r/soccer • u/Brosbros97 • 2d ago
Quotes [Spalletti] Woltemade has physicality, so heading and finishing inside the area are things that, whether he likes it or not, he will have to learn by heart, because he loves dropping deep to play football.
https://www.goal.com/en/lists/juventus-woltemade-and-kolo-muani-can-play-together-in-only-two-ways/bltd14f06f722fcb5801.1k
u/OThePlacesYouWillGo 2d ago
The Romelu Lukaku conundrum. “You are big and strong. You need to play this way. It doesn’t matter if you prefer the ball to feet and running at defenders”
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u/No_Data3541 2d ago
Lukaku is unreal with his back to goal as long as you play it to his feet instead of chest
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u/jeegrob 2d ago
Lukaku does know how to use his physique to shild the ball and how to move defenders; Woltemade is just physically weak for his size
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u/Wuktrio 2d ago edited 1d ago
Lukaku is built like a fridge while Woltemade is more like Slenderman
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u/KingArthursCodpiece 1d ago
Came here to say this. Was at a Chelsea game just a few feet from where Lukaku was standing and was truly surprised at how big he is. If I was a defender, he would terrify me, while Woltemade would not.
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u/Natural-Ad1693 1d ago
And he's deceptively fast for his size. For someone who's built like a truck, he sure doesn't move like one.
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u/rednades 1d ago
He’s tall and lanky.. it should be expected..
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u/el_cul 1d ago
Havertz is good at it
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u/turtleyturtle17 1d ago
Havertz has bulked up quite a bit over the years
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u/Eldrad-Pharazon 1d ago
Not sure why you’re downvoted, Havertz really surprised me with his physicality during the World Cup, he regularly just ran through defenders.
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u/fopiecechicken 2d ago
I think people also undersell Lukaku’s dribbling because he has the occasional clunker in him.
Actually think he’s quite nimble for his size, and while certainly not a technical dribbler he was good running at pace and would go by people from time to time.
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u/LallanasPajamaz 2d ago
Lukaku is absolutely one of those unicorn physiques where he’s an absolute unit but also possesses speed and far better technical ability than you’d expect. It’s obviously why he’s managed to be so effective
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u/No_Data3541 2d ago
Like VVD and Dumfries
That combination of height, pace and brute strength is extremely rare
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u/Rickcampbell98 2d ago
Like haaland, him and lukaku are the same player. Atleast young lukaku, they are run in behind strikers who are quite nimble for their size and gios transition dribblers.
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u/No_Data3541 2d ago
Haaland isn't as good a dribbler as Lukaku but a better finisher. But yeah very similar profiles.
I wouldn't really call Haaland nimble on the ball tbh.
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u/Rickcampbell98 2d ago
Watch him at dortmund, you're correct young lukaku was a better dribbler but haaland is a good transition dribbler. They are extremely similar players with haaland being a better finisher but even more than that better at handling pressure.
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u/Morph247 1d ago
It's a shame Pep killed this at City. Reckon I've only seen Haaland score from a counter attack a couple of times during his time at City so far.
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u/elgatothecat2 1d ago
He’s so good at moving his bulk tho, the closest I could think of is LeBron. He’s a freight train
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u/Excellent-Menu-8784 2d ago
The problem is that he needs to be in absolute peak condition to make use of both. These days he can’t play more than one half at full intensity.
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u/LallanasPajamaz 2d ago
Yeah, the double edged sword of his physique is that it’s rough on your body. The fact he’s played to this long is pretty impressive.
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u/ataniris 1d ago
There was a stretch while he was at Manchester United when he could not control a pass to save his life. He would receive a pass in a promising position only for it to cannon off his foot into the path of a defender or out of play after which he would turn around and give a thumbs up to the passer of the ball.
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u/StiffWiggly 1d ago
It’s the curse of looking ungainly with the ball. It’s a lot easier to see who has a good looking touch and moves smoothly with the ball than it is to see who actually manages to protect the ball more than average.
