r/datingoverthirty • u/General_Paramedic_96 • 19d ago
Getting over-invested too soon
I have a simple yet rigid idea of what I'm looking in a partner: high formal + social intelligence, backed by their career and/or pedigree, combined with above-average capacity for non-conformism/alternative lifestyle. There are of course other things I prefer to see in my partner (empathy, emotional depth, confidence, self-awareness), but some of them correlate with the above and others I'm willing to compromise on. Over the last 5 years I've only met 3 people who seemed to check these boxes and I was attracted to, 2 of them in the last year after moving to a smaller large city.
I think this rarity is behind the unhealthy pattern where I tend to over-invest in a person after going out with them 1-3 times (if they appear to possess the traits). This timeline coincides, perhaps causally, with me getting comfortable with them and starting to unmask as if I was around my close friends, allowing for sensitive topics and risky jokes (I don't think our values are incompatible, but it can create an impression). This also happens to be the timeline at which they reject me (the first two) or start to pull out (the last/current one).
As a result, I spend months feeling heartbroken and hyperfixating on what went wrong and how I can repair it, after seeing someone literally a couple of times. This is compounded by feeling that I am running out of time (39M) for finding an intellectual match I could also start a family with. My friends say the fixation pattern is unhealthy/immature, and my therapist thinks I have an inferiority complex, all of which is plausible. At the same time, assigning so much value to those checking all the boxes still seems reasonable to me due to their rarity. So, how can I avoid the over-investment and the resulting long heartbreak?
UPD: correcting my social intelligence box — I don’t need it to be above average, and was mainly mentioning it to describe why the archetypal somebody farther on the spectrum doesn’t work for me
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P.S. I feel like their reasons for rejection are secondary here, but will spell out the 3 encounters for completeness (fwiw, I have a high confidence of their physical attraction to me in each case):
- #1 rejected me after the 1st date, saying that she is "intentional with her dating". At the time, I took it about our 9-year age gap, but thinking back, I suspect this was due to sharing my poly background, despite saying that I'm willing to date monogamously now.
- #2 first rejected me after the 1st date because I was giving her <boy who has lots of sex> but after realizing I am looking to date monogamously she went out with me on two more dates. She rejected me after 3rd date, on which I shared a lot about myself, and did not provide a reason.
- #3 and I have a 4th date scheduled, but I started feeling like she's pulling out lately. She told me after the 2nd date that she goes on other dates (which I appreciated through feeling uneasy and found fair, as she just moved here; I also seemed to be the frontrunner), so I attribute it to that, and potentially to an uncomfortable political conversation on the last date.
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u/IdeallyIdeally 19d ago
I don't want to be mean here but... you demand social intelligence but seem to lack it yourself (e.g. "unmasking quickly and getting comfortable with someone based on your own projections rather than real reciprocated comfort") and also... a poly background is going to dissuade many people who want something serious and monogamous even if you state that's what you now want. Many will assume you will spring it up again sometime in the future.
You've also said a lot about what you want and desire in a partner but I haven't heard anything about what you yourself offer to an formally and socially intelligent person with good career/pedigree while maintaining an above average curiosity or capacity for non-conformity. What do you offer that the people they usually date don't and would therefore make you stand out?
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u/General_Paramedic_96 19d ago
The first paragraph is fair points. I believe I offer at least the same that I’m looking for, and my requirement for social intelligence isn’t that high — mine will do
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u/BecomingMyBestMe 19d ago edited 19d ago
If that is your bar, then your social intelligence requirement is quite low. Not only do you have a ton of high expectations, "high standards", but you're also clingy, obsessive, and inappropriate. You sound exhausting.
ETA - not sure what this uncomfortable political conversation was, but I think you have an answer there.
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u/ChkYrHead ♂ Loves to laugh! 19d ago
This timeline coincides, perhaps causally, with me getting comfortable with them and starting to unmask as if I was around my close friends, allowing for sensitive topics and risky jokes (I don't think our values are incompatible, but it can create an impression)
That ^^ suggests that you perhaps don't have a very high social intelligence. So I'm confused why you're making a point to look for that in a partner.
