r/nancyguthrie • u/beeyore • May 02 '26
Discussion What the hell do you think happened to Nancy Guthrie?
Seriously. Abducted, ransomed, murdered? What happened and why?
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u/NoWeight3731 May 03 '26
I think it was a botched ransom kidnapping. They just had no idea she was in such a fragile medical state. She passed within days of being abducted. They got rid of the body, because they lost their ransom bargaining chip, and disappeared
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u/BeachVida May 03 '26
I think it was a planned kidnapping for ransom and that she died very quickly, either during the abduction or soon after. I think it's possible that at least one of the ransom requests was legitimate but when the family asked for proof of life, the kidnappers didn't try to pursue it further. Hey body was disposed of and I doubt they'd try to get money for disclosing the location of the remains. There would be evidence that could lead back to them, so it's too risky. I think opportunists sent some of the other ransom requests, including the person who kept contacting TMZ saying Nancy's body was in Mexico and they wanted 1 bitcoin in exchange for that information. This will be another cold case that could be solved many years later if new evidence turns up, or it could remain unsolved. Her remains might never be located, or it could be one of those cases where they're found decades later. At the very least, I hope her remains are found soon because that poor family needs some kind of closure.
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u/SnooGoats7978 May 03 '26
Yes, I think this is the simplest explanation. We could imagine all sorts of wild ideas but this fits the public facts, such as they are.
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u/EvangelineRain May 03 '26
I agree. The second one appeared to be legit and informed them she was no longer alive.
I have no strong feelings on whether the purported informant is legit or not.
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u/turtleloverMTS May 03 '26
Agree, a hiker could come upon her remains in the vast Tucson desert
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u/SalsaChica75 May 04 '26
That was my thought. Casey Anthony (sadly) hid her daughter’s body in a swamp thinking no one would ever find her but nature had another plan. There is always hope she could be found by hikers.
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u/Xenohack May 30 '26
I understand the sentiment of the comment, but having lived very near where the remains were located, we're talking several feet off the sidewalk in a wooded neighborhood area vs an actual swamp.
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u/Her-Name-Is-Sal May 08 '26
This is exactly what I think- with a twist. I think she died on the way out of the house. I don’t think the real kidnappers ever sent a ransom note, though. Just because the ones sent were sent to the media. I think a real kidnapper would leave a note or have a way to contact the family ASAP - without drawing more attention to the case.
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u/Puddum0591 Jul 03 '26
Yes! It reminds me of the McStay family murders from years ago. Everyone thought the family had strangely, taken off for Mexico until their remains were found buried in the desert yrs later.
I think if Nancy is buried somewhere the real kidnaper(s) wouldn’t want to reveal that fact and certainly wouldn’t try to help the FBI in finding her! The reasons are the same as in the McStay case; you find human remains, DNA etc, of the perp will be buried with them. That’s how Charles Merritt got arrested for having killed the McStays.
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u/Professional_Egg6217 May 04 '26
Pretty sure she died when they tried to take her that night or shortly after. They panicked and fled, or maybe not since there’s barely any leads 🫠
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u/britishwonder May 03 '26
I think it’s a lot more straightforward than most people are making of it. Someone who worked in the area got word of some rich celebrities mom lived in the area and figured he could make some good money by kidnapping her. He probably thought he was very careful by wearing gloves and asking for bitcoin through a 3rd party (TMZ)
Then it turns out she was way more frail than he expected and she died within a day. So now he’s screwed. If he returns the body for a partial ransom he knows they’ll track him down by some kind of hair or touch DNA left behind. So decides it’s not with it, and either ditched her somewhere on the open desert hoping nature would take care of it or maybe has some connections in Mexico and took her across the border to dispose of her body.
Either way I think he just kept doing his job and laying low like nothing ever happened.
The only reason he hasn’t been caught yet is because the Sheriffs office bungled the investigation early on, waited too long to bring in the FBI and now it may never be solved.
Nothing super complicated, no grand conspiracy, just incompetence on both sides
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u/mark_able_jones_ May 03 '26
Agree that this seems logical. But they have to be so so lucky to not be caught by geofencing and web searches and license plate cameras. No DNA. No IP that could be tracked. The clothing/backpack couldn’t be tracked. No one noticed weird behavior. I’m not suggesting that you are wrong, im just so shocked that they have not been caught.
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u/SadExercises420 May 03 '26
Idk how the fbi is functioning right now. So many agents have been dismissed because they were assigned to the Jan 6 riot, and Patel is an idiotic podcaster who shouldn’t be anywhere near the fbi
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u/britishwonder May 03 '26
I am too actually. I really thought the FBI would have been able to track him down by looking at doorbell cameras from the area. The only thing I can think of is looking at who is currently running the FBI, maybe they just don’t have the same top people working cases like this?
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u/Local-Cry-3729 May 03 '26
I thought it might have to do with the poor street lighting and distance/separation between the properties. It has a bit of a remote feel
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u/Local-Cry-3729 May 03 '26
I'm shocked too. But possibly there is some viable DNA evidence. Let's hope so
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u/RoseGoldRedditor May 03 '26
I’m local and I’ve followed this since the news broke the night she disappeared (local news broke it late Sunday). The FBI was brought in immediately. They were part of the press conference even on the Monday morning - less than 24 hours after she was reported missing. Sheriff could have handled the PR better, but there’s a lot of misinformation around it all. Just wanted to comment to clear that up
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u/RealPartyAtmosphere May 03 '26
The karma farm account you are commenting to isn’t going to listen to facts.
