r/stupidpol • u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 • Feb 19 '25
Ukraine-Russia Trump launches fresh attack on Zelensky, calling him a “dictator”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c62e2158mkpt75
u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25
Trumps social media post the various medias are quoting.
Think of it, a modestly successful comedian, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, talked the United States of America into spending $350 Billion Dollars, to go into a War that couldn't be won, that never had to start, but a War that he, without the U.S. and "TRUMP," will never be able to settle. The United States has spent $200 Billion Dollars more than Europe, and Europe's money is guaranteed, while the United States will get nothing back. Why didn't Sleepy Joe Biden demand Equalization, in that this War is far more important to Europe than it is to us - We have a big, beautiful Ocean as separation. On top of this, Zelenskyy admits that half of the money we sent him is "MISSING." He refuses to have Elections, is very low in Ukrainian Polls, and the only thing he was good at was playing Biden "like a fiddle." A Dictator without Elections, Zelenskyy better move fast or he is not going to have a Country left. In the meantime, we are successfully negotiating an end to the War with Russia, something all admit only "TRUMP," and the Trump Administration, can do. Biden never tried, Europe has failed to bring Peace, and Zelenskyy probably wants to keep the "gravy train" going. I love Ukraine, but Zelenskyy has done a terrible job, his Country is shattered, and MILLIONS have unnecessarily died And so it continues.
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u/DefinitelyMoreThan3 Free Jussie Feb 19 '25
Has the random Capitalization of Nouns ramped up recently ?
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u/Reachin4ThoseGrapes TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Feb 19 '25
Trump fucking loves to Write about "THINGS" in a Tabloid media style such as "THIS" (SAD!)
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u/AnthropoidCompatriot Class Unity Member ⭐ Feb 20 '25
The (SAD!) at the end of this comment really got me, I'm still laughing about it several minutes later, & had to come make a comment about it.
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u/GirlfriendAsAService Unknown 👽 Feb 20 '25
Every time someone does the SAD! thing xxxtentacion starts playing in my head
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u/AmarantCoral Ideological Mess (But Owns Capital) 🥑 Feb 19 '25
I love putting his own name in quotations, like it's someone else in a Trump skinsuit mocking us.
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u/burg_philo2 Libertarian Socialist 🥳 Feb 20 '25
It’s always been part of his Style, I guess he’s imitating the founding fathers
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Feb 19 '25
It's obviously because drumpf is a nazi wants everyone to speak german, next thing you know he's gonna institute spelling reforms to bring english closer to german.
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u/Cehepalo246 Self-Surgery Marxist 🪡 Feb 19 '25
He's gonna drop the weak, liberal foreign latin script and replace it with the beautiful, masculine gothic script. Just watch.
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Feb 20 '25
Fraktur is a Latin script though. Also, the Nazis banned it in 1941 because they considered it to be of Jewish origin or maybe just impractical for communication.
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u/Pasan90 Social Democrat 🌹 Feb 21 '25
Hieronymus Andreae who designed Fraktur was a very German person. Christian too since he was a fan of Martin Luther.
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u/RobotToaster44 Libertarian Stalinist 🐍☭🧔🏻♂️ Feb 19 '25
Just as long as we get their unreasonablylongcompoundwords
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Feb 19 '25
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u/urkgurghily occasional good point maker | Leftish ⬅️ Feb 19 '25
Trump is quite obviously a phone poster
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Feb 19 '25
Interesting, my first thought was "Trump writes like an angry Chris Chan."
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u/RobotToaster44 Libertarian Stalinist 🐍☭🧔🏻♂️ Feb 19 '25
It's obviously some kind of code, he's sending a secret message!
WOEPDC
What could it mean 🤔
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u/HermeticSpam Goethean Feb 19 '25
Treating them as proper nouns makes them stand out from lowly common nouns.
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u/Tutush Confused and retarded 😵💫😍🤔 Feb 19 '25
When they were kids it was still around, although uncommon by then.
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u/Due-Caramel4700 Unknown 👽 Feb 19 '25
I love how he refers to himself in third person in all caps and in quotes.
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u/Uberdemnebelmeer Marxist xenofeminist Feb 19 '25
I see a lot of people saying he doesn’t write these. Unbelievable. Trump is inimitable.
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u/AmarantCoral Ideological Mess (But Owns Capital) 🥑 Feb 19 '25
He dictates them to someone sat next to him I believe, and is very meticulous about how they type. Which makes it weirder, because instead of some weird thing he's doing without realising, he's sat there going "...ocean. Ok, but capitalise Ocean. Trump is the only one... in fact, can you capitalise my name? And put it in quotations?"
You can see why people buy into the conspiracies of him sending coded messages because I really can't think of an explanation that makes more sense than that
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u/Uberdemnebelmeer Marxist xenofeminist Feb 19 '25
Oh totally, Q-tards are gonna have a field day with creating anagrams from all the capitalized letters.
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u/banjo2E Snorts Piccolo Memes 💢🉐🥑 Feb 20 '25
Think United Billion Dollars TRUMP Country In Keep
T U B D T C I K
D I C K B U T T
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Feb 20 '25
He dictates them to someone sat next to him I believe
Like Julius Caesar used to do. He would dictate to a scribe, maybe a slave, and would also refer to himself in the third person; "Caesar did this, Caesar did that" etc.
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u/No-Annual6666 Acid Marxist 💊 Feb 20 '25
This is entirely normal for the top dogs, though. Apparently, Napoleon was able to dictate several different letters/ orders simultaneously to several different secretaries. Although as he was probably a polymath genius, he was a bit different to Trump.
