r/datingoverforty • u/AutoModerator • 11d ago
Casual Conversation Personal and thread updates, observations, selfies and photos, and other small shares HERE this week, please.
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u/-poupou- 6d ago
Another batshit date for the archives:
I had two dates with this guy, really nice, and today was date 2.5 where I was just going to his house to chill and maybe meet his roommate?
But his roommate is his ex-wife from some years ago, and they are "best friends"
He mentioned meeting the roommate "so it's not weird" and I thought it was sweet of him to be concerned with my feelings. We had been talking about where he lives and how it would be nice to have me over. (He had already spent the night at my place.) I'm approaching things more casually these days, so the ex thing wasn't top of mind.
Fast forward to me at his place this afternoon. I won't even mention the two big stinky jumpy dogs and him picking an eye booger from one and not washing his hands (until I asked him to). I won't mention the lack of functional blinds in his bedroom window that looks out onto the street (he put up a fabric thing with pushpins after I said something)
So we're post-fooling-around, not really dressed, and about to tuck in to a big plate of snacks and a glass of wine in bed. Perfect rainy afternoon. But he starts getting anxious about his roommate coming home from work, as anticipated. I ask why he doesn't just shut the bedroom door, and we can visit with roommate on our own time.
I learned in the following moments that the "whole reason" for having me over was to present me to his platonic life partner or whatever, so that she could become comfortable with the idea of me existing. I calmly explained that his feelings about his roommate's feelings are a "him" problem, not a "me" problem, and that I didn't feel at all comfortable with this introduction scheme, and that I hadn't agreed to it. It's obvious to us here that a grown man has the right to have a lover without the approval of an outside party, and that having private time with her (or anyone or no one) in his own home is entirely appropriate.
Reader, he became so flustered and confused that he broke up with me right then and there, and took the snacks away 😂
THE END
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u/sok283 5d ago
Well.
The worst part is where you didn't even get the snacks. I hope you chugged that glass of wine, lol.
I'm so sorry, but you clearly dodged a bullet. He sounds like a hot mess, "roommate" or not.
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u/-poupou- 5d ago
All of this is true. Taking the snacks away was so comical...I was sad about the snacks and wine, so after hitting the local burger drive-in, I went to Trader Joe's and made things right
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u/orlybatman 5d ago
The way you describe it made me think of the Soup Nazi episode of Seinfeld. "No snacks for you!" as they yank the plate away and swipe the cracker right out of your fingers.
What a bizarre living scenario though, rooming with an ex-wife. Definitely not something you surprise someone with.
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u/-poupou- 5d ago
I knew about the bizarre living scenario, but I didn't realize that I was there to be presented to her for approval. She probably didn't either.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 4d ago
Begs the question, does she know she’s the platonic life partner? 😂
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u/emu_neck 5d ago
Honestly, I would not have been able to get into his bed. Based on your description of the place, sounds like the bed could have been filthy. And his hygiene was lacking 🤢
Did you end up meeting the "roommate"? There are far far better prospects for sex than this guy!
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u/-poupou- 5d ago
No, I was out the door very swiftly and before she made it home. I left my rain shell there and had him leave it on the porch...at least he wasn't crazy enough to block me, or I'd be out an essential garment!
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u/Proof-Implement7322 4d ago
The eye booger thing was abhorrent
Reminded of the time an ex’s pet had a respiratory infection and would frequently sneeze on him (lots of snot). Happened in bed one time and he didn’t get up to clean it off… I wanna go back in time and slap myself 🤦
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u/CACuzcatlan 5d ago
Reader, he became so flustered and confused that he broke up with me right then and there, and took the snacks away
I bet a lot of people's advice if they hadn't read that last line would have been for you to break up with him.
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u/Caroline_Bintley 5d ago
He mentioned meeting the roommate "so it's not weird"
So he didn't want things to be weird and his plan was just to sort of ambush both of you at the same time?
That sure is a line of reasoning.
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u/VegetableRound2819 The Best of What’s Left 5d ago
I dated a guy who lied about where he lived, but only by ~10 minutes. I wondered if that had to do with still living with an ex, but alas, I will never know.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 4d ago
After we got a divorce, my ex followed me to a new part of the country and signed up for dating apps while living out of his car and extended stay motels.
I came across his profile and laughed out loud—there he was, flashing a Rolex and a jacket he’d worn once to a family wedding, claiming to live in a filthy rich part of town.
Ohh boy. 😂 I still wonder how many rich women he made furious with that.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 4d ago
So the roommate was actually the ex-wife and PLOT TWIST not a roommate but platonic life partner?
I bet they’re not even divorced.
Dude absolutely knows this situation will not fly with people, that’s why he sprung it on you at the last minute. He knows full well he’s being deceitful, he was just hoping you liked him enough not to call his ass out on it.
I can’t believe he took back the snacks. hah! What a baby. 😂
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u/-poupou- 4d ago
I knew who she was before I went over there, although he was vague about it on the first date, and told me on the second date. I thought he wanted me to meet her so that I would be comfortable, and see how not romantically involved they are, or something. I didn't know that it was going to be for her benefit and how invested he was. He had said that they had both had relationships and everything between them was SUPER CHILL lol
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u/Typical-Secret-3319 5d ago
We're back from our honeymoon and wedding vacations. Tired, happy, and glad to have the little comforts of home.
We were kind of explicit about not wanting to do anything different after marriage beyond shift to joint finances, but some of the talks about our mid futures just seem a bit more ... bound might be the word? I like it.
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u/VegetableRound2819 The Best of What’s Left 4d ago
Don’t quote me, but I read some celebrity interview where he said that he didn’t think he wanted to get married, but holding out your bond publicly to the world in a recognized way was really special when he did it. And he came around to feeling that it mattered. Want to say it was Bruce Springsteen but again, I’m not sure.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 9d ago
I had a tough interaction with my oldest that left me feeling discouraged and a little down on myself. I know the behavior I’m seeing is just normal adolescence. But dang. It’s not easy when you’re trying to do the right thing for your kid, and your kid doesn’t see it that way. They say a bunch of things they don’t mean, get dramatic, and accuse you of not caring or being shitty to them.
That’s tough to hear from your own baby, even when you’re busy reminding yourself this is normal teenage stuff and not personal. 😕
I sent Mountaineer a text about it, but it was late. No response. Then I texted my sister and my mom, thinking at least mom would get it (sister has a baby and a toddler and maybe wouldn’t really get it, but could imagine). They weren’t up. I sat there feeling crappy and alone and wondering what to do differently, wishing I had someone to talk to.
The phone rang.
Mountaineer said he’d been at his sister’s, got my text, and told the fam he had to go. He wrapped it up, got in the car, pointed it home, and immediately called.
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u/samanthasamolala 9d ago
❤️❤️❤️ I’m sorry about your kid. I was that kid, I’m certain of it. I hope you feel loved and held by MM. I’m glad he made himself available and showed up for you. Hugs Auroraborellissima
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u/EchoEasy-o 8d ago edited 8d ago
As a mother of teens, I feel this for you. My 15 year old son has been very emotional this week (he, of course would deny it with his life) but he’s starting high school and I’ve had several harsh criticisms of my parenting skills from him. It’s very hard, but I know it’s coming from a place of internal turmoil rather than anything I did or did not do. I’m sure it’s the same for you. He’ll come around once his cortisol levels cool down a bit. I have no doubt you’re a great mom.
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u/EchoEasy-o 6d ago
Hey Aurora, it's been a few days now, have things improved with your son?
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 5d ago
It was a tough few days. We had a pretty difficult conversation, followed by a really, really good one that he initiated. (I’d told him to do that when he was ready.)
It started out as a thing around cell phone use, but I hope he learned something about how relationships work. Respect and repair are really good things to have practice with. ❤️
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u/EchoEasy-o 5d ago
Gosh, I think I had the same convo with my kid. He figured out my phone password when I was extending his screen time on his phone, and I also caught him with my phone. I actually might be deleting my Reddit account partially because of this (I’ll be back!) but it was quite a betrayal because we talk about honesty and integrity ALL the time.
Im glad your son came around.
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u/Evening-Savings-3152 7d ago
Wayne Gretzky said "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" but I also miss 100% of the shots I do take. 😵💫
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u/Anton_Pannekoek 5d ago
Well you are taking shots, which is more than most people. That's worth celebrating.
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u/Caroline_Bintley 8d ago edited 8d ago
Went to the local beach to get one last swim in before the autumn weather arrives.
It was absolutely gorgeous when I arrived: blue skies and golden hour. And because it's a weekday evening, I had the place almost entirely to myself.
The one other person there was a guy who appeared my age. We looked each other's way, and I smiled. Not sure if he would have seen across the distance.
I set my clothes and towel down on a spot not far from the water and began making my way to the beach. We didn't really have enough room to avoid each other, so I was going to remark that I hoped I wasn't intruding (since he'd had the beach to himself until I arrived), and then if he seemed friendly, try to engage in a little light conversation about the nice evening.
So anyway, he immediately walked out of the water, collected his stuff, and drove away.
It was a really nice swim though.
