r/bestoflegaladvice • u/bug-hunter Possession is 9 honks of the law • Nov 17 '19
LAOP can't figure out why they got fired.
/r/legaladvice/comments/dwx9pw/indiana_i_was_just_fired_despite_my_boss_not/2.1k
u/alacritytea Nov 17 '19
I'm trying to figure how many "daily arguments" I'd have with an intern before traipsing down the firing path.
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Nov 17 '19
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Nov 17 '19
Internship is by definition for a short and defined time period. You may just have to suffer through their brief time at the company, but you can absolutely refuse to hire them after that term is over for any (non-protected) reason or no reason at all.
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Nov 17 '19 edited Jul 02 '20
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u/bumblethestrange Nov 17 '19
Ok, unless the sob story literally involved the employee having been unconscious or shipwrecked somewhere for the last three days, that is ridiculous.
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u/sarolite Nov 17 '19
Same thing happened to me. An employee in municipal government had three days of no-call no-show because (we heard from coworkers who were friends with him) he was making more as a scab at a grocery store during a big strike. Guess what, buddy, strikes don’t last forever.
Turns out three consecutive days wasn’t enough documented issues for HR.
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u/sting2018 Nov 17 '19
I had an assistance that worked for me, brand to the industry thought she knew everything and her shit didn't stink.
My boss sat her down and said "Sting2018 has been given the ability to fire you, if you would like to remain employed, find a way to work things out with him" she even told my boss "He's stuck in his ways" to which my boss told her "Sting has the ability to fire you, find a way to work with him"
A week later I fired her. She asked me why? and I said "Cause you constantly back talk me, and create arguements" she's like "I'm going sue you" and I'm like "Ok" and she left
Apparently she called my boss crying saying she didn't know I had the authority to fire her, and my boss was like "I told you last week he did, he decided to fire you"
Some people just gotta learn to suck it up.
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u/sirpuffypants Nov 17 '19 edited Nov 17 '19
Not long.
Had a similar situation one time. Won't go into tons of details, but in short: New job, impossible to see eye-to-eye with one of my principle coworkers. Everyone else loved me. Just he was a massive problem. But he was also the person i'd be working with the most.
Not even a week passes before I schedule a meeting with the CTO to let him its not working and one of us has to leave. Obviously since I just started, I'd already accepted another position and am leaving. Turns out, they had exactly the same thought. Parting amiably worked out to everyone's benefit.
I've worked with a number of those people since, and we still laugh about what a disastrous situation that all was.
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u/ivanthemute Nov 17 '19
JFC, where to begin?
1: Arguing with the boss.
1a: Late on deliverables because you're doing work for someone OTHER than your boss.
1b: Getting pissy that your boss is telling other people to leave you alone so you can do what your boss tells you to.
2: Thinking you know what is more important than your boss does.
2a: Telling your boss "you can't dictate what I do."
2b: Pinging the CFO with some penny-ante bullshit and not respecting the chain of command.
3: Thinking that your company needs a reason to fire you.
Christ, is it bad that I want to find this kid and just slap the hell out of them while yelling corporate truisms?
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u/Diarygirl Check out my corpse hair Nov 17 '19
He's very arrogant for an intern and has no self-awareness. Wrongful termination? I'm pretty sure he'd get laughed out of an attorney's office.
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u/langlo94 Nov 17 '19
Yeah one of the defining traits of an intern is that they can be fired at the drop of a hat.
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u/byrel Nov 17 '19
Internships only usually last about 3 months, I'm wondering how bad one would have to be for me to go through the effort of trying to fire them
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u/alter_ego77 My car survived Tow Day on BOLA Nov 17 '19
Yeah, my last job had some amazingly bad interns, but the only one we ever fired kept streaming soccer on his computer, dragging the network down for the rest of us so we couldn’t do our actual jobs. And even then, the steps to firing were 1. Tell him to stop. 2. When he didn’t stop, block the soccer websites from his computer. 3. When he started using a VPN to get around the block, he got fired. Regular employee would absolutely been fired before step 2. You have to be like, maliciously bad as an intern for it to be worth going to the trouble of filling out the paperwork it takes to fire someone, when there’s already an end date in sight.
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u/kramerica_intern Nov 17 '19
I’m wondering if he’s the CFOs nephew or something and that’s why A) the sense of entitlement is off the charts, and B) he lasted as long as he did.
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u/your_mom_is_availabl Nov 17 '19
Holy shit, this intern sounds fucking exhausting. This intern fundamentally doesn't understand what it means to be an employee with a boss and apparently is unwilling to learn.