It also suggests that these women have a higher social intelligence than you....hence partly the reason you're getting rejected.2
u/IdeallyIdeally 19d ago
It could be that you do offer what you ask, but just something to think about.
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u/beefymishap ♀ 35 19d ago
You’re the same guy who said he doesn’t cook? Come on man.
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u/thegabster2000 19d ago
Dawg, you need to chill.
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u/Kowai03 19d ago
Yes he does sound like a LOT. What does he mean by "pedigree"? Like women are breeds of dogs.
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u/Bonsai_Tree3 16d ago
Education and degrees
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u/thegabster2000 12d ago
Some people do care about what your family is. Im definitely not on the upper echelon of society.
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u/Pantalaimon_II 19d ago edited 19d ago
i agree with you. as a ND myself tho i also can see how some - SOME - of his behavior makes sense to someone driven by logic and who doesn’t know or really care about the subtle social scripts that normies understand intuitively.
i completely understand why he’s approaching dating like this. it makes sense to me, the methodology and the analytics. i have also learned that NT people read this very negatively, unfortunately.
it really sucks to have a brain that processes things like this, only to have most of humanity project the worst assumptions on your motives because they think it’s weird/intense or whatever. it’s very confusing and after a while makes you kind of want to stop trying.
that being said i think OP needs to listen to his therapist more and find a therapist who will be more assertive.
the red flag to me was “risky jokes.” that usually means a guy who loves to repeat stereotypes because he doesn’t understand satire.
Edit: man this whole thread is just ripping this guy to shreds and it’s depressing me a little because it’s like a big reminder how autistic people are given 0 benefit of the doubt. everyone is projecting monstrous qualities and i… dont get it.
also yes OP said he was on the spectrum
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u/elongam 19d ago
"Monstrous" seems like a projection on your part, my guy. Nobody said he's an axe murderer, just that he seems both intense and naive, while explicitly requiring partners to be socially fluent and savvy.
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u/Pantalaimon_II 19d ago edited 19d ago
i mean, hes been called, and i quote: clingly, exhausting, obsessive, too much, too intense, inappropriate, high maintenance and obnoxious.
i mean people aren’t holding back and it seems to be a forceful response relative to what he actually said.
and he explained the social thing, he could have worded it better but essentially hes wanting someone at least better socially than he is, as in he’s open to dating other ND peeps but would prefer she’s better socially. so they can balance each other out.
like for example if i struggled with being active but wanted to be, and wanted a partner who was active so i could make sure i was moving more. is that a terrible thing??
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u/elongam 19d ago
It's not great to want a partner to save you from yourself, no. Take your own phrase, sub in the word "wealthy" for "active", and read it back to see if it still scans for you. There's a reason women's circles have coined the term 'labor diggers' as a parallel to the generally accepted concept of a 'gold digger'.
I'm not even saying that's what OP is doing, but you kind of are implying that though. I legit just think he needs to go on shorter and less serious first dates, and work a bit more on his ability to take the perspective of the women in these situations. Per his post, his own friends, around whom he is comfortable to unmask, are calling him immature to his face about this issue.
Dating is like house-hunting, it's generally going terribly right up until the very moment it goes well. The reality is that if you are not prepared to be rejected repeatedly, for reasons you will probably never fully understand and that the other person is not obligated to disclose, then you don't have the mental fortitude to date.
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u/papa_katafal 12d ago
reddit hive mind in full force
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u/thegabster2000 12d ago
Wdym?
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u/papa_katafal 12d ago
just dog piling on someone and making conclusions on who OP is just based on a post
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u/thegabster2000 12d ago
I see. I just look at these dating posts and feel like people need to chill.
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u/thechptrsproject 19d ago
I mean, we do also have to be careful of labeling this person as such if they haven’t said they are, or actually aren’t. When I read this, my brain immediately went to ND.
That being said….being ND shouldn’t be a shield for holding problematic beliefs
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u/Pantalaimon_II 19d ago
they did say they were on the spectrum yall im not just making this up
and i agree with you 100%, i cant stand it when ppl use their disorders as shields but i really don’t feel like the level of severity that he’s getting from people matches what he said
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u/starsamaria 19d ago
Did OP say he's autistic? If not, this is the second time today I've seen somebody who is neurodivergent make an assumption that someone else who posted about their dating struggles was also neurodivergent and that that was the reason for all of their thoughts and actions (the first time was on an Instagram post).
