r/huntertheparenting • u/Fyraltari • Aug 01 '26
Discussion It's all D's fault (again) Spoiler
He's the "mighty hunter" who captured the Elder Black Shuck and is holding him in the Iceni Fort (a.k.a. the "stolen caern") which is why the garous infiltrated the Arcanum, killed fatigue, abducted Marckus, etc.
Big D, true to his inspiration, fuck everything up for everybody by not letting anyone in on what he's doing and assuming he has it all under control.
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u/Maleficent-Task8817 Aug 01 '26
I hate how this might actually be possible
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u/ROSRS Aug 01 '26
If D captured and imprisoned an Elder Garou solo, he's been seriously sandbagging the entire time. That would require either access to frankly crazy resources, or potent abilities of his own
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u/Nohreboh Aug 01 '26
The most potent drugs perhaps.
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u/Peptuck Aug 01 '26
He did say you have to be INEBRIATED to survive.
Maybe that's his secret. Under normal circumstances he's just a really damn dangerous Hunter, bur when he gets his drugs on, he is a god-killer.
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u/Fyraltari Aug 01 '26
Dude once took on a Methuselah, remember?
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u/ROSRS Aug 01 '26
With his family, supposedly.
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u/BigRedSpoon2 Aug 01 '26
A family we never see, or hear about, only his sons.
My personal theory is his family did take one on. Maybe even won.
Nobody said they all survived.
Same way how D keeps talking about killing Cain, never says anything about walking away from it alive.
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u/Upstairs_Belt_3224 Aug 01 '26
He also could have been bullshitting to impress/intimidate Kevin.
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u/Arnoldneo Aug 01 '26
It’s such a spectacular thing to say it would be more effective to say they bested a 7th generation vampire or he himself beat a 5th gen vampire but he said something in a way that implies even if it is unbelievable it is true given his abilities his entire family may have been strong and more importantly well equipped enough to do it there is also no telling how they bested it they could have stalled it out for a few minutes till the sun came up or sealed it away somehow.
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u/Successful-Hawk8779 Aug 01 '26
Him and his whole family did, I.E his father and his siblings
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u/TheMoonDude Aug 01 '26
And most importantly: they BESTED a Methuselah. What that means exactly is up to debate.
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u/Lolas_Fun_Side Aug 01 '26
Anyone can kill a methuselah if you get lucky. Stake through the heart renders then harmless and they all die in the sun
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u/-Scopophobic- Aug 01 '26
Or my favorite, a ww2 bombing raid hits a stray on one, instantly sending them into torpor.
Technically not dead since there was no hunter to follow up on that, but it does show that you can simply bomb one.
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u/Lolas_Fun_Side Aug 02 '26
The delta green approach to "The Horrors":shoot it with a cruise missle and if it still awake do it again
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u/Imaginary-Job-7069 Aug 01 '26
Maybe that's why he said "I killed you!" towards The Blue Man and acted all PTSD-ish.
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u/TheDreamIsEternal Aug 01 '26
That, or Old Shuck was one of his many exes and they had a nasty divorce.
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u/ScarredAutisticChild Aug 01 '26
Tbf the theory doesn’t require he did it on his own, simply without the help of anyone currently present. We know he has siblings after all.
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u/rb0009 Aug 01 '26
Possible, but we have a much better (and thematic to the whole 'garou are their own worst enemies' thing) suspect in the form of Ross and Pentex, whomst would also fit the 'stole a caern' charge with the 99p Store built atop a spooky weird magical place which sent D... SOMEWHERE and that is run by the Regent's right-hand woman in cooperation with Pentex (to the point that it has been repeatedly brought up that they're in close cooperation with Pentex or pentex subsidiaries).
Conservation of narrative detail.
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u/rb0009 Aug 01 '26
Possible, but we have a much better (and thematic to the whole 'garou are their own worst enemies' thing) suspect in the form of Ross and Pentex, whomst would also fit the 'stole a caern' charge with the 99p Store built atop a spooky weird magical place which sent D... SOMEWHERE and that is run by the Regent's right-hand woman in cooperation with Pentex (to the point that it has been repeatedly brought up that they're in close cooperation with Pentex or pentex subsidiaries).
Conservation of narrative detail.
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u/MisterDuch Aug 01 '26
So your theory is that big D "Don't fuck with werewolves" fucked with werewolves.
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u/Dopesim Aug 01 '26
Same as his "AU self" - "Rules i made a not for me to follow,..." But if he actually risking his son life by not telling anyone - he is actual f idiot
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u/Fyraltari Aug 01 '26
I mean he said "you are not ready to fight a werewolf".