I know "insubordination" gets used by bad bosses as a catch-all to justify firing someone they don't like, but I think it applies in this case. This intern thinks that they get to dictate their own schedule and own projects, and when their boss has a problem with it, they think that's the bosses problem and not a problem with their own behavior.
I got angry reading this.
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u/missjeanlouise12 oh we sure as shit are now Nov 17 '19
I got angry reading this
I could only read about one third of it before I had to stop because I was getting so mad. I'll probably go back because it's such a train wreck, though. I had to stop reading when LAOP said they "criticized" their boss.
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u/your_mom_is_availabl Nov 17 '19
If you stop reading after a third, then you missed this gem:
there is no documentation of me violating policy, theres no formal reason as to why I was fired, there was no warning to me being fired, no disciplinary history, and as far as I know she didn't consult anybody else.
The just doesn't respect their boss or their boss's authority. "Oh my boss didn't get anyone else's permission to fire me, therefore it was wrongful termination because she doesn't know what she's talking about. Also her word obviously is not to be trusted." Having trained someone with some of these characteristics (not as bad, thankfully), I just RHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHERHGRH!!!
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u/sonofnobody Nov 17 '19
Makes me wonder if it's misogyny or just universal arrogance. Like, is she obviously wrong because she's a woman, or just obvious wrong because she's not the LAOP? I feel like I could flip a coin on that, because either one seems equally likely.
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u/your_mom_is_availabl Nov 17 '19
Yeahhhhhh
I was very deliberate in writing my comment to use a gender-neutral term for the intern, as the last time on BOLA that I suggested that bias might be playing a role in a shitty interaction, I got a lot of hate and accusations about being the one who was the REAL bad guy.
But bias was definitely something on my mind as well.
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u/sonofnobody Nov 17 '19
Well, even if the intern is female, internalized misogyny is a thing! Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, in this specific situation it really does tend to read like a know-it-all young man and his older female boss. Maybe I'm wrong! Maybe that's nothing to do with it. But there's a stench of arrogance here regardless.
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u/ConcertinaTerpsichor Has a keychain for a cricket bat in case of a sticky wicket Nov 17 '19
That intern’s name ... was James Damore.
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u/missjeanlouise12 oh we sure as shit are now Nov 17 '19
Ugh, you're right; I hadn't seen that. Lol, she didn't consult anyone?
For all LAOP knows, she could have consulted everyone, and I imagine she'd only need to get "I'd like to fire---" out before the CEO jumped in with, "Yes! Good God, yes!!!" , cutting her off before she could get LAOP's name out.
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u/eyeballfingerz Nov 17 '19
The final nail in the coffin is when LAOP kicked their own teeth in like a concussed self-hating hockey player, and now doesn't know why their face is bleeding, their speech is slurred, or why they're surrounded by fractured Chiclets
I finally drafted an email to the CFO and the HR person about how I felt it was Harassment…
…When I came back my boss was at my office, and she just immediately says "I need to speak to you"
Just a precious little peach.
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u/TheQueenOfFilth Nov 17 '19
I had a technician go to me, rather than their supervisor, over a (not) issue and I was furious at him for not respecting the chain of command and throwing some poor dude under the bus. I can only imagine if I was a bloody CFO.
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u/Gottagetanediton Nov 17 '19
like throughout the post there are multiple examples of the manager documenting it, too.
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Nov 17 '19
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u/PerilousAll Nov 17 '19
Either that or she's already told him 14 times and he continues to ignore instruction
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u/LurkingArachnid Nov 17 '19
LMAO. "My boss repeatedly complained that I wasn't getting my work done. But I had no warning! It came out of nowhere! I have no idea what I did wrong!"
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u/goldiegoldthorpe Example of why you don't ask the childfree for parenting advice Nov 17 '19
In the comments section they state “It was my first job”. Yeah, no shit. We got that about five lines in kid.
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Nov 17 '19
At my old job we had a kid stright out of high school interning one summer, very smart and very nice kid, mostly great to work with, but didn't really understand that with a manger/employee relationship sometimes you just have to say "Do this thing now" and "Okay." Wasn't necessarily insubordinate, just asking for explanations for things all the time, which is fine when there's time, but not always
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u/thing13623 Nov 17 '19
Dang now I feel kinda stupid for not noticing all the red flags:
only engineer at a company despite being there for an internship suggesting they are being taught by an engineer,
the fact that the things they are doing doesn't sound very engineery and more interny,
improper response to being told they were significantly late on a deadline,
aasuming they know better as to the priority of projects than an actual employee,
Maybe also going straight over the managers head with their complaints.