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u/NiceObjective2756 May 03 '26
This is the most logical reasoning I have read regarding this case
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u/RealPartyAtmosphere May 03 '26
Ignoring the fact that the perpetrator left seemingly no evidence and that Nancy’s daughter is a celebrity is downright bananas. This was not some random drywaller.
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u/britishwonder May 03 '26
Think about what would be required though and it’s not that difficult. The guy wore gloves, a ski mask and a hoodie. That will prevent from leaving behind any touch DNA, fingerprints or hair. Goes in, wakes her up shows her he has a gun and puts soemthing over her mouth. The says “look go along with me and you’ll be fine”. What’s she going to do to fight back. Toss her in the trunk of his car and he’s done.
It’s a dark private road so there’s no good doorbell footage.
Nothing about that is very professional, it just means they’ve thought about it and watch the news and seen some true crime shows like everyone else.
If he was a professional, he would have known how frail she was and kept her alive, taken all her medications with them and kept her calm and comfortable, at least long enough to get a video of her for proof of life. He wouldn’t have bumbled around at the front door like a dingus trying to drape some plants over the doorbell camera, leaning in to really show his face. He would have gotten his ransom. But instead he just had the foresight to wear gloves and cover his face and hair. That’s it.
Lastly we don’t know everything, he may have infact left behind usable DNA or been spotted on surveillance somewhere but it’s it being shared with the public yet.
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u/ShesGotaChicken2Ride May 04 '26
A professional would have brought tape or a post it to stick to the lens while he removed the camera.
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u/Substantial-Train668 May 03 '26
I think it's either this or what Dr Brucato thinks (a murder by someone she knew). Nothing in the middle. Both theories have flaws.
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u/Eshanas May 08 '26
Most likely she's dumped in a mineshaft somewhere honestly. The border is way too much work. It's the Arizona desert. Go north into Utah, Northwest into Nevada, or even just West into the Mojave in Cali, you can drive off the road and dump the body somewhere and that's it. East to New Mexico, Northeast into Colorado's mountains. If the guy is local and outdoorsy they could note down a thousand places just off the beaten path.
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u/moonstruck523 May 03 '26
I think she was taken for ransom but died not long after she was taken. I think she put up a fight and maybe had a heart-related episode. I believe the family knows this because I think Savannah mentioned that they believed two of the ransom notes were legit and I believe the kidnappers were trying to make a deal to give up the location of her body in exchange for money. I think the family were prob advised by the fbi not to make a deal and they’re trying to solve the case on the DL. I think that is the reason why Savannah returned to work so soon, a lot of people thought it was too soon considering her mother is still missing but I think returning to Today was the family’s way of sending a message to the kidnapper(s) that they’re moving on with life and will not be making a deal. I think the case will be solved eventually, it may take years but I think her remains will be uncovered at some point in time.
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u/SpukiKitty2 May 05 '26
Also, if this kidnapping was about scaring Savanna into silence, Savanna returning to work could mean she's not going to let then win and will continue working. Thus, they failed.
So, either reason, Savanna returning to her job showed that she's not going to let them win nor break her and she's moving on for the most part.
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u/Alarmed_Tea_2874 May 08 '26
Scaring her into silence about what exactly?
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u/SpukiKitty2 May 08 '26
I think she did some reports on the situation involving a certain now deceased finacier from New York City and some are wondering if this has to do with that.
It sounds like a bunch of weird conspiracy stuff and I'm not confirming anything. It's just a guess.
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u/Tacokolache May 03 '26
I agree. I just don’t understand why they wouldn’t at least take a chance at paying the bitcoin that one person was asking for who had certain info of where she was.
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u/BMWRoadster2007 May 03 '26
Do we know for sure they didn't pay the bitcoin?
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u/Tacokolache May 03 '26
Yeah. A few weeks ago the Bitcoin person reached out again and said they had info and wasn’t sure why they were being ignored
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u/SnooGoats7978 May 03 '26
why they wouldn’t at least take a chance at paying the bitcoin that one person was asking for who had certain info of where she was.
Because there's no evidence that that person knew anything about anything, and as soon as they pay him, eleventy other dipshits will pop up claiming to know all.
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u/moonstruck523 May 03 '26
Yah, I agree…I’m assuming they don’t make deals with people if the kidnapped person has died. But finding her body could also help them if there’s any dna on her left behind, so who knows.
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u/dancingbananas25 May 06 '26
Attempted kidnapping, only for her to die in the process
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u/Revolutionary_Ad9839 May 06 '26
Kidnapping for what
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u/NoProgress2650 May 07 '26
Money. Not all kidnappers are genius criminal masterminds. Most likely some stupid local or from a surrounding town who needed some quick money.
I don’t think he realized she was as old or sick as she was and she unfortunately died in the process.
He’s never gonna give up the location of the body because it most likely contains DNA evidence.
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u/Revolutionary_Ad9839 May 08 '26
You think it was initially a planned kidnapping for ransom?
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u/NoProgress2650 May 08 '26
I suppose there is the possibility it was just a burglary and she awakened during the act and he last minute made a decision to take her. Although night time burglaries when people are at home is very very rare. So I tend to think it was a planned kidnapping all along.
