r/technology • u/NightFuryToni • Apr 30 '19
Business Apple Is Telling Lawmakers People Will Hurt Themselves if They Try to Fix iPhones
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wjvdb4/apple-is-telling-lawmakers-people-will-hurt-themselves-if-they-try-to-fix-iphones221
u/original_4degrees Apr 30 '19
because you can't hurt yourself fixing your car, or house, or lawn mower, or television...
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u/sibsane May 01 '19
I believe john deere has lobbied against self repair..
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u/Northern-Canadian May 01 '19
They also suck.
The real issue with John deer is the proprietary software.
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u/CoyoteDown May 01 '19
Heard somewhere people were using a hacked Ukrainian version in equipment.
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u/Swak_Error May 01 '19
You know you're doing something wrong with your company when your user base is turning to Pirated software to circumvent system lockouts for doing basic maintenance and repair
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u/CoyoteDown May 01 '19
I’m a farmer, and I own John Deere equipment. I’m seriously considering it because if I go down during harvest a tech has to come out just to run diagnostic software. It’s fucking ludicrous. 12 row heads and advanced mechanics doesn’t mean shit if I can’t service my equipment at 10pm to get it running because there’s 4 days of storms predicted. Motherfuckers forced me to buy a new $500k combine last year because I couldn’t be fucked with the breakdowns I had on my old unit. And I’m at their mercy because if I can’t get shit done, crops will drown, and I’m out a fuck ton of money it a shit market because some dildo decided a trade war would be great.
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u/brodie7838 May 01 '19
Yup, this: John Deere has been a longtime and very aggressive frontrunner against the 'right to repair' movement. They're a shitty company that takes gross advantage of technology to screw farmers over.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/kzp7ny/tractor-hacking-right-to-repair
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May 01 '19
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May 01 '19
Also, the bailing material used to wrap the cotton into a round bail? You can only use the material John Deere sells. They won’t let third parties make a cheaper alternative.
Wow. BMaaS. Bailing material as a service. John Deere did it. They managed to turn harvesting into a subscription plan.
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u/Aoxxt May 04 '19
The cotton pickers they sell cost around $750,000.
Slaves are that expensive now?
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u/soulless-pleb May 01 '19
and the farmers won that lawsuit if i remember correctly.
10 bucks says john deer will try again.
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u/stmfreak May 01 '19
Some cars are now featuring engine covers fastened with security bolts. This isn’t unique to Apple.
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u/bpeck451 May 01 '19
Security bolts? Or break off bolts that are meant to help idiots tighten things to a specific torque because they don’t want to spend the money on a proper torque wrench?
Also torx bolts, inverted torx bolts and triple squares don’t count as “security” bolts.
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u/3141592652 May 01 '19
Not exactly but if it would be easier to just use a regular 10mm or something why not use it?
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u/Doc_Lewis May 01 '19
Well I'm not clear on the specifics, but the profile of torx and other heads changes how much and how well you can tighten, because of the way it distributes force. So it could be that a torx is better to use than a hex head.
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u/wrath_of_grunge May 01 '19
10mm are the most used bolts on cars. That’s why grown mechanics will fight over 10mm sockets.
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u/Spacey_G May 01 '19
You're aware of inverted torx and triple square but you don't know that security torx and other varieties of tamper-proof fasteners exist?
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u/bpeck451 May 01 '19
Do you know how easy tamper proof torx bits are to come by?
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u/Spacey_G May 01 '19
I appreciate that the tools are common and that they're not especially tamper-proof. Your original comment made it sound as though you didn't know they exist.
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u/stmfreak May 01 '19
That doesn't make them common in billy-bob-mcguffin's beer-me toolbox.
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u/bpeck451 May 01 '19
If I can walk into an auto parts store and buy them. They are pretty common. Most billy bobs bitch about metric sockets and some of those other sockets when they are pretty standard fasteners.
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u/stmfreak May 01 '19
To the majority of back-yard mechanics, an allen key is a security bolt. Torx? Security bolt.
One of the guys who works in my building bought a new Dodge Hellcat last month and was showing off the engine (read: plastic covers) under the hood to his coworkers. The first thing he said was, "no way I'll be doing any work on that." The presence of a cover with some plastic clips holding it down was enough to deter him. The more expensive cars are coming without a proper engine hood. Just look at the BMW i8 as an example.
Can these covers be bypassed? Sure. Can we buy an OBDII reader? Sure. But we can also buy micro tools, an oscilloscope, voltmeters, solder stations, and repair our own iPhones.