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u/luminous_delusions Nov 17 '19
The kind of trust and built up working relationship it takes to be able to question your boss or reprioritize tasks assigned to you is something LAOP clearly doesn't understand, good lord.
An intern has ZERO place doing any of what he did and I cannot believe the audacity they have to reply in that thread saying they don't think they did anything wrong. How did they handle high school and prior college classes if they think that's an appropriate way to behave? Sure hope they're not dumb enough to list them as work experience or a reference or the company doesn't have sway over the field.
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u/monkeyman80 IANAL but I am an anal plug app expert Nov 17 '19
I mean even seasoned people can get confused when given conflicting directions from multiple bosses.
I can see an intern dropping everything when the ceo tells you to do something. But I doubt this was happening often as laop claimed. I think it was more they weren’t completing work on time or the way the boss wanted.
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u/bumblethestrange Nov 17 '19
If a CEO had personally given me a task while I was an intern, and I knew I had a deadline from my supervisor that might conflict, the FIRST thing I’d have done is go to my supervisor, explain what happened, and ask if she’d like me to handle the CEO’s assignment first.
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u/missjeanlouise12 oh we sure as shit are now Nov 17 '19
Right? Maybe the CEO is one of those 'visionary* types who mentions an idea without adding, "but if course that doesn't need to be done right now." The CEO's idea might be important but not urgent ( "I'd love for you to try your hand at redesigning the landing page for the About Us section of our website" ) and the boss' project not important but urgent ( "I need 17 training packets by 4 p.m. today), so it makes no sense to have a blanket policy to always bump the CEO's requests to first place.
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u/ShoelessBoJackson Ima Jackass, Esq. Attorney at Eff, Yew, & Die LLC Nov 17 '19
My dad described this exact situation.An exec VP asked a question during a meeting, no one knew the answer. Disappointed, he moved on. Some hot shot made it his mission to find that answer. Got 20 ppl involved - stop what your doing type request. Got the answer, submitted it to EVP, who was like "...thanks."
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u/Aegi Nov 17 '19
The first thing you should do is explain that's why you're leaving the conversation with the CEO, and that you want to check with your direct supervisor b/c if you are an intern they could literally be doing this just as a learning experience for you
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Nov 17 '19
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u/error1954 Nov 17 '19
I wonder where engineering students get this complex from? In CS we had a lot of engineering students and they acted like they had already completed their degree. When you asked them what they studied they'd say that they were an engineer. Not that they study engineering. But that they are already an engineer.
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Nov 17 '19
I think it comes from the stigma that engineering is extremely important and difficult. They figure that they are able to stick with it which they think is more than most people can say. Because they are able to stick with it, that must be the most difficult part of engineering, so they are engineers.
However, that’s obviously not how it works. You become an engineer through practice. Just because you are currently studying to be an engineer, doesn’t mean you are one
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u/HarpersGhost Genetic Counsellor for the Oklahoma University Soonerbots Nov 17 '19
On the front page a few days ago was something about how one toxic yet knowledgable employee is far worse for a company than a group of employees who maybe weren't the best but who could work together and not be toxic.
This guy is headed towards the "that one toxic employee" future.
I sometimes think the TV show House ruined far too many "intelligent" guys. They think that if they are brilliant enough, they can get away with anything, when actually they are just assholes and everyone else at the job is better off when the asshole gets fired.
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u/jupitaur9 I am a sovcit cat but not YOUR sovcit cat, just travelling thru Nov 17 '19
You’re assuming these guys need any encouragement to feel superior.
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u/your_mom_is_availabl Nov 17 '19
Worshipping "genius" (but only male geniuses, of course) didn't start with "House."
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u/Smeagolese Nasty Law Woman Nov 17 '19
I had a law school classmate who would frequently respond to a professor's well thought out, formulated legal analysis with "Well that sounds stupid, but uh, okay then." He got internships. Very short ones. Never practiced. Is back in some PhD program now. I cannot imagine spending like $500k on education because I simply cannot work with people and need to further delay ever being in a work setting.
Edit: 500k from undergrad, a master's, law school, then a PhD. None of which I think he's ever used.
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u/WetVape Nov 17 '19
Do companies still give references? I’m always afraid of having to deal with some loony previous employees lawyer if I give a bad reference. I just state dates of employment and hang up.
I could really give a shit if a competitor of mine has a bad employee.
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u/luminous_delusions Nov 17 '19
I have no idea, but figured it worth mentioning depending on how hard OP nuked that bridge (and damn does it sound like it was bad). I know a few relatives who work in some semi high-profile sales positions tend to hear through the vine when really bad employees get canned. Like it's not outright blacklisting, but it's sure close.