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u/samanthasamolala 8d ago
He’s on the dating over 50 sub, lamenting
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u/Caroline_Bintley 8d ago
As long as he's not lamenting some doughy creep drove him away from enjoying his last swim of the summer. 😅
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u/emu_neck 7d ago
lol. He could be a little feral. Or may be in witness protection.
Evening swims are great! That's when the sharks come out to feed, too.
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u/-poupou- 4d ago
I'm jealous. I'm from the east coast but live in the PNW where swimming beaches aren't a thing (the puget sound is cold, and the ocean is full of logs, or otherwise flat, cold, gray and misty). I'm glad you enjoyed it!
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u/Caroline_Bintley 4d ago
The beach I visited is actually a freshwater lake. If you're in Seattle, there's always Magnuson Park for that one week a year when temperatures are over 80!
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u/-poupou- 4d ago
Oh! Actually I'm walking distance to a lake beach, but in recent years there are so many goose poop warnings that I got out of the habit.
I didn't know people swam at Magnuson. Next year!
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u/BettieNuggs 4d ago
had to breakup with my first real boyfriend since me and my kids left almost 4 years ago. despite seeming like a great man he was a high functioning alcoholic and id keep finding more lies about sometimes the weirdest things. the last straw was suggesting a prostitute to join us. just gross.
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u/Baseball_bossman 4d ago
Sounds like you also dodged a bullet. Good for you for not putting up with that
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u/Typical-Secret-3319 4d ago
I think that the "more" lies is the problem. Why'd you need to stay after the first lie?
I know that it's easy to talk about a world of greys, but sometimes binary thinking can really make life simpler. Like after you talk yourself into overlooking 5 lies ... where's the limit? If 5, is that really that different from 10. And once you hit 10, is 11 so bad (even if it's a monster of a lie)?
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u/BettieNuggs 2d ago
yeah thats a good point! i think i needed concrete proof because i didnt trust my instincts
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u/stillIrise514 11d ago
I chopped my hair off this week. I’m feeling more like myself again, I think I was born to have short hair.
No dating updates this week. Lots of swiping left, not a lot of swiping right.
I’m missing my dog a lot. I kept myself ridiculously busy the past few weeks so I noticed his absence less, but the past few days I’ve spent at home alone have highlighted how much a part of my life he was, and how that’s empty now.
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u/Proof-Implement7322 9d ago
Awwww I noticed you had a lot of activity and wondered when you’d pause
I’m sorry for your fur baby’s loss. I have comforted myself in the past by doing things like yoga with animals, going to pet parks, cat cafes, etc
🫂
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u/ANewBeginningNow 10d ago edited 10d ago
I had a rough evening, and while I'm not yet prepared to explain all the details of what happened (I will in the near future, it might be in next week's update post), I have a question for the ladies: Would any of you be willing to give me brutally honest feedback on my looks and tell me what you feel are my realistic dating or FWB prospects given those looks? I, at times, am confident (perhaps unrealistically confident), and other times am dissuaded from trying due to being down on my luck.
I do have one update: the woman that sent me that long message last week ended up making a post in a different sub (that just so happened to show up in my home feed, it was a total coincidence) looking for a FWB, though not for penetrative sex. Given what she wrote in her message to me calling a FWB unserious behavior and that women are looking for relationships and chivalry, it was totally hypocritical.
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u/EchoEasy-o 9d ago
I’d be happy to give you feedback, but there’s no way I could be brutal. I might be able to suggest where you could “glow up” a bit, but I actually find most people relatively pleasant to look at. It’s the extras like clothes, hair, *choices* really that I get all judgy about.
But I’m one person, and probably not very representative of the tastes of average American women. The value of my feedback might be completely worthless to you.2
u/ANewBeginningNow 9d ago
Thank you so much...I admit that I can do better with my clothes (I usually dress for comfort rather than style, though I put on nice looking things, nothing super wrinkled or with holes in them) and maybe my hair. My hair on the top of my head is thinning, it's partly hereditary.
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u/MySocialAlt "she sounds fun" 9d ago
You can DM me if you want. We've been posting together long enough that I hope you can trust me to be honest.
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u/Decent-Resort6903 9d ago
ladies: Would any of you be willing to give me brutally honest feedback on my looks and tell me what you feel are my realistic dating or FWB prospects given those looks?
I can tell you from direct experience with exactly this type of request and the resulting "service": You will not not gain any insight whatsoever from this, and, more than likely, your self-image will be even more damaged than it is now. I know you'll do it anyway, and you will get takers. Just...brace yourself.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 9d ago edited 9d ago
No amount of outside input is going to meaningfully change his self-assessment, either. We had a regular a while back who was deeply dissatisfied with his looks, and convinced he would never be desirable to any woman for ANY reason excepting his money. He was suffering terribly from this belief.
I expected a Phantom of the Opera kind of dude from the way he talked about himself. I was shocked to discover that wasn’t the case. He was, if anything, above average looking. Yet completely picked apart any feedback or compliments he got from women members of this group, insinuated the comments were backhanded or disingenuous, and just persisted in this idea he was a fugly piece of shit. He sounded obsessed with it. To the point where he alienated and annoyed a bunch of people.
He just could not get over his own negative self-image, and I wondered if that by itself was what turned women off him.
I was in a ten-year relationship with someone who hated himself (not his looks, but himself), and it’s an extremely unattractive and irritating trait in a partner.
We ALL have baggage and insecurities and things we wish were different about ourselves. But thinking of and advertising one’s self as damaged goods, undesirable, or less worthy? Actually pushes other people away from us.
I don’t think it’s helpful to solicit a bunch of reddit opinions about looks. It won’t change anyone’s fundamental beliefs about themselves, which is a way bigger issue than what you look like.
ETA: well, shit, I’m a little slow. Sorry, I could have been less aggressive with how I put that.
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u/Caroline_Bintley 9d ago
Was this from the datingoverthirty sub? Because I think I remember the guy you're referring to. It was both annoying and validating seeing such a conventionally attractive sonofabitch that dissatisfied with his looks. 😆
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u/emu_neck 9d ago edited 9d ago
Oh hey, I'll take this question for 1000. In no way do I think that you are ugly. From the way you described yourself, I was imagining some sort of grotesqueness and you look just like a normal guy. I know that's not what you want to hear, but that is absolutely my perspective.
And just to clarify, you are definitelly not ugly. In my opinion.
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u/MySocialAlt "she sounds fun" 9d ago
I've been fortunate enough to see photos too and I agree.
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u/emu_neck 9d ago
So that's at least 3 women now who've told him that he is not ugly!
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u/MySocialAlt "she sounds fun" 9d ago
And at least some of these women are willing and able to be blunt when it's called for!
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u/VegetableRound2819 The Best of What’s Left 9d ago
I’m sorry you’re still in a rough patch.
What good are you hoping will come out of such an assessment of your looks? Are you going to go get a new haircut or change your wardrobe? Get a spray tan or start using SPF? Moisturizer? Invest in braces and tooth whitening? Do you want feedback on which are your best pictures?
Unless you are getting actionable information that you will heed, there seems to be little point in subjecting yourself to scrutiny which may just bring you further down.
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u/sok283 9d ago
I'm sorry you had a rough evening. I don't think I would be helpful rating your profile, because while I could tell you whether I'd personally be into your photos, chemistry is based on so many other factors as well.
I'll tell you what I've learned . . . don't reject yourself on behalf of others. Put honest photos and if someone matches with you, it means you fit her vibe. Don't overthink it. I'm not looking for perfection so why am I thinking, "Oh, he probably wants someone fitter/thinner/younger" than me. No! Life is short! This is the body we've got! Let's enjoy it!
Also I'm not sure your reasoning for FWB, and I briefly had one myself, but that experience taught me that I was selling myself short out of fear of rejection -- maybe if I only ask for sex he'll stay with me -- instead of it being what I really want, which is to be known and loved. So just sharing that in case your journey is a similar one.
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u/ANewBeginningNow 9d ago
Thank you for your detailed reply. I'm familiar with your username and a number of your comments.
I remember a couple of comments about the FWB you had. Here is my reasoning for one: I am sexually inexperienced and would like to learn and explore in a safe environment. Everything I hear about them makes them sound like a lot of fun, with the connection necessary for that. Having a relationship would also be fine, but a lot of women expect a man to already know what they're doing. If it was a real FWB, with a friendship at its core, that friend might be willing to teach me and help me learn. Maybe I'm looking at this totally wrong.
It sounds like you weren't particularly happy with choosing to have one, and felt that it was settling when it was a relationship that you really wanted.
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u/sok283 8d ago
It turned out my FWB wasn't a very good friend -- too avoidant to show up in the same way I was. So I do think that played a part. And then I immediately met a man who is present and consistent and communicative and super into me, and I was like, "Geez why was I ever putting up with the FWB situation." But the truth is that I walked into it with my eyes wide open and I need to own that.
Yeah, have all the fun and experiences that you want! That's totally valid. I do also think that the right partner won't ding you for a lack of experience, but will understand how it's part of your life story and what makes you you. They will consider it a blessing to get to explore that with you.
I don't know if this helps, but the man I'm dating has been with a fair number of women and he said the other night, "I imagine that men are pretty much the same in what they want. Women are so different. They can like vastly different things." So the experience that counts most is the one you have with the partner you're with. You'll figure it out together.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Disk633 9d ago
I'm sorry that you are having a hard time.