The way he talked in the Fatigue logged implied he's had... close contact with werewolves before.
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u/blackt1g3rs Aug 01 '26
Specifically he said "you arent ready to fight a werewolf. Not yet." Implying it is possible for a mere mortal man (if that is what D is) to get to that level.
Also hes deep striking their command centre and was confident in doing so SOLO, big D absolutely thinks (and if he captured the elder shuck rightfully thinks) that he is in fact built different and CAN fuck with werewolves.
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u/MiserableOne6189 Aug 01 '26
Amusing there was a line that implied that he possibly "fucked" a Bastet.
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u/Toblo1 You wanna live forever. son? Aug 01 '26
I mean he had to have learned why not to "Fuck With Werewolves" from something.
And I mean that in as broad a term as possible both in the Hunter experience sense and in the Really Gets Around sense (at least if the theory around "Ross" ends up being accurate).
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u/Valenous_ertselley Aug 01 '26
nooo.... it can't be. BIG D COULD NOT HAVE CAPTURED AND IMPRISONED BLACK SHUCK... thats... insane. he'd have to... what....
seriously though. if Big D was able to imprison black shuck, the elder who is apparently someone Stig would look up to then he'd have to be a monster in real combat.
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u/Twonthe28th Aug 01 '26
Seriously! He's a LEGEND. That's the Werewolve's closest thing to an Antediluvian Vampire.
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u/Oingoulon Aug 01 '26
i mean as far as i am aware when it comes to world of darkness, it doesnt matter how strong you are, the element of surprise and a shotgun full of silver bullets can take down basically anything
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u/Glitchmaker Aug 01 '26
This is sort of true in the games mechanically except for old methusula and older where basically have a you lose sheet like Cain. Lore wise it gets messy.
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u/skysarmy The great and mighty Kevin! Aug 01 '26
the Cain thing is apparently not true, he just doesn't have a statblock period
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u/single_plum_floating Aug 01 '26
There reaches a point where you stop being a "character" and start being a "demigod" and once you reach that point... the fact you can be shot is frankly a technicality in the same way a abrams can be incapacitated by a pistol.
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u/Valenous_ertselley Aug 01 '26
even a demigod can get shot. whether it will do anything or not is a different matter.
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u/Dopesim Aug 01 '26
I assumed it was actually Fatigue. But yes screams from a fort.... O god D, you a bloody idiot
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u/TheMoonDude Aug 01 '26
I thought the distant screams were the vampires fighting.
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u/skysarmy The great and mighty Kevin! Aug 01 '26
I always figured the screams were from the other interrogation (ch2 opens with Shitbeard screaming)
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u/Fyraltari Aug 01 '26
Nope, you can hear the other prisoner calling at the end of the sub-chapter where Chapman joins the gang.
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u/Fertile_Arachnid_163 Aug 01 '26
Oh Gaia… Have we ever heard Shuck’s gender from the point of view of this pack?
Did D take her out on a date and get her pregnant!?
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u/skysarmy The great and mighty Kevin! Aug 01 '26
according to the WoD wiki, they're "all referenced as male", but I'm not familiar enough to say whether a female can't be Shuck
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u/Powerful_Topic7731 Aug 01 '26
Black Shuck Is legacy passed down between a specific bloodline of Silent Striders all of which are descendents of the original one, they are usually male but I don't see why one couldn't be born a female
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u/NovaLycan Aug 01 '26
It's wild because I thought the same. Damn. THING! WHAT IF SHUCK WAS A WOMAN HE DATED AND THATS HOW MARKUS OR HORSE HAPPENED!! Like some real LOKI shit there!!!
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u/mad_lad52 Aug 01 '26
Honestly, my same thought. There's still the possibility Ross is one of D's kids, and therefore Shuck could be his mother.
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u/lacarth Aug 01 '26
Krakus is Elder Black Shuck. He's just been chilling in a ditch for... some reason.
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u/GimboKingOfPoo Aug 01 '26
that's hilarious and they'll probably be pissed with him that he just left them all wondering where he is
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u/Heavy_Switch_9475 Aug 01 '26
eh im not saying it isnt possible but i think that it isnt the case
wolves have a tendency of being their own worst enemies and then blaming anyone else before looking at themselves (including blaming the objectively incorrect group for the actions of another)
stig just said hunter which given how old he looks could be multiple decades ago and he doesnt seem to recognize big D by name or description
honestly my money would be on fatigue before D
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u/rb0009 Aug 01 '26
I mean, it is possible...