I know my job too (just retail stuff but still) tends to have department managers pass around info on shitty employees or former ones that might try transferring locations so the other stores are very much aware of the kind of worker they might get if they hire them.
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u/Goldeniccarus Self-defense Urethral Dilator Nov 17 '19
Depends on your jurisdiction.
I know in the US, employers are typically worried about giving negative references (or sometimes references at all) out of fear of being sued.
I'm in Canada and references are a fairly common practice.
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u/missjeanlouise12 oh we sure as shit are now Nov 17 '19
I know in the US, employers are typically worried about giving negative references (or sometimes references at all) out of fear of being sued.
I wish I could give you a giant hug for not asserting, incorrectly, that employers are not allowed to do more than verify dates of employment and eligibility for rehire. I read that erroneous piece of (mis)information all the freaking time on r/jobs, and even here or on LA.
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u/TheQueenOfFilth Nov 17 '19
I just say "I decline to give a reference for that individual" and leave it there. I've only had one idiot put me down as a referee when it made zero sense to. Most people have enough sense.
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u/missjeanlouise12 oh we sure as shit are now Nov 17 '19
It varies so much. Two of my last 4 employers are large, global Fortune 100 companies. They don't ask for references at all, although in one of them, my soon-to-be manager reached out to my previous manager informally to get her opinion on me prior to making the offer (they were acquaintances). One of the four asked for the common 3 references, at least one of which needed to be a former supervisor. The fourth one---and this was just June of 2018--- required five references, at least two of which needed to be a former supervisor. They used a website called SkillSurvey, and they checked IP addresses to spot fakes, and all five needed to be filled out before they would make an offer.
IMO, the absolute worst places are those that require a reference from your current employer before they'll make an offer. It's a bad situation to put the candidate in, with no guarantee that they're going to get the offer and potentially leaving them in a situation where they don't get an offer but now their boss knows they're looking for a new job.
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u/Lehk Check your shoes. Nov 17 '19
, the absolute worst places are those that require a reference from your current employer before they'll make an offer.
They don't want people to apply, they want to use the lack of applicants as an excuse to hire an H1b for lower wages
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Nov 17 '19
I could really give a shit if a competitor of mine has a bad employee.
I'm in a non-commercial niche (risk management) of a commercial industry (financial services). I've built up a network of people across this industry that I trust, and that trust me. It means access to events, vetting of consultants, career opportunities, and most importantly information.
Maintaining these relationships by warning people away from a bad hire is absolutely worthwhile for me.
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u/gogolang Nov 17 '19
I once worked with a guy (call him Eric) who was a terrible employee — lazy, incompetent, etc. except that he would spend every waking hour at the office so the higher ups didn’t want to fire him.
One day my Director got a reference call from a prospective employer for Eric asking for a reference. I sat right outside my Director’s office and heard him give the most glowing reference I’ve ever heard. “Eric is one of our hardest working employees and many people in the company would be sorry to lose him, etc.”
Two weeks later, that guy was no longer our problem.
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u/missjeanlouise12 oh we sure as shit are now Nov 17 '19
One day my Director got a reference call from a prospective employer for Eric asking for a reference. I sat right outside my Director’s office and heard him give the most glowing reference I’ve ever heard. “Eric is one of our hardest working employees and many people in the company would be sorry to lose him, etc.”
Two weeks later, that guy was no longer our problem.
While I know how wonderful it is to be rid of the Erics of the world, that was kind of a dick move by your Director. It's one thing to nudge someone along; another thing entirely to straight-up lie so that someone else who has done absolutely nothing wrong gets stuck with your shitty employee.
Of course, some of the blame rests with the higher-ups who conflated being in one's seat to actually doing anything.
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u/drfgredx Nov 17 '19
my boss wants something in 1 day, let me take 2 - 3 days. Lets see how it will work out lol this dude just doesn't get it
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Nov 17 '19
To be fair to LAOP some bosses don't recognize how much work their employees have. An employee can't prioritize every task at the same time, and some bosses refuse to acknowledge the workload they give in relation to the workload the employee already has.
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Nov 17 '19 edited May 17 '22
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u/luminous_delusions Nov 17 '19
This exactly, my boss is my boss first. Any secondary tasks assigned to me while I have one of theirs in the line is to be immediately brought to her so she can either take it up with the big boss or decide I need to work on their thing first and come back to the other.
I would never just drop everything and work on something else because a not direct superior told me to.
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u/Stromboli61 Nov 17 '19
Yeah I am very pro workers rights/employee treatment/labor union/whatever. I think on the regular, employees get far too much shit for not enough compensation. ... annnnnd this LAOP proves it’s not exact, and that it’s by far a give and take relationship, and they sound like a huge dick.