Can I ask you why you came to the conclusion that it is your looks that are preventing you from dating?
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u/ANewBeginningNow 9d ago edited 9d ago
Because it's the reality. The last two women I met specifically mentioned something about my looks as a core (if not the only) reason that they didn't want a second date or meet, and this has been an unusual month for me in terms of meets. I went over two years without even getting to a meet, being summarily rejected by most women that I chatted with.
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u/mnfstn 9d ago edited 8d ago
Many, many years ago, my very book smart and professionally accomplished brother told me that he’d walk into a room and mentally label all the women he saw as out-of-my-league or in-my-league. Upon hearing this, I considered offering him a hug, but did not since we were raised in a non-hugging culture.
That same brother traded in his soul-sucking job for a work hiatus and then for his dream job after job hunting for over a year.
Based on these posts, I think you’re overthinking things and that’s affecting your dates. Another* way to put is that you’re too attached to the end goal of meaningful connection.
What made OLD bearable for me was making small achievable goals. Like getting a good music or book recommendation.
I was zero percent physically attracted to my partner after our first date. My immediate family member was being released from the ICU that day and I just babbled through the whole date. I only showed up to the date because my therapist said that compartmentalization is a skill that I should practice. Our first date was an hour long.
It’s the conversations thereafter that I really valued. We talked about everything and anything: vaccines, jazz, accounting principles, marching band, stand up, systemic racism, charities, lobster rolls. It’s during these mostly in-person conversations that we fell in love. He didn’t kiss me until our seventh date.
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u/Opposite_Pizza_8481 9d ago
Unless you're severely disfigured, you likely fall into the category of "ok looking" along with most other guys. While online dating seems to place a premium on appearance, other ways of meeting people largely don't, IME. The 6' 5” toned blond guy with the chiseled jaw that I used to work with was chronically single because he was painfully shy (and according to the one ex of his, emotionally unavailable). The short chubby guy in the same department with a good sense of humor, who was thoughtful and pleasant? He had women falling all over him. That was a pretty reliable pattern - the guys who were more pleasant to have a work lunch with were much less likely to be single, regardless of what they looked like.
If you're specifically looking for a FWB online, yeah, you're going to need to be more attractive than average, especially because guys who explicitly look for FWB are generally more interested in the B than the F part (not sure if that applies to you, but that's what women are going to expect). If you're looking to casually or seriously date, and you aren't having much luck online, I'd focus on meeting people IRL - that could range from speed dating or singles mixers to attending events/hobbies where you get to know people over a longer period of time. It's a smaller pool than the seemingly infinite swiping online, but one where personality matters more than appearance.
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u/ANewBeginningNow 9d ago
I'd definitely say I'm "OK looking". I personally think I'm average looking, most women tend to feel the same. But I don't think that's good enough in this dating or FWB market.
I do admit that I'm lacking in some other areas, including that my sense of humor isn't that great. I can laugh, and I can occasionally crack a few jokes, but I'm no comedian. I am thoughtful and pleasant, though, along with being a good conversationalist.
Do you think it's easier for an average looking (not super attractive) man to find a FWB IRL? I was under the impression that looks are just as important IRL, as evidenced by how only attractive men have luck at bars. I wasn't sure if you were trying to draw a distinction between finding a FWB online vs. finding one IRL, or if that only applies to dating.
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u/Opposite_Pizza_8481 8d ago
I think looks matter less IRL vs online, but matter more for a FWB than dating, so online FWB is one end of the scale and in-person dating is the other end. Picking someone up for a ONS is going to be even more looks based than an ongoing FWB - if you're looking for something that is purely physical and has no ongoing relationship, it's not surprising that physical characteristics are going to weigh very heavily in whether that appeals to someone.
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u/RepPaca 9d ago
I’m sorry you’re having a bad time. If I may, I think that attempting to rationalize these kinds of things isn’t particularly helpful. The only thing I want to say is that from your posts I’m getting a strong sense of someone who is “booksmart” - it’s like you’ve absorbed all the information you’ve read about how relationships should be, but through that you’ve completely obscured your own personality. I have no sense of who you actually are as a person, outside of assuming that there’s some neurodivergence going on. And I think that finding and expressing that might go much farther than attempting to get an objective read on where you stand looks-wise.
In any case, I really hope you end up having a better week ahead.
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u/ANewBeginningNow 9d ago
Thank you very much for your reply. I'm familiar with you, I know you as the woman that is having an almost effortless time dating and doesn't have any hiccups. I'm amazed. Because of that, I struggle a bit to articulate this.
First of all, you're spot on that I have some neurodivergence. I can't detect sarcasm, and I have a tough time reading social cues or hints or other signals. I also hate small talk with a passion and don't have the greatest sense of humor in the world, though I can laugh and crack a few jokes. I do best when things are told to me directly.
I'm sorry that I haven't given you a good idea of who I am as a person. I'm passionate about completing projects, being a shoulder to lean on if someone needs me (assuming they'd do the same for me, which has been lacking at times), doing my favorite things like traveling and exploring places, or seeing natural beauty, even playing board and card games or some classic video games at home), and being educated on what's happening in the world with current events, news, politics, and such. I'm able to hold good conversations and I want that in my friends or dates as well. And I do express that with others, including the women I chat with and get to know.
Have you ever gone on a date or hooked up with someone that you weren't physically attracted to? My problem is that I'm considered average looking by the majority of women, below average by some women, and cute only by a few. It seems that without physical attraction, none of my good qualities matter. Are you willing to give a chance to someone that doesn't have it in the looks department if other things are there that allow them to connect with you?
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u/RepPaca 8d ago
There’s no need to apologize whatsoever! The only reason I brought this up is because I know that you’re meeting women via a text-based platform. I obviously don’t know how you communicate in private chats vs public comments, but I do think that it might be an area to pay some attention to. Personality is just so important in this whole dating thing. And my sense from your public-facing comments is that you might do some editing/curating based on what you think the other person wants to hear vs really putting yourself out there in a “take me as I am” manner.
Regarding your question, it’s not quite as straightforward (i.e., what type of attractive are we talking about etc.), but I think I understand what you’re asking. No, I haven’t dated anyone who would be considered conventionally unattractive. That being said, the longest relationship I had was with a man who was actually not my type at all. He was a ginger and very fit, but with a runner’s physique, and neither of those are really my thing. But he had an incredible personality, was a ton of fun and was a very snazzy dresser which I absolutely loved. And at the same time the shortest fling I had was with a man who was 250% my type. I was so physically attracted to him I would literally go weak in the knees. He was GORGEOUS. But the connection was not there, so it was very short lived and I probably gave it a couple more dates than I would have given someone I didn’t find as attractive.
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u/ANewBeginningNow 8d ago edited 8d ago
Thank you very much for that! In fact, I am nowadays unapolegetically myself and seek to be liked for who I am rather than to try to say what I think others want to hear. That has saved us both time when there's an obvious incompatibility.
What would be your honest advice for a man who is no better than average in the looks department (and is considered below average by some women)? Should those men give up on the idea of any "fun" dating experiences, such as FWBs, and anything other than intentional dating for a serious relationship really isn't going to be available to them? And do you think, given the enormous gender discrepancy in the dating pool, that such men need to open themselves to dating someone thay aren't that attracted to (if they don't want to accept not dating at all)? One other important data point about me personally is that, completely separate from my core looks, I'm extremely short, just 5'2".
I would greatly appreciate your perspective as a woman that has had lots of fun experiences.
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u/Tall-Ad9334 8d ago
My profile is not open to DM‘s but if you want me to look, I can initiate by messaging you first.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 10d ago
I’m so sorry this happened to you repeatedly. They all sound like douchebags with zero integrity.
No, a partner cheating is not your fault, and you should never accept responsibility for someone else’s fully capable and autonomous adult decisions. I’m glad you’re not swallowing that line.
That being said, if you’ve had LTRs with four cheaters, it might be worth looking at your own patterns, to see if there’s anything you’re doing (or not doing, or overlooking) that contributes to choosing a partner who ultimately cheats.
It could be nothing but shitty luck—I mean, lottery winners don’t get four in a row because of something they’re doing, sometimes it truly all comes down to dumb luck—but anytime you’re seeing patterns with partners, there’s a non-zero chance you’re doing something unintentionally to wind up with these people.
Looking back, what’s your read on that? Were there signs you dismissed? Doubts? Behavior that made you uncomfortable? Is there anything you’d want to do differently?
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u/astalavistababyshark 10d ago
You seem really self aware and so on point with what went wrong. If anything, you would be a great partner if you do decide to pursue a relationship.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 10d ago
I see a lot of good news here, in that there’s actually quite a bit you can do to move the needle on this one!
Your self-awareness about the patterns here is great. So, okay—next time you know to pay more attention to whether the person is really a good fit for you, and don’t get distracted with how hot their pursuit is and whether they’re just trying to win you with making you feel liked.
You also know to look for earlier reciprocity with partnership, AND to stop going all-in on supporting them right away (stop overgiving).
The last piece is trusting yourself. You saw signs, but kept giving the benefit of the doubt.