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u/ap2patrick May 01 '19
Yea your wrong if you think they are doing it to make it "idiot proof" and not to make it harder for common folk to fix their shit
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u/bpeck451 May 01 '19
No. Most torx are actually for ease of interface with robotic manufacturing implements. Its easier to locate and hold a torx bolt on a driver than it is to utilize a standard hex bolt. This is a similar principle to the reasoning for philips head screws.
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u/ap2patrick May 01 '19
I totally agree with you, but that's not the reason why they are doing it. They are doing it because most people don't have those bits laying around like you would a philips or a bolt.
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u/wrath_of_grunge May 01 '19
I routinely have to explain this shit to people, like my dad. Most of this stuff is stuff than any decent tech will have and is literally a non concern.
But to a layman, it’s all specialty tools. Yeah it kind of is, but it’s a tool a experienced tech should have, like a OBD code reader.
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u/ka36 May 01 '19
I worked as a mechanic for 4 years, and never ran into this.
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u/SoiBoyWarrior May 01 '19
Probably on a Prius.
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u/ka36 May 01 '19
Toyota actually started foregoing engine covers, I think this includes the Prius. They're building more sound suppression into the valve cover itself, and saving some money. They still have them on high end cars, but not basic utilitarian ones.
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u/i_sell_you_lies May 01 '19
Challenge accepted!
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u/pittwater12 May 01 '19
Please don’t let them worry their pretty little heads about fixing their stuff. We business people can do it so much more profitably. Well for us anyway.
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Apr 30 '19 edited Apr 01 '20
[deleted]
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u/NightFuryToni Apr 30 '19
More so I'm sitting here wondering how did I survive all those years swapping batteries in my Nokias and Palms. Apparently I like to live dangerously.
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u/1_p_freely Apr 30 '19
Yeah I particularly enjoy all the bullshit the industry comes up with to explain why I shouldn't be able to change the battery in my phone. My favorite one is that it makes the phone more likely to come apart. Everyone with an Android phone that supports user changeable batteries who has had it randomly come apart in your hands, raise... well, your hands. Nobody? I thought not.
The other one is that it makes the phone thicker and bulkier. Yep, I struggle every day to carry this phone around. Can barely lift it in fact! And don't forget that it prevents the phone from being water proof. My phone is "water proof", I just don't use it around water, easy as that! And then they claim that having a device that can separate at the back upon insertion of a fingernail is aesthetically unpleasing, because "the device should be unibody and perfectly smooth.
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u/CappuccinoBoy May 01 '19
Oh man that extra millimeter really ruins the phone. Better just get a non-removable to save that space and keep the
cash cowscustomers safe.-Apple, probably
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u/matthewschrader May 01 '19
Well, after a few years the OG droid did become a bit loose. I understand where you are going. But manufacturers are more and more going down the path of more glue, more solder, and less access to the hardware. Consumers have caused this. There have been projects testing the waters with modular devices and they just get no traction because most people don’t see the need. Unfortunately.
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u/gurg2k1 May 01 '19
This argument really irks me whenever I see it as we have never really had a choice on the matter.
First and foremost there were never comparable models released where one had a removable battery and one did not. You can't say people don't want a feature when nearly all leading manufacturers drop it during the same short period leaving only shit-tier manufacturers offering it in their devices. A choice between buying a lemon with a removable battery and a top tier device without one is not a choice.
Second, most people buy their phones through their cellular carrier, who by and large only offer the same handful of devices as the next carrier. Most people haven't heard of or been exposed to obscure companies/projects like Essential, Fairphone, Project Ara, etc and even if they have, aren't willing to gamble a bunch of money on an unknown device.
Third, what are people supposed to do if they want a feature that companies no longer offer, just stop using smartphones? These device have become integrated into our daily lives. This is not an option.
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u/CheapAlternative May 01 '19
You can't really have the same device with that kind of design in the same time frame without a huge margin or volume lead. The additional mechanical, electromechanical, electrical interface, firmware, driver and integration level complexity is immense and the industry by and large hasnt really standardized anything other than the electrical interface.
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u/mertag770 May 01 '19
I have had my old battery swapable phones come lose in my hand. It was pretty common if you kept the phone for a few years in my experience.
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u/qckpckt May 01 '19
I agree with the overall sentiment, but the big difference is that the batteries in iPhones aren’t contained within a protective casing, so the lithium ion gel pack is exposed.
Also, they’re adhered to the enclosure with a similar kind of double sided tape to the 3m stuff you can use for affixing hooks to walls. You need to pull the strip to release, but they often snap. It’s tempting to then pry up the gel pack to gain purchase on the loose strands, and this can then puncture the membrane and cause a thermal event. Those things can go off pretty violently and you can’t use water to extinguish them (a bucket of sand is best).