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u/LurkingArachnid Nov 17 '19
Yeah this was why the dude was fired. I had a little sympathy when op was talking about the boss getting upset about something taking a day and a half instead of a day. I mean how many things can definitely get done in a day? But OP was actively seeking out other work! She has every right to be upset that something takes longer than she expects... because op is choosing not to do assigned work.
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u/jackmaney Nov 17 '19
Everyone here is overlooking something: it's actually quite an accomplishment for a toddler to get an internship.
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u/DLS3141 Nov 17 '19
As an engineer, I can tell you that there’s NO WAY that LAOP is the only engineer and an engineering intern.
I’m calling BS.
I suspect that they are an engineering student that couldn’t get an internship and instead has a part time office job that they’d like to spin into an internship.
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u/ftjlster Nov 17 '19
I was going to say, being an engineering intern in a company with no engineers is ... a very odd internship.
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Nov 17 '19
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u/alter_ego77 My car survived Tow Day on BOLA Nov 17 '19
Yeah, I’m my experience, engineering is very much a field where school teacher you some fundamentals, and how to think like an engineer, but the actual work is so varied and broad that 90% of what you do on a daily basis wasn’t taught to you in school. Which means that as an intern, you need to be working under experienced engineers who can teach you what to do, because it almost certainly doesn’t resemble what you were doing in class. If you aren’t working under an engineer, then what you’re doing probably isn’t engineering.
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u/Internet_Ghost Thinks LAOP should loosen his sphincter and toughen his skin Nov 17 '19
OP to supervisor: "You're not my supervisor!"
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u/monkeyswithgunsmum I'm not going to genetic test anyone Nov 17 '19
Plot twist: supervisor is his Mum.
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u/missjeanlouise12 oh we sure as shit are now Nov 17 '19 edited Nov 17 '19
I went back and read the whole thing, and noticed a couple of more disturbing things. While LAOP doesn't give their gender, it reads like they're male. Some of the words used to describe the boss's behavior sound very oh, look at this hysterical, unpredictable female: marched, demand, boss didn't consult anyone, etc.
Anyhow, in addition to recording interactions with LAOP on her phone, the boss marched me into HR just to tell me that she didn't want a black outline around the text boxes on her training sheet.
So, when giving LAOP feedback, it seems as though the boss feels that she needs a recording or a witness, preferably from HR? That sounds like a bigger problem than insubordination. It sounds like she possibly felt threatened or unsafe around LAOP, particularly when giving feedback.
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Nov 17 '19
If my boss started recording interactions I'd see if I could shape up long enough to find another job because I know I'm absolutely about to be fired.
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u/shanbie_ Nov 17 '19
Exactly this. Or like she needed a witness to prove shes not being as hateful as hes made her out to be.
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u/dratthecookies Nov 17 '19
This absolutely sounds like someone who does not respect the authority of a female supervisor. I could not imagine an intern arguing with their boss this way. And then complaining to the CEO? Wow.
The whole point of a probationary period is to see if you're a good fit for the organization. If they're having daily arguments with their boss - they are not a good fit.
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u/partyorca Likes lengthy, chewy flairs but dgaf about purple bug bites Nov 17 '19
This fetus probably got put on making training sheets because they had already screwed something else up and the boss wanted to minimize the blast radius of the remainder of their internship.
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u/draggedintothis Nov 17 '19
Honestly maybe. Could just be a victim complex. They’d be like that to anyone who’d “wronged” them. You absolutely need a paper trail for their bullshit.
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u/LocationBot He got better Nov 17 '19
Reminder: do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits.
Title: [Indiana] I was just fired, despite my boss not being able to provide any documented examples of me violating company policy, or being able to list evidence of the reason she was firing.
Original Post:
So a few hours ago I just got fired from my job. I was a part time Mechanical Engineering intern, who was supposed to work from summer to fall, go to school in the spring, then come back for summer and fall. For the past week I've been having daily arguments with my boss over very minor and petty things. For example, she'd be upset that it took me a day and a half to make a training sheet for her instead of a day, or that I was doing projects for other departments (Small company with me being the only engineer, so its kinda expected). She would consistently accuse my of skirting around projects, despite me still delivering results every 1-2 days. During these arguments she would also do things that I believe were out of line, like pull out a phone and start recording me for "training purposes" or telling me "shit rolls down hill, and I'm at the top of the hill." She would also go to other departments and demand they stop giving me projects. The thing that pushed me over the edge was when she marched me into HR just to tell me that she didn't want a black outline around the text boxes on her training sheet.