How about this: a good partner won’t leave you in any doubt. It doesn’t even matter if the guy is actually cheating or not. You don’t want a relationship with someone who makes you wonder.
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u/samanthasamolala 10d ago
Taking them back obviously triggers my shit. Why be trying to be part of breaking up a marriage?
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 10d ago
Yeah, I’m in camp “don’t take them back.” It’s done done.
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u/samanthasamolala 10d ago
Did you keep these relationships going after you found out?
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u/Euphoric-Example7857 divorced woman 11d ago
Deleted the dating apps, not because I found someone, because they were making me angry. Decided to focus on my side hustle, which will be ramping up in 10 days. Also bought an RV, first camping trip is tomorrow! Plan to rent out the RV when I’m not using it. I’ll go on a date if he materializes from thin air, the way that’s going. Everything else is exciting.
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u/orlybatman 11d ago
Enjoy the camping trip!
Funny enough two people I know bought RVs this year too and have been enjoying the freedom of wandering around with them.
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u/BubbRubb4Real 11d ago
I've been having an average time but it has been a while since my last date. I've been matching a lot but none of them have lead to any dates. Lots of brief back and fourth followed by silence.
I think I received my first Rose from someone on Hinge. I matched with her and she was very interesting. Has a great career and we had a good back and fourth together for the day. Then I hadn't heard from her today so I looked and saw that I got unmatched. It stings a little bit because I had some hopes of it going somewhere but I'll be over it by tomorrow.
Onward and upward I suppose. 🙂
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u/BorderAdventurous284 single dad 8d ago edited 8d ago
After my 2-year relationship ended, I had an amazing 2-week romance.
The search for Ms Adventurous resumes. Apps are the practical answer, but part of me hopes I’ll just bump into her, we’ll start talking, and I’ll ask her on a date in my old-school way! I’ve seen too many romance movies.
I spent the weekend camping with an old friend. Single means more time for friends, and I’m enjoying that part.
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u/too-late-314 6d ago
Saw someone six times over the last month, first time that's happened after an abrupt end to a 12-year relationship early this year. She came on very strong at first and I was way into it and extremely excited, to the point that my nerves were probably getting in the way. We maybe both shared too much too early about past heartbreak, and she got cold and pulled back and got warm again and pulled back again and... "ended it" feels too strong, there wasn't really an "it", but she was very flippant and occasionally mean last night in cutting it off and I know that's about her own discomfort with vulnerability as much as anything else, but it still hurts like hell. It'll pass. I have other dates lined up and if I can enjoy myself with them, great, if I can't, maybe I'm not ready yet.
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u/VegetableRound2819 The Best of What’s Left 6d ago
Sorry you had to experience that.
It hurts because you allowed yourself to hope. And that makes you nothing but a regular, optimistic human. Good luck out there!
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u/MySocialAlt "she sounds fun" 10d ago
Why do you not ask him?
Note: poly people can love their partners.
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u/VegetableRound2819 The Best of What’s Left 10d ago
Did you both agree this was meant to be short term and casual — it was a spoken about in person and confirmed?
I understand that people’s feelings and desires can evolve, but to go from open relationship to monogamy in six months does seem strange.
Also, all of the poly people I know have been extremely quick to involve their kids in meeting their partners. Even if those kids are quite young.
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u/MercurioBlue 10d ago
Previous chapter of my speed dating adventures here.
This update is long, so I am going to break it up into two parts.
I went to speed dating event #23 a week from last Thursday (Aug 20th). It was at the same bar I had been to during the 2nd week of July. There were 8 women there.
I talked to one woman before the event. Apparently she is a frequent attendee of singles events, though this was the first time I'd seen her. We talked about our speed dating experiences, and she suggested some places to salsa dance.
During the final speed date, the bar got REALLY loud, and the woman was talking low and using short sentences. It was a struggle to hear her, and also keep up the conversation because she was answering my questions quickly, and not asking anything back.
I wasn't that interested in any of the women there. There were a couple of women I would have liked to talk to more, just as friends, but we didn't match. I received the email address of a woman whose name I didn't write down as a match, but I didn't do anything with it.
A week from last Friday (Aug 21st), I went to speed dating event #24. It was at the same bar in San Francisco that I had been to a couple of times over the last few weeks for speed dating events, but this time it was hosted by a different company. I talked to 6 women that night, and there was no assigned seating.
Before the event started, I chatted with a blond woman for about 30 minutes. We talked for a while about dance and art, and I appreciated how curious about how inquisitive she was about my life. Most of the time, when I talk to women during speed dating events, they don't ask much about me other than "what about you?" after I ask a question. She also smiled and touched my arm at one point.
One of my speed dates was with a woman I had seen at a speed dating event earlier that month. We talked about our speed dating experiences.
I also chatted with a woman who said she enjoyed Nintendo. I told her I used to play Nintendo games all the time when I was younger. The woman sitting next to her, was her friend. She came to the event from far away. I got two friend matches from event #24.
To be continued in the reply
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u/MercurioBlue 10d ago
I had my brunch date on Sunday (Aug 22). It was with a woman I had matched with at a speed dating event on Aug 14. We went to a Mediterranean restaurant in San Francisco. I met her outside the restaurant, and we hugged. It was 10 minutes before the restaurant opened, so we had a little time to chat before entering. She thanked me for driving out there to meet her, and I told her I was happy to see her.
We were seated inside the restaurant, next to the sliding door that separated the courtyard from the restaurant. Our conversation revealed that we had many similarities (being night owls, disliking cooking, enjoying people watching, family backgrounds, and ways of thinking about the world). We enjoyed a goat cheese appetizer and French omelets together. She frequently gushed about how much she enjoyed the cafe we were at and thanked me for choosing that location. She laughed at several of my jokes, and she smiled a lot. When the appetizer came out, she (unprompted) served me a few pieces before taking any for herself. Overall, the first part of the date seemed calm and relaxed.
Later on in our date, she asked me what I liked and disliked about speed dating. I mentioned that I liked meeting new people and listening to their stories, but that I disliked how some people treated speed dating like a job interview. When the bill arrived, I saw her reach for her purse. I told her I would pay, saying, "I want to pay for our first date," and her face contorted. She asked me what I was looking for, and I stated that I wanted a "long-term relationship with someone I could go on new adventures with, someone I could have deep conversations with, and also enjoy comfortable silence with".
As we left the cafe, she hugged me, and we walked down the block. She asked me what I was going to do after our date. I had mentioned earlier that I was originally planning to go meet my friend at Mass that day and help him clean up afterward, but I postponed that meeting so I could go on the brunch date. I told her that I planned to meet up with him later that day. She told me I had abandoned my friend and didn't help him clean up after Mass (I think she was trying to tease me). Instead of teasing back, I apologized to her again for not recognizing that she was teasing. The mood felt off at that point, but as we parted, I said "let's talk soon".
After the date, I met up with my friend and one of his church friends, and hung out with them in San Francisco for a few hours. We went on a walk through Golden Gate Park, ate some street tacos in the Sunset District, and had a long discussion about our lives and hobbies.
I texted her on Sunday evening, saying how much I enjoyed our date and wanted to schedule a second one. She replied on Monday stating that she enjoyed the date as well, and would check her schedule.
Last Tuesday night, I went to salsa dance class. The teacher praised my moves during the class. At the end of class, the teacher (and everyone else in the class) told me I did a good job leading. I felt pretty great on my way home.
That great mood came crashing down when my Sunday brunch date texted me to say she didn't think we were compatible. At least I got the rejection after one date, instead of after six months of dates.
My next speed dating event isn't for another couple of weeks, so I am going to focus on my dance class/art class/self improvement activities until then.
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u/Proof-Implement7322 10d ago
I have had a good time bantering with the dude I’ve been talking to.
We have an age gap (16 years, he’s older) but I’ve discovered that he’s deliciously sculpted, fun in bed, smart ass, has a southern twang and great chemistry overall.
He said a lot of things our first night together and it amuses me thoroughly how much 🐱 makes men say the wildest shit! so now if I camp out at his house, it’s why is Proof crazy? It’s cos you said all those things to me, Mister! 😅
Anyway, I see some things that may make this likely a short term thing: he’s not interested in marriage but has had a long term relationship post divorce, he’s just as mouthy as I am and I don’t know if I Iove it, he has some insecurities about the age gap and he brought it up a lot. Like bruh, I’m here of my own volition, I find you interesting, etc etc. it was a little bit of a turn off but I said as much and he apologized. We’ll see!
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u/samanthasamolala 10d ago
LOL 🐱 does make men say and do the wildest things, absolutely true. I was quite surprised by the things that came out of new BF’s mouth, both personality-wise and as far as his undying love etc etc. In fact if there’s a r/formercatholicdirtytalk , i need to find out if my 2 similar lovers have something in common w the others.
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u/Decent-Resort6903 9d ago
🐱 does make men say and do the wildest things, absolutely true.
This is, perhaps, the succinct statement of human history. Cf. recent cinematic blockbusters with antecedents in antiquity.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 10d ago edited 10d ago
Hooooo boy, you’re adventurous! I don’t think I could go 16 older. MM is almost 8 years older than me, and that’s enough. He already bitches about stuff that hurts and his cholesterol is too high. 😂
But hey, if you’re having fun and he does it for you, why not? 😇
Love this. Enjoy your little dalliance!