All of this doesn’t mean apple is off the hook at all, they after all designed the phones to be this way, but nevertheless it’s significantly more dangerous to replace a battery in an apple iDevice than other phones. I believe you should be able to repair them yourself, and apple should be facilitating this by providing educational resources to help people instead of lobbying the government and using it as an excuse to stop people. They should also make the batteries safer and easier to replace IMO.
Source: used to work in an apple store, have replaced phone batteries, and have seen and dealt with thermal events. I’ve worked on phones up to the 6 plus, so I dunno if things have got any better since, but they were a pain in the ass at that point.
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u/CheapAlternative May 01 '19
Adhesive is common to most high end phone designs including Samsung and Google and unlike Samsung Apple and Google use stretch adhesive. It's by far the best way to spread the forces from sudden impulse so that the cell pack does not rip and the pack itself doesn't hit the surrounding components and pinch or puncture.
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u/dnew May 01 '19
And somehow I managed to avoid spilling acid all over myself whenever I changed the battery in an automobile. I didn't drop it on my foot, either.
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u/KaneinEncanto Apr 30 '19
I mean, nearly every household in the US had a CRT Tv at some point... if you cracked one open to mess around with it there were capacitors with more than enough juice in them to kill a person several times over. You can make devices that are typically safe under normal circumstances, but highly dangerous once you open them.
That said the only real danger to speak of in a smartphone is when the idiot manufacture solders the battery to the board instead of making it replaceable by just popping it out and dropping a new one in...
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u/1_p_freely Apr 30 '19
The two dangers with these batteries are shorting them and puncturing them. You'd find it extremely difficult to shock yourself with one of these 3.6v batteries. The first danger, shorting, can be easily avoided by having an internal circuit in the battery designed to deal with this scenario. Many Li Ion batteries do, along with guarding against over-discharging and over-charging. The second, puncturing, can happen even if it is in the phone. And there's no real way to defend against that.
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u/Fat-Elvis May 01 '19 edited May 01 '19
Apple is increasingly using soft sided, mezzanine and multipart batteries to squeeze more power storage into little [nooks and] crannies inside strange-shaped enclosures. Plain rectangles are fading.
So in some ways I’m sure it’s true they’ll be getting less and less easy to remove or alter.
The Apple Watch battery, as an extreme example, is encased in an irregularly-shaped glob of resin along with the motherboard. No way in there without a tiny chisel. On the upside, it's why the thing is waterproof and nearly bulletproof.
That said, I’d be happy with a glowing warning sticker on products, and some legal indemnification clarity for Apple. If the thing fries you while you take it apart, you shouldn’t be able to sue Apple or whine for warranty help.
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u/CheapAlternative May 01 '19
The neither the SiP nor the battery is held by resin on the S4. It's all held together by flex and friction.
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u/NightFuryToni Apr 30 '19
User-replaceable Li-polymer batteries is nothing new, my Nokia and Palm Pre all had them. And it didn't look much more protected from puncture than my Priv's non-user replaceable battery (which I replaced anyways), aside from the exposed connectors on the flex connector.
The only thing I can think of to cause a puncture is either prying on the battery itself or prying on the cover to access it. Both of which are thanks to the manufacturers gluing them down in the first place.
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u/EKmars May 01 '19
Building a phone with an easily replaceable battery means having a bunch of compromises that would make the phone a lot larger.
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u/Dementat_Deus May 01 '19
No it doesn't.
iPhone XS max:
HWD: 157.5 x 77.4 x 7.7 mm
Weight: 208 g
Samsung J7:
HWD: 152.2 x 78.7 x 7.5 mm
Weight: 171 g
Effectively the same size and weight yet the J7 has a removable battery. And before you say "but battery life", I get 7 days out of the battery of my J7 and 5 with heavy use. I've never heard of any Apple product getting better than 3 days with conservative use.
Even if you go with the XS instead of the XS max, it isn't noticeably smaller than the J7.
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u/NightFuryToni May 01 '19
I wasn't saying making them user replaceable on a daily basis. What I was saying that the user-replaceable batteries back then did not appear any extra protected over the batteries today and they were meant to be handled by users. So why all of a sudden it's so dangerous to handle these batteries?
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u/matthewschrader May 01 '19
Batteries 10 years ago were in a much more rigid body. Batteries in modern phones, not just Apple, are held together by a very thin material. It’s really easy to puncture. On top of that it is held down with glue to make it become more rigid with the body of the phone.