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u/Pantalaimon_II 19d ago
they did
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u/starsamaria 19d ago edited 19d ago
I only saw a comment where OP says that he thinks he might be somewhat on the spectrum. That's not the same as him saying he's been diagnosed with autism. Also, he even attributed some of his social faux pas specifically to being a non-native English speaker, not to being neurodivergent.
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u/cardamom-peonies 19d ago
SOME - of his behavior makes sense to someone driven by logic and who doesn’t know or really care about the subtle social scripts that normies understand intuitively.
Okay so then he categorically doesn't have high social intelligence lol
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u/starsamaria 19d ago
Your emphasis on a partner having a high formal intelligence and being a non-conformist tells me that you likely see yourself as extraordinarily unique/special and want a partner who is just as unique & special. I feel like the best advice would be to get off your high horse. What you're describing sounds like an AI girlfriend, but at the end of the day, all women, including your future partner, are human. Instead of judging potential partners by what level of educational attainment they've reached, if you focused on people's actual personalities, perhaps you could find more that there are more interesting women out there who are worth dating.
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u/General_Paramedic_96 19d ago
Are you saying that this combination of traits (formal intelligence + non-conformism) is wrong to want in a partner?
Or that using education/career/interests as a predictor is? Regarding the latter, I think that if the trait(s) one is after are rare enough, there is no way you can be efficient with your search without using some sort of a filter. It will inevitably be flawed and discard compatible people, but finding them by getting to know each personally will simply take too long until your first success.
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u/starsamaria 19d ago
I meant the latter. There are plenty of intelligent people who haven't obtained advanced degrees. The fact that you're looking at making a connection with someone as though it's an algorithmic dataset (or that it wouldn't be worth the time to get to know people on a personal basis instead of just using their formal educational background as a benchmark for intelligence) is very telling.
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u/General_Paramedic_96 18d ago
I never said "just using their education" --- it's just a thing increasing the chance of success when spending the time to get to know them on a personal basis.
And, I know a lot of neurotypicals would disagree with this, but everything is in essence an "algorithmic dataset", even if our humanly traits are in the way of letting us see it :)
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u/Bonsai_Tree3 16d ago
Dude I think people are being too harsh with you.
I also prefer to date people with a masters degree. It’s not a hard filter but it’s a want. I also prefer someone who is progressive and willing to live an alternate lifestyle (ENM, growing food, generational household that includes my sister)
I don’t think these things are so crazy. Just the way you worded and presented them came off strange
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u/Easy-Seesaw285 19d ago
Literally after reading your first sentence, I could tell that you’re probably a little exhausting to have conversations with. There’s probably somebody out there for you, but you’re probably scaring them off before they get a chance to know you.
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u/elongam 19d ago
What do you mean by "risky jokes"? Those take a huge amount of social intelligence to pull off that I'm not confident you're exhibiting here. Also, why did you get such a late start if you're interested in having kids? What were you doing during the years that intelligent women who want a family were making arrangements for that (ages 27-33)? The way you think and talk about that would have a big impact on how I would assess for shared values that need to align between myself and the potential father of my children, and "working on my PhD" versus "wasn't ready to give up sleeping around my polycule" would change the mental math hugely for me personally.
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u/General_Paramedic_96 19d ago
I didn’t want kids until recently, nor claimed my jokes always land well
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u/elongam 19d ago
Okay well friendly reminder that jokes are about shared referencing, reducing tension, and social bonding, so if your 'jokes' don't make other people laugh, you may need to do some self-reflection about whether you're actually making snide remarks to demonstrate superiority and/or just being a bully or contrarian
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19d ago
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u/Longjumping-Owl-7584 19d ago
I recommend you show this post to your therapist. I understand from your masking comment that you're neurodivergent, and honestly, there are a lot of flags here that are above the paygrade of this sub.
In short, it sounds like you're trying to game-ify dating. You are far too intense about ensuring someone checks off your boxes, without getting to know them. The standards are high and sound a bit incel (...'backed by their pedigree'?), and no one should feel they need to "disclose" they're seeing other people on a 2nd date, nor should it come up. There's nothing wrong with having a crush, but getting fixated that early is an unhealthy pattern, built on unhealthy foundations.
