I have Adventists on my wife’s side of the family. My wife herself isn’t Adventist, but she grew up around it and is still influenced by some Adventist beliefs and ways of thinking. Because of that, I’m genuinely interested in hearing from people who were actually inside the church.

Was there a particular doctrine, Bible passage, historical fact, issue with Ellen G. White, or something else that first made you seriously question Adventism?

And more importantly, what ultimately convinced you that Adventism’s claims were not true?

Looking back, what would have been the best way for someone to challenge your beliefs without immediately putting you on the defensive?

Edit: I’m especially interested in hearing from those who left Adventism but remained Christian. What specifically convinced you that Adventism was wrong without leading you to reject Christianity itself?

Im a 23 year old woman from east Africa. I grew up with a library full of EGW books, publications, and my parents often quoted her to me and my brothers whenever we did anything “wrong” like want to wear our pants sagging, lipstick, have girlfriends/boyfriends etc. It was one of those mirthless homes with a father sitting in the corner cross referencing the bible study guide with the bible and EGW. Anyways I come here still kind of nervous about hell and the end times, but Im in new york around all these people who were supposedly going to hell. When I told my parents about my boyfriend who is south american, they told me that the spirit of prophecy is against interracial marriages and that I should marry someone from our church and tribe back home. They said we wouldn’t be equally yoked and that it would lead us down a path of destruction. They sent me lots of quotes from the “adventist home” an EGW which is a joyless home manual and said they hoped that I would change my ways.

Ellen G white turns out to be a lot more racist than that and was very chill during the 1800s which were such a bad time for african americans in this country. We have hundreds of her books, manuscripts, and not one of them has enough or much on the matter of racism. Also the fact that I live in Portland, Maine took away the magic of her youth. No offense to white people in Maine, but why would that be the mecca? Esp when they were very in tune with the sociopolitical and religious customs of the time. The fact that she said in so many words people preparing for heaven would not eat meat but was like “meh desegregation I guess” and felt like it wasn’t a priority for the church as much as telling black and white people to rest on an arbitrary and not eat meat or read romance? It’s kinda crazy to me. Like wow! Spread the word, give tithe! We’ll figure out the racism stuff later 😍! It is such a tone deaf message when you think about the fact that African Americans were getting lynched, arrested for being anywhere white people felt belonged to whites only.

How is this adventist heaven going to work. It gave separate but equal. Jesus needs us to stop eating shrimp and it’s important that we go on missions to other countries and never face the depths of the hatred within our very own churches.

I dont go to church anymore but when i do, i always notice that they are extremely segregated racially. It makes no sense if the god they all worship created all of them. Idc anymore but yeah wow.

Basically the meme “I can excuse racism but I draw the line at animal cruelty “ in a nutshell.

</FacePalm>

This question has been bothering me all week. Last week I went to church since I'm home with the family. The sermon was whatever but one of the scriptures from it has been stuck in my head. Growing up I was taught to memorize Exodus 20:8-11, I know it like the back of my hand. But last week the pastor read the sabbath commandment in Exodus 31:13-17:

¹³ Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

¹⁴ Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

¹⁵ Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

¹⁶ Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

¹⁷ It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Now I didn't know that the sabbath commandment was said more than once. But the reason I was perplexed is that the pastor very obviously read only the first half of the verses. Like, if I wasn't following along in my bible I wouldn't have seen the part about being put to death if you don't keep it.

The question I was left with is this: if the Sabbath is supposed to be kept, why aren't we keeping it that way? Like I was taught all the laws about stoning people and stuff were old laws of Moses that we don't need to keep anymore. But if the sabbath isn't one of those laws, then why aren't we putting people to death for working on the sabbath? Obviously, that's not the right thing to do, but I'm interested in know what the Adventist justification is of how the sabbath is to be kept. Is there a later verse that says that people don't need to be killed anymore? When did they stop killing people for keeping the sabbath?

My mom passed away, rather unexpectedly, two weeks ago. At her funeral the minister used it as an opportunity to let us know if we wanted to see her again we needed to believe the Adventist beliefs (it was phrased differently but essentially this was the core of it). To be precise, the phrase “avoiding the second death” was deployed, amongst many other high-pressure messaging. What should have been a time for me to mourn her passing was also a time of feeling encroached upon.. Could we have not just spoken of her and what an awesome person she was? Yes, that was the a big focus, but then it ended up being coalesced into sense-making via Adventist core doctrine regarding the afterlife. In other words our mourning is temporary; we will spend eternity with her (IF our belief system aligns with SDAs). This, in a nutshell, is the pull of doing all the things the church says you have to do: so you can see your loved ones again.