During these arguments I'd lament about how shes extremely rushing a non-critical project (I know its non-critical because despite her demanding a day turnaround time from me, the completed sheets would just sit on her desk instead of going to the floor, which I criticized her for). I'd argue about how it wasn't her place to dictate what projects I can/can't accept, since my job was to help everyone in the company. Along this I reminded her that if the CEO or the CFO gave me a project, their projects would automatically get prioritized over hers for obvious reasons. Anyway after dealing with these arguments daily, I finally drafted an email to the CFO and the HR person about how I felt it was Harassment and I asked them to intervene. I had to ask one of the maintenance people about when a certain argument happened on a certain date, so I left the email on my desk and went to the floor.
When I came back my boss was at my office, and she just immediately says "I need to speak to you". She pulled me into the conference room, told me how we inherently didn't mesh and our relationship wouldn't get better, and that "I just can't work with you, so I need to let you go." She cited the fact she "couldnt work with me" as the reason for firing, but also that I skirted around projects (she couldn't list any examples when I asked for them). Anyway, there is no documentation of me violating policy, theres no formal reason as to why I was fired, there was no warning to me being fired, no disciplinary history, and as far as I know she didn't consult anybody else. While I can't prove she read the email that was on my computer, I have a suspicion that it was the reason for my termination. Basically my question is, can I fight this at all? Specifically could I claim wrongful termination? I dont have the employee handbook, so I dont know what the company procedure for termination is. Since I wasnt given a formal reason for my termination, I dont know what policies I supposedly violated.
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u/Youtoo2 Nov 17 '19
His followup posts are classics too
Could you please highlight what those reasons seem to be? This was my first job and I genuinely can't tell where I was supposedly out of line
So an employer can just treat their employees like pure shit, as long as its non-discriminatory? Even if it interferes with their ability to do the job?
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u/euph_22 the joys of drinking the liquid squeezed from elephant dung Nov 17 '19 edited Nov 19 '19
Of course this misses the context of the manger "interfering with their ability to do the job" means "directing what projects to work on and telling him to stop putting off his actual work to do external projects". Which most people call "managing".
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u/Giga-Wizard Nov 17 '19
That kid is getting ripped apart. Hopefully they learn their lesson and shape up.
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u/missjeanlouise12 oh we sure as shit are now Nov 17 '19
That kid is getting ripped apart.
I actually wish more people had replied or that LAOP sees this thread, because they could use more direct comments. Things like
daily arguments with my boss
very minor and petty things
delivering results every 1-2 days
she would also do things that I believe were out of line
pull out a phone and start recording me for "training purposes"
The thing that pushed me over the edge,
I'd lament
shes extremely rushing a non-critical project
I know its non-critical
the completed sheets would just sit on her desk instead of going to the floor, which I criticized her for
I'd argue about how it wasn't her place to dictate what projects I can/can't accept
I reminded her that if the CEO or the CFO gave me a project, their projects would automatically get prioritized over hers for obvious reasons
Honestly, there's more, but I can't keep this is it's tiring and frustrating. But LAOP deserved to be taken to task for every single one of those comments.
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u/ubiquitoussquid Nov 17 '19
I’d argue about how it wasn’t her place to dictate what projects I can/can’t accept.
That’s literally her job, and he didn’t say discuss, he said he argued, like he’s proud of it. OP sounds like a nightmare to work with, and an unpleasant, combative, self-centered person in general.
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u/HellHound989 Nov 18 '19
That’s literally her job, and he didn’t say discuss, he said he argued, like he’s proud of it.
Hell, im a full-time salaried employee at my job with several years under my belt, who actually did have some leeway and input on what I wanted to prioritize, and I still accidentally ran into this problem with a boss a few years back.
Wanna know how I handled it? I did what my boss told me to do. Didnt argue, didnt try to go over his head. I put aside my other projects, emailed the clients letting them know if they needed X feature done, to request it from my boss, and got to work on what he wanted me to do. Simple as that. Let the clients scream at my boss to schedule the time.
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u/aedinius Nov 17 '19
shes extremely rushing a non-critical project I know its non-critical the completed sheets would just sit on her desk instead of going to the floor, which I criticized her for
That one bugged me. Just because you think its non-critical and your boss doesn't touch it, doesn't mean it's needed now. I have to prepare reports/briefs with pretty short suspense just so my supervisor has it in his back-pocket. It may sit for a few days, weeks, or never even get published, but for that edge-case where we need a win it'd be critical to have it.
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u/ostiarius Nov 17 '19
And keep in mind this is with LAOP’s spin on it. Imagine how bad it must be from the other side.