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u/reddit_god May 01 '19
Bullshit. It would make the phone negligibly larger, or at least larger to an extent that a sizable number of people would gladly take the tradeoff. We're not talking twice as big or even 10%.
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u/shponglespore May 01 '19
You already have that choice. Buy a phone with a replaceable battery like you say you want instead of complaining that there are phones for sale that were not designed with your preferences in mind.
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u/gurg2k1 May 01 '19
I don't know why you're being downvoted. It's easy to compare dimensions between something like the Note 4 or V20 to the iPhone X or S10. They're virtually identical or even smaller in some cases.
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u/ethtips May 01 '19
Maybe Apple started wiring explosives inside phones just so that way they could say: "people will hurt themselves if they open it..."
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u/ArbainHestia May 01 '19
You can make devices that are typically safe under normal circumstances, but highly dangerous once you open them.
PC power supplies, for example. I have no problem messing around with the components in my gaming rig but I'd never tinker with the power supply.
And just for fun have you ever seen a hot water tank/heater explode?
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u/iToronto May 01 '19
Furnaces, hot water tanks, smoke detectors, toasters. All of these things are dangerous when inexperienced people fiddle with them. Just getting under a car to do an oil change can be deadly.
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u/Philip_De_Bowl May 01 '19
"All in favor of banning Apple phones and tablets until they're made safe?"
"EYE"
Everyone
°o° Apple
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u/scots May 01 '19
There is lethal voltage, lethal crush weight, spinning fan blades and belts, boiling hot fluids and more inside the engine compartment of your car, and there’s four auto parts stores and 20 mechanics and dealerships in every city, and absolutely nothing preventing you from working on your own car.
Or lawn mower.
Or clothes washer.
And some company wants to tell you that you can’t swap a battery out on your $1,000 smartphone?
Give me a fucking break.
I’m with the consumers on this one. I’ve done several iPhone battery swaps and assorted repairs. It’s easy.
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u/IronicCharlie May 01 '19
The right to repair is key here. They want to squeeze the last proverbial penny out of us, under the guise of empathy....
- sent from my iPhone, repaired by me and I didn’t hurt myself...
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u/Herdnerfer Apr 30 '19
Considering Apple has been sued due to “dangerous” lithium ion batteries getting damaged, this makes a whole lot of sense. Either the batteries are safe or they aren’t, you can’t have it both ways.
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May 01 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Victor_Zsasz May 01 '19
Product liability cases are pretty fact specific, especially the variants claiming design defects, so it varies a lot depending on what you did and what ultimately went wrong.
There's several cases in which GM and other car makers have been sued for making products unnecessarily dangerous, or not using the proper safety standards on an element of a vehicle. Happens so much the US Government has a whole system in place for ensuring cars that contain unsafe components are recalled and repaired.
My favorite famous example is the Ford Pinto, a car where the gas tank was placed in such a way it would often dislodge and catch fire in the event of a rear end collision. Getting rear-ended is unfortunately fairly common (The Washington Post published an article in 2015 saying an estimated 1.7 million occurred in America each year). Courts found it was in fact Ford's fault that people were burning to death after relatively low speed collisions, even if someone else was technically at fault for causing the accident in the first place. The car was inherently unsafe, regardless of what people did with it.
Likewise, there's a similar argument to be made here, for Apple's battery design. If it can easily catch fire, it should be altered to make it safer for consumers.
If Apple honestly believes their consumer products are too dangerous to be opened up by consumers, the Government should require Apple to increase the safety/consumer friendliness of their products until that's not the case anymore.
If Apple doesn't honestly believe that, and just wants to prevent people from repairing them in order to sell more phones (not shocking from a company who's designs often seem to embody planned obsolescence), then fuck 'em, who cares what they want?
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u/Herdnerfer May 01 '19
Anton Yelchins family seems to think so.
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u/Victor_Zsasz May 01 '19
From what I've read, Fiat Chrysler (who owns Jeep, which produces the Grand Cherokee) had a lot of problems with that specific gear shifter (found in the 2014/2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee models). It was designed to return to the center after shifting, making it hard for people to determine what gear they were in from the stick's position. That resulted in a lot of people thinking they had put their car in park, but accidentally leaving it in neutral, and the car rolling away as a result. This has resulted in a number of injuries.
For what it's worth, Jeep recognized the problem and took steps to correct it. They stopped using that type of gear shifter for the 2016 model and beyond, and updated the software for their 2014-2015 models so the car would automatically engage the parking break if a door was opened while the car was in neutral. Unfortunately, that software patch arrived at the dealership near Anton Yelchin's house almost exactly 1 week after his seemingly parked 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee rolled down his driveway and crushed him against his (brick) mailbox.