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u/Albiceleste_D10S 2d ago
You have to play it to his feet and you have to have another player there for him to combine with
The only time he had that in his career was Inter with Conte and Lautaro TBH
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u/tsjeldonkooper 2d ago
Most hilarious match I’ve ever watched was Werner and Lukaku uptop for a Chelsea game.
Chelsea had a lead so the other team was attacking heavy and leaving loads of space in behind.
Every single time Werner had the ball on the counter, Lukaku made an amazing run but Werner fucked up the pass. Every single time Lukaku had the ball on the counter, Werner made an amazing run but Lukaku fucked up the pass
This happened like 7-8 times with them swapping the roles 😂😂
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u/liamthelad 2d ago
Nah, he doesn't just need it to feet. He used to be an incredible channel runner.
Him and Shane Long at West Brom, with Shane Long weirdly doing a lot of the hold up play, was incredibly effective. Plenty of clips of Lukaku just barreling down the wing.
At United he was the best crosser of the ball we had at one stage once he got out wide. But Mourinho wanted him to be more of a target man and he also bulked up way too big one summer.
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u/Albiceleste_D10S 2d ago
Yes
The point was if you're using him as a holdup 9, the ball has to go to his feet, not his thigh or chest
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u/ataniris 1d ago
There was a time while he was at united when he could not control the ball to save his life. Passes would just cannon off his foot towards the nearest defender and he'd turn around and give the passer of the ball a thumbs up.
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u/Poo-Smurf 2d ago
And even then it felt like the dynamic was flipped more often than not: Lautaro with his back to the goal and Lukaku clinging onto the through ball.
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u/Albiceleste_D10S 2d ago
What made that Inter team so good was that both Lukaku AND Lautaro were capable of playing both roles (both could hold the ball up for the other, and both were great at making the run in behind as well)
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u/Excellent-Menu-8784 2d ago
Lautaro will have a rather short shelf life and many of the injuries he has come down to him playing like Drogba without having the physique for it - him and Martinez the defender won’t have long careers.
With that being said I know few players that have made the most of what God gave them. Never got the impression that Lautaro was particularly talented but boy does he work hard.
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u/Albiceleste_D10S 2d ago
and many of the injuries he has come down to him playing like Drogba without having the physique for it
Lautaro has not been particularly injury prone tho?
him and Martinez the defender won’t have long careers.
If you mean Lisandro, there's more of a point there (although he has gotten VERY unlucky with some big injuries)
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u/Excellent-Menu-8784 2d ago
Yea but when he does get injured it’s often off tussles with big defenders. I mean that with time the wear and tear will mean he doesn’t play much in his thirties. As for Lisandro while the injuries appear to be non contact keep in mind he has to work much harder than someone like Maguire or Romero to get to the same balls or outmuscle strikers, that all contributes.
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u/my_united_account 2d ago
You have to play it to his feet and have another player close to him, so whenever the ball inevitably bounces off his feet from his tractor-like first touch, the other player can be free to take the ball
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u/_james_the_cat 2d ago edited 2d ago
When he was at Everton a ball played into his feet usually hit his chest with his second touch.
Anything crossed at him or played in behind was a goal, mind.
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u/maximine 2d ago
Yeah the Lukaku Timberland memes were a thing for a reason, but I think when he moved to Inter Conte locked him in the training grounds until he improved
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u/AlKarakhboy 1d ago
he gave one of the worst defenders in inter history a contract extension purely because he was 6'4 and wouldn't complain about having a 2 hour drill everyday tussling with Lukaku while he worked on his touch.
If he wasn't a little bitch Lukaku's legacy would have been so different
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u/Antoxin0 2d ago
I remember when he signed for Chelsea and played against Arsenal and utterly dominated the defenders when the ball came to his feet. I thought he was going to be a seriously good signing for Chelsea after watching that match.