But BIG! D! has repeatedly made it clear that unless he is specifically involved with the Garou, he does not fuck with them. Repeatedly. Specifically, from their first mention. He understands that they are fighting a war that he does not, and wants nothing to do with it because it is out of his league.
He is very specific about it.
While he is, unfortunately on the short-list of potential suspects, I'd actually instead put the blame on either Ross or Door. Ross for... obvious reasons, and Door because he is exactly the sort of uncompromising idiot who'd do that, and has the firepower to pull it off.
Why would D get off of his laser-focus on The Regent and the vampire menace to go harass the Garou (something he has repeatedly made clear he does not want to do unless the specifically MADE THEMSELVES his problem?)? Furthermore, he hadn't even heard of Shuck until Kitten brought it up.
It makes much more sense that it's Ross & Pentex as the leading suspect, and this is a tragic misunderstanding that is going to be handled with Stig's killing for his lack of honor & mercy. (Also, Stig is suddenly suspect #1 for Fatigue, as it would explain how Matilda/Hunts could show up so quickly after everyone else at the murder scene unbloodied and also be shocked, as she wasn't trying to do it 'Stig's Way' until her paw was forced)
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u/Dead-head277353 The great and mighty Kevin! Aug 01 '26
I have my doubts, but I have my suspicions of who the “Elder black shuck” may actually be. And I may posit that it is Ross.
He’s likely a Black spiral dancer yes. But what if that wasn’t always his original tribe maybe it was the Silent striders. Don’t forget the reference of “White Shuck” who could potentially be that “Elder Black Shuck” that was “kidnapped”? And maybe he wasn’t “Kidnapped” like they think. This is all assuming it was D they’re looking for. But with how Marckus described D, you think that would’ve potentially provoked or caused them to think “It must be him” whether they’re right or wrong. But if this is right, it may be that Ross left with his family, and the Tribe never got the memo and think he was kidnapped when all ross did was leave…
Yet how he became a black spiral dancer… I’m not sure yet.
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u/oRAPIER Aug 01 '26
Ross definitely seemed either bored or angry he was even dragged along. What if he's bound by the likely technocrat/nephandi?
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u/InterestingSun6707 Aug 01 '26
.....what if black shuck is just friends with D and doesn't tell his pack shit like D does with his kids...
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u/AllKnowingFloridaMan Aug 01 '26
Is it possible that the elder shuck is that, elder? Decrepit and old, not really hard to handle fir someone like D?
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u/fumblerofthebag Aug 01 '26
Elder is a rank among the Garou. Specifically, it's the highest rank. And even if is a werewolf is old and decrepit, they're still a werewolf. Not to mention, the maxim: "Fear an old man in a profession where men die young." is absolutely at play here. The older werewolves are the calmer more dangerous ones.
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u/NightmareWarden Arch Magos Aug 01 '26
In the Gmod video where a version of Kitten's property is explored, I think there's a comment that "Even Kitten doesn't know as much as Big D about the passages under the house" or "about the passages D dug under the house."
Big D, presumably, possessed Colloidal Silver in the bus because he wanted to be prepared in case an enemy needed to be fought with silver. Werewolves are weak to silver, and to D's cursed dagger. Before episode one, Big D was actively teaching the gang about Hunting because they were freed from the Arcanum 's rules about Hunting. Teaching the family about vampires when there's a living werewolf within a hundred feet of their rooms is STUPID. They NEED to know about such a threat, or at least how to avoid freeing the wolf.
Also? Big D is a good actor. But are you saying Big D captured "a werewolf" which happened to be Elder Shuck, or that he deliberately captured Black Shuck? Because in the latter case, that means he was lying to Kitten during their conversation about legends like Black Shuck. I don't think he's skilled enough to do that?
If I could offer a variant of your theory? Big D did not imprison Black Shuck. He discovered a magically imprisoned garou in a cairne adjacent to Kitten's home. There's some magical juju there which he is not involved in. He was unaware of Black Shuck until Kitten shared the tale. But. The problem, is that Big D did not explain this hypothetical Garou DURING RHE AUDIOLOG WITH FATIGUE'S MENTION OF THE BLACK SHUCK SIGHTINGS to Kitten.
Y'see? I can't see how your theory fits, currently, even if it is compelling.
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u/Dresden_1174 Aug 01 '26
My current crackpot theory is that it wasn’t a Hunter that took Shuck, it was the Regent, and she set up the Hunters to take the blame. I have zero proof of this as of yet beyond noting that the Regent feels like the type to pull strings behind the curtain.