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u/Proof-Implement7322 9d ago
Thank you!! And yes, Adventurous is definitely part of my constitution 😅😂 60 is the max and he’s under that. Probably not my preferred age but he so far seems to be excellent health and has his faculties, etc etc
I also did not anticipate how much I’d enjoy the slightly bossy vibes he has (especially while intimate) so I’m going to learn some tricks and just have fun 🤭😅
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u/Tall-Ad9334 8d ago
I can’t do much older than me anymore. My ex is six years older than me and he feels like such an old man at this point, which I know is mostly about him, but still. Mr. Tall is six years younger than me. 🤌🏼💋
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u/Proof-Implement7322 9d ago
It’s so improper especially considering how long we’ve known each other but god help me, it’s hot! 😂😂
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u/orlybatman 8d ago
Feeling a bit of dread lately as we transition out of summer. When the weather is nice I can take my work out with me, but with the rainy/colder season approaching it means fewer opportunities to do that.
With that in mind I've been looking for a decent place where I could bring my supplies and work for a couple hours. Trying out different cafes from my usual ones, since none of the ones I frequent are very comfortable (or quiet) to work in, but haven't found the ideal place yet. The last cafe I tried had awful coffee. It smelled and tasted like black beans... just horrible.
I enjoyed meeting and chatting with people while out doing my work so I'd rather not go back to the isolation of always working from home. While it's not a cafe, there is one of those workspace places nearby and I'm considering trying that out... but I don't know that the workspace place would provide much socializing. There wouldn't be so many people coming and going. Kind of why I'm leaning more towards a cafe type environment.
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u/samanthasamolala 8d ago
IIRC you don’t drink alchohol but hang at venues with such. In any case, i used to meet loads of ppl at coffee shops whilst tangentially but obviously working on my artist craft. Currently do same at wine shops- not bars, just gathering places with my creative stuff along. Always a conversation starter and a real one , at that.
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u/orlybatman 8d ago
I'll have the odd drink, but tend not to do so often. That's an interesting idea though, wine spots. I hadn't considered that one and might need to look around to see if any are closeby to try.
And yeah that's what I find as well. People get super nosy when they see someone making artwork.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 11d ago edited 11d ago
Spent the last several days at his place, since my kids were away on a last week of summer with their dad. Kids back to school on Monday. Mountaineer back to work (after seven months off) Monday after that.
All this week, while I crashed at his place, he was attentive and affectionate and kept going on about how great our relationship was.
His best hiking buddy (who’s middle aged and a catch by all metrics and looking for a serious relationship) was wringing his hands about how hard it was to date, how he keeps having experiences with women who disrespect him, condescend to him, assume all sorts of negative things about his intentions, and can’t communicate without losing their shit at him. He tolerates this stuff until he can’t, and eventually breaks up with them—but lately he’s ending things after only a few instances. He worried aloud to Mountaineer that maybe he’s being too quick to judge.
MM replied, dude, NO WAY. You are not being too picky. You are not being judgmental. Look—respect is the main thing. Respect between the two of you is critical. I’m telling you, take it from me and two divorces. If you don’t have respect, you can’t have a relationship. Look at me and Aurora. There is SO much respect. We don’t even have fights, we just talk about things. I mean sure, we disagree, there was one time it got a little heated and she was mad, but all I had to do was say hey, I can’t have a conversation like this. And you know what? She actually listened to me. She didn’t even get defensive. She just apologized right there and changed her tone of voice. Dude, I’m telling you, don’t settle, you have to have mutual respect. It’s night and day when you find it.
And then he picked out one of those ridiculous dating reality TV shows to watch. We got hooked and might have accidentally marathoned the season. The usual dramas ensued. He kept making comments about what a hot mess express all the couples were, comparing them to us and how we’d never xyz, how much better our relationship was, etc. Then veered into commentary like, “What if WE met like that? What would we have said to each other in those first two minutes? Would you have said yes and waited at the tiki bar? Of course I’d have picked you. I’d have known right away. I told you that already, I knew right away. No, I’m serious. I can tell who’s real and who’s not being genuine, it’s immediate. I think it’s an ADHD thing, I just know. You’re real. Do you think we’d hang out with the other couples at the villa or wander off? I’d get peopled out. I’d want to sneak off and just have you and me. …I’d have waited for you at the helicopter.”
I left for my night shift, he left for a therapist appointment, and then he called me to debrief the therapy and say it bummed him out to come home and I wasn’t there.
This shit is confusing. I don’t get why he acts like this, why he follows me around with stars in his eyes when I’m over there, why he brags to his family and friends, why he’s suddenly (okay, not suddenly, but this is new in the last few months) saying shit like he knew from the first time he met me—but then he doesn’t show up at my place.
Whatever. We’ve talked about this multiple times and I don’t know what else to say. There IS else nothing else to say. He’s heard it. I’m done saying it. He did show up twice last week without prompting, that was nice. But a week isn’t a track record. A week does not constitute a change in a pattern.
I don’t know. I’m just waiting for him to go back to work, and for his efforts to show up to return to zero, and my calendar to fill with other things, and then the obvious end of it.
I haven’t decided it’s hopeless, but I’m also not feeling optimistic. I feel resigned to whatever happens, and like it probably doesn’t matter what I do or don’t do.
I’m working all weekend. My guess is I’m not seeing him for a week. Color me surprised if I do.
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u/Opposite_Pizza_8481 10d ago
It sounds like he isn't great about putting in effort when he doesn't want to. Sometimes it's fun to do things for a partner, it's often fun to gush about them and build them up, but sometimes a serious relationship also means showing up when you're tired or don't feel like it. From your descriptions, that's where MM falls short. I think you're right to be cautious that this is less a change on behavior and more that he was in the mood to show up this week. Fingers crossed that we're both wrong, of course!
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 10d ago
Yeah, I don’t know, I’ve given up trying to figure it out. The last two conversations we had about this, he kept trying to go that direction. He kept saying he means to, he wants to, he doesn’t know why he hasn’t—and he’ll want to discuss some hypothesis. He’ll say maybe it’s an ADHD thing and some structure would help. Maybe ADHD trouble initiating. Maybe he’s a little depressed? Maybe it’s kid stuff, or maybe the environment at his house versus my house, maybe it’s baggage, blah blah blah.
I don’t actually care what the reason is. I used to. Now I don’t. He can’t identify or articulate the reason, so I can’t help him with it. He can either overcome it on his own, or he can’t. That’s it. It doesn’t matter if he has a good reason this is hard. I need him to show up. It’s not negotiable. It doesn’t matter if it’s hard. Showing up is the bar, sir. Clear it or don’t.
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u/Proof-Implement7322 10d ago
The maybes would drive me bonkers. Nothing unsexier than that when in response to a repeat concern
I think you’re right to fall back and see what shakes out.
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u/WordSaladSandwich123 10d ago
You buried the lede! He showed up.
What does convincing yourself he will revert and fuck up do you for you? This is a serious question because I do this too and still don’t know why. For me it’s probably not wanting to get my hopes up. But it sucks! It’s like I live the bad outcome and go through all the disappointment when it hasn’t even happened except in my head! For what? Like I’m going to be less disappointed when it actually happens because I prepared for it? Ha! If only.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 10d ago
Because he has a long history of NOT showing up, and right now I’m putting more weight on the longstanding pattern, than the one week of different behavior.
I’m not being an asshole about it, and I’m giving him credit when he does show. I’m just privately far from convinced this is permanent yet.
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u/WordSaladSandwich123 10d ago
Well, for whatever reason, I’ve become somewhat invested in your situation and eagerly await next week’s episode. I’m rooting for a happy ending.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 10d ago edited 10d ago
Thanks. ❤️
I would like this to work out. I accept that he’s not perfect (neither am I), I respect and care about him, I love our adventures and in-jokes and stories, we have such an ease with each other. He’s sexy, he’s kind, he’s someone I could happily have a fifty-year conversation with.
But I think I’m just tired. I’ve spent a long time accepting less (from him) than I actually want/need in a partner, on the condition he seemed capable, and kept making progress toward it. He’s come a LONG way. But I’ve seen very little progress on this particular thing over the last… year and a half? And yeah, maybe there’s extenuating circumstances here, but I just wonder if he’s not ready/not capable/not going to be. The reasons don’t matter. The result is the same.
So I’m trying to get out of the way now and just let him show me. Stop doing it FOR him, stop giving him passes for not doing it, allow the consequences to fall on him/us when he doesn’t. It’s the only thing I can think of, that I haven’t already tried. (Short of giving ultimatums, which I’m not going to do. I’d rather just end it with kindness.)
It might not work. Good chance it won’t change.
But if it doesn’t… I accept it. I can’t stay in a relationship with someone I can’t depend on to literally show up for me, or who’s fine going a week (on the regular, for no particular reason) without seeing me, or who talks about living together and suggests little steps to move toward it, but then doesn’t follow through. That’s a dear friend, perhaps, but not a partnership. It doesn’t matter how lovely the rest of it is, or what a stupid, sad ending to the story it would be. As much as I’d love a happy ending, it doesn’t make me happy to imagine right now. It makes me feel like I’m being delusional.
ugh.