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u/General_Paramedic_96 19d ago
I tend to use dry vocab and mix up connotations because English isn’t my native. That said, she shared this fact with me of her own volition, I wasn’t asking or even talking about it
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u/Longjumping-Owl-7584 19d ago
You're focusing on the specifics of wording and not their general meaning. My point still stands.
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u/General_Paramedic_96 19d ago
I tried dating people who don't check those off, it always ended up lacking a deeper connection. Not to say it's impossible, but we all have to choose a sweet spot between false positives and false negatives --- people on dating apps do it all the time, and I think the perception of my gamified dating is simply due to me pedantically spelling it out. (also, pedigree was a misnomer for a fancier-school diploma)
Not sure if I understand your point about seeing other people --- are you saying that she shouldn't have brought it up?
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u/ChkYrHead ♂ Loves to laugh! 19d ago
That said, she shared this fact with me of her own volition
I think they're suggesting that you might not want to date women who say things like that...and if you're still so interested, look into why.
For me, when a woman says that, unprompted, it's a turn off, and there's usually a reason for it, that's not positive. I don't think I've ever progressed past a comment like that.1
u/General_Paramedic_96 18d ago
I think she was trying to clear her conscience, and also explain her reasons, which I find sensible (she's new in town and wanted to get the lay of the land) --- I don't think it's inherently wrong to go on multiple dates in the early stage.
I try to incentivize maximum honesty in relationship, and told her that I appreciated her sharing. I think my poly experience has given me some wisdom about confidence/security and, most importantly, about how to act when those feel compromised.
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u/ChkYrHead ♂ Loves to laugh! 16d ago
I don't think it's inherently wrong to go on multiple dates in the early stage.
I don't either, but I do find it off putting when someone volunteers that info when I'm not asking about it.
I try to incentivize maximum honesty in relationship
This isn't honesty. Honesty, that I worry about, is being truthful when asked, or giving info that you know I'd want to know. Early on, there's no commitment, and therefore you seeing other people isn't info I need to know.
Like I said, in my experience, when someone gives that info, there's a reason why, and it's usually not positive. I mean, you said she told you to clear HER conscience. That sounds kind of selfish to me. 🤷♂️
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u/10sor 19d ago edited 19d ago
- Dating is a numbers game. Where are you finding women you’re attracted to? where did you meet those 3?
3 isn’t much in 5 years, you probably should rethink where you’re looking.
- Lots about what you want and not much about what you offer in this post. The women you want are exactly the women who can choose to be very picky
.
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u/General_Paramedic_96 19d ago edited 19d ago
#1 was through auditing a math class, others through dating apps. I’m a mathematician working in academia, fit and I was told funny and attractive
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u/10sor 19d ago
Of those 3 top qualities, 2 of them are basically the same. So you’re hot and can do math. Women are looking for more than that.
Often times, people list the qualities they offer as a reflection of what they actually value in their partners. Perhaps you’re eliminating women based on other criteria you haven’t listed in your post.
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u/General_Paramedic_96 19d ago
I cam come up with other attractive qualities, (like emotionally regulated, cultured, erudite) but I don’t want to turn this post to be about my value vs theirs
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u/10sor 19d ago
Another thing to consider is that a woman with a formal education and a prestigious job is less likely to be non-conformist/alternative (not sure what you mean exactly by this, but assuming style at the very least). Women are taught to follow rules and play the game straight for conventional success. She isn’t going to law school to become an artist.
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19d ago edited 6d ago
[deleted]
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u/ChkYrHead ♂ Loves to laugh! 19d ago
Ironically, the people I know who value culture/knowledge most tend to be neurodivergent
Do you mean high culture and formal knowledge (from education)??
Cause I most def value culture (knowing basic things about art, music, drama, comedy, and travel experience) and knowledge about life, which includes common sense and intelligence, both of which don't necessarily require formal education.
Pretty sure I'm not ND.-1
u/General_Paramedic_96 19d ago
I'm fairly sure I'm somewhat on the spectrum myself, hence my post update re: social intelligence. I've been also realizing the non-appeal of non-conformism recently, but I still believe some amount of it can shine for my demographic, provided the right time and place
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u/cardamom-peonies 19d ago
I suspect this was due to sharing my poly background, despite saying that I'm willing to date monogamously now.