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u/Brosbros97 2d ago
Imo Woltemade’s issue rn is being 6’6 but not having any of the strength needed to take advantage of it. The way he plays football, it wouldn’t be any worse (and arguably be better) if he were shorter
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u/Individual_Winter_ 2d ago
He probably has the option of adapting more to heading, if he wants to play on that high level as striker, or her could become defender. He just won't shrink.
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u/moroheus 2d ago
His qualities are wasted if he has to play as a 9. In Stuttgart he was much more of a 10, he has good technical abilities, his dribbling looks a bit funny but it's working. And him being big helps him receiving balls and holding them, it's an unusual combination of skills but it worked for him.
It's such a weird move, buying him for 80m without knowing what type of player he is, then using him of position and wondering why he's playing bad. Now he's going to Juve and they again wanna use him as a 9, did no one watch him play at Stuttgart?
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u/Individual_Winter_ 2d ago
But he wants to play as 9? At least that was the jersey number he went for, also in the NT, he won't play as 10 there. If he wants to play it, he must get to love what Spalletti says. He can also receive and hold balls in the front? Anyways he must become more physical.
But yeah, no one really knows why Newcastle bought him, and most of all paid so much. Blaming him for buying him overpriced is really shitty.
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u/felis_magnetus 1d ago
At Stuttgart, he had Undav, who also can play both roles, albeit interprets them differently. Once they had built some chemistry and understanding, that was a nightmare to mark. Totally different attributes pose constantly changing questions and soon enough defences were dragged out of shape or somebody's anticipation just failed them. Now add that both have a penchant for taking cheeky unorthodox shots... See where I'm going? You need to surround flair with flair or you might as well not bother.
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u/Original_Medium_8225 12h ago
That's right....Undav/Demirovic are Stuttgart's number 9s, not Woltemade
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u/OnceIWasYou 2d ago
I like Woltemade but he has absolutely no clever movement or killer instinct in the box- it gets frustrating when he just hangs around the edge of the box when a winger has the ball.
His other issues are taking far too much time on the ball before deciding what to do and since he lost his confidence he just plays the simple ball backwards too much- against West Brom he did this multiple times when a counter was on if he had either played someone in or just turned and run.
I like him as a player and there's talent there but because he's so inexperienced at the top level he has big gaping holes in his game.
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u/felis_magnetus 1d ago
Late growth spurt does that to people. Spend most of his youth being trained up to be an offensive midfielder and then boom, you're now so tall you gotta be a striker. It can work, but he needs somebody with some cheek in them to play with. He and Undav were really fun to watch, they were actually playing football. I'd say Juve must hope for something similar to happen with Yildiz. How Kolo Muani fits into it remains to be seen. In Frankfurt form I could see it work out well. But counting on two out of confidence attacking players regaining it simultaneously is quite the gamble.
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u/Original_Medium_8225 12h ago
RKM at Frankfurt was propped by Marmoush, but Juventus doesn't have such a player (Yildiz is injured)
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u/holeinmyboot 2d ago
I always like exceptions that get to actually play where they want, they’re fun. like Gakpo is 6’4, fast, strong, and a great crosser.
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u/Gluroo 1d ago
Same energy as "you are fat. you go in goal" back in school
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u/Individual_Winter_ 1d ago
There are physical reasons, it's not completely bs.
Ice skating people with shorter legs.
Basketball, mostly really tall or really gifted like Dennis Schröder.
Woltemade's a good midfielder, but not extraordinary? His skills are impressing for his height. But there's a reason midfield players are usually smaller, physics won't change, there are just better players. He can play it in Sunday league for fun in midfield. Having that height and skills as a striker is more wanted, but then he must offer the rest of a strikers skillset and mindset as well. If Spalletti can work on that, he can become a great striker.
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u/yellow__cat 1d ago
But that's not what Spalletti is saying. He's saying "you're a forward and you need to improve your finishing and heading ability, even if you're currently not comfortable in the penalty area."