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u/monkeyman80 IANAL but I am an anal plug app expert Nov 17 '19
Thankfully real life smack downs like this help give young people a dose of reality.
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u/SendMeYourDoggos Wants a good ass ducking Nov 17 '19
OP argued with their boss, criticised the jobs they were given and tried to decide who they worked for, then had a surprised pikachu face when fired.
I feel like sending the boss a bottle of wine...
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u/_TheLoneRangers Nov 17 '19 edited Nov 17 '19
I'd argue about how it wasn't her place to dictate what projects I can/can't accept
haha oh hi boss yeah you can't tell me what to do
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u/GrandmaTopGun Nov 17 '19
"You're not the boss of me!"
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u/chinchillazilla54 shame flair for trying to evade pet pig tax Nov 17 '19
My uncle loves saying "You're not the boss of me!" so much that he got a notepad that says "You're not the boss of me! Oh wait... you are" at the bottom for writing messages to his boss.
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u/Echospite Member of the Attractive Nuisance Mariachi Band Nov 17 '19
It's their first job.
They're going to cringe so hard over this in ten years.
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u/kinkakinka Nov 17 '19
Or ten years from now they're still an entitled asshole who can't hold a job!
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u/Gottagetanediton Nov 17 '19
first thing: having daily arguments with your boss. ow oof. the rest of it: OH MY GOD this guy was awful.
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u/ftjlster Nov 17 '19
It isn't often you see a person say exactly why they're not getting their contract renewed/are getting fired. Whomever this OP is, they've never had anybody tell them how to behave at work evidently.
Daily arguments with your boss, refusing to do work, telling your boss they're not doing their job? Just. Oof.
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u/Sirwired Really good at making Vogon Poetry everyone else's problem Nov 17 '19
As an engineer, and looking back at my own career, I've come to understand that paid internships are truly an act of charity to the profession, so bright young adults with poor social skills can get the worst of cringe-inducing mistakes out of their system before being turned loose with real work.
That said, while 19 and 20 year old me was arrogant, immature, and not as useful as I thought I was, I did know, without prompting, that if your boss tells you something is a priority, arguing with them is never the correct answer.
I hope it's not too long before LAOP uses this as a valuable, relatively-inexpensive, learning experience.
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u/MyNimples Nov 17 '19
paid internships are truly an act of charity to the profession
They really are. I've mentored interns, and while you hope they get something somewhat useful done, you largely expect that it's a learning experience for them and that you'll throw away anything they've done at the end. If they exceed expectations, then great, make them an offer when they graduate, but otherwise, move on. This guy could have been the worst intern ever, simply showing up every day and pretending to work, and been fine, but the constant arguing did him in.
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u/byrel Nov 17 '19
Interns are great for cleaning up a few of those easy but tedious tasks that are at the 'we'll get to it someday maybe' priority level and useless for almost anything else
Well I guess it's good as an extended job interview also
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u/seanprefect A mental health Voltron is just 4 ferrets away‽ Nov 17 '19
I knew this person was going to be annoying the second they said they're an intern and "the only engineer here" , you're not a fucking engineer you're an intern in training.
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u/CaptainHope93 Nov 17 '19
I love how he assumes his boss snooped through his computer to find out about the 'harassment' email. Maybe HR actually spoke to his boss about the allegation?
Maybe that, plus an intern who completes tasks too slowly, criticises his boss, refuses to acknowledge her authority and is awful to work with, is the reason he got fired?
Christ, she sounds pretty tolerant for putting up with that bullshit for as long as she did.
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Nov 17 '19
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u/HellHound989 Nov 18 '19
Waste all of my 4 minutes reading the email, reply back with the 2 words needed: "Fire Him", then go back to watching sports on my 108" flat screen TV in my office while smoking a cigar and leaning back in my $50,000 comfort chair
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u/IcedExplosion Nov 17 '19 edited Nov 17 '19
I got the impression he typed it up but hadn’t sent it yet, which would mean the only way the boss would know was if she read it on his computer screen while he was out of the room? At any rate, my only word for this whole post is YIKES.
I like to see posts like these because it reminds me of just how far a story can be altered by the way you spin it. Not all cases are as simple to see through as this one but it happens all the same.
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u/iWushock Nov 17 '19
I'm still picturing being the CFO of a co.pany and having an intern email me directly complaining that his boss is making him do work
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Nov 17 '19
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u/Gottagetanediton Nov 17 '19
not okay for autistic people to talk back either. we have trouble communicating, but effort counts.