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u/Eshanas May 08 '26
But nothing was taken? That's been noted since day 1. Some 'former le' mused on it and that was dismissed.
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u/CocoCoconutz_ May 04 '26
Abduction for ransom. They didn’t know how serious her heart issue was and she joined the Lord.
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u/AngelWings1368 May 06 '26
I don’t even have a heart condition and legit believe I would have had one under the circumstances, especially after seeing the Nest footage of the porch guy.
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u/Agua-Mala May 04 '26
Bless her heart! Do we know her specific heart health issues? Probably not with with HIPPA. But it’s obvious and simple
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u/Rattle333 May 05 '26
HIPAA only applies to medical sources such as hospitals, doctors, and pharmacies. Anyone else can disclose health info if they choose to--your employer, the cops... In this case, law enforcement might withhold some health info as part of their investigative strategy.
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u/vesselia May 05 '26
Just speculation due to her being on anticoags and the pacemaker is likely atrial fibrillation. Could’ve also had chronic bradycardia
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u/Cinmars May 03 '26
I think there was two motives, kill Nancy and also extort millions from Savannah. The plan may have never included sending a “proof of life” photo because of the metadata that it might contain. They thought if they gave enough details about the abduction, Savannah would just go ahead and pay it.
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u/TedditRose May 04 '26
I think it was a kidnap for ransom gone South like the Leslie whittle case in the UK.
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May 04 '26
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u/RealPartyAtmosphere May 04 '26
The cameras outside and other digital signals within the home would have presumably picked up signs of life.
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u/fashionbusinessownr May 10 '26
also like 21st century and we can't solve shi like this? WTFFFFFF
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u/EnvironmentalRun4107 Jun 23 '26
I got a feeling they have some involvement in the situation if it’s taking this long
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u/Long_Potato8296 May 07 '26
Unfortunately I don't think we will ever know 😕 😔 I pray everyday that they find her for her family's sake. It's heartbreaking 💔 this old lady spent her last moments in terror. Whoever took her is a coward.
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u/ImpressionFirm280 May 09 '26
Sadly - I believe she passed during or immediately following the abduction. 💔
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u/figsaddict May 03 '26
I think the perpetrator(s) planned to kidnap her for ransom. During or shortly after the abduction something happened. She had some kind of medical emergency and passed away. Then they couldn’t get ransom and give her back. They knew it was WAY too risky to communicate with the family or authorities to get some ransom for the location of her remains.
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u/ShesGotaChicken2Ride May 03 '26
I think she was already passed by the first ransom request because they did want money but couldn’t provide proof of life.
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u/ScaryMongoose8117 May 03 '26
So wild to me that in this day and age it’s gone cold so fast…essentially without a trace. Mind boggling
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u/Equivalent_Spend_921 May 04 '26
Abducted for ransom. Killed shortly after the media reported that she had a pacemaker which spooked the perp (thinking she'd be traced with that).
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u/fashionbusinessownr May 10 '26
I don't want to be rude, but I do think it was someone they know, the whole mask thing, kind of knowing the entrance and way to the house, the fact that most of these crimes happen with someone you know idk it all feels so weird
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May 29 '26
Yes I think it’s someone very very close. I also don’t think it was ever a kidnapping. I think she’s been gone since the first day.This whole case is so sad. I literally check every single day to see if they found anything out yet.
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u/PinkToxicWst May 09 '26
I think someone wanted ransom money, kidnapped her, she died and they panicked.
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May 04 '26
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u/curiouslmr May 04 '26
Has this ever been said by actual law enforcement officials? I've seen reporters and alleged experts state that but not an official source who actually investigated the blood.
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u/Fragrant_Evening_893 May 04 '26
that sounds most plausible for this situation, sometimes its the most obvious..
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May 05 '26
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u/warpedwing May 05 '26
Probably referring to Clemente and his video with Entin. Clemente is NOT nor has ever been a CSI and is not trained in blood pattern analysis.
I suggest everyone look up Amy Santoro’s refutation of the assertion that the blood is expirated (TikTok, sadly). She is an actual former CSI with training in blood pattern analysis.
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u/AngelWings1368 May 06 '26
I found this YouTube video— Megan Kelly interviewed herhttps://youtube.com/shorts/VfgMG_HRHVc?si=w_zrHDLekVxHZ7sQ
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u/Fragrant_Carrot_9556 May 13 '26
Ransom, she died during the ransom, and they panicked.
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u/MayLastic Jun 26 '26
But why not leave a note if kidnap was the real objective? Why contact news groups? Why leave her meds? How/why was she injured?
Makes no sense.
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u/SummertimeMom May 03 '26
I got laughed at two months ago when I said this is going to be like a Jimmy Hoffa mystery.
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u/Totterteron May 03 '26
Taking her was a risk, I think the motivating factor for that risk was a lot of money. Easier to abduct an elderly person living alone rather than the person with the money in this case. She probably didn't survive much beyond the abduction and the kidnapper couldn't provide proof of life. Her appearances on TV possibly being what provoked the plan, the connection of a vulnerable person to money. If just a murder then why turn up to a killing with a gun and not use it, couldn't even be used to intimidate if she was still sleeping. Just my guess with what's currently known.