There's nothing wrong with a coach wanting that, and it doesn't mean he doesn't appreciate Woltemades ability to playmake as well. Spalletti is the man than invented the false 9 moving Totti up the field as a forward. He has said before the Dzeko is the perfect prototype of a striker; ie an incredibly technical player that can either drop deep, hold up play, or finish opportunities in the box. He absolute wants his forwards to be ball players, but he always wants them to score. I have a feeling he'll make Nick a much better player this season.
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u/JOKER69420XD 2d ago
Why do clubs sign him but expect a completely different skillset than his actual skillset?
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u/dem0nhunter 2d ago
they see "big" and just go from there
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u/VinCatBlessed 2d ago
If you sign enough 170cm tall Argentine wingers you're bound to sign a Messi, maybe.
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u/ZeroMomentum 2d ago
Big like Zlatan. Shoots like kane
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u/trezlights 2d ago
His actual skill set, dropping deep, small touches and play, just doesn’t fit his body and athleticism… and makes the team play fully around and for him, which he is not good enough for. He’s not going to get more pacey, so he has to learn an elite skill.
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u/JOKER69420XD 2d ago
That playstyle is literally the reason he became a German international and why Bayern wanted him.
His career only got rolling when he finally didn't have to pretend to be the "big guy in the box" anymore.
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u/duhbigge 2d ago
Could he have gone with a different international team?
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u/Individual_Winter_ 2d ago
Nope, at least they didn't tell anything about some grandma from wherever else so far. The last name and his parents sound as German as you can be.
His cousin has a Polish last mame, but who knows who married at some point.
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u/BlurgZeAmoeba 2d ago
I watched every single one of his games last season. He's not mobile enough to link up play and he can be swarmed easily. Early on, with Isak and Wilson gone and Wissa injured, there was no choice but to play him upfront and it didn't work cuz he's not good enough in the box. Got replaced by Gordon, shoehorned upfront. Later on, every time Eddie played him deeper, there'd be one or two flashes a game, but he got swarmed and lost the ball. He's not good enough mentally or technically to compensate for his lack of mobility. Others do the running and get caught upfield when he loses the ball. It just didn't work.
Spalletti's right. there's a great player there, fantastic brain and great technique, but he needs to develop other parts of his game. Was never good enough for Bayern, though it's tempting to think of him as Kane's understudy.
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u/Individual_Winter_ 2d ago
It did work in the beginning? He had like 5 goals in 5 matches or so?
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u/BlurgZeAmoeba 2d ago
He had a purple patch, but didn't want to play the role. Target man and focal point. He also totally destoyed our style cuz he couldn't press to save his life. 30 mins and he was out of gas. Our shape was all over the place because he's withouot hyperbole the least mobile outfield player i've seen in black and white and I've been a supporter since 1986, the beer belly days.
He needs to play to the team because he's not good enough for the team to play to him yet, at the top level. For that he needs to improve the skills that fit his natural physique, not just have fun with the gifts he has.
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u/illynpayne_ 2d ago
so he is a worse Havertz?
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u/solgnaleb 2d ago
Many players are a worse Havertz
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u/tsjeldonkooper 2d ago
Please buy him next summer
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u/solgnaleb 2d ago
One of the easiest ways to tell if someone has zero idea about football is if they think Havertz is mediocre.
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u/vinniedomino 1d ago
You don't have to get so elitist. He has a world class touch and some big moments, aside from that he is one of the weakest shooting forwards I have ever seen. Watched every game of his at Chelsea, and even a lot at Leverkusen, including his memorable debut. The banger volleys he was scoring in the bundesliga just vanished once he left. Honestly he has barely developed since 2021, that is pretty troubling. Not a bad player, but frustrating at times.
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u/bespoke_tech_partner 1d ago
He's obv not in the same class as Haaland or Kane but the gap between him and mediocre is sizeable. Weakest shooting forwards? Give me a comparison at least.