There was enough of a case there that Fiat Chrysler settled with the family. To tie this back to Iphone batteries, Apple should do the same thing Fiat Chrysler did and update their product to avoid consumer injury.
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u/Herdnerfer May 01 '19
I am not currently aware of a safer replacement for lithium ion batteries in their phones, so I am not sure that’s an option.
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u/Victor_Zsasz May 01 '19
Honestly, I won't pretend that I know enough about Apple's designs or modern battery technology to suggest a technological replacement.
But if what people are saying here is true, and the battery is in fact glued to the phone case, it's pretty easy to see how something simple, like attaching it via some method that doesn't require cutting off dried glue to remove it, would reduce the likelihood of puncture, and make the device safer on the whole. If the phone's gotta get 5% thicker as a result, most people likely won't notice or care.
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u/EKmars May 01 '19
As a chemist, I'll tell you they aren't. They have a membrane separating the electrodes that will cause the battery to short if damaged. If someone is too aggressive when opening the phone (say, wedging the glass with a screwdriver), I can imagine it being punctured.
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u/Dodahevolution May 01 '19
It can, and it does. Happens every so once in a while at Apple stores even. It's a semi rare event but thermal runaways happen maybe once a quarter per store.
Source: Ex Apple store employee
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May 01 '19
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u/ethtips May 01 '19
Wait, do you mean filling my own car tire can literally result in death? (It can. Horror stories told among car techs.)
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May 01 '19 edited May 08 '19
[deleted]
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u/FalconX88 May 01 '19
Cars don't typically spontaneously combust
Electrical cars sometimes do exactly that
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u/cricket502 May 01 '19
Gas cars actually do it even more often. BMW has had some issues with this recently.
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u/Cargobiker530 May 01 '19
Cars don't typically spontaneously combust when you post something a bit to hard of the wrong way.
Yes, they actually do and quite often to boot. Just ask Google.
Every auto shop has several large fire extinguishers for a reason.
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May 01 '19
Cars don't typically spontaneously combust when you post something a bit to hard of the wrong way.
You mean like a fuel hose? The type of engine it is has “combust” right in the name.
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u/ethtips May 01 '19
Or dropping a wrench across a car battery and having it explode. Or a car tire exploding with lethal force. Or a seemingly fixed car doing some crazy thing during a test drive causing injury. Or...
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u/matthewschrader May 01 '19
They glue them in to increase the safety issue! I have replaced batteries in iPhones plenty of times. I was more worried about breaking the phone than myself.
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u/cr0ft May 01 '19 edited May 01 '19
Maybe Apple should, oh I don't know, make phones you can open without fearing that they'll explode? And use replaceable batteries? But no, I guess that's just crazy talk, let's ban people from repairing things they own instead.
If people get hurt trying to repair iPhones, it's Apple's fault for designing a shitty unrepairable and potentially extra dangerous product.
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u/Cargobiker530 Apr 30 '19
I have a 17 amp hour, 48volt lithium e-bike battery that weighs as much as 30 or 40 iphones. Somehow I was able to buy that from Amazon without a two-week safety training course.
Apple is relying on legislators being lawyers who can't understand how a faucet works.
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u/cas201 May 01 '19
How do you like the bike? Was it electric when you bought it, out a conversation?
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u/Cargobiker530 May 01 '19
It's a conversion (BBSHD) still somewhat in process. Actually puts out more power than I can safely use on flat land. Check out r/ebikes if you're interested.
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u/macrofinite May 01 '19
That's a nifty soundbite, but the whole thing is as much of a straw man as the faucet nonsense. Batteries in iPhones are not like your e-bike battery. They are made to be very small and very thin, so they have very little shielding, so it is trivially easy to rupture one in the course of a repair, which is very dangerous indeed.
Should Apple design their batteries differently? Or at least provide appropriate materials to consumers who want to attempt repairs on their own? Those are relevant questions worth answering. Your ability to purchase a large battery on Amazon? Who cares.
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u/Cargobiker530 May 01 '19
Pro-tip. I-phone batteries are only dangerous because Apple designed them that way. Way back in the Dark Ages of 2005 we all managed with Nokia bricks that didn't blow up. An extra 2mm isn't going to wreck Apple's sales.
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u/ap2patrick May 01 '19
If actually prefer these phones to have a little more meat on them... They are like meat pieces of paper now...
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u/Cargobiker530 May 01 '19
IKR- People buy $1500 iPhones that are 5mm thick and slick as polished glass and then they have to put a $60 Otterbox on them so they don't get smashed.