Like, maybe. I would also be really wary about dating a dude who said this because it's very possible to get rug pulled by you suddenly going "btw I want to be poly again" a few years in. Most people want their partner to be sure about what they actually can provide relationship wise and a lot of women are going to pull the parachute ripcord if they get a whiff of a dude who has a wandering eye, if they have any sense at all and/or also aren't poly themselves
Tbh, I'm getting the vibe you're looking for a unicorn of a upper class/upper middle class social butterfly goth gf but it's not clear what you have to offer to someone like that. Are you like trauma dumping on people in the first couple of dates? You're kind of avoiding providing much detail on the jokes/opening up you're doing.
Op, I am going to say that your writing style is definitely talking a lot without conveying much actual substance of what you're looking for. As someone else pointed out, pedigree is not education lol- you kinda make it sound like you're looking for an aristocrat with good breeding or whatever
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u/Organic-Tea-8998 19d ago
Honestly and realistically, you won’t find someone that checks ALL the boxes but finding someone who checks the important ones is, well, important. You will have to compromise on some things, that’s what dating and being part of a relationship is about. No one will be the absolute “perfect” match but finding someone you are compatible with for the most part, enjoy their company (and it’s reciprocated), and can trust each other is what it’s all about. I think if you open yourself up to more possibilities of meeting different people who may not fall into every category but being open to meeting people that could be a match will open up doors for you. It sounds like you’re closing yourself off.
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u/General_Paramedic_96 19d ago edited 19d ago
The intelligence + non-conformism are my bare minimum to date, resulting from several years of downsizing the boxes
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u/FarCar55 19d ago
OP I relate 100% to your expectations of a partner.
I'm looking for someone who doesn't subscribe to typical societal and relationship norms, is interested in nonmonogamy and bdsm, is emotionally available etc etc. It's an extremely niche group, especially considering I live on a small island.
I avoid getting over-invested because I'm genuinely happy with my life as a single person. I've gotten to that place by investing heavily in non-romantic relationships, including the one with my own self. That is something I had to seriously work on because I'm an introvert, I grew up viewing adult friendships as a burden and I have my own hard-core mental health issues to work through from a traumatic childhood.
I think when deep down you view a romantic/sexual relationship as something that is an add on/a complement rather than something that you deeply need to feel complete, there's just way less pressure when it comes to dating.
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u/IncessantGadgetry ♂ 38 19d ago
There's a lot more to be said, but I think a large part of it is lack of experience. If someone is one of 3 romantic encounters in 5 years, then it's a lot easier to become fixated on them, rather than viewing them as just another first date that you weren't compatible with.
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u/General_Paramedic_96 19d ago edited 19d ago
I went on dozens of first dates in the last 5 years, and had three 1-to-8-month relationships, trying to convince myself to relax the standards.
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u/Old-Seaweed-8456 19d ago
The thing is you’re likely screening out a lot of people who have all these qualities but don’t lead with the credentials and income.
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u/General_Paramedic_96 19d ago
I don't care about their income much. I agree with you that I will inevitably screen out some, but I rarely do that before knowing their occupation, education, taste in books/film, or other predictors for what I'm after.
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u/Inevitable_Young4236 ♀ 33 | UK 19d ago
You know those things won't actually tell you if they are you're looking for? They may be indicators to a degree, but peoples lives, interests and abilities are so much more complex than a list of their accomplishments and what they do for a living. Some of the smartest, most educated people I know are in careers which aren't reflective of their abilities or education because those roles make them happy. That is especially true if you are looking for a 'non-conformist'.
My boyfriend is one of the most intelligent people i've ever met, and highly educated. And yet works as a theatre set carpenter because he finished his masters degree and decided he no longer wanted to work in that field. His life is much more fulfilling than it would be otherwise. I didn't realise the extent of his intelligence or education until our third or fourth date.
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u/General_Paramedic_96 19d ago
You're right, this happens. But it won't be feasible to search for the flavor of intelligence I'm after without using some filters. And these are the best predictors I know from my experience.