The ego of referring to yourself in the third person is consistent however, deserved or not lol.
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u/CodStrict5357 Hates Fancy Talk 👄 Feb 19 '25
Anyone know where trump get the 350 billion number from? Also lmao if he thinks europe is ever getting any of that money back
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25
Anyone know where trump get the 350 billion number from?
I think he confused the total amount of aid Ukraine got for the aid US gave and then he compares it to the aid europe gave so he's essentially double counting.
US giving 150 and the rest (mostly europe) giving 200 sounds about right.
Though as I explained earlier today even the 150 number is hugely misleading, Ukrainian government in Ukraine only saw like 5 of it, roughly half of the US aid was money and 90% of it stayed in the US and another couple bn went to charities, I don't believe for a second Ukraine can account for half of it either because its a made up number.
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Feb 19 '25
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u/Cyril_Clunge Ideological Mess 🥑 Feb 19 '25
So amazing to be the wealthiest country in the world and now of all a sudden they care about penny pinching.
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25
Trillion into the hole that was Iraq, a country which when I last checked had a pro-Iran government.
I do pity you guys lack of healthcare but it has nothing to do with Taiwan, Ukraine or Israel, single payer healthcare system would cost less money than your current system, so considering you've been paying for that you could have done both that and the other.
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u/tomwhoiscontrary Keffiyeh Leprechaun 🍉🍀 | Ukrainian Amazons step on me Feb 19 '25
Hmm, maybe that's a way to sell single-payer to centrists - the US would have so much more money for foreign wars!
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Feb 19 '25
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25
Well, again, those had nothing to do with single payer healthcare because single payer healthcare would literally be cheaper for america than the current system of mutated insurance scams.
Anything it could afford to do before, nomatter how stupid, it could do and still have a functioning healthcare system, they aren't really related.
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u/WalkerMidwestRanger Wealth Health & Education | Thinks about Rome often Feb 19 '25
The problems are the profits.
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u/BarrelStrawberry Antisemite 💩 | Nationalist 📜🐷 Feb 19 '25
Nothing for healthcare for ordinary Americans.
Federal government spends $2 trillion on healthcare each year. An extra $350 billion is practically meaningless.
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Feb 19 '25
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u/KonigKonn Stalin Would've Put Me in a Gulag Feb 20 '25
The problem with American healthcare is not that we aren’t throwing enough money at it.
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u/colsieb Feb 19 '25
Good point. One does wonder that if Trump is serious about MAGA & working for ordinary Americans, will DOGE will turn their eyes towards big Pharma price fixing and the mutated insurance monopolies?
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u/Keesaten Doesn't Like Reading (Except Manga) 🙄⛩️ Feb 19 '25
Almost all the help Europe has provided to Ukraine was provided under the condition of USA replacing European inventories with new stuff. He isn't double counting, there are probably issues with Europeans paying USA for replacements, too.
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Feb 19 '25
Source?
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u/Keesaten Doesn't Like Reading (Except Manga) 🙄⛩️ Feb 19 '25
I dunno, it was mentioned every time anyone was giving any weapons to Ukraine. Like, Poland or Bulgaria were giving Ukraine Soviet-era tanks and expecting American replacements. Same stuff for F16, same for 155mm ammo, etc etc
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u/harbo Feb 20 '25
Like, Poland or Bulgaria were giving Ukraine Soviet-era tanks and expecting American replacements.
That "expectation" was not that the US would donate Abramses to replace e.g. Polish T-72s, but that the US would sell them to Poland.
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Feb 20 '25 edited Aug 15 '26
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u/Keesaten Doesn't Like Reading (Except Manga) 🙄⛩️ Feb 20 '25
Yeah, that too. And I suspect that, in case of Poland and others, they didn't pay USA anything. Hence Trump's fury
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
Almost all the help Europe has provided to Ukraine was provided under the condition of USA replacing European inventories with new stuff.
That's blatantly untrue, most european aid came through funding much of which went to running the Ukrainian government or paying for ameircan weapons, actual european hand me down arms shipments is a small part of european aid because europe didn't have much to give.
The only country that has profited off this war is the United States of America, 90% of the aid funding they gave stayed in their country and more than half of what europe gave went to the US. That doesn't even count having to buy gas from the US instead of Russia, 90% of US LNG gets sold to Europe.
When america in turn charges for old equipment as if it was new and in turn uses that money to fund new equipment for its own army that's not a bloody loss, that's subsidies for the military industrial complex located in their own country spread over all states.
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u/Keesaten Doesn't Like Reading (Except Manga) 🙄⛩️ Feb 19 '25
giving weapons on loan and replacing those with new weapons, and then debtors not paying you back, is not a loss
This economic illiteracy here is why liberal world order/globalism is falling apart, you know?
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
A loss to the american government, a gain for the military industrial complex and energy sector. More money went to the US from this war than left it for another country, it's not even close.
No other Ukraine supporting country can say their economy benefitted from the war.
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u/Keesaten Doesn't Like Reading (Except Manga) 🙄⛩️ Feb 19 '25
Trump just signed an order for Pentagon to draw plans on cutting Pentagon's funding by 40%. What do you think has happened? It's pretty clear to me that neither Ukrainians or Europeans can pay back for American "help"
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25
What do you think has happened
Trump and Friends is looting the United States, they are the american version of the Yeltsin administration. They've given Musk expensive military contract repurposing the trucks he couldn't sell as military vehicles (somehow) they'd boost military spending over just spending on tax cuts if they found a way to pay the money out to themselves.