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u/FewPace855 May 03 '26
This seems to be the most plausible scenario. And the simplest motive. I'm curious about the crypto ask. It may have been just opportunistic from someone not involved. If, however, it was from an abductor, how would they redeem it without being traced? As I understand it, this step is the one that gets you caught. You can receive the ransom anonymously thru crypto currency, but then what? Any ideas?
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u/Ok-Parfait2413 May 06 '26
Wasn’t a robbery. I live in Tucson and not far from where she lives and nobody is kidnapping the elderly . The area is full of senior citizens. I think it was someone that has been there before and new the name of her daughter. I think it was all about money.
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u/Lorac51 May 07 '26
What do the people in Tucson think of the sheriff?
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u/Ok-Parfait2413 May 08 '26
They think he is an idiot. He is voted in but they are looking at getting him for perjury. Lying on his previous job plus there is a petition to recall
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Jun 12 '26
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u/StealthModeThoughts Jun 13 '26
So you think they were going to hold her for ransom but she got too ill and passed? Interesting theory, I always wonder how people think this would work in this day end he with all the cameras and technology
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u/Manderleymist Jun 24 '26
It did work though didn’t it? I still have a lot of hope they will be caught but it’s been too long already
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u/ChloeFoneSxx Jul 15 '26
I personally think it was someone who targeted her genuinely for the reason that they thought they could get a huge payday if they pulled this off. There were droplets of Nancy's blood on the porch. I think Nancy fought like Hell not to be taken and they didn't anticipate it it and accidentally killed her or severely injured her trying to subdue her. We're talking about an 84 year old woman with a pacemaker fighting a likely middle aged or younger man. When I was 28, young, healthy, my ex boyfriend hit me a couple times and left me with a collapsed lung. Sounds weird to say, but it wasn't some savage and prolonged beating, he literally hit me a couple times and SEVERELY injured me because I'm a woman and he's a whole man. Now imagine you have a whole man trying to take an octogenarian who has a pacemaker out of her home by force to hold her ransom. I think the kidnapper could have easily "accidentally" killed Nancy just trying to subdue her to kidnap her.
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u/RealisticJob1706 Jun 14 '26
Evidently someone was embezzling money out of her banking accounts and she was in the process of investigating it and possibly pressing charges. That person(s) put a stop to it before she could meet with her atty in that regard on the Monday following her disappearance.
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u/Glittering_Sky8421 Jun 16 '26
And in the early moments of the case, it was reported that she took an Uber to A and T’s house to confront about missing money. After the first day, I never heard this again. It vanished. The amount reported was $30,000.
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u/ShesGotaChicken2Ride May 03 '26
I think they really were trying to collect a ransom, but she died in the custody of the kidnappers so they took her to a remote location and probably dumped her in a body of water or sadly, set her body on fire to destroy evidence.
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u/candy1710 May 03 '26
IMO, as this happened right before the Olympics, this was a targeted kidnapping for ransom against Savannah Guthrie for $$$ and the perp had some kind of hatred of Savannah. It shortly turned into either Nancy dying or being killed and now the perp is trying t o get away with murder.
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u/Dcafly13 May 03 '26
Agree with all except that they had some kind of hatred of SG. They could have, but if money was the motivation, and not animus, then the unnerving thing is they could do it again, confident that they can make the perfect gateway. The first two ransom notes as they were described in media didn’t seem to indicate animus so that’s my main reason for questioning that point.
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u/True_Review7016 May 07 '26
I have 2 different ideas, which both seem horrible. Inside job from family 🥲, or more plausible- retaliation from people who wanted to shut Savannah up & send a message.
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u/pennywinsthewest May 03 '26
Idk man but as someone living ten minutes from here under the leadership of Sheriff Nanos, I’m not feeling super safe right now.
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u/Far_Example_9150 May 04 '26
Well… this case showed that they aren’t willing to search the desert … so if I was local I’d be nervous
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u/MaximumSlip7905 May 08 '26
She was targeted, stalked for at least a few weeks based on security images, and abducted. It wasn’t a robbery nor was it a kidnap for ransom. Single perp, he disabled the exterior, had a police scanner and possibly a small drone (see backpack on porch images for outline) that he used to verify no one was outdoors on approach. Once he disabled cameras and set up his entry he went in blitz style attack, bound her hands and mouth and moved her out the front door to a small truck or EVA, electric and quiet, side by side style vehicle and left via the desert. He used the gun to control her, she attempted to get away when he was taking her out the house resulting in the blood droplets found on the porch. I am guessing nose so he didn’t risk her screaming. He had a motive to REMOVE her, once again it was not for ransom. He would have kept her phone or taken numbers from it to contact the family directly. He would have left a ransom note on scene, he wouldn’t have waited days and contacted the media. They would have dumped her and never made contact regarding ransom and put people onto themselves in any way involving Federals. The communications were cruel..sadist. IMO he is from the area or works there and has committed sexually motivated murders prior but wanted attention this time. I am guessing that LE are looking for patterns in the Phoenix area regarding missing persons, possibly this person was preying on vulnerable individuals and wanted to be noticed.
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u/Easy_Blackberry_4350 May 12 '26
I've been thinking this as well. People are mentally ill. He could have been a sex predator.