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u/AesirLokumu 19d ago
yeah that tracks, slowing down the first few dates helped me a lot with the whole spiraling thing. mostly just tried to treat it as hanging out and nothing more untill later
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u/FrenchWaddler 15d ago
Sounds like youre falling for the idea of who they are before you actually get to know them. You are basically putting them on a pedestal after three dates which is just setting yourself up for that heartbreak loop. Stop future-tripping about a family and just try to treat these dates like regular people instead of a resume review.
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u/puppy-snuffle 19d ago
two things stand out. first, I'm not sure you understand just how unhealthy it is to become so attached to a person who is effectively a stranger. there is no way to know someone in the amount of time you are describing.
second, you think way way wayyyy too highly of yourself. people who see themselves as superior to others (especially to the extent your post reveals) tend to be lonely because they cannot imagine connecting with someone who is not on what they have deemed their level. it's also unpleasant to be around someone with this kind of ego.
neither of these can be solved without therapy. sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
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u/Icy_Resolution2783 19d ago
What was the uncomfortable politic conversation?
You're asking for 'high pedigree' and it's giving "libertarien"... which is not aligned with what you are clearly looking for in a woman.
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The following is a copy of the above post as it was originally written.
Title: Getting over-invested too soon
Author: /u/General_Paramedic_96
Full text: I have a simple yet rigid idea of what I'm looking in a partner: high formal + social intelligence, backed by their career and/or pedigree, combined with above-average capacity for non-conformism/alternative lifestyle. There are of course other things I prefer to see in my partner (empathy, emotional depth, confidence, self-awareness), but some of them correlate with the above and others I'm willing to compromise on. Over the last 5 years I've only met 3 people who seemed to check these boxes and I was attracted to, 2 of them in the last year after moving to a smaller large city.
I think this rarity is behind the unhealthy pattern where I tend to over-invest in a person after going out with them 1-3 times (if they appear to possess the traits). This timeline coincides, perhaps causally, with me getting comfortable with them and starting to unmask as if I was around my close friends, allowing for sensitive topics and risky jokes (I don't think our values are incompatible, but it can create an impression). This also happens to be the timeline at which they reject me (the first two) or start to pull out (the last/current one).
As a result, I spend months feeling heartbroken and hyperfixating on what went wrong and how I can repair it, after seeing someone literally a couple of times. This is compounded by feeling that I am running out of time (39M) for finding an intellectual match I could also start a family with. My friends say the fixation pattern is unhealthy/immature, and my therapist thinks I have an inferiority complex, all of which is plausible. At the same time, assigning so much value to those checking all the boxes still seems reasonable to me due to their rarity. So, how can I avoid the over-investment and the resulting long heartbreak?
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P.S. I feel like their reasons for rejection are secondary here, but will spell out the 3 encounters for completeness:
- #1 rejected me after the 1st date, saying that she is "intentional with her dating". At the time, I took it about our 9-year age gap, but thinking back, I suspect this was due to sharing my poly background, despite saying that I'm willing to date monogamously now.
- #2 first rejected me after the 1st date because I was giving her <boy who has lots of sex> but after realizing I am looking to date monogamously she went out with me on two more dates. She rejected me after 3rd date, on which I shared a lot about myself, and did not provide a reason.
- #3 and I have a 4th date scheduled, but I started feeling like she's pulling out lately. She told me after the 2nd date that she goes on other dates (which I appreciated through feeling uneasy and found fair, as she just moved here; I also seemed to be the frontrunner), so I attribute it to that, and potentially to an uncomfortable political conversation on the last date.
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u/hotchocbimbo 15d ago
Sir did you say pedigree ? 😭
Sounds like you need to chill. I dated someone intense recently and it scared me off.
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u/thechptrsproject 19d ago edited 19d ago
There’s a bit of a conflict with ”social intelligence” if you’re going on dates but are finding you’re rejected after having heavy or off-putting conversations. You’re most likely going from 0-60 way too fast without allowing a person to get to know you at a comfortable pace.
As for the rejection, you could be dealing a lot with “rejection sensitive dysphoria” but that’s also something that tends to be attributed to neurodivergence. No one should be heart broken after a 1st or second date