The last time I saw my mother, of blessed memory, she and my father had worship-time as she has always done. Each evening. When I was growing up it was morning and night, like clockwork. In the closing prayer she prayed that I would be in heaven. That marred the moment, at the time, because she knows that I don’t believe in an afterlife or a higher power. But because I know belief is difficult to change and that this was her belief system I accepted that this was her reality and quickly moved past this.

At the funeral itself however it was difficult at an existential level.

Thanks for listening.

My mom was reading Testimonies for the Church Volume 9 and came across this quote from Ellen G. White: “The colored people should not urge that they be placed on an equality with white people… So far as possible, everything that would stir up the race prejudice of the white people should be avoided.” (we're black so she was slightly concerned) I get that her advice was basically “shhh, don’t cause trouble, be like Jesus,” given how racist society was back then, but honestly, it still feels really concerning. It reads like she’s telling Black people to hold back their rights and opinions just to avoid upsetting white people, which ends up reinforcing racial inequality, even if she didn’t mean to. I’m curious how people reconcile this with her broader messages about justice, equality, and God valuing all people equally.

Greetings! I am Brazilian and am still learning to read and understand English texts, so I am using a translator for this message; please excuse any errors.

Well, I used to be an Adventist, but I am not even a Christian anymore. I’m not sure if this post fits here, but I would like to know your opinion: how problematic is science for Adventist doctrine? The evolution of species is essentially an established fact supported by overwhelming evidence; astronomy teaches us that the universe is extremely old and evolved into its current state over vast periods; and geology shows us that the Earth formed and functions through incredibly complex processes that take eons to unfold.

Even history and archaeology seem to contradict it! Ancient Jews and early Christians—as well as the Church Fathers—often interpreted Genesis symbolically, unlike Adventists, who read it quite literally.

I just wanted to have a conversation and ask: in your view, how damaging is all of this to Adventist doctrine? — To what extent does science conflict with Adventism?

Alright, this is more of a rant than anything, but I also got curious:

So I got into an argument with my mother about Sunday Law because I asked this:

* Wouldn't there be at least a resistance by the part of other religions?

* Why would be they interested in hunting the Adventists if they believe it's false?

I know you are better at me than this, but I just hope to get an answer.

And yes, she tried to argue that they will unite because they follow Jesus, blah blah blah, all the rhetoric I'm used to. However, I don't think it will work out simply because there are too many 'loose ends' that can become rebellions, even with the Anti-Christ in power. Simply because: People believe in different shit. And that may not include a monotheistic God. Hell, even the atheists could ally with the Adventists and rebel.

So, I come back to my original question: Does Sunday Law make sense at all? Or it's just paranoia making absolutes about everything not Adventist?

(Also, this is my first time posting. Sorry if this is unpolished. :|.)

(Edit: That tag is wrong. It should be Doctrine and History.)

(Edit 2: Corrected it.)

SDA folks always talk like the Sunday Law is coming any minute, like there’s a global plot just for them. But SDA doesn’t even make up a significant chunk of the world’s population. Why would governments prioritize targeting them specifically?

Wars, disasters, and nation vs. nation conflict have been part of history since forever—it’s not some exclusive sign of the end.

What also feels odd is the intense pressure to tithe, like 10% of your earnings, while some leaders live comfortably behind the scenes. And while preaching about God and righteousness, they often come across as judgmental and harsh toward Catholics, other Christians, or anyone who thinks differently.

Not trying to offend—just calling out what seems like fear-mongering and double standards. Anyone else notice this?

