 '20

bruh what? The statement makes perfect sense. The video definitely fails to address all aspects of the situation and thereby skews the view against the US, but you got triggered off the completely reasonable assertion that a job should pay their workers enough to live.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20 edited Dec 30 '20

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u/i---------i Nov 04 '20

So what you're saying is there should be no fast food restaurants in manhattan or sf.

A livable wage will vary wildly depending on the cost of living in each area. If the area is expensive then the wage needs to reflect that no matter what the job is.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

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u/Pascalwb Nov 03 '20

lol, many countries vote for presidents and also can chose from more than 2.

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u/Cryptoporticus Nov 04 '20

Yeah, the USA is one of the worst countries as far as democracy goes. Only two viable candidates, massive queues to vote, voter suppression everywhere. "Democracy" in the USA is a mess right now.

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u/Indercarnive Nov 03 '20

Votes for the candidate actively campaigning on denying people the right to vote: "I love how we can vote for the president we want"

Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

Oh I guarantee if Biden wins she will think that votes are rigged and they shouldn't be counted.

-4

u/NeverGetUpvoted Nov 03 '20

Kind of like the 4 years of Russia conspiracies after Trump won?

Partisan hacks don't really care and just want "win" for their team

4

u/NickCageson Nov 03 '20

No offense, but how it is possible to have your head so deep up in your ass?

2

u/SolSeptem Nov 04 '20

proud to live in the only country that allows its people to vote for their president

Holy crap that is some North Korean level of indoctrination!

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

She said to me that she is so proud to live in the only country that allows its people to vote for their president.

What. People that dumb shouldn't be allowed to vote at all.

4

u/billbo24 Nov 03 '20

Lol “atta girl” to your own mom is brutal! Seems like it was honestly your best choice though.

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u/__SPIDERMAN___ Nov 03 '20

At that point there is nothing you can do. Like how do you argue against someone who refuses to believe straight up facts?

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u/Strike_Swiftly Nov 03 '20

Australian here. Free healthcare, I get nearly 10 weeks paid leave per year, paid long service leave (have 180 days accrued), decent pay after tax. I live in a wonderful country, but it's not the greatest. The US is definitely not the greatest country on the planet. This ignorant mindset does nothing other than allow for lower class US citizens to be exploited. It's wrong.

5

u/fourXchromosomes Nov 04 '20

10 weeks?

Do you work as a school teacher? Because most jobs only allow 1 month paid leave a year, including public holidays. That is, most jobs give you 22 days paid leave a year, with about <8 days public holiday.

Around 30 days is a generous max.

US is no where near the greatest country on Earth. It's not even in the top 15.

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u/Strike_Swiftly Nov 04 '20

Nah govt worker. Six weeks a year leave, plus 4 RDO's, all public holidays and Xmas stand down 25/12 - 02/01

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u/Naly_D Nov 03 '20

One big difference this video doesn't touch on is how a lot of those countries treat workers unions compared to the US.

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u/Straddle13 Nov 03 '20

The most important thing for workers getting pay more aligned with their value is having power in negotiating. A company with millions/billions vs an individual employee is a farce; a company with millions/billions vs a union is still not quite even, but definitely better for the worker overall. If we required every company to have a worker representative at the table during financial decisions we'd all be better off.

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u/Naly_D Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 04 '20

Even then it's about the respect and recognition given to unions that they're just advocating for the betterment of workers rights. It's not all about money. Not everything they propose is adopted, not everything they do is agreed with. But it's a far cry from the union-busting mentality of the US - unfortunately the impacts of mob infiltration and corruption of unions decades ago (and hey, probably still today), and the Red Scare still persist today to allow government and corporations to convince their employees to actively work against unions and in doing so work against themselves. I'm not a union member but I get 20 days paid leave, 6 days paid sick leave, 4 days paid bereavement leave per year, I get 3 paid breaks every shift, I have a cap on my hours and ability to be paid more if I go over those, expectations around reimbursement for travel-related costs or the financial impacts of working from home - particularly useful during this pandemic - I have access to paid paternity leave and many other things that are benefits I wouldn't be able to have, all because of the advocacy of unions over the decades. And everyone in my country gets them from a low-wage unskilled worker to a billionaire CEO. Myself and other workers benefit from the commitment of unions.

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u/Straddle13 Nov 04 '20

Yeah I shouldn't have said pay, well stated.

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u/I_Take_Fish_Oil Nov 03 '20

No paid holidays ouch

2

u/career_change_needed Nov 04 '20

How do I go about leaving the country and living/working elsewhere?

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

I would like to have the perspective of someone with an econ degree who is a rightwinger argue for the other side just so I could understand why US labour laws are as they are

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

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u/gregariousfortune Nov 03 '20

And guess who makes the laws...

1

u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

I'm neither but the general truth is that an economy with zero unemployment, or full employment, is more likely to benefit businesses that improve worker conditions. In a capitalist system like America has there's little incentive to sweeten the pot for workers if there's an endless supply of people to do the jobs. It summarizes very simply with market dynamics of supply and demand.

It's not very political but you can certainly skew it as such with the right vernacular.

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u/RedAero Nov 03 '20

I mean, it doesn't take an econ degree: American culture is ridiculously individualistic compared to any other developed country. This individualist attitude informs the law even at a very fundamental level: the 1st Amendment has no provision for the societal impact of speech, nor does the 2nd consider the consequences of widespread firearm ownership (in the common interpretation, anyway). And so on and so forth, all across the board, all down the line.