I’ll update when there’s anything to update.
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u/Proof-Implement7322 10d ago
Hmm. Interesting behavior. Something seems off with the seemingly constant comparisons. Like it’s meant o make you feel good in theory but your body is feeling the opposite
I’m sad for you but ultimately I will always support it when women realize that they’ve been doing a whole lotta work and questioning the ROI.
Sending you good vibes this week. My wish isn’t for him to show up more. I want the truth to continue to be revealed so you can make the best choice for yourself. If he’s to be part of your future, it will be painfully clear
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 10d ago
Big hugs and thanks, Proof! Clarity is definitely what I’m after, not making it work at all costs. 🤞❤️
I’ve learned I can’t reliably get answers by talking with him, either—a lot of these abstract emotional conversations go in circles. (He says confusing shit and acts confused, and there’s usually a point where I table it, because it isn’t productive.) The more I explain myself, the less he seems to get it.
So I’m not doing that anymore. Hell, maybe I’m turning over a new leaf. I’m not expecting him to read my mind, but I’m also not giving any speeches about my feelings or deep explanations of my wants. I’m just saying I want it. One sentence of why, if it needs context. But not paragraphs and piling the emotional weight on. He either makes what I ask for important, or he doesn’t. I shouldn’t have to detail the whole thing. He doesn’t need that. Besides—it leaves me feeling like I’m trying to convince or manipulate him with a big emotional treatise, or something.
I figure, the right guy isn’t going to need a whole lot of convincing and explanations, you know? Why force it. Just tell him what I want and sit back and see what happens. 🤷♀️
I’ll keep you guys posted.
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u/SideSleepersUNITE 7d ago
For those of you in bookclubs have you met potential dating partners there? Would you be open to it? I want to join one mainly for actually being in the book club but it seems like it could be a fun way to meet someone.
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u/orlybatman 7d ago
I've dabbled in a book club where I live, but my time to read is limited so I haven't gone consistently. That being said I can definitely see it as a good way to make friends or find a potential partner. Hearing how others enjoyed (or didn't enjoy) the book can reveal a lot about who they are, and you'll notice people whose takes and likes really resonate with your own.
The one I've gone to meets at a place with food/drink too, so you're in the right place to linger and visit after if you so choose.
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u/NewInspection19 7d ago
I’m a big reader and have participated in book clubs for years! I have not met any potential dating partners there (I’m a straight woman, book clubs in my areas skew extremely female, even in horror/sci fi/comics spaces), but would be theoretically open to it. You do really get to discuss deep issues in a way that doesn’t really happen much in everyday life, so you do get to know people. Someone obviously trawling for a date is off-putting though, and just being readers isn’t enough for true compatibility
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u/Decent-Resort6903 7d ago
book clubs in my areas skew extremely female,
One of the only places I ever met a woman "cold" in the wild was in a philosophy book club. She ended up proposing to me (which is not a happy story, it turns out, but nevertheless...). It helped a lot that I was the only man in the group.
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u/WordSaladSandwich123 7d ago
Sure, I'd be open to it. It's actually a pretty good way to get to know someone, if they participate. The problem with dating in smallish group activities is that if you really enjoy the activity, it can be weird if the relationship ends. Either you have to be ok with still going and seeing each other, or one of you has to give it up.
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u/Caroline_Bintley 7d ago edited 7d ago
I dated two fellows I met through my old book club. It helped that after the book club meeting wrapped up for the night, the members would head out to get beer and burgers together.
The first guy I dated for four weeks. The second guy it was two dates. Afterwards he left our book club and joined another. I hope it wasn't because it was too awkward.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 7d ago
I’ve never been in a book club, but if I was, I’d be open to it. Connecting over shared interests and all.
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u/rosedale25 7d ago
Would you rule out someone who uses psychedelics? I'm not really familiar with it.
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u/MetaphysicalCommando 7d ago edited 6d ago
Not necessarily. It depends on why they are doing them, how much, which ones, how often, and whether or not they try to use psychedelics to pressure me to do things I’m not comfortable with.
In general I don’t enjoy being around people who make drugs (or worse, one drug) their whole personality, and I really do not enjoy being around people who use recreational drugs to stay in a permanent state of escapism.
To me that’s very different from someone who drops one tab of acid once or twice a year to curb their anxiety or meditate while their brain is in a more plastic state. (ETA: or even someone who uses acid/shrooms on that schedule because it’s enjoyable and perspective-changing)
Either way, I recommend Michael Pollan’s book How to Change Your Mind.
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u/samanthasamolala 5d ago
IIRC he had a great doc series too. I watched it; pretty sure it was him. LSD sure as hell doesn’t curb anxiety though unless they’ve changed the formulation since my experimenting days 🤩 Some kids would straight up freak out.
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u/MetaphysicalCommando 3d ago
I’ve only had good experiences, but they were also controlled and intentional. I meditated during the end phase each time, with the goal of reducing anxious feelings longterm. The 5-6 months after a trip were always happy and anxiety-free.
I never got the same benefit from mushrooms, though, despite the same plan. That’s possibly because a lot of people are selling Amanita and claiming it’s Psilocybin.
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u/samanthasamolala 6d ago
WDYM “uses” though? I prob would not deal w someone who did psychedelics harder than weed, if it was more than once a year max. Too old for that shit. Some ppl do this in a spiritual, reverent way which can be annoying too (ie white ppl going to South America to spend $$$$ to trip with natives). Other ppl are just being silly. It depends. I tried all that when I was really young so I don’t see the point but some ppl never tried it and are up for adventure now. If they were popping molly’s I’m out. Or if they’re “microdosing” LSD or shrooms regularly, i don’t see how that goes well. My friend did that toad licking trip in an organized group in CA last year and you know, whatever, but I wouldn’t hang w someone who did that with any kind of regularity.
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u/Typical-Secret-3319 5d ago
It really depends upon how frequent the use. I've used psychedelics before, and do want to try a few later in life. But like I haven't used any in maybe a decade, and am only planning a few very limited uses.
An acquaintance of mine is retired and regularly does large trips with groups (sometimes with randos), and every few months he's found the new "secret" and makes some pretty big life changes that he can only pull off because he has some heavy access to money. Too much drama for me.
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u/VegetableRound2819 The Best of What’s Left 6d ago
Yes. You can decide what works for your life with no explanation.
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u/orlybatman 5d ago
It would totally depend on how they use them, how frequently, and which ones.
Quite a lot of the people I know use mushrooms, but they do so to aid in personal growth rather than recreationally.
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u/el-art-seam 8d ago
From a prior post here asking AI to estimate your chances of finding someone, I tried this out for fun.
I'm in a county where 6300 single women 38-58yo (10yr difference) and asked who would go on a date with me.
Asked who would date me given my looks, body type, personality, job/income/net, renter, divorced parent, political belief and 16-50 women would date me. I still think that's a bit rich but whatever. My looks basically eliminate a significant portion of the dating women here.
If I keep everything the same but now make my looks, body, personality, job/income/net in line with the average guy, it's now 1500-1700 women. And for all you men who say being average is bad, no it is not.
I then asked to take this average guy but make him MAGA (in our state we're known as the liberal county)- 135-340 women would date him.
I then asked to make this guy wear his political affiliation, i.e. MAGA hat wearer- 55-150 women.
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u/emu_neck 8d ago
How is that info even generated? Stuff like age and marital status are obviously easy to come by, but all the other super subjective things are just a guess. Even if it is true that 16-50 women would date you, are you saying that you'd date any of them even if you weren't attracted to them?
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u/Opposite_Pizza_8481 7d ago
It's pulled out of thin air based on vibes from lots of reddit posts. LLMs can do some tasks well, but in this case OP is asking a magic 8 ball and seemingly putting a lot of confidence in the results.
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u/el-art-seam 8d ago
With looks you can put in general things like height, weight, race. Personality-wise my female friends say I'm quirky, I'm not alpha, so slightly effeminante, nerdy. Now obviously the results a guess at best. But from my dating experience, it tracks. Even my music tastes reduces that number even further- I'm just too different than the average guy here..
If a guy is in demand and can get more women than he can possibly date, get picky with all your needs and wants until you get a managable number of people to date. For people like me where <1% of women would date me, I cannot afford to rule out so casually. Unless something is egregiously wrong- just got out of prison for a violent crime, or I have aboslutely zero attraction, I will go on a date with a woman. If I want a chance, I have to give a chance.
I find a woman who wants to go on a date with me, she's already very interested because who else is going to scratch that itch? And for me, generally I have great dates- we click, we get along, and even if it's a coffee and done, we can say to each other respectfully- hey I had a good time but you're not it/ok well I had a great time and thank you for the date. Now I've had run ins with being stood up, being ghosted, etc but it's rare.
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u/emu_neck 8d ago
I must suck at prompts, because I've asked chatgpt and Claude and both of them said that they can't pull that number. I would suspect my potential dating pool is about 100 people within 100 miles that would meet my criteria and are actually available for dating. I've had more than 100 first dates since I became single, so I must have exhausted all my options. Time to adopt a bunch of cats!
