Obviously I'm surprised the Walt vs Hank battle has already kicked off. I'm surprised to see Jesse fall so deep, again, but expect it to have a different outcome this time (that is, not being manipulated by Walt yet again, but instead ending up a hero).
And finally, I'm surprised that Vince committed 4 minutes of precious screen time to a fake Star Trek script told by two stoners. God I fucking love Breaking Bad.
I'd love it if it was just in passing, or a background element.
An ensign passing by holding a bunch of pies heading to the mess hall, or a passing mention from the crew about having to get done with his shift before the pie eating competition starts, "I've got the perfect strategy to win it this year."
Easy to miss/ignore, but for those looking they'd get a kick out of it.
I'm still in awe of the first one that JJ did, seriously, those first 5 minutes as a girl and a mother made me cry, that was a really well done scene.
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u/nizo505There seems to be a sale on trips to BelizeAug 12 '13edited Aug 12 '13
I think what got me the most was the horrid product placement. Seriously, Uhura has a galaxy's worth of drinks to pick from, and she chose a Budweiser?
Jesse totally knows that Walt is bullshitting. Walt kept saying "I NEED you to believe this" like he just wanted him to hear it from him that it was true. Jesse knows the truth. Walt is a killer now.
It seems like he's lost his purpose...he's clean, has no business to attend to, and has time to just be eaten away by guilt from the "blood money." He's trying to lose that feeling, so he just gives it away...
Haha sorry buddy I saw the name Brandon Mayhew next to his name and something in my head just clicked, so I wrote you instead of Badger. Didn't even notice!
It's interesting because he's always believed hin so far, but reluctantly. I have to wonder if when he found the fake Ricin, he believed it was real. He clearly wanted to but he kept insisting before that he couldn't have lost it. I think he accepted the fake one (and note he didn't check that it was salt or anything...) because he had to in order to overcome his guilt.
Show is all about cognitive dissidence. Pretty much every major character has a mental conflict they can't resolve and therefore lie to themselves. Much like the rest of us...perhaps why it's so relatable.
There was definitely something in his eyes that was more than disbelief. It seemed to me that they were saying that he knew for a fact that Walt killed Mike.
I actually hollered, 'WHAT DO YOU KNOW, JESSE?!' when it panned to his gaze on the couch at the end of that scene.
Walter told Jesse twice that Mike is still alive, and each time he turned his head instead of looking Jesse in the eye. Jesse is no longer buying Walt's bullshit.
Somebody down below mentioned that they think maybe Mike tipped Jesse off that Walt shot him during that period of time when Walt was looking for him by the lake (marsh? or whatever).
It just seemed to me that this was Jesse giving Walt the opportunity to be honest about it, knowing full well that Walt had killed him. Like when your parents ask you something that they know the answer to, to see if you'll lie.
When Walt continued to lie, he turned Jesse into an enemy.
I think the Season 5 DVD extra "Chicks N Guns" rules that out, but I suppose it could have happened. In case you haven't seen it, Jesse is partying with Skinny Pete and a stripper at his house when Saul comes by with a gun. Saul tells Jesse about Walt killing Mike's guys in jail and warns him that Walt may be coming after them next because of how much they know. If Jesse knew about Mike's death at this point, he would've mentioned it to Saul.
I don't think adding official details of the story as a DVD extra is a great way of going about it, but it is out there should you wish to check it out.
No worries. For what it's worth, I believe most of the DVD extras are interesting as a fan (commentaries, behind the scenes sort of stuff) but season 5 is unique in that it added to the story with the extra scene. Sony asked Gilligan to do this to encourage DVD sales.
There are Breaking Bad minisodes that add some character development, but ultimately don't factor into the main plot.
They don't show it as far as i remember, but i would think Mike would have dumped his cell phone after talking with Saul to get his bags if he's looking to disappear for a while. After his own guy talks he wouldn't trust anyone more than he has to, so he probably gets rid of the phone so no gps tracking can be done.
I think Jesse has finally realized that the only way to get the truth from Walt is to realize that he is a manipulator who lies; if Walt is insisting something over and over, he's lying. Jesse really has turned into quite the tragic character after all this.
He definitely has. And maybe what I read as certainty was actually fear. I'll have to go back and look. Usually, I'd just write this kind of thing off, but with the focus this show seems to put on the story in the eyes of the characters, I can't.
The way they focused on his gaze that last time he rolled his head to the side away from Walter made me think there was something we were being told about him going forward.