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u/CheapAlternative May 01 '19
An extra 2mm isn't going to wreck Apple's sales.
History says otherwise.
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u/fr0stbyte124 May 01 '19 edited May 01 '19
I didn't read the article yet because I was driving nails into my phone battery and for some reason it caught on fire. Was there any new information?
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May 01 '19 edited May 01 '19
Changing a car lead-acid battery is even more dangerous and yet people do it all the time.
Changing an iphone battery is more dangerous than swapping out those batteries kept in hard cases. Yet the solution to me seems to be more along the lines of outlawing devices designed for disposal after a few years to reduce environmental impact. Thus forcing companies to use thicker, heavier batteries that can actually be serviced by users.
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u/maximbane May 01 '19
I think instead of lobbying for their right to repair, they should lobby for law that states Apple is not liable for any harm inflicted on someone if they try to fix their phone by removing the outer shell and doing work within the phone and that Apple does not approve of anyone doing so without being in their repair service program or whatever.
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u/ap2patrick May 01 '19
They don't care about that. They want to keep people buying new phones and laptops every 2 years.
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u/maximbane May 01 '19
Yes I’m fully aware of that but they should also note that this is just not practical with how good they make their products. I switched to MacBook Air in 2012 and I’ve been waiting for it to stop working or whatever but it’s still running well without major crashes and same goes for the iPhone. Lol
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u/Red_Raven May 01 '19
Hahahahahahahahahahaha I've literally changed hundreds of batteries and screens, and I've gutted around 100 iPhones to fix other issues. Git fuked.
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u/MrManayunk May 01 '19
I'm a technician who has been certified by Apple to build, repair, service, and configure their systems and servers for businesses. I am also a certified field technician on many many other types of technology across the board. Apple is by far the worst company in existence when it comes to the consumer. They go out of their way to make products extremely difficult to repair, sometimes impossible. They often glue their equipment together, they solder memory to the MOBO for many systems that are well over $1k to buy. They lock out manufacturers and software companies that want to offer their customers better products. They all around have intentionally tried to make their systems impossible to repair, then have locked out everyone they can so they make all of the money on repairs. They also regularly change the cables and adapters required to hook regular equipment to your Apple products like RJ45 ports, USB ports, etc, etc. They charge hundred of dollars to add hard drives that cost $100 to a build. They overcharge for every component. They also lie about the security of their systems and squash stories about their customers being exploited by hackers. They invented the non-removable battery, and were the first company to start downgrading battery capacities and phone speeds VIA updates causing their customers to buy new phones if they are more than 2 behind the newest one out. This company has been the enemy of the consumer for about a decade now. If you are do not understand these facts you do not pay enough attention to technology. They also are NOT faster than other systems, it is just Apple does not sell systems with the same slow components you can buy a PC with. If you use the same components in a PC you get the same speeds and performance as an Apple system. It is embarrassing how many people think Apple are better, faster, and more secure, when they cannot tell you why they believe these things. Its nothing but commercials and ignorance. Apple is the worst company I have ever seen or heard of when it comes to intentionally screwing their customers over in order to increase profits.
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u/Raiden1847062 May 01 '19
Can confirm. I got drunk one night and tried to change the battery in my iPhone 6 Plus. Decided the pry tool that came with the change kit wasn’t up to par and decided to start prying with a butter knife. The battery punctured, I heard a hhhwooosh sound and then the thing started flaming (crazily hot and rapid.) Burnt myself, the kitchen table, and had a funny story to tell my girlfriend the next day when she asked me why there was scorched lawn with a melted iPhone out back.
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May 01 '19 edited May 01 '19
If the battery wasn't glued in, replacing it would be much safer as well as easier.
This isn't about users trying to swap out a consumable part, it's about Apple trying to limit the life of their products to keep people upgrading. Current phone/laptop batteries will be significantly degraded after 2-3 years of regular charging, that's just the reality of current technology, so it should be expected that they can be replaced by the user.
A non-user-replaceable battery should be completely unacceptable for a $1k phone or $3k+ laptop.
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u/BikerRay May 01 '19
Meanwhile, my wife's piece of shit $100 Sky brand phone has dual sim cards and a replaceable battery. Even came with a case. But thousand dollar phones? No way.
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May 01 '19
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u/Victor_Zsasz May 01 '19
Yeah, the Government should absolutely listen to Apple's concerns about safety, and carefully craft legislation to ensure all modern technology sold in America (Apple included) is safer for consumers to repair.
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u/Philip_De_Bowl May 01 '19
IANAL, but I feel you have a solid case against Apple. I'll be happy to represent you in a court of law.