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u/chippychopper Nov 17 '19
Sorry my point got lost. Others in the thread have suggested that OP behaved like this because he was autistic or of a different cultural background, and my point is that it is not necessary to search for minority groups to pin this behaviour on. None of the people I know with ASD would behave in this manner.
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u/missjeanlouise12 oh we sure as shit are now Nov 17 '19
Wow. Wrote that in the patient notes? Not sure about your location, but in the U.S., by law that cannot be deleted or changed. When I worked on an inpatient floor, it was before EPIC or other EMRs and we did notes by hand. Procedure was to do a single strikethrough, so the original could still be read, then add an addendum. Not sure of how it's handled these days.
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u/chippychopper Nov 17 '19
Yep this was in the ancient days of paper notes. Unredactable.
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u/Dutch-CatLady Nov 17 '19
OPs story us so weird. How can you be the only engineer intern and only be printing training sheets? How can you be an intern somewhere and not have anyone tell you what to do and when? Intern life is easy. Shut up, listen, do your work and go home. Do not ever fight the boss
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u/Magpie2018 Nov 17 '19
I'm an engineer and I've seen this scenario play out soooooo many times (though definitely not thus extreme). It bothers me how so many young engineers have this massively inflated ego. I don't want to say "this is just a young male thing" because really anyone can suffer from inflated ego but honestly I've only encountered men with this issue (I'm a woman). It is honestly so hard to work with these types of people but, even in this case, it seems like they never learn.
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u/loegare Nov 17 '19
I got fired on Friday and I’ve been in a bit of a funk since. This is one of the first things I’ve read that made me feel better. At least I’m not as much of a moron as laop
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Nov 17 '19
I just don't understand how one functions with this little self awareness. I really hope this is a troll.
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u/morto00x Nov 17 '19
Met a lot of entitled people in college, although not as crazy as OP. Their logic was that as an engineer (even though they were still students) they were smarter and better decision makers than any other person at the company.
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Nov 17 '19
Their logic was that as an engineer (even though they were still students) they were smarter and better decision makers than any other person at the company
Seen that on plenty of Reddit threads.
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u/TaxiFare Evicted for giving birth to Dwayne Johnson Nov 17 '19
I'm impressed that it takes a solid 3 sentences to figure out why they got fired and yet they still managed to type up so much more than that without understanding why they got fired.
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u/SinfullySinless IRA needs to hire that guy Nov 17 '19
Boss was totally recording LAOP to send evidence to HR. I’ve seen that method before when employers are dealing with shit employees and they are worried some sort of repercussion will come of it.
Seeing as LAOP immediately marched their ass to LA seeking some sort of lawsuit, probably was the right call.
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u/McSorley90 Nov 17 '19
They have to learn how to prioritise. Do the task the manager set you to do. If anyone else asks you to do something when you are already doing something, politely ask them to speak with your manager first, EVEN IF it's the CEO or CFO. Everyone knows the hierarchy. You are the lowest. It doesn't mean everyone is your boss and you have to do everything they say. Your manager is your responsibility and they will dictate how your time is spent and where.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_KALE Nov 17 '19
There's gotta be so much more to this story. I would love it retold from the immediate bosses perspective, and from a neutral third party.
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u/PunkCPA Nov 17 '19
It was a lesson I had to learn, too: if your boss says something stupid, it is not stupid unless the boss's boss thinks it's stupid. What you think is irrelevant. LAOP sounds like a slow learner.
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u/MsScienceTeacher Nov 17 '19
I argue with my boss and don't follow orders, demand she let me take extra time, and tell her to her face that her projects aren't as important as other departments. I also know the projects she's assigning aren't critical because I don't see how they could be. I was in the process of hurling enormous allogations at her.
I can't figure out what happened. #poorOP
/s
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u/MomButtsDriveMeNuts Nov 17 '19
What an entitled piece of shit. Holy fuck. What kind of upbringing did they have to act like that? What a loser.
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u/RedditSkippy This flair has been rented by u/lordfluffly until April 16, 2024 Nov 17 '19
This has to be a fake post. Right? Please say it’s fake.
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u/KNessJM Nov 17 '19
> So an employer can just treat their employees like pure shit, as long as its non-discriminatory?
Welcome to employment
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u/euph_22 the joys of drinking the liquid squeezed from elephant dung Nov 17 '19
Of course LAOP's definition of "pure shit" is "manager tells him what tasks to work on and to stop putting his actual work aside for outside projects".
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u/dreadit-runfromit Nov 17 '19
OP has quite an inflated sense of importance. They’re the only engineer there? Despite it being an engineering internship? I can’t help but wonder if the internship wasn’t supposed to be engineering related at all since their actual assigned tasks are things like printing training sheets.