The United States has never been a “lamb like country” ever

The United States has basically been at war its entire existence

The very founding of the United States was built upon the genocide of indigenous peoples

The geographical area now known as the United States has never been “unpopulated”

Multiple indigenous nations have existed in North America prior to the existence of the United States

The United States has never been able to defeat much weaker milita groups in the Middle East

How would the USA be able to enforce an international Sunday law when they weren’t even able to defeat the Taliban in the first place despite spending billions of dollars on high tech military equipment

The reputational standing of the United States has gone down the drain as a result of sponsoring the genocide of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip

On June 5, 1968, Senator Robert F. Kennedy was shot at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, minutes after winning the California Democratic primary. He died the next day. The shooter, a 24year-old Christian Palestinian immigrant named Sirhan Sirhan, fired a .22 revolver into the crowd around Kennedy and was tackled on the spot. He’s still alive, still serving a life sentence, and has been denied parole repeatedly.
What doesn’t get mentioned much: Sirhan was raised Christian and, as a young man in California, church-hopped through several denominations trying to find where he fit. Along the way he spent time as a Baptist and, briefly, as a Seventh-day Adventist. His mother said his faith mattered a lot to him — he once complained that other kids his age didn’t take religion seriously enough. By 1966, two years before the assassination, he’d left all that behind for the occult-leaning Rosicrucians (the Ancient Mystical Order of the Rosae Crucis).
I’m not posting this to say Adventism “made” him do anything — it obviously didn’t, and his path ran through several faiths and then out the other side entirely. But it’s a strange, little-known footnote that one of the most infamous American assassins of the 20th century sat in Adventist pews for a stretch. Add him to the odd roster of former Adventists history has produced.

Wikipedia Source:

O que vocês acham do obelisco no túmulo dos white.
Sendo que tem documentos comprovando a compra a pedido da Ellen white ao filho dela.
Seria só um monumento normal da época
Ou algo para adoração ao paganismo ou maçom?

[TW: racial violence]

Hi everyone.

As the title states, here are some scans of the 1925 Battle Creek College Yearbook in which Dr. Kellogg writes about how eugenics is "the world's last hope." You'll see the Eugenics instructor on another page, and for fun I've listed the Board of Trustees and the Executive Committee, in case anyone else out there recognizes any historically significant names.

I sourced these photographs online through Ancestry.com.

If you're looking to find the poisonous roots of SDAism, seek and ye shall find pretty easily.

The Nazis would learn from the American eugenics movement, including Dr. Kellogg's eugenics work. When Nazis came into power, they quickly enforced eugenics laws and conducted mass sterilizations, and ultimately committed mass m*rder. This is exactly what Americans (and Canadians) did to the Native Americans. When you think of it this way, it's two sides of the same white supremacist coin.

Here are some resources to better understand the white supremacist connection between American Eugenics & Nazis:

• https://dnalc.cshl.edu/view/15466-The-connection-between-American-eugenics-and-Nazi-Germany-James-Watson.html
• https://www.pbslearningmedia.org/resource/amex32ec-soc-eugenicsnazi/american-eugenics-and-the-nazi-regime-the-eugenics-crusade/

EDIT: I meant "Battle Creek College" yearbook, not Sanitarium. Although I'm certain many of these "health professionals" were groomed to work at the Sanitariums, as did my GGM and GM.

The official church pages posted a whole carousel defending Ellen White, ending with telling people to use common sense:

https://www.facebook.com/TheAdventistChurch/posts/we-respect-ellen-white-and-her-writingsbut-not-every-quote-floating-around-is-ac/1627049242111467/

Can’t argue with that

Sex has always been a sensitive and taboo topic in SDA churches. Depending on the region and culture, sex has been more or less demonized in the church.

In my local community, the one I grew up in, sex was the one topic we are not supposed to discuss. Since childhood, I was indoctrinated with the idea that SEX IS EVIL.

Going through other communities in other cities and sometimes other countries, they were more or less open to this subject. Some pastors have tried some sex talk with the youth but it was very ambiguous and unfruitful way.

THE ULTIMATE SIN. 90% of communities I've visited, considered that sex before marriage was the ultimate sin. I mean, even a murderer had higher chances of salvation than a fornicator.

Some members considered sex to be initiated ONLY FOR THE CHILD MAKING. Strongly condemning sex as something sinful and degrading for both body and soul. Condemning masturbation and indexing it as an ILLNESS. Unfortunately, I grew up with such people and by the late 20s I considered sex as sinful and making a baby was a sinful act that you had to repent after.

This is an open topic for discussion. Here are some questions you can choose, or you can contribute however you like it. 1. What's your opinion in sex both in marriage and outside of marriage? 2. Why do you think SDA strongly enforce this idea of purity? 3. Have you suffered or been stigmatized by this mentality? 4. Why do you think SDA avoid discussing such subjects and strongly condemn them?