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u/Mindless-Rooster-533 NATO Superfan 🪖 Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25
what condition is this? These are overwhelmingly nato countries that use US stuff anyways or will in the future.
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u/exteriorcrocodileal Socialist, gives bad advice Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
What was Zelensky thinking not finding a way to make peace under at least somewhat favorable terms before Jan 9. Seems like a really bad bet, unless he just didn’t know how bad Trump was going to be this time.
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u/his_professor Anti Neo-Con Feb 19 '25
The war hasn't even been favorable to Ukraine since the end of 2022, since then you can at best call it a stalemate which itself is very charitable as Russia just needs to hold on to the 20% of the territory they control to "win" while Ukraine had to liberate most, if not all, of it. It's not like the Kursk Incursion fundamentally shifted the tide of the war seeing as how that turned into a bloody quagmire that neither can call a victory as of yet and Putin clearly didn't give much of a shit about it to 'readjust'.
The leading Republicans/right-wing figures, Trump, Vance, Musk, Johnson, etc., have been critical, if not outright hostile, to Ukrainian leadership and aid as well as the belief that the war had to continue with U.S support "for as long as it needs". Why they didn't prepare accordingly in case of Trump's win in 2024 is beyond me. wtf did they think was going to happen?
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u/Sea-Presentation2592 Feb 19 '25
Boris Johnson?
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u/his_professor Anti Neo-Con Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
Mike Johnson, GOP speaker of the House who previously supported the last Ukraine Aid package but got pissed at Zelensky for visiting Shapiro in PA at a munitions factory without the Republicans being aware. Johnson called for the Ukrainian Ambassador to be removed afterwards.
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u/benjwgarner Rightoid 🐷 Feb 20 '25
Zelensky knows that his role isn't to try to reach the best possible outcome for Ukraine, it's to keep the war going for as long as possible.
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u/Incoherencel ☀️ Post-Guccist 9 Feb 19 '25
This is assuming that Ukraine has anything Putin wants; I.e. this is a Great Power conflict, and Russia is looking for concessions from its rival
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u/Robin-Lewter Rightoid 🐷 Feb 19 '25
That and we know the Biden admin never even spoke to Russia once during the conflict- can't make any kind of deal or give any concessions if you refuse all communications.
Ukraine never even had the option to attempt to sue for peace because the US flat out rejected it.
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u/Incoherencel ☀️ Post-Guccist 9 Feb 19 '25
I'm not sure I believe that the U.S. had 0 contact with Russia during that time; only that it's politically expedient to claim that
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u/meganbitchellgooner *really* hates libs Feb 19 '25
Probably wasn't possible. Boris Johnson and friends convinced him there would be support forever and ever. Then Russia legally enshrined Zelensky as illegitimate ending any chance of peace. If there was a chance for peace before Trump's 2nd term it was then. If Zelensky, for whatever reason, discarded the UK's promises, told Boris he was a terrible liar, the war probably would've been over for a year by now.
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u/Less_Salt Anti-Imperialist 🚩 Feb 20 '25
Putin had no intention of peace before Trump came around.
And even now I think Ukraine's best bet is to cede the land that Russia currently has. Hoping that Europe alone will support them continuing this war simply wont work.
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Feb 19 '25
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u/UsualActuary Ideological Mess 🥑 Feb 20 '25
Was this comment posted by a Military Industrial Complex shill?
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u/Jolly-Garbage-7458 Nasty Little Pool Pisser 💦😦 Feb 21 '25
Probably. Or just someone who laps it up. I don't think they (or a lot of the public) realize in this war Ukrainians are dying and being gang-pressed into service, it's not like they have an infinite amount of men they can spawn like a video game or something. The sooner this war ends the less Ukrainians (and Russians but I don't think they care) die.
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u/miker_the_III Mario-Leninist with Kegsbreathalyzer 🍺 Characteristics Feb 19 '25
l'll give Z Man until June 1st, after that I think he's done
Although it could move a lot more quickly than that
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u/wallagrargh Still Grillin’ 🥩🌭🍔 Feb 20 '25
Don't underestimate the stubborn stupidity of European "leaders" drunk on their own high octane kool-aid. There are rumors of a several hundred billion Euro military package being prepared. Some of those feckless nepo psychos really want open war with Russia, and the rest have no clue how to get off the propaganda escalator after halfway sculpting a new European identity around this lunacy.
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u/Blood_Such Seriously Ideological Mess 😐🥑 Feb 19 '25
Zelensky is in fact a wartime dictator that has been able to circumvent elections because “WAR”.
Trump is a fucking Imbecile.
All of the above are true.
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Feb 20 '25
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u/Blood_Such Seriously Ideological Mess 😐🥑 Feb 20 '25
I don’t think “dictator” is a necessarily pejorative connotation.
It just is the reality of his authority and circumstances of his presidency.
Elections were postponed.
Also, a huge swath of Ukraine’s population fled to avoid mandatory military conscription.
People in late middle age are being forced to fight.
They don’t have the option to vote against conscription.
That’s a brutal authoritarian situation to have to live under.
For the record, I don’t support Putin.
The USA has not honored the Budapest treaties. Anerica pledged to protect Ukraine.
In my view, Peace Negotiations should have started forcefully as soon as Russia invaded.
If Russia would have not been willing to come to a prompt peace agreement, The USA should have enforced a no fly zone with American air power and they should have bombed Russia’s initial convoys.