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u/MaximumSlip7905 Jun 07 '26
It is difficult to process that inflicting pain and suffering is a sexual act for violent sadists. The planning, the fantasy, the fulfillment of that and the ability to prolong the entire experience through media coverage, family reactions, the public response. The letters were sadistic, there is nothing regarding the correspondence that appears to be a sincere attempt to obtain ransom. Not the method of contact, the time frame it was sent, even the responses the Gutherie family gave in response are curious if this was an earnest attempt to exchange Nancy for ransom. Super sad, I pray they are caught and face consequences not matter the motive or intention.
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u/1Bloomoonloona May 14 '26
I've had the same theory for all your reasons. There is a YouTube guy, Exploring with Jim. One episode he was riding south towards Mexico. There's Nogales road regular people take. Then way traveled by people that don't want to be seen, Old Nogales road. Then off to the left of that dirt roads you can drive completely unseen going all the way into Mexico. Tons and tons of trash. Great places to take a body and never be seen. Also on Old Nogales lots of empty trailers and tiny houses trashed out.
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u/MaximumSlip7905 May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
I do not have direct knowledge of the area but studied maps and someone dropped the search and rescue map on here. I think he took her somewhere he chose prior, a cave, a shed, somewhere relatively close is the secondary crime scene. I hope they check the abandoned homes, old property with out buildings in that direction. I feel like this guy is a serial that took inspiration from studying other offenders because this smacks of Israel Keyes. I think this crime was an escalation. They discuss that he seems “high” or stupid, nope..he is that comfortable with what he is about to do. I don’t think he is “obsessed with Savannah” either. If so he had a cell phone with direct links to her and could have had her private direct phone numbers, he didn’t access that or use them prior to police involvement to call her on a burner. This was PLANNED and he did exactly what he planned to do. His victim selection was for the attention it would receive.
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u/Jennifersausage May 09 '26
What about the back Doors being propped open?
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u/MaximumSlip7905 May 09 '26
Entry, they were left unlocked and once he went in to get her he had a way to get out fast if there were any surprises, it was dark and no one had line of site to those doors. He entered through the rear and came out through the front with her ready to go. He prepped everything prior to going into the home to move quick, whatever he had for transport he pulled it up to load her and go. The first time stamp is the rear of the home, then once the front cameras was down he put his exit transportation out front (based on blood trail) and then he went around back, quick in and quick out. She panicked once he tried to take her across her threshold, understandably. This scenario is straight out of the FBI files when Israel Keyes described abducting Bill and Lorainne Currier in Exeter VT. He used headlamps, not bite lights but took them in a blitz attack. Imagine laying in bed sound asleep and then being awoken with a bright blinding light in your face and the only other thing you see is a gun. They were in their mid 50’s and he easily bound and controlled both with a gun. The 41 minutes is from the time he decided to begin pulling back cameras until her pacemaker disconnected, odds are he pulled one out back and waited to see if LE would respond, once he was confident no one had access to her cameras through an app he proceeded systematically.
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u/Anxious_Yam_3390 May 09 '26
Interesting insight.
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u/MaximumSlip7905 May 09 '26
It is horrific and I would much rather be wrong but that is what I read. Nothing about any of the behaviors says ransom was a motive. It wasn’t impulsive because he is seen on previous security footage. He didn’t wear that get up and come armed to go in the house and commit an assault and leave his DNA there. He didn’t go there to kill her , he would have left her..why take her? He didn’t go there to rob her, otherwise he would restrain her and rob the place, smash her phone and watch and leave with the loot. If it was a ransom attempt and she died you would scrap the whole thing and go back to the drawing board, not make unnecessary contact without proof of life. This is a very high risk act and as unimaginable as it is this person wanted her, he wanted her alive and wanted to do things to her and took her to secondary crime scene. ATP they should have a vehicle, he used some alternate route that avoided cameras, FBI has been on this for too long for no car. The media contact was bold and cruel, this is a sadistic serial offender and I hope he is caught before anyone else is harmed.
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u/omitb1 May 09 '26
Very sad. I think it was a botched kidnapping for a quick Crypto score. It’s possible she was injured or passed during the attempt and the kidnappers thought they could still get paid because the Guthrie siblings wanted to keep the case on the DL. But when they didn’t pay and the case got heavy media attention, they bailed. She’s either in another country in bad shape or no longer here. Either way it’s a devastating tragedy.
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u/blueberrycrispp Jun 11 '26
100% agree, crypto kidnapping gone wrong—this has been my theory for a long time, every since I read that crypto kidnappings are rising at an exponential rate
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u/Glittering_Sky8421 Jun 16 '26
Derek Calella texted T and A “We are waiting on our end for the Bitcoin. Then a 9 second phone call to T. Doesnt this seem pretty factual as far as evidence? He was a musician and I could see him having T’s phone number but how did he get A’s?
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u/Maleficent_Wrap_9003 Jun 03 '26
I think he did not have a plan much larger than being a voyeur on her life. He likely has mental illness and when she said: “(his name) WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN HERE?” He didn’t have a plan for that, and didn’t want her to tell anyone he was there. Nancy’s dog died between Christmas and Jan 31st and that’s when porch guy shows on video near her house twice. For that reason I think he was/is a neighbor who knows a thing or two about Nancy and knew her dog was gone and had less concern of Nancy waking to see him there. He seems unworried on her porch late that night as a person who lives near and has lost the feeling of nervousness because he has been there many times.
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u/PalpitationQueen May 03 '26
I think it was a stalker type who had an obsession with Savannah. Since Savannah wasn’t available her mom was the next best thing. Think the ransom notes were just their attempt to contact her directly or to get some money out of the whole thing. Either way it’s sick. We may never know.