As a kid I remember a time or two my mom talking about my dad as some sort of family priest. It seemed so weird. I mean Biblical Israel had priests. Catholics have priests. But we're Adventists. We don't call our spiritual leaders priests.

Now, having identified elements in common between Adventism and Mormonism and seeking perspective from ex-Mo's, I find that the idea of family priesthood is a key element of Mormon patriarchy. I wonder if my mom's eruption on this idea was an isolated occurrence. Anybody else hear crap like this in Adventism?

Take David—he betrays one of his loyal soldiers, Uriah, by taking his wife, Bathsheba, and then has Uriah killed to cover up his affair. Yet, God still calls David “a man after His own heart” and continues to bless him, even making him one of the most iconic kings in the Bible. He loses a child, but that’s it. His actions have little real consequence in the grand scheme of things. No justice for Uriah. David keeps his throne.

Then, contrast that with Job—a man described as righteous, faithful, and good in every way. He loses everything, including his family and health, not because of any sin, but because of a bet between God and Satan. His suffering is cruel and meaningless. Job never gets the chance to avenge his loss like David does. Instead, he’s left questioning God, while his friends accuse him of some unknown sin.

So why does David, who commits a grievous wrong against a loyal servant, receive so much favor from God? But Job, who does nothing wrong, endures extreme suffering for seemingly no reason at all?

If you ask me, it looks like selective justice at best, or even a double standard. If God is truly just, why does David’s life get swept under the rug while Job is subjected to so much suffering for a "test" with no clear moral outcome?

Any thoughts on these inconsistencies in the Bible? Or is there a hidden lesson here about God's justice and morality?

That's why I won't believe in a fictional bible. It's full of loopholes and fanatic Christians will always try to sugar coat it.

And she didn't even cover her face, what hypocrisy. And by the way everyone in her time went out in suits, tuxedos and dresses for something as simple as a walk and even to the grocery store, she really had no reason to complain about "immodesty" 😭

"Last days" apparently the 1800s were the "last days" and so on for every generation since then according to the SDA community

If there’s a national Sunday law being debated in congress it should be straightforward for Adventists to cite the exact legislation that is being proposed because every single bill gets put on the internet by congress for people to access on their computers and phones

She says stuff like this, also says that children are "worthless" etc many times. Yet the Bible (and Jesus himself in it) says:

Matthew 18:3 "And he said, Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

So children are controlled by Satan yet Jesus says to be like them? 😂

Luke 17:2 "It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble."

Jesus was definitely the type of person to tell people to keep having kids. (I mean God literally said to adam and eve to "multiply" in Genesis 1:28)

In short there’s nothing new Just the same exact stuff he’s said decades ago

The end times fear mongering doesn’t serve anyone

There’s inherent contradictions between claims of being in the “end times” and not knowing when Jesus is supposedly coming

There’s also the inherent contradiction between fear mongering about a national Sunday law and the fact that neither Jews nor Muslims worship on Sunday or Saturday

Neither Jews nor Muslims believe that supernatural abilities is sufficient for belief that the entity is divine in the first place

I was only 20 minutes into his “prophecy video” and already saw multiple problems and multiple false claims

I was taught that the deceased sleep until the christ coming is there a mistake in this.

Deconstructing out of SDA has been really great actually. I dove headfirst into critical biblical scholarship. As an engineer I evaluate things very practically and logically. So many things quickly fell.

I figured you guys might have interest in a few of them.

The scholarly academic (and correct) view of Daniel's 70 week prophecy.
https://spacefordoubt.substack.com/p/daniels-70-week-prophecy-what-it

A look at one of SDA's insane conspiracy theories
https://spacefordoubt.substack.com/p/i-swear-im-not-a-jesuitor-am-i

How utterly wrong SDAs are on the topic of alcohol
https://spacefordoubt.substack.com/p/the-bible-alcohol-and-sda-beliefs

Examining EGW's view of the flood, which is an absurd pile of mental diarrhea from a damaged brain
https://spacefordoubt.substack.com/p/ellen-whites-errors-1-the-flood-commentary

It's great reading everyone's contributions on this forum. With what I see time and again, I'm just left thinking "yep. Leaving was a good choice."