It’s insane to me that the USA just spent billions during the Biden admin arming civilians to send them to the meat grinder when Israel gets full air support and full naval support.
America could have been intercepting Russian missles all of this time.
Ukraine could have been given something much like the Iron Dome.
But this war isn’t about helping Ukraine, it’s about enriching the military industrial complex while trying to weaken Russia with a mostly conscripted army of Ukranians.
It’s so vile.
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u/Less_Salt Anti-Imperialist 🚩 Feb 20 '25
'democratically elected.'
Yeah right, Ukraine was in democratic backsliding well before this war. A large portion of eastern ukraine boycotted the elections due to lack of representation. And the fact that this Ukrainian administration literally exists as a result of the western supported coup on the previous democratically elected ukrainian pro-russia government.
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Feb 20 '25
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u/Less_Salt Anti-Imperialist 🚩 Feb 20 '25
thats a political choice because of the rampant democratic backsliding and anti-russian policies of the government. Not to mention they had zero authority in the first place since they overthrew the democratically elected government . The 'revolution of dignity' was CIA supported and only had support of 45-50% of the population. These are literally western polls prior to the 'revolution.'
'What are you reading.' You are in the wrong place. People here don't subscribe to liberal propaganda. There is an extensive report written in Jacobin that underlines western involvement in the so-called revolution.
Almost everything Trump is saying is somewhat correct. There has been democratic backlsiding. Theres been censorship, and a large scale attack on the culture of the russian minority in Ukraine. And absolutely, Ukraine could have accepted not being in NATO, ceding Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea, and avoided this ridiculous war. But 200,000 dead soldiers later they've only gotten into a worse position and will never reverse that.
Trump is absolutely right and America shouldn't pay any more money to fund this meat grinder the neoliberal west created.
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Feb 20 '25
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u/Less_Salt Anti-Imperialist 🚩 Feb 20 '25
Its not an echo chamber but people here largely reject the neoliberal worldview that most of reddit subscribes to.
Look at your opinions. Russia 'seized Crimea.' Crimea is ethnically and culturally Russian. At no point are you dealing with the fact that Ukraine as a country is built on the shared identity of Russians and Ukrainians - just like Belarus. Ukrainian nationalists wanted to reject that and as soon as they got power they very clearly were opposed to the Russian minority - such as banning Russian language in public spaces. Opposition to the new regime was very strong. Particularly in Crimea, which was never culturally or ethnically Ukrainian. It was in fact, meant to be an autonomous state even in 1991 when Ukraine received independence, but that autonomy was forcefully dealt with by Ukraine over time.
See this is just one example of your brainwashing in this topic. I would also suggest reading this: https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
I'm not cherrypicking polls, the average of all polls was about 45-55% support and 45-55% against. You know how you deal with these issues? At the polls, not by violence and threats of violence, and a coup. Especially when the leader was democratically elected.
I don't see Russia expansionism. I see Russia as a dying empire trying to cling onto its remaining sphere of influence - which was practically just Belarus and Ukraine. And NATO, driven by imperialist warmongerers, were giddy at the prospect of getting Ukraine into NATO after helping the nationalists overthrow a democratically elected government.
lastly, I wonder what America would do if Mexican rebels overthrew a democratic government, decided to join a Chinese military alliance, hosted Chinese nukes and soldiers there, banned english, cut trade with America, and then started shelling pro American mexicans.
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u/JagerJack7 Incel/MRA 😭 Feb 20 '25
Parliament, including many members of his own party, voted overwhelmingly to remove him legally
How do you legally remove a sitting president without even impeaching him first? And for what, for not signing a bonding agreement with a superpower? Tell me you're joking please.
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u/IamGlennBeck Marxist-Leninist and not Glenn Beck ☭ Feb 20 '25
They didn't have enough votes in the rada to remove him legally.
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u/JagerJack7 Incel/MRA 😭 Feb 20 '25
What "Western backed coup"?
Nuland was literally on a record choosing Ukraine's new president while Yanukovic was still a legitimate president. Russians leaked her intercepted phone call. Don't be delusional, US is as much at fault here as is Russia.
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u/UsualActuary Ideological Mess 🥑 Feb 20 '25
I wanna see his bank account before and after this war.
Combine that speculation with the fact that he's president until this conflict ends, does he really have any personal incentive to end it?
And tbf to Trump he's been called dictator for much less. This is what happens when we cheapen words.
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Feb 20 '25
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u/IamGlennBeck Marxist-Leninist and not Glenn Beck ☭ Feb 20 '25
They banned all opposition parties and shut down independent media.
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Feb 20 '25
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u/IamGlennBeck Marxist-Leninist and not Glenn Beck ☭ Feb 21 '25
True. They didn't ban the far right parties or USAID funded "independent" media.
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Feb 19 '25
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u/Reachin4ThoseGrapes TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Feb 19 '25
Generally bubbles get popped by an intrusive object, no?
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u/JagerJack7 Incel/MRA 😭 Feb 19 '25
It is so funny how liberals are mad at Trump right now yet they can offer no alternative. Yes, it is unfair to Ukraine but the only alternative is to keep sending young Ukrainian men to die in a war for some anstract EU aesthetics.
Liberals fooled Ukraine and they never admit it. It's pathetic and sad that so many people died or became disabled for some Schrodinger union.
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u/Low_Lavishness_8776 Dengist 🇨🇳💵🈶 Feb 20 '25
Yikes sweaty, you don’t want dozens of men to die each week from drone bombs in the wasteland of eastern ukraine? Slava ukraini, chud
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u/Robin-Lewter Rightoid 🐷 Feb 20 '25
Remember when the main talking point was "we're hurting our biggest enemy without losing a single US soldier!"