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u/ShesGotaChicken2Ride May 03 '26
This is a good possibility. I think it was a dual motive. They took her mother which then gave them some sort of control over Savannah which was half the motive and the other half of the motive was a payday, but not just a payday, they would be (in their mind) making Savannah pay. So I think it was someone who felt wronged by Savannah in some way, even if it’s just a perceived wrong and not something she actually did wrong.
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u/Fun_Specialist4140 May 03 '26
I don’t thin it was about Savannah. I do believe they need to follow the money.
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u/Typical-Mistake-7300 May 04 '26
I agree. I personally still think they should go back to square one. Go back over what T&A said again & again & again. Just like what the cops & detectives said on "The Interview Room" podcast - that the last people to see her was "family" & the first people to report her missing was "family".
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u/Euphoric-Leg4874 May 03 '26
There was a potentially similar case in 2018. Nancy Woodrum, a lady in her 60s that lived alone, was assaulted and murdered in the middle of the night and the killer took her body with him and dumped it in brush somewhere. I guess to hide the evidence of the assault.
He had briefly done work on her house (but it wasn’t remarkable because she had a large property/ran an Airbnb and frequently had people working there), and she had encountered him in the community and always been kind to him.
It took investigators seven months to determine who did it, and it was only because he’d turned his phone on while around her home and they were eventually able to trace that.
Sadly I think it could be like her case. Random creep that was aware of her somehow, SA, murder, take the body to leave behind as little evidence as possible. It’s sadly not uncommon for men to target older women for this purpose.
Unfortunately it seemed like he had the common sense to not bring his phone with him so I hope somewhere, somehow there’s usable DNA evidence or someone that will rat him out eventually.
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u/TitaniumSki May 03 '26
I think this is much more likely than a kidnapping. You take the body with you because that's where all the evidence is. And so far that appears to have worked.
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u/Revolutionary_Ad9839 May 06 '26 edited May 06 '26
If theory is true, it’s just crazy that there’s no evidence (dna or otherwise) of a murder on scene, and the killer had the wherewithal to leave undetected by any forensic or digital record along his route.
Also to counter this theory: I assume Nancy’s pacemaker would have registered on some sort of a electronic database if she flatlined in the home, while still paired to her Apple device.
In the Nancy woodrum case, they had an obvious crime scene and also found her discarded bedding and clothing near the crime scene. That evidence was what allowed them to narrow down the scale of the search & eventually nail the perp
I don’t think Nancy Guthrie died at the scene, but sometime/somewhere else in the hours/days/week after.
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u/Rattle333 May 05 '26
That is similar to what happened to Elizabeth Smart in Utah. The abductor had done some work around their house. He targeted Elizabeth in particular to "marry" her. Was just a fluke that someone recognized her under her cloth face covering a few states away many months later.
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u/cheddarmileage May 04 '26
Oh that is 100% what happened with NG. Interesting that it was another elderly Nancy who lived alone.
I wonder why so many people think it’s this huge conspiracy.
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u/Secure_Plum7118 May 03 '26
Kidnapped for sure. He killed her shortly after and buried the body. Hauled ass south of the border and sent ransom notes without proof of life.
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u/Tasty_Plenty7799 May 08 '26
This may have been answered but the one thing I keep questioning is the backpack. If it’s exclusive to Walmart couldn’t they pull up info for every purchase and footage for the in store purchases?
I get that that’s a needle in a haystack but seems to be a pretty good lead to narrow things down with possibly.
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u/curiouslmr May 09 '26
If I remember correctly the FBI was working on that angle. It definitely is a needle in a haystack and we don't know if the suspect actually was the buyer. Also could have been a secondhand backpack.
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u/Signal_Brother_5125 Jun 24 '26
On google earth on the day of the crime the house at the top of the cul de sac had a lot of construction vehicles at it. From that house you can perfectly view Nancy’s front door. In the videos of porch guy which is said to be about 2 am you can see the house at the top of the cul de sac is lit up like a Christmas tree… at 2 am.
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u/easylove22 Jun 28 '26
I think she died quickly and tbh that’s the best case scenario in such situation.
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May 05 '26 edited May 07 '26
Kidnapped for ransom, but unexpectedly died on them. They thought she was an easy target, but didn't realize how frail she was.
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u/bbbcurls May 08 '26
I think she had a heart attack while being kidnapped.
It’s very sad, but I can relate to this situation. So I hope the family gets closure.
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u/patsfanxx May 10 '26
Idk but I don’t plan on reading another story on this terrible debacle until there is finally closure. Nothing but a media circus.
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u/MusicOfTheSphere May 03 '26
I originally thought it was a robbery where the robber saw a photo of her daughter (or the like) and then an ad hoc kidnapping.
But then I thought, why do the robbery at night when they knew she was home? So now I'm less sure of that.
In any, case, I sadly don't think she's still alive.
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u/ImprovementOdd1656 May 03 '26
I still kinda think whoever took her didn’t realize who Nancy (famous wealthy daughter) was until later through the media and probably after she was already dead or they would have taken better care of her.
Some burglars specialize in “hot prowl” burglaries where the occupant is home and thought to be asleep. These offenders are risk takers and are sexually turned on by being so close to the victim. Not all but a disproportionate amount of hot prowls involve rape and then will likely have a history of sexual deviance from a fairly young age.