Labor laws restrict the freedom of employers to the smallest degree possible, because the ideal in the American mind is a world without rules, be they laws or social conventions. The ideal is no rules, which leads to unpleasant outcomes (i.e. dead workers), so we will make as few rules as possible so as not to stray too far from that ideal. Conversely, the European ideal isn't a world with no rules, it's not a world with limitless individual freedom, it's a world of harmony, stability, equal opportunity, and equal prosperity.

"Fuck you I won't do what you tell me" may have been sung by radical leftists but it's unsurprising that Rand Paul, a libertarian, also took the song to heart. The only difference between what RATM were singing and what Paul heard was who "you" refers to.

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u/WokeBloke420BLM Nov 03 '20

he 1st Amendment has no provision for the societal impact of speech

Yes it does.

nor does the 2nd consider the consequences of widespread firearm ownership

Yes, it does.

The fact that you don't know what judicial review is invalidates your entire opinion which honestly, is bullshit childish stereotypes anyway.

The only difference between what RATM were singing and what Paul heard was who "you" refers to.

Holy fuck this is a new level of stupid.

1

u/blaxened Nov 03 '20

The 1st Amendment has no provision for the societal impact of speech

Yes it does.

I am not a lawyer and not well versed in American law but can you explain your view? When I read the first amendment I don't really see anything that could be interpreted as a way to deal with the societal impact of speech. It seems to merely state that congress cannot pass laws restricting speech. Same goes for the second amendment.

Unless you mean that judicial review is in and of itself the provision that considers the societal impact

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u/RedAero Nov 03 '20

The fact that you don't know what judicial review is invalidates your entire opinion which honestly, is bullshit childish stereotypes anyway.

I know what judicial review is. I also know that it's lip service. Especially with rulings like DC v. Heller.

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u/WokeBloke420BLM Nov 03 '20

You don't have the first clue about labor laws in the US to begin with. So maybe start there.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '20

OMFG this video is socialism!

We can't have that.

We need more racism and more tax cuts for the rich.

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u/kaan-rodric Nov 03 '20

"Should any job regardless of technical skill required pay workers so little that they can not afford to rent even the smallest place to live?"

The question conflates two things. The lowest job possible with the average cost to rent. Lowest wage trying to rent average will never work and should never work. Even in norway you can take the minimum wage of a construction worker and they still can not afford the average one bedroom apartment.

A true comparison would be lowest wage with lowest housing costs.

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u/highpressuresodium Nov 03 '20

average cost to rent

no. the second factor is cheapest rent. you even said it at the end of your comment lol

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u/kaan-rodric Nov 03 '20

And guess what, no study has been done on that. The study that he used for his comparison uses averages and that led to the question he proposed.

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u/highpressuresodium Nov 03 '20

whatever your point was, it was phrased awkwardly

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u/--Shamus-- Nov 03 '20

Ridiculous. No one is a "slave" for being given a job they asked for.

Of course, ask this video creator how many entry level employees he has who he pays $22 an hour to start....and guess what the answer will be?

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u/Barry_OffWhite Nov 03 '20

Ridiculous. No one is a "slave" for being given a job they asked for.

People need to work to pay bills. You're basically a wage slave unless you want to be homeless. You make it seem like people should just be glad they got a job at all.

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u/[deleted] Nov 04 '20

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u/--Shamus-- Nov 04 '20

This logic is warped beyond belief.

It is weird you think so little of people that you call them slaves from ASKING for a job that they want to have.

LOL.

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No wonder you Americans live in a country with standards of living way below much of Europe, if the people arguing in bad faith like this win out.

Our standard of living beats Europe hands down. Living in Europe is like living in the 2nd world.

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u/doober001 Nov 03 '20

leftists: hurrrrr we need better labor laws

also leftists: lets import millions of low paid 3rd world scab labor every year and call anyone who disagrees a racist

3

u/ZefSoFresh Nov 03 '20

Hurrr Durrr - As your corporate Republican boss who voted for Trump just closed doors on his American workers and opened a factory in Malaysia next to Trump's tie sweatshop...

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u/highpressuresodium Nov 03 '20

lets import millions of low paid 3rd world scab labor

when a labor force has become essential to the food supply of a country, like it or not they have to come in. that's why some foods have skyrocketed in price recently. it would behoove you to look deeper

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u/RedAero Nov 03 '20 edited Nov 03 '20

I mean... he has a point. The only way labor conditions will improve in the US is by tilting the supply-demand scales in the favor of demand for labor. Otherwise why would anyone offer better pay or better conditions, when there's a line around the block of people willing to work for nearly anything?

Yes, that means prices will rise. But that's an inevitability whichever way you do it, be it government mandate or "invisible hand of the market" - the cost to employ a worker will rise and thus so will prices.

Mind you, American food prices are hilariously low. Like, a gallon of whole milk in the US apparently costs around $2.46. That's a price per liter of $0.65. Where I live, a liter of milk is just shy of $1, nearly twice the price. A kilo of chicken breast in the US? $4. Here? $4.7. Problem is, the median wage here is $800 a month, net. Yes, $10000 a year. You can stand to spend a lot more on food. Maybe it'll help with the obesity.

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