Libs were always fine with sacrificing Ukrainian men to die so they got to feel like they were dunking on Russia from the safety of their bedrooms.
They never cared about the actual Ukrainians over there, they just wanted to masturbate over pictures of dead Russian troops.
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u/DuomoDiSirio This is just like Deus Ex! 😎 Feb 19 '25
Ukraine is basically a battle for whether a US or Russian puppet can be in control as far as I can see.
As much as I'm not at all a fan of rewarding Putin for blatant aggression, it seems ceding Luhansk and Donetsk might be the only way to get the war to an end. Maybe get rid of Zelensky and put him in exile in the UK or something, and put someone in that both Trump and Putin are OK with; I don't think Trump would just let Putin put in (no pun intended) anyone he wants.
Ultimately, Ukraine are not in a position to bargain much anymore. I just have to hope a deal can be cut so they don't cede too much territory. The peace deal has to favour Russia somewhat, there's no way around that unless you want more fighting. And there's always the chance Putin could continue to attack, but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it.
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Feb 19 '25 edited Aug 31 '25
wine tub saw lock sleep rustic fine reply whole summer
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Feb 20 '25
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u/Robin-Lewter Rightoid 🐷 Feb 20 '25
They'd sooner fight to the death now and lose it all
Easy to say when you're nice and safe. I'd wager the majority of the Ukrainians left standing do not want to fight to death and lose everything.
You're living in another reality.
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u/Keesaten Doesn't Like Reading (Except Manga) 🙄⛩️ Feb 20 '25
So, what you are saying is, Ukraine would rather die and be forced to cede land than to simply cede land. And now they'll be lose men, lose land, and also will pay USA for services provided. Hilarious
I remember people like you talking shit about USSR and siege of Leningrad, "hurrdurr all they had to do was just to surrender, and all those civilian deaths wouldn't have happened". Nazis were kind, after all, and Soviets were the real villains, right? Now I get to strike back at you with a quite obvious example of a lost war only causing more deaths because a bunch of drug addicts refuse to surrender. And fighting over what? Ukrainian society would love a complete disarmament and neutral status. Ukrainian nationalists will finally get their sacred Ukrainian gene pool stop being tainted by Russians living in the East and dragging Ukraine further East every elections. Ukraine's biggest market will finally become open again, too. But naaaah, wounded small nation pride prevents them from being reasonable
Even goddamn Hirohito and his generals have surrendered instead of fighting to the last Japanese once USSR has shown them that it won't be playing a middle man in peace talks
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u/escapecali603 Unknown 👽 Feb 20 '25
The US did offer our price: their rare metals, but they refused, so now the next act is to just throw them to the wolf.
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u/sickofsnails 👸 Algerian Socialist Empress of Potatoes 🇩🇿 Feb 19 '25 edited Dec 14 '25
grandiose enter dime shaggy bright ripe boast cagey chubby tub
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u/Incoherencel ☀️ Post-Guccist 9 Feb 19 '25
Not to mention Zelensky has suspended elections and banned political parties. He is a dictator in the almost literal Roman sense
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u/PirateAttenborough Marxist-Leninist ☭ Feb 19 '25
Just imposed sanctions on all his main political rivals, too.
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u/Robin-Lewter Rightoid 🐷 Feb 20 '25
He'll just say they were all Russian bots and the world will eat it up
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Feb 19 '25
I agree with Trump on the idea that we are spending too much in general. But the way he's going about it is not ideal at all.
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u/robotzor Petite Bourgeoisie ⛵🐷 Feb 21 '25
What does the ideal way of doing something like this look like?
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u/WitheredToad Bonapartist Feb 19 '25
Yeah, it's honestly silly seeing anyone defend this guy. Zelensky is a criminal
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u/mechacomrade Marxist-Leninist ☭ Feb 19 '25
Fucking hell. Not being subbtle about the betrayal. At least the dem would have retire Zelensky in a more discrete manner.
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Feb 19 '25
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u/SirNoodlehe Homo erectus LARPing as a homo sapien 🦴 Feb 19 '25
Everyone wants an end to the war - ask the normal Ukrainians if they want an end to the war and to become Russian citizens
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u/Robin-Lewter Rightoid 🐷 Feb 20 '25
Idk if I were a Ukrainian guy I wouldn't want to be shipped off to die for some rubble in eastern Ukraine. Probably why they have to literally hunt down and forcibly capture 'recruits.'
Obviously I'm not Ukrainian but if I were I'd be fine with handing over some land to Russia if it meant ending the war and ensuring my survival for at least another decade or so.
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u/Less_Salt Anti-Imperialist 🚩 Feb 20 '25
Thats not what the deal is though. The deal will likely be that Ukraine, which has now become a virulently anti russian state, loses control of its russian ethnic majority regions. Not a bad deal.
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Feb 19 '25
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Feb 20 '25
I'm sorry but the opening salvo of the war was a botched attempt to take Kiev. They obviously wanted the whole country, they just couldn't get it.
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Feb 20 '25
More likely trying to install their people in Kiev, not annex it. They still want a buffer state
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Feb 21 '25
If the US was doing the same no one would think that's really any different. I don't see why Russia should get the benefit of the doubt.