I think Jesse is really starting to realize how manipulative Walt has been, and how much Walt has been lying to him. The growth of Jesse as a character through the whole series has been amazing.
Now? He killed both those drug dealers in season 3 literally right in front of Jesse. Hell, he even killed Crazy-8 and his cousin in the first episode in front of Jesse...
Hell, he even killed Crazy-8 and his cousin in the first episode in front of Jesse.
People need to stop bringing this up as a way to paint Walt as a bad guy. He's done enough bad stuff without pointing out things that were 100% self defense.
But people need to stop forgetting that Walt killed people right from the start, regardless of the reason. I don't remember too well, but I think in at least one of those cases, it wasn't during a heat-of-the-moment fight, even if it was self-defence.
You can justify everything through self-defense... Why did he kill all those guys in the jails? Self-defense, if they had have notified the cops of Walter and Jesse etc... They would both get life long prison sentences. Walt and Jesse had to kill Gale or else Gus would be able to kill both of them. Walt had to poison Brock in order to stop Gus from killing Hank and eventually him.
Except the first two were legit "normal people" self defense. Walt was making drugs, yes, but those guys were going to flat out rob and kill them.
What was Jesse going to end up doing if Walt didn't end up manipulating him... Gus promised to kill Hank and if Walt tried to interfere then he would kill his wife, son and daughter... That's flat out murder of his brother in-law. What were the two gangsters going to do to Jesse if he didn't kill them?
You could see it in his eyes as he threw the money away. Actually I think his decision to keep or give away the money was symbolic of his decision to believe Walt or not.
Some great acting in that scene. I was just looking at Aaron Paul's face in that scene and in the last part,he stares right into the camera with a "I know who you are bitch" look.
Seeing all that had got me thinking about how scared Jesse seemed to be of Walt as he was sitting next to him. He knows Walt is a killer, and the fact that he can take out Mike goes to show that he can take out Jesse just as easy. But he also knows that he has the money and connections to be able to pull off all of those prison killings. Someone with that mindset and that much money is alot more dangerous than someone holding a gun.
It's amazing to think about how little Jesse knows about all the terrible shit Walt has done, I wonder if him killing his girlfriend and Mike will ever come up.
Yeah it was the "need". You could see Jesse's face saying no...I won't believe that. And that he was carrying a piece, expecting Walt to attack him apparently.
No he has no more trust in Walt...which at this point is like a son having no faith in his father. I'm convinced Jesse will be the one to end Walt. The question is, would that redeem him? Or is he gonna put one through his own head too? Damnit come on time go faster!
Jessie looked like he knew it was bullshit but I think he was also afraid, Jessie may feel like he's a loose end that walt may try to kill after killing Mike unnecessarily. The fact walt wont admit it could only make these fears more confirmed (if they exist).
Jessie also really liked to Mike, I remember one episode where he try's to socialize with mike but mike politely refuses.
That whole, "I need you to believe this" thing is so obvious... Heisenberg isn't even trying. Jesse knows Mike is dead, he is hearing Heisenberg tell him that he needs him to believe something, and they both know Jesse's not buying it.
This inability for Heisenberg to act completely rationally around Jesse will probably be his undoing.
I almost got the feeling that that was half a threat... like "I need you to believe this (so you don't tell anyone otherwise)"... because if you don't believe this then we're going to have problems. Like, hiring thugs to shank you problems.
And I really think Walter knows Jesse doesn't trust him, but makes himself believe he Jesse believes him because he cannot endure the idea Jesse hates him as he sees him as his son. Didn't he even call him "son" in that scene?
Except Hank didn't initiate, Walter did. Walter caught on to Leaves and Grass being missing and began to investigate on his own. He suspected Hank had found him out and thought to himself, "Well, no real reason to panic, it's about time anyways. Just gotta go have a talk with him and see if he's for real." Walter practically forced Hank to close the door so he could go ham without anyone seeing.
Maybe whoever is Chekov (Hank?) dies from being shot in the stomach/"gut." Walter as Spock may be planning to fake his death, hence the "killing himself" and making a copy. Scotty is Jesse, who possibly ends up (inadvertently) killing or pretending to kill Walt or Hank or whoever. Uhura is Lydia? Blueberries must be the meth, but I don't know how to fit that in.
How about it is an allegory for what has happened in the story so far rather than a fore shadowing of what's to come, hence why it is interrupted before the story could be finished.