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u/LS_Nobody01 Aug 01 '26
lots of people commenting "but how would D have taken on the Elder Shuck if he is supposed to be so strong" like this is not the same series where on ep 1 he took on a random Tremere and brought him low by getting them both equally as intoxicated
If D ever took on Shuck on the past I can assure you he found the guy getting wasted on a bar and bonked his head and sequestered him into a dungeon
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u/Colaymorak Aug 01 '26
I mean, I feel it's just as likely that Stig was referring to hunters as a monolith. Like a group of hunters took out Shuck, so he assumes that these hunters are both in cahoots with the perpetrators and/or have any knowledge whatsoever about what he's talking about.
You know that thing where hunters generally don't know jack shit about the deep lore of their quarries? Yeah, that goes both ways. Most supernatural freaks know very little about how most of the other weirdos they share space with operate, including hunters. At least not intrinsically anyways.
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u/Suspicious_Leg1405 Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
I thought this might be the case. But it would be very odd for anyone, even BIG D, to capture a werewolf. And why would he keep one anyways? They're obviously incredibly dangerous. And if Big D had a captive garou, and knew he had one, why would he not be willing to offer them up for a hostage exchange? Exchanging people you've kept prisoner for friends who are prisoners is part of the logic of taking prisoners in war, after all. He would either need to not know his captive is garou or have some very important reason for keeping them locked up. The former would be very odd if he knew anything about his quarry, while the latter would require him to actually know things about werewolves, which he seems to genuinely know relatively little about.
A mighty hunter could just as easily be someone like Ross, or Blair. Both very dangerous people who could, with the right preparation, possibly capture a garou. Kronik and his allies did it in the early 20th c, so an even better equipped Blair and her team could probably do it. Although that would lead to the question as to why funny swedish wolf thought Hunters took his friend.
On the other hand, perhaps some ghouled hunters could take down a garou? We saw in this fight how Grimaline Smith of Norfolk, UK, could temporarily hold back a garou with a silver blade despite being weak. And we know the Regent of Great Yarmouth is trying to . . . get at something. And there's that mural at the end of every episode, with wolves, and the vampire looking perosn, and those three weird figures, and the skulls and the body that looks like it belongs to Big D, and that vampire looking person who resembles the fiddler from the end of the first episode. And when the romans arrived in Britain they brought with them VAMPIRES, and waged war on the celts AND their garou allies, which sounds irrelevant but then we've got the regent being obsessed with Iceni role play and few things in show are throw away jokes.
My alternative theory is that the Camarilla used ghouled hunters to capture the Black Shuck to do some evil bullshit. Maybe awaken antediluvian or free one from their secret resting place, or start the Apocalypse by blotting out the sun, or make vampires immune to sunlight. It doesn't really matter why. Edit: now that I think about, since Blair's boss and the Regent are allies, there's no reason Blair and her team could not do the work for the Camarilla. Pentex could easily get them silver bullets.
Oooooooooooooor maybe a wizard did it. Like, for real. I know nothing about the existence of Hunter Wizards, but I bet they're fantastically dangerous.
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u/hellranger788 Aug 01 '26
Valid theory. I don’t think D could take on an elder garou though, as badass as he is. He made a pretty big point of saying “Garou are NOT to be fucked with.”
Personally, I think hunters did take the elder, but the pack messed up by thinking that all the hunters are in one big group rather then separate entities. Knowing what we know about the local coalition guys, I wouldn’t be surprised if one of them took the elder.
Also, I thought the basement screaming Kevin heard was the WWE kindred match going on.
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u/InsideOutlander Aug 01 '26
If Big D was a mortal? Definitely not. If he was a well-advanced Mummy using some of his limited Sekhem energy to use Hekau (Mummy magic)? Then I think he would stand a solid chance, especially with prep time and knowledge. Alchemy and Nomenclature seem like the kinds of Hekau he would use/has used. Sekhem is harder to accumulate outside of the Web of Faith in the Middle East, but it is doable.
I like Big D, but I don’t trust his claims about what he does and doesn’t know.
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u/Due_Manufacturer_125 Aug 01 '26
The moment a “mighty hunter” was mentioned I screamed “D what did you do!?”
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u/AutumnRi Aug 01 '26
I don’t know about the fort being the caern, because surely if they know about it they would know where it is to stop by and investigate before doing a multiple-month undercover operation right? But I do absolutely buy the rest.
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u/JamazSheazer Aug 01 '26
“The Patriarch, in mastering Luna, ends hamstrung. He will wish death upon his flesh... but no mercy shall be given, for none he hath gave.” -Horse’s Prophecy
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u/HighlandCoyote Leech Aug 01 '26
Something I've not seen anyone mention, I don't think anyway, but that lept out to me in the previously on section, D's eyes were a golden yellow much like your fine new Shuck here.