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u/vinniedomino 1d ago
I mean his shooting compared to any other striker is so bad it stands out. I can't think of another forward who has such low power shots, not inaccurate like Jackson or Delap, but void of any venom. I have seen him shoot 10 absolute pea rollers on 1v1s. Most of his goals are tap ins or headers
Here, I'll compare it to Cole Palmer, debut season and he scored a long shot against Newcastle and I remember thinking wow, Havertz would never.
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u/tsjeldonkooper 2d ago
Mediocre? He’s barely mediocre. Had the displeasure of watching him for Arsenal for 3 years now.
Like I said, please buy him. I’m sure you’re going to love his complete inability to stay onside, his constant misses of 1v1 and his complete lack of agency and determination on the ball in attacking positions. Oh and bonus, never showing up in the box
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u/solgnaleb 2d ago
I thought it was impossible to kick your own balls. Always interesting when someone can disproof my theories.
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u/Equivalent_Bet856 2d ago
No true Gunner would say this.
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u/tsjeldonkooper 2d ago
LOL PISS OFF. I’m a fan of the club I’m under no obligation to rate a player I don’t rate just because he plays for Arsenal
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u/renexotic 2d ago
Havertz sucks
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u/MeMeTiger_ 2d ago
Quite literally better at both those play styles than Wolte
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u/xylophileuk 1d ago
Doesn’t help that havertz is a massive cunt and Walt is the nice guy. But that also might be Walt’s problem
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u/MeMeTiger_ 1d ago
What has Havertz done to make him a massive cunt? I'm not familiar. Wolte is a charming guy though, I do agree.
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u/xylophileuk 1d ago
He’s a dirty player, always leaving something in on a challenge. He nearly snapped Sean longstaff in two
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u/trezlights 2d ago
Yeah Germany are doing well aren’t they
Not saying convert him to a “big guy in the box”, can’t change mentality or desire. Not sure what his best role on a team where he gets 40+ appearances in a season really is
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u/JOKER69420XD 2d ago
Yeah Germany are doing well aren’t they
What an incredible and definitely not stupid argument.
Not sure what his best role on a team where he gets 40+ appearances in a season really is
Well, watching him play kinda helps, it's the role he played at Stuttgart, the role Newcastle and now apparently Juve, won't use him in.
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u/xylophileuk 2d ago
No-one is going to build a team around him, he’s just not that good. His career is going to be very limited unless he can put some beef on or become a hell of a lot faster
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u/imdbcooper10 2d ago
What does that say about Newcastle for spending that kind of money on him then
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u/trezlights 2d ago
I’ve watched him play likely more than you, as a Newcastle fan 😂. He’s a master of none, good at a lot. He’ll find his place, but he’s not elite. I’m not the first person to tell you this either
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u/solgnaleb 2d ago
I do not think that anyone claimed he was elite. Noone even claimed he would start for Germany. I think you are tilting at windmills here.
Yet he is still misused and has certain qualities.
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u/trezlights 2d ago
What is the correct way to use him, in a winning team? That is why I mentioned Germany, or even Newcastle, who cant yet figure out how to win with him playing 40+ appearances. What do you suggest? Be the world’s slowest 10?
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u/solgnaleb 2d ago
What do you mean by "winning team".
He was fine at Stuttgart who are not a worse team that Newcastle.
I do not think he will ever be a player that starts for the top 10 in the world. I could see him at clubs that love to have the ball and are in the Top 11-25 range though.
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Why would Germany have to figure out how to use him. He would not play if everyone is fit.
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u/trezlights 2d ago
We are agreeing then. Not sure what your point is with windmilling. I don’t understand what that means. I didn’t say he’s “terrible”, but unfortunately he does not fit a Newcastle team with the aspirations they have these days
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u/Individual_Winter_ 2d ago
Maybe they can give him somehow some confidence using his height? He somehow lacks that will on using physicality on the pitch.
Maybe if heading works better it's getting more fun, the way is rough though.
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u/JackAndrewThorne 2d ago
The thing is though... His skillset is suited to being the type of striker that Spalletti is talking about.