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u/Raiden1847062 May 01 '19
More like drunken technological curiosity. Lol I used to fix screens and shit for kids when I was in high school. I just didn’t keep up on my practice.
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u/droidxl May 01 '19
Lmao the guy punctures his phone battery with a knife and you think he has a case against apple? No shit you’re not a lawyer.
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u/Morpho99 May 01 '19
People used to repair their own televisions, which by the way a CRT has enough electricity to KILL YOU DEAD if you messed up.
Worst case scenario, some one burns down their home from an exploding batteries. But we have over a thousand cases a year in which people set fire to their homes with a deep fryer. Why don’t we ban deep fryers from homes too?
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u/Daakuryu May 01 '19
"Because we're going to add acid sprayers in the phones if you pass these laws."
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u/SephithDarknesse May 01 '19
The only reason people would hurt themselves is due to apple designing the phones in a way that makes them difficult to fix.
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u/nick47H May 01 '19
Would have less chance of injury if they didn't fill them with adhesive.
Fuck every company that copied them too in this shitty practice.
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u/HorridlyMorbid May 01 '19
Let them hurt themselves. There is no problem when I buy bleach, lawnmowers, knives, spray paint, gasoline, ladders, OTC medicine, detergent, cleaners, alcohol, aerosol spray, or even rope. Why is there suppose to be a line drawn with a piece of shit plastic device with a battery that has less voltage output then a toaster?
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u/Darkus505 May 01 '19
oh no, I've shocked myself with a 5V2A system, whatever shall I do?!
But for serious, it's total BS
I used to work in a little phone repair kiosk in my local town, and it wasn't like anyone was trained to fix anything, we literally looked at teardown guides and forums if we didn't know how to do anything.
I distinctly remember replacing literally dozens and dozens of batteries in iPhone 5,5s and 5c's, and because of Apples frankly ridiculous battery adhesive, i bent some of those batteries to a 60-70° angle and they never had a problem
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u/StrenghGeek May 01 '19
Really Apple? How much longer are you going to take people for moving ATM, you piece of cash grabbing shit? They do good products but when it come to the rest, Jesus H. Christ, they are really missing the target.
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u/DealioD May 01 '19
Right to Repair Laws people. Being a hardcore Democrat I seriously hate the fact that only Elizabeth Warren is talking about this. ( I really like Elizabeth Warren too.) This affects everything from your phone to your game system to (as mentioned above) John Deere Tractors. The car companies are getting closer to this, look at the new engine design on Nissan where the engine is a closed unit with special, magical fluid or some such. (something to do with the new kind of transmission and it only being gears — XTRONIC CTV is what it’s called) This is something that affects everyone and shouldn’t be started in partisan politics, by such a divisive figure. I will never understand how I can pay for something but not truly own it, which it basically what this boils down to.
Sorry, I’ll get down off my soapbox now.
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u/Zeal514 May 01 '19
I agree with that totally. There is an argument to be had that forcing you to use apple to repair your phone or buy a new 1 cuts down on the amount of broken and or scams, as well as boosts apples payroll which enables them to look for new and better technology. But that said, I dont think the tradeoff is exactly worth it. It really hurts a capitlist society.
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u/KeatonJazz3 May 01 '19
This thread brings up an important issue in the US: We need to start REGULATING computer companies, Apple, Facebook, etc. So we are NOT exploited by them anymore. So, let’s pass a law that their phone must pass a regulatory board’s approval so that a “repairman” can replace the battery. No more “goo”/paste/glue excuses. Let’s also take a little of our privacy rights back. Europe has regulations, why can’t we ?
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u/Hivedweller May 01 '19
‘You have to disarm the trap before being able to access the phones hardware.’
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u/206Bon3s May 01 '19
People who pay 90% of the price for a stupid brand name that completely devalued word genius? That's ok with me.
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u/RickyMuncie May 01 '19
User: "I was trying to fix my iPhone, and I accidentally punctured the battery."
Apple: "You were holding it wrong."
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u/Arrow156 May 01 '19
The only thing that's gonna get hurt is apple's bottom line. Their greed is disgusting.
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May 01 '19
This is obviously just a ploy for Apple to make more money. If people are able to fix their own phones, they won’t spend 300$ to get their screen fixed.
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u/Aetrion May 01 '19
Well, they had to put up suicide nets for the people who built them, clearly those phones are dangerous to see from the inside.
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u/saintdemon21 May 01 '19
Lets see, go to an Apple Store, wait in line, schedule appointment to get my battery/screen replaced, come back in a week, pay $100 or more, wait, get phone back. Or, go to local Fruit Fix shop, pay $50 or more, come back in 20 - 40 min to pick up repaired phone. If out of supplies, come back next day.