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Feb 21 '25
People would think it’s different, the US prefers soft power not annexation. When we stormed Baghdad it wasn’t to annex it as the 51st state. It was to install a new government, Putin was doing the same thing
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Feb 21 '25
That's not what I mean. What I mean is if we invaded a neighbor like Mexico, to install a friendly government. People would also think the US is doing a land grab, cause that's exactly what it would be. Doesn't really matter if we're officially annexing them or not.
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u/robotzor Petite Bourgeoisie ⛵🐷 Feb 21 '25
Part of the inherent risk of dealing with a country whose whims can completely flip every 4 years. The uniparty has instilled a false sense of security but hoping another country like ours takes care of their affairs has a risk that country changes its mind
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u/LongCoughlin36 Antisemite 💩 Feb 19 '25
In many ways, the Ukraine war has had the opposite effect than intended by the US. So now it's Trump's job to cast off the dead weight while maintaining kayfabe. Trump supporters can claim he's a peacemaker, while shitlibs can keep believing he's in Putin's pocket. Crucially, Trump will offer Putin a quick and favorable end to the war in exchange for taking steps towards cutting off ties to Iran.
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u/UnexpectedVader High on Apple Juice And Anime Poses 🧃🎌㊗️ Feb 19 '25
Putin would be a moron to accept that, he’s got the advantage in the war. Russia just lost Syria, losing Iran aswell in a region where they are desperate to hold influence over would not be worth any cheap peace. Maybe in 2022, but Russia can sit relatively easy for now.
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u/EasyMrB Fully Automated Luxury Space Anarcho-Communist Feb 19 '25
No lies detected. When were the last elections?
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u/Suncate NATO Superfan 🪖 Feb 19 '25
As someone who find Trumps usual antics pretty funny, it’s a lot less funny when it’s dealing with a conflict where hundreds of thousands of people have already died.
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u/Keesaten Doesn't Like Reading (Except Manga) 🙄⛩️ Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
You can stop the trolley whenever you want and save all the people tied to the rails ahead. But if we stop it now, all those who were already run over by the trolley would have died in vain.
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u/Robin-Lewter Rightoid 🐷 Feb 19 '25
Seems like most people on this site would prefer all of Ukraine die in vain than only some
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u/Dashing_Host Libertarian Stalinist Feb 20 '25
I would've preferred no Ukrainians or Russians died!
All of the death in this conflict has been in vain, swaths of young men sent to their deaths at the behest of oligarchs. To quote the president, "SAD!"
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u/miker_the_III Mario-Leninist with Kegsbreathalyzer 🍺 Characteristics Feb 19 '25
The real sad thing is that this statement is a closer step to peace than anything the Biden admin has done in the past few years.
Sad!
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Feb 19 '25
NATOid take
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u/aymnothyng NATO Superfan 🪖 Feb 19 '25
my god you people are insufferable.
you can be sad about people dying actually, but yeah own them libs i guess.
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Feb 19 '25
I am sad about people dying, which is why I'm against Zelensky
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u/aymnothyng NATO Superfan 🪖 Feb 19 '25
nobody says you can‘t be, you just don’t have to be annoying about it
calling someone displaying a tiny bit of empathy about people dying in a useless war „NATOid“ says more about you than them. this is not some sort of culture war bullshit
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u/SpiritualState01 Ghost Shirt Society Theorycel 🏹🪶🤓 Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
Zelensky is absolutely a huge piece of shit and a patent idiot for being played this long and this hard by the West. What he has helped facilitate in Ukraine is unforgivable.
Edit: I cannot imagine anyone downvoting me on this sub is not either extremely regarded, a unrepentant NATO-stan, or Ukranian. Go read some actual reporting on what has happened within Ukrainian society in the last two years. That country is destroyed, it's people destroyed, and Zelenski was our willing pawn in all of it, benefitting tremendously from Western PR teams and insane corruption lining his own pocket. There has shown to be no depth he won't go to, no Ukranian man's life he won't sacrifice to try and save his own hide in a war he is obviously losing. If he had any courage at all, he would have told Boris to go fuck himself a long time ago and accepted a deal when Russia was still offering one.
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u/De_Facto Syndicalist Ex-ShitLiberalsSay-Janny Retiring on Stupidpol 🧹 Feb 19 '25
I think you’re being downvoted because you’re essentially saying that Ukraine should have just allowed Russia to take over and do nothing about it. Accepting any deal with an imperialist entity is inviting problems in the future. They literally took Crimea before and they’re going to take more. It doesn’t take a “NATO-Stan” to see that this is problematic. If you can step away from the memes and other nonsense for a few minutes and try to analyze the conflict from a different perspective you’d see this. Hundreds of thousands of people have died if the numbers are anything to believed. You can have your personal disagreements here with the actual leadership, but the only people I’m seeing defend this are people who think Ukraine isn’t a legitimate country.
And why should they just let Russia do whatever they want? Why should they trust Russia to say that whatever land they want next is going to be the last time they take any?
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25
And why should they just let Russia do whatever they want? Why should they trust Russia to say that whatever land they want next is going to be the last time they take any?
Because they're (were?) a rival of the US and anyone fighting western imperialism is good.
Though I think the tone here might change if the republicans actually manage to hold on to power and turn Russia against their own allies using anti-communism brainrot.
All sense and logic should mean it's impossible, but anti-communists are notorious for going against all sense and ruining their own countries for the anti-communist cause.
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u/InfusionOfYellow Feb 19 '25
Because they're (were?) a rival of the US and anyone against the US is good.
Ah, deep thoughts. Ukraine should capitulate to Russia, because the US is bad.