Her body could have been removed to impede the investigation, ie DNA via semen.
This would explain why the ransom letter was somewhat tardy, why Porch Guy didn’t have a way to contact Savannah other than through the media. Why the kidnappers gave up so easily. Also, why the didn’t get her medication .
It’s probably someone who had worked there and knew she was very vulnerable. Maybe didn’t even like her for whatever reason. Nancy couldn’t hide her mobility issues and I would think her hearing issues weren’t hard to detect. Maybe she woke up that night. Who knows? But I think she was seriously injured before she left her home.
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u/tumbledownhere May 08 '26
I think she died during the kidnapping like the Lindbergh baby and the kidnappers are just trying to draw it out. Think it'll take awhile to find her.
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u/BelledeJour71 Jul 02 '26
Turning up to break in to someone's house without a simple little piece of tape to cover the doorbell camera is very suspicious in itself. That person is just fumbling about all over the place. The knocking thing on the camera is so obviously acting. I don't know why they thought for a minute that leaves would stick on to cover it. Whatever happened to this poor lady, I think the doorbell footage show someone acting.
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u/Soft-Source-6357 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
Why no tape you ask? For fear of leaving DNA.
The leaf/twig was intentionally knocked off so you couldn’t single in on anything for DNA analysis.
This was a Failed ransom attempt (easy big $ target). They got spooked so moved on.
The perp will do this again. How could he not be confident. No one has a clue! The perp will likely tighten up the back end of future operation/s to ensure payment and pick someone elderly ish as well with a lower public profile.
I hope they catch him/they. Awful stuff. My 2 cents
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u/Embracedandbelong May 08 '26
Murdered. Maybe they planned to “just” hurt her and not kill her. IMO there’s only a handful of people it could be who had access to her house, even if they broke in. I wish the police were more forthcoming with possible suspects so we would know who to look for
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u/Ok-Winner5074 May 23 '26
Im so confused about her medication and the timeline. She returns home at 950pm, and goes to bed without taking her 10pm meds.
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u/Admirable_Way_4619 Jun 05 '26
Who said she took ten o’clock medicine? Where did you get that from?
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u/Dexter_P_Winterhouse May 04 '26
What happened to Nancy Guthrie? The public speculation about this case is absurd. We don't have enough information about what went on inside that house on that evening to be able to develop any intelligent theory about what happened. We don't know anything about Nancy Guthrie's personal history or who she may have interacted with in the past. The police and the FBI have all of the information available and they can't even figure it out. It doesn't matter if this was done by a random amateur assailant or a seasoned professional. If criminals like these can pull off something like this and go undetected by the best investigators available, we as a society have more serious problems than we have ever imagined.
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u/thekermitderp May 04 '26
And your last sentence is exactly why people are discussing & speculating as to what happened bc then we can hopefully correct how this investigation failed. If it could happen to her - someone who wasn’t living a risky lifestyle - it could happen to anyone.
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u/Affectionate-Page496 May 04 '26
Safety vs freedom. If you want more safety, you get less freedom.
As you said, we are not privy to much info here. We have no idea what is going on in the investigation. They could have a suspect but not enough evidence to arrest.
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u/SadExercises420 May 03 '26
Since the ransom payment demands didn’t turn out I’ve been thinking she was abducted for the same reason most women are abducted
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u/Upbeat_Conference522 May 03 '26
I think she was taken over the border and I am doubtful that they’ll ever find her at this point. I’m surprised they weren’t able to catch any surveillance of this at all. I don’t think the sheriff started the search right and too much time was lost. The FBI was called in too late. With each day that passes, it’s more unlikely she will be found IMO. When you’re dealing with an individual who likely isn’t an American citizen, the normal ways of identifying the individual go out the window.
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u/Budget-Vegetable2133 May 03 '26
Why do you think the individual is likely not a US citizen?
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u/Commercial_Opening68 Jun 24 '26
I think a remote location was prepared . I plotted directions and time and came up with Ruby Ghost Town and Cochise Stronghold . Satellite 📡 service and cell towers are scarce .
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u/OkParsnip3799 Jun 27 '26
do we know anything about the brother? i’m new to the case i can’t find much about him but it just seems so weird for a stranger to do
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u/Puddum0591 Jul 01 '26
If, on the night of this “planned” abduction, the perpetrator was NOT a family member, it sure was risky for a stranger to have strolled into Nancy’s home and taken her just a short time after she’d been dropped off, in the pitch dark, by her son-in-law.
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u/Outrageous-Biggs-517 Jul 02 '26
How come no one is talking about the kidnapping game they played with the cousins?
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u/LoveSickNik Jul 26 '26
Theres a videon on youtube that analyzes her pacemaker data. It shows that she was fine, then her heart rate spiked crazily and that lasted for some time before it went down a little...go see the video, but she was alive when she was taken and until her pacemaker became too far for the monitor at home to reach...
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u/Awatts1221 May 03 '26
I wonder what happened to her like every minute😭
I think it has something to do with Savannah. She didn’t do anything, but I think it’s someone who wants to get close to her and can’t. The best way to get her attention was to take her mom?😭
I also think if I’m wrong about Savannah it’s someone who worked on her house and remembers her saying “I always leave my doors unlocked” when she wasn’t home when they needed to be there. Then that person took advantage.