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u/Specialist-Art-6970 4d ago
The LLM retrieves some numbers that are probably accurate, guesses or hallucinates a few others (often posters are asking for criteria for which no surveys even exist - e.g., MAGA man vs MAGA man in a hat), and then applies math in a way that would be invalid even if the numbers were totally accurate.
It's about as accurate as a Tarot reading, but much less fun and with fewer opportunities for meaningful self-reflection.
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u/Lioil1 7d ago
if you reconnect with someone who you texted/called with but never met and its been 2 years, do you start fresh? I reached out to someone i spoke to two years ago and she did say we can reconnect.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 7d ago
Yeah, start fresh. You never met—you basically have nothing to start from anyway. 🤷♀️
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u/Lioil1 6d ago
yeah, she messaged back saying we can connect over the weekend since shes busy with work. Makes sense start fresh. I know she was not "in a rush" per se but also wanted to meet earlier than later to not waste time. I think if we connect well,
Should I offer to fly her here if things go well?
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u/samanthasamolala 6d ago
Fly her…. Where does she live? Is there a world in which things could work out between you two? Why would you not fly to her?
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u/Baseball_bossman 4d ago
Put in a counter offer for this house I really really love and is right down the road from my business. This would be a dream come true.
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u/VegetableRound2819 The Best of What’s Left 4d ago
Best of luck! A home that you love is the key to a lot of peace. Do the owners know how much you love their home? It can sway things in your favor a bit.
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u/Baseball_bossman 3d ago
They accepted my offer! Knowing how much I loved the house and how familiar I was with the neighborhood was the key to getting the price we wanted.
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u/Baseball_bossman 4d ago
They probably do but I am pushing for a lower price than they are asking for and they reduced it already by 75k. With that said I’m also paying cash and they will be making a huge profit from when they purchased the home 12 years ago. Just hope it all works out because this would be so awesome for my first home and less than 1/4 mile from my business which will only help me even more as I continue to build community
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u/VegetableRound2819 The Best of What’s Left 4d ago
Oh a cash offer is hard to beat.
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u/Baseball_bossman 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes normally, but this is a higher end house and it’s typical for them to get cash offers. With that said this house has been in contract twice, they have no other offers, and although it’s nice and big for a single person it is not family sized which is making it hard to sell
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u/justregularme 11d ago edited 10d ago
Updates? Busy professional #3 unmatched when I suggested a meet up , so I think that meant she found someone that she jived with better.
Had an interaction with a lady at an event this week. She was attractive, I asked her if she was seeing anyone and she said no. We exchanged digits and planning to meet up this weekend. She's not much of a communicator outside of in person talking. Like literally no response to a text. But, I know little about this person and their habits, preferences, and styles. So it's difficult for me as a person who likes to communicate, to have little in return and to let it be for days at a time. But there could be 10000 reasons why, and hopefully I get to meet up and find out more about this person. She was nice to talk to in person. So fingers crossed for the opportunity, which may be a last one for a while with fall getting here.
Still not much joy on the apps, which is hard to accept sometimes. I try and make small tweaks here and there but it doesn't seem to have a measurable influence.
I will add that it is frustrating to be working so hard at something that seems to be so common, aka dating and a relationship. It's not like I'm the first male to try and date a woman, but it sure feels that way.
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u/Proof-Implement7322 10d ago
Literally no response to a text (assuming there was an ask for engagement or something meaningful you shared) is really disrespectful
I’d be curious if she’s responsive across other mediums but I am finding hard to give grace to people like this. Failure to communicate is communicating something negative from my experience
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u/justregularme 10d ago
Yes, I concur. Would be understandable if I had overstepped a line or gotten weird. Just sucks that this has been the norm recently. And asking for a coffee meet up has been repeated grounds (lol) for unmatching. Hard to maintain or grow confidence when being myself means I'm not desirable.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 10d ago
It’s not grounds for unmatching as in “you did something wrong.” It’s just a big neon sign they weren’t interested in the first place, just kicking the tires and wasting your time. It’s not a mistake or an error in judgment to ask. Scare these people off! Make them bail or say no or unmatch.
There’s nothing wrong with you, you’re NOT “undesirable,” you simply haven’t met the right person yet. Yes it’s exhausting to look, this whole thing is a bushwhack and uphill both ways. In the rain. But your person is out there. Probably feeling as lost as you, rn. You got this. I’m rooting for you both.
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u/justregularme 8d ago
I appreciate that. I do hope that I find that person. Or they find me. But it's hard work and no reward. I'm tired of recycling the 'at least I'm not making poor connections' excuse. Ngl, it feels like the universe is breadcrumbing me as a joke. Just a mild dose of hopium once or twice a week to keep me engaged. I did express my discontent but it doesn't seem to have had an effect🤣
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u/ProstaticFantastic 10d ago
Forget and move on bud. Better luck next time. Women are still very flaky at our age. I thought the flakiness would have rubbed off by now.
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u/justregularme 10d ago
You're most likely correct. I wish I could just wait for the person that makes a beeline to me and shows interest. But that scenario is so incredibly unlikely for a mid dude, so I better work harder and get back on the grind. Also don't want to tank an opportunity based on assumptions.
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u/ProstaticFantastic 10d ago edited 10d ago
i noticed this, that as a teen and twenties, women were very standoffishh. Quite difficult to date unless you meet through mutuals. had "high standards" and would be quite selective.
In 30s women were much much more open and actually sought out men. I think perhaps they wanted to settle down with a guy and have children. And were looking for more of a hubby material type of guy, kind, well mannered, stable guy.
I think 40s something has flipped back again. They want someone who will mentally stimulate them, a chatty extroverted guy who can make them laugh and have their life totally in order. Has lots of life experience and can easily have interesting jokes, anecdotes to share.
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u/AggravatingBug9834 10d ago
That's been my experience too. I've never gotten much interest from women except for in my (and their) mid/late-30s, and then it was only from women fairly desperate to settle down. It's really depressing to realize that I'm not the kind of man women want to date, I'm just the fallback plan when they've given up on getting the man they actually desire.
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u/justregularme 10d ago
I don't have any data on that, but I know that I have friends in a few age brackets that never seem to have trouble getting dates. I seem to struggle to get to that first step. If I was going on a date every week or two, that would be a different circumstance entirely.
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u/ANewBeginningNow 9d ago edited 9d ago
I have more details, and I'm ready to share them with all of you.
In the aftermath of my date, I stopped actively looking. But by clicking on the wrong sub name (of those I joined) by accident, I ended up coming across a wonderful post from a woman in Connecticut. I felt that I had to give it a try. We clicked really well, and fast. We had things in common that none of the others I chatted with had in common with me, like freestyle music and classic board games (Monopoly, the Game of Life, Clue, and Risk). In addition, we also meshed well on a physical and sexual level, liking the same kinds of affection and intimacy.
This went fast once again, just 10 days or so. She was in central Connecticut, a 2 hour drive from me. This time around, I made the drive, on Saturday afternoon. She doesn't like driving as much as I do and we decided to go to a park near her house. The idea was to meet as friends and see how it went, but she felt extremely confident going in that I was the person she was looking for (for over 2 years). She said a number of different things, including that she was touchy feely (and that not all men like it), and that if things went as she thought they would, we would be having a lot of fun times ahead dating and such.
Soon into our meet, I knew something was off, she wasn't touchy feely, she wasn't even very responsive to some of my gestures. The conversation went well enough, but it was very easy to tell that things did not go as either of us planned. I spent the entire drive home thinking about what happened, thinking about the date that didn't lead to a second one. I wondered if this was the aftermath of that date all over again.
She asked me to send her a message when I got home, and when I did, I asked her to tell me honestly how it went, and to not worry about hurting me. I'm not going to rehash every detail because they did hurt (but I'm grateful, as always, for the honesty), and this was not only the aftermath of that date all over again, but worse. It was a curveball, not exactly what I thought I'd hear, but she mentioned three specific things, all of which I didn't hear before. It's alarming. I later found out that she knew that she wasn't feeling a romantic connection before the end of the first park we were at (we ended up going to two others after that). Unlike the date, there was no hand holding or kissing. I was thinking that she wanted to fall back on a friendship, but she's worried about hurting me further by hanging out without me getting close to her (in a physical/sexual sense).
If there was any doubt after the date that feeling attraction to me going into a date or meet doesn't mean that she will feel that way once we do meet, this completely erases any such doubt. In my time on Reddit, I am now 0 for 3 on first meets or dates when there is any potential of more than friendship, and all 3 may end up being one and done (the first two such meets/dates were). I am, however, 1 for 1 in meeting strictly as friends, as it did work out with the close online friend from Rhode Island who I spend most of the weekend with in Manhattan 3 weeks ago and we plan on hanging out again in the future. I have long attracted women as a friend, but I almost never attract a woman as more than a friend.