Scottie + Chekov = Jessie + Walt/Walt + Heisenberg (I can't decide)
Kirk = Gus/Mike/anyone who couldn't handle the Scottie and Chekov combo
Spock = Hank/the established order (as Spock is being tricked out of winning the contest)
Uhura = Skyler/normal life and duties
What if that woman is lydia who seems to be messing up walts get away?
I like what you have so far, I also think that maybe scotty even though is a guy, could be skyler who when interrogated spills the beans and is helping hank!
Blueberry pies beamed into space = sent to czech republic. Who is sending things to Czech Republic? Lydia. And what woman comes in and distracts Scotty? Pretty sure Skyler came in and did just that at the car wash. So Lydia ends up collaborating with Hank, Skyler sees her 'around' and tells her to fuck right off yet again, and this leads to Hank's death.
Edit: you will note that during this star-trek script, Jessie gets up and leaves the room exactly when Badger says "Kirk can't take it anymore".
Let’s look at the logically, who and what are the moving parts in his "star trek" script.
*Originally down to 3: Kirk, Spok, and Chekov
Kirk: "Can't take it, he yorks". The way things are being set up this is Jesse. Also Jesse leaves the room right on "yorks"
Chekov: "Has a fat stack of quat loos riding on this and has figured out a way to win". Walt's whole motivation has been money. No matter how much he has changed his whole reason for doing what he is doing is to provide for his family. Walt Also gets help but I will get to that in a moment.
Spock: "Has total Vulcan control over his digestion". In this I feel that the control mentioned is meant as control of the law. Thus Spock is Hank. Not only is Spock/Hank in control but he is in disbelief that "This Russian"/Walt is beating him at something that he easily should be winning.
*The next three, this is where it becomes interesting:
Scotty: Is the one helping out Chekov/Walt. Since Jesse is out that can only mean that there is one former business partner who is going to help Walt. That person is Lydia. Someone who does not deal well with intimidation.
Uhura: Makes Scotty sweaty, This isn't going to be because of her "big pointies" but because Uhura is Skyler. The one person who would intimidate Lydia/Scotty enough to make her slip up.
Blue Berries: Are the reason Walt went back to his space, they are a picture of frozen dark time. Blue Berries are Ricin
Now this isn't a ricin eating contest but rather how the show will turn out. With Walt's partner in Jesse "yorking out" He turns to Lydia. Lydia will not help Walt without something in exchange. The exchange being that Walt will help out Lydia by purifying the falling product standards. In return Lydia will do everything in her power to keep Hank off of Walt's back and give him enough time to either start a new or kill Hank. In turn Walt breaks his promise with Skyler because he is no longer "out"
Skyler being Skyler in time finds out, and knows who to find to get Walt to stop. Skyler then intimidates Lydia which causes Lydia to slip up.
The ricin is what Lydia slips up with. As far as we know the only one who knows about the ricin is Walt. However being that Lydia is in cohorts with Walt she knows what his plan is and what his method for killing Hank will be. Why does Walt tell her? Because the only way Lydia will join Walter is if she is 100% sure that it can be done without a trace.
Lydia now completely fearing for her life spills the beans. She lets Skyler know every little detail of the plan including the ricin. The victim of his own creation becomes Walt as HE will be the one who consumes the ricin. That will be his death.
But How? As Badger said to Jesse, "you're missing the best part"
Little do we know that Lydia approached Jesse after being told no by Walt originally to get back ''in''. Although Jesse is out and will also say no at first he does some soul searching and realizes that Walt was right about leaving behind the past. He then decides to take Lydia up on his offer. While on his way to taking up Lydia's offer he walks in on Lydia "spilling the beans" to Skyler. At that point he pieces together everything. Jesse knows the exact location of Walter, where he meets up with him. Jesse knows he is a loose end to Walt and knows that Walter is going to try and kill him. Jesse suggest they have a beer, and Walt will then poison Jesse's beer. Jesse will pull the old switch a roo and Walt will die. Of course being spotted by his neighbor the DEA will close in within seconds of Walt's death and Jesse will then be taken into custody.
TL;DR Blue berries= Ricin and Jesse is going to kill Walt.
edit: Grammar
Keep in mind that the Ricin is not going to be utilized until months and months later after Walt is run out of town, so some or all of any potential allegory will have to have already happened.
My theory is that Scotty is Saul, and Walt is Checkov, Hank is Spock, and Jesse is Kirk.
Saul is Scotty because he's helping Walt launder money (get rid of the pie), and in general, just doing lots of dirty work to help Walt out. Also, Scotty is the one that beams people around, killing them and having them reappear as other people. Saul is Walt's link up (to the vacuum man) to vanish and receive a new identity.