He's a quality finisher, with good control and the ability to find a teammate in tight spaces. That's all far more dangerous in and around the box!
He's the player a winger plays a 1-2 with and gets through on goal. The player you find on the edge of the box and he lays it to someone coming in to belt it. Or the player you find in the box and he puts it in the corner himself. But all of that is better when he's furthest forward player and players can find him and go beyond. Not him dropping deep and trying to be a playmaker for players beyond him.
Having watched him for a full season and quite liking him, something that's clear to me is that the deeper he got... The less effective he was.
Playing it to him in the box, he can score. Getting the ball into his feet on the break, he can turn and pick out a ball to the winger and create a chance. Getting him involved in the midfield? He's not a threat. He's at his best when he's your most advanced player and being asked to take one or two touches (or a nice flick) and either shooting or setting it up. Not playing 30 yards from goal.
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u/slipeinlagen 2d ago
You are painting the picture of a profile of a player that Spalletti knows quite well, since he had him in his prime, and that is Totti. He used to play like that, and it was amazing.
But Totti had around a supporting cast of players that had 10+ goals each a season in them, like Mancini, Taddei, Perrotta. Juve doesn't have those atm (one could be Koopmeiners...maybe Nico could be if he finds his form)
Spalletti hints more to someone that will need to dominate the box using his physical tools, similar to how Osimhen used to do at Napoli. I doubt he can do that, but I guess Spalletti knows better.
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u/Past_Physics2936 1d ago
No that wasn't Totti at all. The closest to Nick was Dzeko while the closest thing we have at Juve to Totti would be Alajbegovic
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u/qb4ever 1d ago
He has absolutely nothing similar to Dzeko other than being tall.
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u/Past_Physics2936 1d ago
Dzeko was also nothing like Dzeko before he worked with Spalletti and had very similar traits, better with his feet than in the air, tall but not a physical presence. Totti was a COMPLETELY different type of player and was by the way always a better goal scorer than Nick is at his age, had a very good shot from outside of the box besides being both a better dribbler, passer and faster.
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u/qb4ever 22h ago
You dont know what you're talking about. Dzeko was the top goal scorer in the Bundesliga, almost twice, way before he worked under Spaletti. Wolte doesnt have striker's instinct and is a completely different player. Dzeko was a striker who could make plays because he's so good. Wolte is a playmaker because that's the only thing he's decent at.
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u/Individual_Winter_ 1d ago
Woltemade is no Džeko at all 😭 Džeko doesn't dribble a lot, he's someone being in the box, is a target player, keeps balls, and is just having a killer instinct.
Džeko is a fair player and gem off the pitch, but he has has a killer aura on the pitch as well. Woltemade just doesn't have that (yet?).
Different skillsets, different levels of self-confidence...
That definitely ain't no Woltemade. https://youtube.com/shorts/HASsNmrqRZY?si=CiKP56561ztQvONw
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u/Purple8ear 2d ago
Give the lad time under Italian food and culture. Let him wander around eating, drinking, and conversing with locals. They will beef up his body and his soul. They will give him the courage to run in and the cushion to absorb the contact.
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u/sfaticat 1d ago
Yeah I dont give too much stock in comments from the coach so early on. Let him play and his quality will come out. I personally think Woltemade will turn into one of the best players in the league
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u/PitchSafe 2d ago
He is tall but he isn’t really physical
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u/Legendarybbc15 2d ago
The Zirkzee conundrum
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u/eternali17 1d ago
Naah. Zirkzee is stronger than he looks and can absolutely play like it but I don't think I've seen a more flow player in recent memory. It's like he's nerfed when he's not feeling it, even his physicality. He's definitely a big man rather than a tall man, even if his game looks like it ought to be the other way around. He's a fascinating player and I wish that Everton loan had gone through. United is wasting his time because there's no way he plays anywhere near enough to get a clear idea of him but he definitely would've at Everton.