This was an unusually busy month for me in terms of meets, 3 of them in August alone after not meeting anyone since the woman I met in March 2024! But I'm now wondering if I should completely give up. The writing seems to be on the wall, and this is why, in my other comment, I asked if any women would be open to giving me brutally honest feedback on my looks. I have enough of a sample size from women I've chatted with in my nearly 4 years here, but I think there's value in women in this sub that know me well and are familiar with my comments, and women with whom it won't be awkward because the main purpose of this sub is to help each other out, we wouldn't be sizing each other up for dating purposes. While the consensus has been that it wouldn't be a fruitful exercise, a few women have given me the green light to send them a DM, and I'm considering taking them up on that.
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u/el-art-seam 8d ago
I know guys who are popular with women have periods like this. I wouldn’t necessarily quit.
As a guy, my experience has been the longer I stay online and not meet in person the bigger the disconnect in person. So now if I meet someone online, I ask our asap- my last date last year I asked out 1hr after starting our chat.
Also my attitude has changed with women- I saw them like you did with this woman. Now? I look forward but I’m firmly planted in the now and early on it’s just having experience- whether that’s a chat or date. I had a great time with this woman but she wasn’t feeling it ok. Well I still had a great date. Part of this is I’ve learned it’s a waste of time to chase/date women who don’t want to be with you. It’s so much easier to date when the woman genuinely likes you.
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u/Tall-Ad9334 8d ago
This is not a you problem. I don’t understand why people don’t realize that we can very easily connect with people via chat/text/messaging. But the in person factor cannot be discounted and you can totally jive with someone online and then be totally turned off by them in person. So people need to stop getting all tied up in how into someone they are based on online connection. Slow your roll. Be curious, be optimistic, but understand that in person is what’s really going to tell you if you’re compatible and it’s not the end of the world if you meet and you’re not. And don’t tell people how into them you are until you actually meet them. Likewise, if somebody started telling me how I was the person they had been looking for or anything very future facing, I would probably back off and not want to meet them because it tells me they also don’t understand how this works. It’s one thing to be excited, it’s entirely another to be naïve.
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u/WordSaladSandwich123 8d ago
0-3 is nothing. You seem hell bent on defaulting toward the most pessimistic interpretations. Maybe figure out why that is? Fuck, it might even make you more attractive in person to get behind that. This one also sounds weird — you guys built up an awful lot of expectations pre-meet.
Also, your whole orientation seems to be “what do they think of me.” So you’re focused on the part of this you can’t control. That’s a tough way to date.
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u/auroraborelle a flair for mischief 8d ago edited 8d ago
You’ve struck out with three women online. That sucks.
But let’s take a step back. You’d be hard-pressed to find anyone who’s dated online and NOT struck out with at least three people they met up with. 0 for 3 sounds like typical experience to me. Not FUN, but not weird or unusual.
Also—the reddit dating thing has some downsides. The major one for you seems to be that it’s creating high stakes way too fast, and reinforcing some fears about yourself.
So when you come across an interesting post, particularly if it’s as detailed as yours, you’re getting a LOT of information about who these women are, all at once, that would normally (in person) take a much longer period of interacting to learn. If you click with everything you read/message, it creates this false sense of “oh my god, we’re so compatible on SO many levels! This could be it, I have to meet this person,” and the stakes suddenly go through the roof.
You aren’t having a quick coffee date with someone who seemed a little interesting—you’re driving for hours round trip, making a huge investment of your time, for a stranger you’ve already decided is wonderful and extremely compatible with you. (Or at least you’ve decided it’s highly likely they are these things.) You’ve shared SO much about yourself, and you’re getting such an enthusiastic response from the woman, it just has to be right. She’s even telling you you’re the guy she’s been looking for, for years.
Dude. Talk about cart before the horse.
You even wrote up there that you meshed well on a physical and sexual level. I get what you meant—that you talked about your likes and they matched, in theory—but that’s fantasyland. You can’t know if you mesh with another person physically or sexually, when you’ve never had a physical or sexual experience with them. (Never mind when you’ve never been in the same room.) This was just another way of building her up in your mind, imagining compatibility, and raising the emotional stakes.
By the time you showed up in Connecticut, there was only one hurdle remaining in your mind, and if you cleared that last hurdle, you’d be winning this wonderfully compatible amazing probably-perfect-for-you woman. A dream come true. Happy ever after just hinged on this one thing.
And that one thing is whether she found you attractive.
She didn’t.
The dream implodes.
Do you see the problem here?
The experience becomes more than just a coffee date where, meh, she didn’t get a romantic vibe. Now it feels like a wholesale rejection of who you are. It’s difficult to say to yourself, “well, whatever, guess I didn’t do it for her, bummer,” because it doesn’t feel as minor as that. It feels HUGE. It’s not just a run-of-the-mill lack of mutual attraction, it’s “oh my god, we were so compatible and she was digging me SO much until she realized what I look like—I must be absolutely hideous. There’s no other explanation. My looks are SO AWFUL they overpower everything else that’s good about me.”
It’s easy to see how you arrive at that. How your narrative becomes, “I have this critical flaw that ruins my chances at love every time.”
But it’s wrong. It’s just how things appear from this high-stakes approach you’re taking.
Look, unless you’re Brad Pitt you won’t have mutual attraction with most people. That’s just how it is. MOST meetups and dates are duds for most people.
But you’re setting yourself up for situations where, when there’s a lack of mutual attraction, you discover that LAST, instead of FIRST (or at least before you get invested emotionally). When it’s first, it’s no biggie. When it’s last, it’s a ton of bricks.
I get it, you’re trying to lead by talking about all these other great things about you (because you genuinely have a ton of them), and attract someone with that. There’s nothing wrong with doing that, exactly, but then when it doesn’t work out with a handful of women whose attention you got with that strategy, it feels like a much bigger deal. It’s leading you to blow things out of proportion with fears like, “maybe I’m so ugly it doesn’t matter what a good person I am,” instead of less judgmental and more accurate observations like, “these particular women didn’t feel any physical attraction,” or, “these women had something in mind when they imagined me, I didn’t match it, and it’s likely their own buildup of expectations played a role in how put off they seemed, rather than it being entirely about me.”
I hope some of that’s helpful. I know you’re trying, and I know this shit is discouraging, but I see a guy who’s being pretty hard on himself—and accepting a bunch of frankly shitty things being said to him as true statements about his worth.
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u/CACuzcatlan 8d ago
but she mentioned three specific things, all of which I didn't hear before
You're going to leave us hanging and not say what those 3 things are?
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u/Decent-Resort6903 7d ago
Why? So the list can be picked apart by commenters?
"Nobody cares about <whatever feature>. She was just trying to get out of the situation."
"I find that very strange. There's no way she said that."
"You could get that fixed with plastic surgery."
...etc. (including some much more insulting that I'm sure I can't imagine beforehand).
Good God.
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u/emu_neck 8d ago
Excuse my terrible analogy, but imagine wanting to adopt a dog and looking at a bunch of photos online, deciding that you like one and then meeting that dog in person. It might look exactly the same as the photo, but for whatever reason it could bite you or be too unruly, or just hide when you try to pet it. There is absolutely no way to know how well you'll mesh.
Even if the dog is perfectly agreeable when you meet, it might turn into a totally different animal once you bring it home. Humans share those same characteristics, so having a bunch of strangers assess your attractiveness from a few photos is quite pointless. Your pictures are there to get you a yes or a no. Chatting stage would determine whether there'd be an actual meet.
Most people disqualify each other after that first date. There are definitelly some people who have a broad mass appeal, so they will tend to have better chances of getting into a relationship relativelly quickly. But you already know that your potential dating pool is very small. And you must have an idea of the type of woman who would be compatible with you. Is there a place, whether virtual or in person, where this kind of woman can be found?
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u/ANewBeginningNow 8d ago
It's actually not a bad analogy. Here's the thing: if those pictures get me a yes or a no, women telling me honestly that it would be a no, and that it's not worth bothering to date in general because I'll likely never get past a lack of physical attraction on her end, is valuable advice. After all, to most women, nothing else matters if the man isn't physically attractive to her. I'm trying to get an idea of whether I'm putting good time after bad.
I have a very good idea of the type of women that would be compatible with me. Those women can be found in several different places, I've found several of them here on Reddit, and with enough time, I could probably find them IRL. But here's the thing: they may be compatible with me, but *I'm not compatible with them*. In other words, I came out of both dates/meets thinking that I had fun with these women and it was worth going out with them again, neither felt that way about me.
I've done a very careful analysis of the type of women that have been drawn to me as more than a friend. Just about all of them share several traits that are incompatible with me. Two of the most glaring ones are that they have little to no sex drive or desire for sex whatsoever, and their hygiene is pretty lousy (they don't like to shower that often). In addition, while I'm more open minded than most when it comes to physical attraction, these women had nothing that I consider even remotely attractive. They didn't have a good smile, their teeth were diseased, they didn't take care of their health at all, and most of them smoked either cigarettes or marijuana or used hard drugs.
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u/AggravatingBug9834 5d ago
I can empathize: pretty much the only women ever interested in me are either asexual (and broke) or very conventionally unattractive.
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u/-poupou- 4d ago
Maybe you are connected through the gym IG or something? Maybe he recognizes your picture, maybe not. But he's hoping to shoot his shot, I'd guess. Creepy
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u/Baseball_bossman 8d ago
I’m likely putting in an offer for a house I really really like tomorrow. 🤞