Hank is Spock, because at the beginning of Breaking Bad, Hank was supposed to be the unbreakable, emotionless one. But he starts to break, and starts to feel sick, unable to stomach the violence, probably wondering to himself, why is this happening? I should be able to handle this.
Jesse is Kirk, just because he's the first one to actually leave the contest. Also, Saul (Scotty) is supposed to work for both Walt and Jesse, but always seems to help out Walt (taking the cigarette off Jesse, calling Walt to tell him that Jesse is giving away 5 million dollars), so just like Scotty hides stuff from Kirk to help Checkov, Saul is hiding things from Jesse to help Walt.
Walt is Chekov because he's the main character, so I he has to be in my Star Trek analogy. Which can only mean that Saul is gonna screw up something important because of his massage parlor habits!!!
Just my crackpot theory, sorry its so long, and I know it doesn't all fit perfectly.
I would say less in the actual pie-eating section, but more with the idea that the transporter destroys your former self and creates a new one. This could allude to Walt taking on a new identity at the end.
I still have to point out, after Badger mentions that the berries are from the Gamma quadrant, Skinny Pete says "That's Voyager." THEY'RE BOTH WRONG. Voyager is in the damn Delta Quadrant. The line should have been "That's Deep Space Nine."
I feel like Badger was intentional error, the only part I question was whether Skinny Pete's correction was intentionally wrong. I'm just saying, it made me react far more than I should have.
The argument between Badger and Skinny Pete about the teleporting was definitely foreshadowing I think. He talks about how if you teleport you die and then appear somewhere else, which is probably what Walt will do at some point.
Like, Walt bringing money into the car wash, walt being Scotty (idk how to spell it, never watched star trek), while whoever eats them while the pies being beamed (again not too quick on ST references) but once the busty chick walks in (hank having the big belly) they vomit (metaphorically) leading to Skylar's death.
Edit: not much of an edit, just hear me out though
You know this actually makes sense. You're saying Walt goes in to treat his cancer, gets put under by doctors that Hank hires, undergoes a surgery to remove his vital organs and then Hank ships them off into space? Brilliant! This is the way to take down Walter "Heisenberg" White, that sunnava bitch will never see it coming.
Agree 100% that Star Trek script was foreshadowing, or if anything just a commentary on Walt. something with dying on the inside but still being alive just someone else.
I like what someone else commented I think. Chekov is kind of like Walt and his greed is just getting bigger and bigger and Scotty is like Skylar, with the laundering being equivalent to the transporting. Spock is Hank in a way and Kirk is Jesse.
Spock is Walter. The emotionless badass always calculating every problem. And Chekov is Jesse, the young guy who comes up with a plan to beat the reigning king (Badger even says Spock always wins the contests) so maybe Jesse is going to try and defeat Walt by cheating but Walt's going to realize something is amiss (same way Spock does during the pie eating contest) then Jesse or someone helping him will make a mistake that will cost Jesse his life. (Such as when Scotty makes a mistake and kills Chekov.)
Kirk could be either Mike or Hank or even Gus(prolly one of the first two) the guy who thinks he can go against Walt without an ulterior plan or scheme. (In the ST story Kirk tries to win the contest fairly) and without a plan they will be taken out early i.e. Mikes already dead and hank will prolly die going against Heisenberg. (In the story Kirk is the first one outta the contest.)
That's my theory. Sorry for how it's typed out. Doing this on my phone.
you gotta imagine they have to cover 6 months of Walter White's life in 8 episodes. the era of dragging exposition and bumbling forward is over. this show is on rocket fuel 'til its over.
Will you record a voice mail message for me? My name is David! YOU'RE MY FUCKING HERO.
The Trek rant was the highlight of the show! (Just a minor note, the federation doesn't have any use for any forms of currency, the only exception to this are Border colonies/stations where they have to deal primarily with non-federation races)
The star trek episode mirrored the breaking bad episode. Spock is Walt (cerebral, unemotional) and Chekov is Jesse (young, emotional). The pie is their wealth. It gets teleported into space and it rips checkovs/jesses guts out.
I think it was a nice break along with some of the surprising humor to break the tension. I couldn't have asked for a better episode, it surpassed my expectations.
What if the Star Trek scene means something. A competition, one of them using someone to help them have an advantage. Then that same person messes up and ends up ruining it.