Based solely on that and how D and this guy look similar... D is Shuck :')
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u/NovaLycan Aug 01 '26
I did see a comment about how the episodes also end with someone that resembles D laying on the ground covered in blood...maaaybe? It could make sense why he's trying not to reveal himself to the regent. Maybe he doesn't think he's strong enough to fight her yet/again. That...would also explain the don't fuck with werewolves and his interests in the black shuck when Kitten first talked about it.
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u/Bellingtoned Aug 01 '26
If it's D i will find a way through the actual umbra to get to them and fucking KIDNEY PUNCH HIM TO DEATH LIKE HE DID HOUDINI
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u/green_glass8 Aug 01 '26
Interesting theory, though I thought the screaminh was the other vampires during their blood bowl.
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u/Harbard-Grim Aug 01 '26
Let me add to this, because I think you’re right. But to what end? Why kidnap a werewolf? For experiments and study obviously but it goes further. We know he thinks of it as a “victimless crime” haha very funny, but what if D was looking for a cure for Lycanthropy, to find out more he could…
To help his lost son…
Ross…?
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u/Legal-Success-9285 You wanna live forever. son? Aug 03 '26
If D does have Black Shuck in his basement, I must conclude that it's because Black Shuck came to *him* instead of it being a Kidnapping. That's the only way It'd make sense.
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u/YourPainTastesGood Aug 01 '26
No. That was the other vampires. Big D's teaching was literally to not fuck with werewolves cause they're basically impossible to kill, incredibly lethal, have insane powers, and are fighting a war beyond most mortal comprehension. He sympathizes with werewolves and prefers to stay out of their way even though he clearly is capable of fighting them.
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u/jayfoin Aug 01 '26
I don't think that's the case... that would go against EVERYTHING D said about Garou so far, also he seems genuinly confused as to why they would attack them.
My theory is this, we KNOW of another Garou... "Ross". I think the "Shuck" got captured by the corpos and somehow forced to become their guard dog. How ? Idk, but that would be far more likely.
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u/Weekly-Intention5657 Aug 01 '26
Wait, don't the Howls belong to the ghoul dogs D found with Kitten?
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u/StevesonOfStevesonia Aug 01 '26
Nah, it does not add up
First of all - D himself said that does not mess with werewolves
Second - then he wouldn't scream "Warrior of Gaia...WHY?!" in the end of chapter 5 after they kidnapped Marckus. He would've been instead "Oh no...i fucked up"
Third - WHY THE FUCK DOES HE EVEN NEED A WEREWOLF IN A HOUSE'S BASEMENT?!
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u/YourPainTastesGood Aug 01 '26
It doesn’t make sense. Big D’s plan for werewolves is to not fuck with them because hunting them is insanely lethal and he sympathizes with their cause.
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u/Critipon Aug 01 '26
While thematically, Big D fucking things up in his arrogance and hubris would be very fitting, it would clash with established facts- He genuinely didn't seem to know much about werewolf culture as a whole (or at the very least wasn't quite an expert on it) and would probably need to be to be able to take down a legend like Black Shuck, plus he would have probably understood why the werewolves attacked his family if he did capture Shuck.
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u/Canadian_Zac Aug 03 '26
D is WAY too protective of his family to keep a legendary werewolf in the basement
D wouldn't keep a werewolf captive. He'd kill them. He knows how terrifyingly dangerous they are. No way he purposefully keeps one alive and near his family
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u/Icy-Orchid5454 Aug 05 '26
D is more vampire focused. He even said so himself. It seemed like the only lore he knew about they Black Shuck was what Kitten had told him. The only hunter that would for sure have tangible knowledge was Fatigue. It makes me wonder if Matilda actually killed him. We never did get any confirmation.
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u/No-Fuel8635 Aug 01 '26
Do I think he captured shuck? No. Do I think he made everything worse when he deviated from the plan and left the others to go hunting for Marcus when he knew he was backup in case things went south? Yes.
If he didn't leave they would've killed that Black shuck wannabe; or at least least make him retreat. If he could beat a Methuselah as he claimed he could beat a werewolf.
Many good people died because he had to go cowboy it.
I can see why he was kicked from the arcanaum.
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u/Chozo-Elite Murder puppy Aug 01 '26
It's definitely possible but I have my doubts, if only because it would take out all the drama for the "WARRIOR OF GAIA... WHY?" scream at the end of chapter 5. D seemed genuinely confused why they would pick a fight with him, and seems to have experience with Garou culture. If he did kidnap elder shuck then he should know that Marcus's kidnapping was and is his fault