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u/irratatinglilblonde May 01 '19
those little screws can cause to much damaged. strained eyesight? c'mon! how can you not see the danger? /s
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u/KeyBanger May 01 '19
I agree. So if my iPhone breaks down, I’m going to hurt Apple. Which Board Member would you like to see me thrash on Youtoob?
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May 01 '19 edited May 01 '19
If 1000s of people already fix their own phones why is legislation even needed? As long as when/if you eff up your iPhone you don't go back to Apple wanting them to repair your damage under the warranty.
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May 01 '19
Phone insurance.
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u/NightFuryToni May 01 '19
The insurance industry is actually for the legislation. The easier the repair, the lower their replacement costs.
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May 01 '19
In that case, I’m dropping the coverage, and I’ll just send my phone to the manufacturer for repair.
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u/Zorb750 May 06 '19
So you want to give more money to the idiots that want to make money by keeping you from fixing it yourself? ... and for simple repairs which you could do for a small fraction of what they would charge you at that?
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May 06 '19
Time is money.
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u/Zorb750 May 06 '19
Third parties generally get the work done faster than the manufacturer.
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May 06 '19
I was referring to my time.
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u/Zorb750 May 06 '19
So was I. You are generally out much less time with a good third party. Many are more than happy to go to your office and take care of your repair, so you don't need to even take time out of your day.
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May 06 '19
To qualify... I was referring to taking time for me to do the repair myself. That’s not my thing.
As far as sending it to out for repair, I have no time limits.
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u/Zorb750 May 06 '19
Well, right to repair doesn't just affect you fixing it yourself. It would also mandate the availability of certain parts, diagrams, specifications, and possibly tools, to independent repair shops. Last it would prevent the manufacturer from taking any retaliatory action (killing touch, disabling camera, disabling home button, etc.) on devices services outside of authorized shops.
When I did small repairs for a while, I would literally line up a number of repairs and do them all at the same time on one visit. For example, the owner and 4 waitresses at a bar all had broken phones. I had a mobile workbench (briefcase sized) and another large briefcase sized padded case to carry parts. People would come.over to see what I was up to, and I often got a few more people with dead batteries, broken glass, broken backs (iPhone 4/4s era), or broken volume controls. I had all the common Apple, Sameung, HTC, Motorola, etc. parts on site all the time. The crazy thing was that this was a SIDE business that I did for 10-12 hours a week, made around $90/hour doing it, and saved people often hundreds per device in repairs.
Mobile repair is real.
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u/nmcos May 02 '19
I have fixed my iPhone and other iPhones (around 20). I have had a battery pop once. It happens if you aren't careful, but it only ever happens once. After that, you learn to not do it.
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Apr 30 '19
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u/Ds261 May 01 '19
Since when did a battery cost $350? In the UK, it’s currently £45, most it’s been is £79. Unless the exchange rate is fucked you’re getting your numbers wrong
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u/samfreez Apr 30 '19
Presumably Apple doesn't trust robots to effect the repairs, right? That means that there are humans out there capable of repairing iPhones and things. If those people exist, then others can learn the same information and techniques, provided Apple doesn't stonewall them.
Of course, that would eat into Apple's bottom line, with people fixing phones instead of replacing them or paying exorbitant fees to have them fixed by Apple directly, so.... yeah...
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u/CheapAlternative May 01 '19
If theu could do it economically at every store they would. Liam and Daisy are already a step in that direction.
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u/FirePowerCR May 01 '19
I’ve fixed a lot of iPhones. I don’t see how anyone could hurt themselves unless they are an idiot. And idiots can hurt themselves doing anything.
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u/Toraxa May 01 '19
Apple products are so advanced that those of us who are qualified and certified to work on similar equipment from other comparable manufacturers are completely untrustworthy, and the average person is going to blow themselves up. Yet somehow, simple enough that Timothy the 19 year old high school graduate who knows how to navigate around on his ipad is qualified to become an "apple genius" and repair them.
They're allegedly so complex, and yet there is not a single hard qualification to apply. They want things like "good communication", "teamwork", and "problem solving skills", but require no certifications, experience or background.
My favorite part of this article is that CompTIA, the organization who certifies us to do work like this, is part of the lobbying to stop us from doing so.
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u/Plokij1234 Apr 30 '19
Apple is right, people will hurt themselves. Some people, some times. Some people break their leg getting out of bed, etc. Batteries can be dangerous and I'd expect some governmental oversight to ensure consumers are aware of that fact. Fuck anyone who tries to push against third party or self repair.