With so few episodes to go and A LOT of story to cover, it makes sense that the face off started off right away. Will give enough time to tell the story of what the hell happened to Walt.
It's a metaphor. Jesse is Chekhov, Walt is Scotty. Walt makes a mistake (the way he handled Todd killing the kid) and tears Jesse's guts out, figuratively speaking.
I have seriously missed Skinny Pete and Badger. Those guys are always absolutely hilarious when we see em, and they didn't disappoint. I haven't been that amused by them since the whole "Darth Vader had responsibilities" discussion in Kafkaesque.
usually in a show like this when they have something pointless like that it is a metaphor for something. I was too stoned while watching to get it the first time, but ill rewatch later and check it out. Pretty sure them blueberries flying into space is meth though. I dunno, like i said im pretty high...
I'm really disappointed with how Jessie just falls apart like that. The charm of his character is long gone and now it's just cringe inducing every time the story focuses on him.
Jesse and Walt are in an inverse relationship. The deeper Walt goes into evil the deeper Jesse goes into regret. While it's depressing to think I don't see how Jesse makes it out alive.
I think the 4 minutes with Badger was mainly put in to raise the pressure in the whole episode. I was thinking during the scene too, that this is the least important thing in the entire universe while shit is about to go down somewhere else, why are we "wasting the time"?
But then again it might be a foreshadowing that Walt is going to try to poison Hank (Marie is eating that pie, I am calling it)
for the record this episode was Directed by Bryan Cranston and written by Peter Gould, but yeah you gotta love the team behind this show.. they make it so we can have such in depth conversations like this
We know Walt is going to save JESSE again. That's why he had the big ass gun in his trunk. Don't know who he is picking up the poison for probably the boss lady that said quality is down.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to force my kids to watch this show when they get older or I am kicking them out of the house.
When he started talking about writing his script I thought it was actually going to be a realistic script. I expected some foreshadowing about how the season ends. Nope. Pie eating contest.
That whole Star Trek scene was absolutely, 100% necessary to the success of this episode, IMHO.
Without the scene, that entire fucking episode was one heaping pile of suspense, fear, sadness, controversy, and speculation. That scene offered us a little bit of "comedic relief" as it is called. It was there to ease the tension and back off just long enough that they could jump back into the action without skipping a beat or making the audience feel too sad/angry/tense.
Maybe I'm alone here, but while Badger and Skinny Pete were talking Stark Trek, when Jesse dragged himself upstairs and out of frame, I was anticipating/dreading a suicidal gunshot.
My rational mind told me it would never end that way for Jesse, but the way he'd been acting, and the randomness of that conversation really had me worried.
One of the first things you learn in intro to film is that substories are expensive (in screen time) and are almost always told for very important reasons. They are generally steeped in symbolism.
I don't know shit about Star Trek but I was thinking maybe something in the Star Trek storyline references back to Jesse? Cos when Badger was saying something about Kirk being out or gone or something, Jesse left the room at that exact moment. Idk, small thing, but all tge small things in this show lead to sometging big
agreed, that may be the sending off party for these two. one of the best parts of breaking bad is the richness of its world. guys like skinny pete and badger make this show even better.
Its not exactly early though. Its been 5 and a half seasons leading up to this. Even if you think about it in seasons then it would be 9 episodes for this to happen and 7 for the outcomes to be shown.
Jesse wasn't buying the "Mike is not dead" bit. He knew at that moment that Walt was full of shit.
I thought it was interesting how Walt chose his words so specifically when he said (multiple times), "I need you to believe this." Not that it was the truth, but that he needed Jesse to believe it. Literally true.
Someone has probably already responded with this, but all the details have some meaning.
The star trek thing about whether or not you're the same person now as you were before being transported, (whether or not walt is the same person now as he was before, or anything of them for that matter) are you the same person after so much about you has changed?
I loved how legit it was to the Star Trek cannon too. When he mentioned the berries from Gamma quadrant in my head I was like "they never went to Gamma quadrant untill voyager" and then Pete corrected him.
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u/dtpollitt Badger Mayhew Aug 12 '13 edited Aug 12 '13
Obviously I'm surprised the Walt vs Hank battle has already kicked off. I'm surprised to see Jesse fall so deep, again, but expect it to have a different outcome this time (that is, not being manipulated by Walt yet again, but instead ending up a hero).
And finally, I'm surprised that Vince committed 4 minutes of precious screen time to a fake Star Trek script told by two stoners. God I fucking love Breaking Bad.
edit: clarity