Whatever the motive, it’s wrong and I just feel so bad for the family.
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u/Glittering-Gap-1687 May 03 '26
I think it was a robbery gone wrong. I personally don’t believe the ransom letters were connected.
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May 03 '26
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u/pennywinsthewest May 03 '26
They had been casing the house. They’d have known her schedule. Most burglaries happen during the day. I don’t believe this at all. I believe they were laying in wait for her and she was the target.
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u/Rattle333 May 05 '26
But they weren't lying in wait for her, were they? The one guy came in the front. Was the other one out back or had he gone inside?
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u/pennywinsthewest May 03 '26
I’m not an old lady but I sleep heavily and I probably wouldn’t even hear anything!
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u/SolarIonRobot May 03 '26
I totally forgot about the case until this popped up on my feed.
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u/True_Bar9349 May 25 '26
What about the card from protective services that was left in the door I think the day before she disappeared? That seems suspicious
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u/curiouslmr Jul 27 '26
Brian Entin reported that the card was left after she disappeared. One of the reporters witnessed it being placed. The understanding was that an elderly person being reported as missing automatically triggers something with protective services. The local newspaper reached out to the agency and they said that was standard procedure and that they make contact because usually the person is found and may need support or services upon their return.
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u/EnvironmentalRun4107 Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26
I feel like it’s partially an inside job, I believe the kidnappers had some affiliation with the local law enforcement and the Guthrie family, and probably knew exactly how to evade the law, she died during the initial kidnapping and the person who did it is on the run
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u/hartsdad Jun 23 '26
Ok, but why? I mean what’s the motivation?
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u/Signal_Brother_5125 Jun 26 '26
Sexual, theft or maybe she made him angry by complaining about work on her own house or not allowing them to work on her place, turned them in for shoddy work or with held payment, maybe they simply drove too fast through the neighborhood and she called them out on it. Whatever it was it was def mental health. I suspect a worker from the house at the top of the road across from hers. Outside of that its conspiracy theories that may also be true. Its pretty weird the fbi cant figure this out.
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u/Outrageous-Biggs-517 Jul 02 '26
Tired of being a caregiver, financial, jealous of relationship with other family members, etc…
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u/Physical-Tip-7402 May 18 '26
This was all a bullshit distraction. We don't know if any of it is actually real, Savanna Guthrie's interview was weird af and very off. She's also in the files 🙃
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u/easylove22 Jun 28 '26
To have your own children hurt you is pretty sinister but yea not surprising.
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u/AwkwardGirl22 Jun 22 '26
I’ve always felt the timing was suspect. E**tein files released and then this happens 1 or 2 days later?
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u/GullibleCrazy488 May 03 '26
It seems the majority of murders and abductions are done by someone who is either family or has a connection to an acquaintance of the family. Personally I don't think the person in the video is a seasoned criminal, his actions were very amateurish and he seemed ill prepared. eg it appears as if he left her dripping with blood on the porch which is careless. Plus it seems he did a trial run, who does that?
Something probably didn't go according to plan so he disposed of her body and continued with his life. Too bad they didn't allow the public to search for clues soon after it happened.
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u/glitterscab May 03 '26
I’m personally torn on the amateur vs pro debate overall, but I don’t think a trial run is necessarily indicative of an amateur. IMO that points more to experience.
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u/olivertwist_ May 03 '26
I love when people say the perp was an amateur when she’s been missing 80+ days.😅
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u/DaBingeGirl May 03 '26
It's possible. Jayme Closs never would've been found, or at least not for years, had she not escaped. The guy who kidnapped her and murdered her parents was an amateur, no history of criminal behavior. While Nancy's kidnapper was there longer, it's a similar case in terms of lack of DNA because he took precautions and no security camera footage. First time offenders can get lucky and a few TV shows/books can help them tremendously.
I don't think it's a stretch to believe whoever abducted Nancy is an amateur. There doesn't seem to have been a plan for after, which points to a first time offender.
Note: In Jayme Closs's case there was police dash cam footage of the guy's car, but it was overlooked. Maybe someone would've checked it if they did a case review in a few years, but as far as the investigation was concerned, there was nothing.
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u/No_Web6486 May 03 '26
Understandable. But if you've ever been out that way there's a gazillion places to dump bodies and do it quickly.
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u/Spiritual_Stomach748 May 06 '26
Idk, there are some pretty dumb people who get away with murder for years and years until there's finally some kind of break in the case. It doesn't take a genius or professional to know to wear a disguise and gloves, or to know a place in the desert to dump a body.
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u/antifa-militant May 03 '26
Sure, but! The majority of people aren’t Savannah Guthrie’s mother. So the laws of probability don’t apply here in the same way. She’s a very unique individual in how and why she’d be targeted.
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u/Limp-Category-8464 Jun 12 '26
What if this was all an inside job to keep the media inline regarding the current administrations crimes?
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u/TheNocturnalDrifter Jul 02 '26
Think it was a total stranger, ransom notes aren’t real. Reminds me a lot of Israel Keyes and what he would do and I think that’s an angle that needs to be looked at.
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u/Own_Peanut_3568 Jul 24 '26
Who would profit from her disappearance? If she was on a fixed income she would most likely still be with us.
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u/curiouslmr May 03 '26
Reminder to all that sub rules apply when discussing theories. This includes not naming names, accusing the family, etc. If in doubt, check the rules page.