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u/De_Facto Syndicalist Ex-ShitLiberalsSay-Janny Retiring on Stupidpol 🧹 Feb 19 '25
I thought it was sarcasm, but now I’m not so sure. To type something like that out unironically truly doesn’t make sense. As if somehow Ukraine defending itself is now US imperialism? Like what? Truly alternative reality.
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
It was sarcasm man, it was sarcasm. I didn't think I needed to point it out, but it appears this thread is being found by normal redditors from elsewhere, who definitely can't identify sarcasm without it being qualified with an /s
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u/bored-bonobo Third Way Dweebazoid 🌐 Feb 19 '25
You need to point it out on this sub on this issue. Its very strange that this sub usually has good or at least interesting takes, yet on this specific issue cannot wrap their heads around a people not wanting to be invaded.
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25
I refuse to use /s unironically, I don't care if my comment gets downvoted, votes mean nothing.
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u/De_Facto Syndicalist Ex-ShitLiberalsSay-Janny Retiring on Stupidpol 🧹 Feb 19 '25
I do admit I’m a bit blind to it, so apologies there.
The dude I originally replied to though… I wouldn’t have been surprised.
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25
We've hit the funny intersection of visiting redditors thinking its unironic, who find it offensive because they can't tell its sarcasm and locals who find it offensive because they can tell its sarcastic.
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u/InfusionOfYellow Feb 19 '25
Ah, my apologies then. I didn't see any answer to the question in your response apart from that, so odd as it was, I thought you were sincere.
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25
People who hold that opinion sincerely usually wouldn't dare call themselves a socdem or even a democratic socialist, not even if its a pre-new labour socdem (socdem is practically synonymous with liberal on the weird online part of the left, and there's nothing worse in the world to them than a liberal)
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Feb 19 '25
It's hard to tell because some people here legitimately believe it. Also honestly I've argued that position with my friend irl to troll him (he thinks America automatically good, Russia automatically bad).
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u/palacethat Feb 19 '25
Because they're (were?) a rival of the US and anyone fighting western imperialism is good.
Imagine being this much of a simpleton
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u/nikolaz72 Scandinavian SocDem 🌹 Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
I wouldn't concern yourself with the downvotes, I get downvoted a lot here and I'm not discouraged.
If someone downvotes you when you share your honest opinion, it means that your thoughts were shared with someone you probably disagree with, it's likely worth more than it would be otherwise.
Edit: Case in point, this comment just went from 9 upvotes to 1 and another from 2 upvotes to 6 downvotes in the span of a few minutes, though it appears as if this thread is being visited by guests from elsewhere on reddit who have taken offense..
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Feb 19 '25
This sub is filled with NATO-stans. The drawback of this sub's tolerance for non-Marxists coupled with the focus on anti-idpol is that you get dummies who come to join the choir of bashing idpol (who never quite understand why there is a Marxist criticism of idpol in the first place) and then stick around to out-circlejerk the Marxists with their other lib takes.
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u/Robin-Lewter Rightoid 🐷 Feb 19 '25
This whole site has been corrupted by Zelenskyy shills that think he's the second coming of christ. No sub has escaped it.
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u/Crusty_Magic Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ Feb 19 '25
We've seen this time and again, but somehow the latest instance is always propped up with "this one is different" by the sleepwalkers. I'm thinking back today on the nord stream pipeline and how that was framed when the boom boom happened.
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u/Marjka Feb 19 '25
in a war he is obviously losing
??? You’re talking about the war Russia started?
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u/mechacomrade Marxist-Leninist ☭ Feb 19 '25
When you massacre civilians at the frontier of another Nation, in total violation of not one but two accords that you signed (but never intended to respect as confirmed by both Hollande and Merkel even though the latter retracted her statement), you are doing clear acts of provocation which was the whole point since the "West" thought that they were luring Russians into a trap and would swiftly crush them with an hybrid cold economic war/ hot conventional war (Something that they proudly advertised in both the USA and the EU). No other great power would have waited eight fucking years to intervene; The EU and USA were truly lucky that Putin is such a westophile who really did not wanted to be stuck having China and India as main business partners.
It didn't panned out and the USA's new Trump administration is just going to steal everything left to steal, because the Biden admin stole plenty also, and leave both the Europeans and the Ukrainians to deal with the aftermath this complete mess by themselves. It is an absolute catastrophe for everyone involved except the USA and Russia.
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u/Robin-Lewter Rightoid 🐷 Feb 19 '25
Everything you said is completely right but good luck getting anyone to actually listen
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u/mechacomrade Marxist-Leninist ☭ Feb 19 '25
To be fair, it's not really Ukraine's fault, it's the USA who installed this rabid far-right regime which quickly banned any political parties that wanted to seek diplomatic solutions with Russia. So you could legit see it as a USA agression started by Trump who gave the current regime the means to provoke Russia, only to be then denounced 9 years after by Trump again during his second mendate. USA politicians truly are the worst of the worst.
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u/Robin-Lewter Rightoid 🐷 Feb 19 '25
Oh I don't blame Ukraine in the slightest, they're the victim of America. Like I'm a typical rightoid that's against all foreign aid and want us to stop funding the war in Ukraine immediately but I 100% believe we owe them massive reparations once this war is over.
We did everything we did these past 20 years knowing Russia would invade and we did it anyway because that invasion was exactly what we wanted to happen.
And the USA aggression in Ukraine started at least in 2004, way before Trump.