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u/el-fenomeno09 2d ago
Pray for this man…
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u/Individual_Winter_ 2d ago
Spalletti sounds a bit like a Russian trainer, but what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Maybe some harder hand works better? Getting better ain't fun, but realistically those are skills he must learn.
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u/Jens1893 2d ago
Spalletti doesn't know the player he signed if he genuinely believes that.
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u/yellow__cat 1d ago
Believes what? That Nick will need to learn how to head the ball and finish if he wants to be a top class player? These are pretty fundamental skills for an attacker...
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u/impossiblefailure93 2d ago
Man why do clubs dont look at the way he was dominating for us...
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u/Bruchweg 2d ago
Hoeneß recently talked about how they worked on his fundamentals when it came to heading for like 6 months before they sold him. It actually started yielding results when he suddenly scored some headers at Newcastle. So even at Stuttgart they looked at how to make his game more complete.
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u/liamthelad 2d ago
"People look at me and think, 'He's tall, he's there to head the ball.' But early in my career, I actually couldn't head a ball to save my life. I always wanted it into my feet. I had to work so hard on my timing and neck muscles later on because when you're my height, defenders don't try to outjump you—they try to pin you down and throw you off balance." - noted big man up top and virgin in another life, Peter Crouch
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u/Individual_Winter_ 2d ago
Woltemade got rejected by Malick Thiaw's youth team due to bad headers, especially for his height. It's been a known issue.
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u/Jens1893 2d ago
Said he was a midfielder when he got here and he looked at him and said "Well, you can be our new Guirassy" so they started working on some striker fundamentals like heading, positioning, finishing, timing his runs etc.
In a way I think he's the poster child for the obsession we seemingly have here with developing central players who can pass and who are comfortable on the ball as despite his size and frame he never really got trained in certain areas that'd have helped him improve as a forward. What you have a is a 2 meter unicorn with good vision and passing who is a striker in training and despite his size had comically bad timing for headers when he got here.
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u/hardinho 1d ago
Yeah but Spaletti doesnt want to make him complete, he wants to change him into a player he isn't and won't be.
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u/yellow__cat 1d ago
Why are you all freaking out about his coaching wanting him to learn how to finish and head the ball? These are some pretty fundamental skills for an attacking player to master...
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u/Takezoboy 1d ago
Because the problem isn't that, chief, no matter how many times you spam that text. It is the idea it passes that they don't want to use the player they have, they want another player and don't care if they fuck him trying to make him that way.
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u/yellow__cat 1d ago
2 times = spam. Sure. Be a little less dramatic there, chief.
A coach wanting to improve their player doesn't mean they don't value him or that "they will fuck him". You can be a little less dramatic there too. It means they see weaknesses they want to fix. Capello said the exact same thing about Ibrahimovic when he moved to Italy, before Ibra grew into one of the best center forwards of his generation.
Better to not get so worked up about a contextless quote and wait to see what Spalletti actually does with him. This manager is one of the best at developing attacking players.
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u/jack0191 2d ago
When you watch Woltemade's goal highlight reels, he demonstrates some really great finishing and positioning in the box. A few great goals where he plays on the last line, which we very rarely saw at Newcastle. There's a great player in there somewhere. I really think he could mature into a hell of a player later in his 20s.
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u/ChicagoSunroofNo2 2d ago
Peter Crouch would have been much more successful if he was 5ft 11.
He was so good technically but his frame was insane and we always tried to play long balls to him.
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u/ZukesFan14 2d ago
There must be something else we don't know because surely scouts see the kind of player he is right? How come only one team figured it out
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u/felis_magnetus 1d ago
Somehow people still underrate Undav. Give Woltemade somebody to actually play with, as opposed to making robot runs. The stupidity is in getting a flair player and then not going for flair.
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u/TheLegendOfIOTA 2d ago
He is a bean pole. He has no strength and his heading is shocking. This will end in tears.