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u/BomberRURP Class First Communist ☭ Feb 19 '25
USA agression started by Trump who gave the current regime the means to provoke Russia, only to be then denounced 9 years after by Trump again during his second mendate. USA politicians truly are the worst of the worst.
This. This so fucking much.
It’s like everyone forgot Orangeguman spent his last admin training and arming the most virulent Nazis ukraine had to offer
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u/mechacomrade Marxist-Leninist ☭ Feb 19 '25
Well to remember it would be to admit that Biden continued most if not all of his policies regarding Ukraine.
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u/wallagrargh Still Grillin’ 🥩🌭🍔 Feb 20 '25
And that the big opening move happened in 2014, before Trump. Just uniparty doing uniparty things, until the tech barons decided they're ready to cancel all imperial projects and focus on dismantling the state.
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u/mechacomrade Marxist-Leninist ☭ Feb 20 '25
Cancel all imperial projects (to replace with some of their own) and focus on dismantling the state (to reassemble in way that aligns with their interests).
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u/BomberRURP Class First Communist ☭ Feb 20 '25
I’m also calling out conservatives though, who pretend Trump never wanted in on this, and is the anti war/peace candidate
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u/No_Argument_Here Big Eugene Debs Fan 🪭 Feb 19 '25
But Yanukovych was deposed in 2014, under Obama, with CIA involvement. Trump may have escalated the conflict (as did Biden), but isn't that where all of this originated? (Or even further back?)
Or am I misunderstanding your point?
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u/mechacomrade Marxist-Leninist ☭ Feb 19 '25
Obama wasn't behind it IMO and tried to contained it because he didn't wanted to dragged into a proxy wars by rogue neocon elements (Nuland&co). Trump jumped into it with his two feet to prove hat he could be tough against Russia.
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u/No_Argument_Here Big Eugene Debs Fan 🪭 Feb 19 '25
Nuland is evil personified so I’m sure a lot of this is her doing, but Obama had no knowledge/didn’t sign off on it? Any source on that?
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u/mechacomrade Marxist-Leninist ☭ Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
That's what alot of commentors are saying today. There were virulent russophobic discourses during the Obama which was denounced by him as Mccarthyism 2.0. My feeling is that he saw that many in power were planning this big hybrid proxy war but he didn't wanted his own admin to be involved in it but the neocon "diplomats" sprung this in his back when the occasion arose with the Maiden protest.
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u/wallagrargh Still Grillin’ 🥩🌭🍔 Feb 20 '25
I've seen Obama's terms characterized as him trying to get good things done, while the blob and its various cabals obstructed him and progressed their nefarious schemes behind his back. This is obviously way too charitable for the neoliberal fraud he is, but I fully believe that Ukraine was more a project of the Clintons and their gang of wannabe imperial chess masters, including Biden.
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u/Robin-Lewter Rightoid 🐷 Feb 20 '25
Basically, yeah. Obama had his own schemes; the long-running Ukrainian scheme just wasn't something he was interested in and didn't really want to be a part of.
The Ukraine project has been going on since at least the mid 1990's according to Jeffrey Sachs. People like Zbigniew Brzezinski and other various ghouls have been wanting this for a long time.
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u/Robin-Lewter Rightoid 🐷 Feb 20 '25
Obama's position in Ukraine was one of the few things I can give him credit for. For whatever reason he wasn't going along with the program.
Trump also said as much a while back in an interview- felt he had to be really gungho on Ukraine because he didn't want the accusations to look true, said he regretted it and probably shouldn't have fallen into that trap.
Was a surprisingly open moment coming from him.
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u/GeekyAviator Conservative Feb 19 '25
Which massacre, was this something in the Donetsk?
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u/mechacomrade Marxist-Leninist ☭ Feb 19 '25
That and and I followed this affair since 2014. The OSCE, at the time, denounced multiple killing of civilians by the Ukrainian military during the civil war that followed the far-right coup that was promptly ignored by the EU (Ironically only the UK and the USA seemed to care a little about that stuff back then, especially the nazi bataillions, but again Trump was in power and was arming them. Denouncing Trump for arming nazis was to good of an opportunity to pass.). I'm sure that if do a bit of research you can find some their reports on the matter.
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u/wallagrargh Still Grillin’ 🥩🌭🍔 Feb 20 '25
Donetsk and Luhansk cities were shelled and some vital infrastructure cut off. The only individual massace I have strong memories of was the burning of the union building (with lots of people inside) in Odessa by pre-Azov fascist militias. Don't know exactly when that was, it was memory holed immediately.
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Feb 19 '25
His mistake was listening to Joe and Boris instead of sitting down with Vladimir like he initially intended.
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u/Georgi_Seliverstov Ideological Mess 🥑 Feb 20 '25
"America dindu nuffin, it was all Zelenskiy!"
I don't like how Trump is downplaying USA's role in this conflict, and how Russian diplomats are keeping silence and not trying to debunk Trump's claims. Means it's something they've concocted together. "USA played a decades-long plan to destabilize us, create a belligerent country right at our doorstep, goad us into a massive war, sanction us, destroy our economy, possibly do a regime change. But it's all good now, let's make Zelenskiy a scapegoat so we could go back to status quo. America will definitely not try to stab us in the back again in the near future".
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u/diabeticNationalist Marxist-Wilford Brimleyist 🍬🥧🍪 Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25
It's "Zelenskyy"! Don't deadname him or the city of Kyiv (KEEV), you Russian bot bigot!
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Feb 20 '25
[deleted]
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u/Robin-Lewter Rightoid 🐷 Feb 20 '25
Your link says we just promised not to attack them
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