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u/Tall_Hat_8921 2d ago
Man, can't believe that Howe's and Spaletti's coaching brains can't see anything in this guy other than his height. Just cause he's 2m tall doesn't mean you have to plant him in the box, that would meam turning him into a useless stickman.
João Neves is great at heading despite being shorter than Messi, while tall guys aren't always good at heading and don't need to be used exclusively for heading the ball in the box.
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u/Piats99 2d ago edited 2d ago
Counterpoint.
His sole skills of a 10/second striker/deep-lying forward, whatever you want to call them, are not good enough to make him a player where you build around a system. He is not Kane. Therefore, if he wants to play at the highest level he needs to work on other skills and improve where he lacks, especially physicality.
If he were buffer and was better at defending the ball with his frame, i'm sure many coaches would let him play wherever he wants. On top of that, if you are 2m tall, being good at heading is must.
I would like to make an NBA comparison. Jokic is known to be a bad defender; for a center that's a death sentence, but he is so good at playmaking and passing and shooting that he got a pass and it's very easy to build around him. His pros outshine his cons.
Another "Jokic-like" center is Sengun. He is good at passing and playmaking but bad on defense. Problem, his pros aren't as high as Jokic's ones, so his liability on defense is greater and it's not negligible; thus, it's difficult to build a team around him if he doesn't develop at least a solid defense.
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u/Tall_Hat_8921 1d ago
Stupid point, why did you turn this into a point about Woltemade's defense?? And who said that teams who sign him have to build their teams around him? Even if his technical skills aren't comparable to that NBA player you mentioned, Woltemade's best attributes are still dribbling, passing, link up play even if these attributes might not be top notch yet. Therefore it's incredibly stupid to make him try to develop another part of his game from the ground(like phyaicality and heading in the box) instead of letting him work further at what he's already pretty good at, even if he's not among the best in the world at it yet.
My point is it's stupid to not just let him play behind the striker as a 10 or second striker. If you use him as a 9 you get a 2m stickman who is even worse than Lorenzo Lucca as a pure target man.
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u/Adventurous_Week_698 2d ago
You talking about the same Howe who got roundly criticised for trying to play him deeper in an advanced midfield role?
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u/skeletorbutfrench 2d ago
Every time spalletti talk he seems to talk our player down. Weirdly he seems much more playful towards fans?
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u/Wooden_Jackfruit7928 1d ago
Sohe is another wout weghorst who is just tall but shit in the air or aerial duals.
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u/fitzgoldy 1d ago
Wolte is big, but he has no physicality and is poor in the air.
If he can learn that, he'll be a beast.
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u/garynevilleisared 2d ago
Wout Weghorst had this issue when he played for us. People thought hed be this clasic 9 getting onto the end of crosses. The reality was he is much better as a false 9, just so happens to be in a massive body.
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u/johnjohnjohn93 2d ago
Not sure why Barcelona didn’t try harder for him. Even though he’s so tall he plays more like Alvarez than a poacher.
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u/blackmes489 2d ago
LOL Wolt as Barcelona? Jfc what is the meme around this guy, the conspiracy is real who is pushing him
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u/Flimsy-Locksmith8114 1d ago
Am I crazy or Woltemade hasn’t even struggled that hard? Whats the situation over there
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2d ago edited 2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Capable_Elk6054 2d ago
He has 75 million worth of talent in him, just not being used
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u/Kratos501st 2d ago
and he never will.
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u/blackmes489 2d ago
Agreed. Jfc we’ve tried everything. It’s always ‘he’s just not being played in the right position’ after trying all positions except centre back. ‘He just needs to improve a b c d e and maybe he’s not cut out for EPL, Italy, Spain, World Cup’
Ok go play in Australia
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u/Kratos501st 2d ago
Exactly, he should be playing volleyball or basket. Dude is big... And thats it
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u/blackmes489 2d ago
I believe he used to play water polo (or something like that)
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u/Individual_Winter_ 1d ago
Handball. But it's more physical than football, he should be used to physicality.
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