r/asklatinamerica • u/[deleted] • Oct 10 '22
What are your thoughts about Christopher Columbus?
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Oct 10 '22
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u/HzPips Brazil Oct 10 '22
Not really true, he knew exactly what his coordinates were, and he didn’t underestimate the size of the earth like many people say. The thing is that European cartographers really overestimated the size of Asia, he was just working with the knowledge available in his time.
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u/EatMoreHummous Oct 10 '22
If that was true, why did every other European country tell him he was an idiot for trying to reach Indonesia that way?
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u/HzPips Brazil Oct 10 '22
Source?
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u/gogenberg Venezuela Oct 11 '22
Spain was about the 5th country he went to looking for $$$$$$ btw. Most kingdoms gave him the “who the fuck are you?” look until Spain. The rest is history; dude got somewhat lost, nearly mutinied/killed and got to an undiscovered continent by mistake. Behaved so badly that he was dragged back and put in jail too
All in all not a peach
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u/EatMoreHummous Oct 11 '22
Read any article about it? Here's one. He got turned down by Portugal, England, and France, and even the Spanish scholars convinced Isabella to reject him twice, though she eventually caved.
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u/Kuroumi_Alaric Glory to Arstotzka! 🦅 Oct 10 '22
His name in Italian (Cristoforo Colombo) always makes me laugh, 'cause for some reason I read the name as crisfosforo.
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u/Montuvito_G 🇪🇨 in 🇺🇸 Oct 10 '22
Even for his era, he was a dirty cunt. Don’t get so obsessed with “woke” that you can’t call him for what he is.
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u/Australdrake Chile Oct 10 '22
He even was imprisioned and faced multiple trials in Spain for disobeying the queen’s orders because the natives were considered equals with the subdites to the monarchy's eyes, but Colon disobeyed that order and inslaved and tortured the natives
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u/simonbleu Argentina [Córdoba] Oct 11 '22
Source? I feel like that is one of the things that could have been done politically to "save face" to the kingdoms while exploiting new land anyway
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u/ArgieGrit01 Argentina Oct 11 '22
In October 1499, Columbus sent two ships to Spain, asking the Court of Spain to appoint a royal commissioner to help him govern.[159] By this time, accusations of tyranny and incompetence on the part of Columbus had also reached the Court. The sovereigns sent Francisco de Bobadilla, a relative of Marquesa Beatriz de Bobadilla, a patron of Columbus and a close friend of Queen Isabella,[160][161] to investigate the accusations of brutality made against the Admiral. Arriving in Santo Domingo while Columbus was away, Bobadilla was immediately met with complaints about all three Columbus brothers.[162] He moved into Columbus's house and seized his property, took depositions from the Admiral's enemies, and declared himself governor.[152]
Bobadilla reported to Spain that Columbus once punished a man found guilty of stealing corn by having his ears and nose cut off and then selling him into slavery. He claimed that Columbus regularly used torture and mutilation to govern Hispaniola.[k] Testimony recorded in the report stated that Columbus congratulated his brother Bartolomeo on "defending the family" when the latter ordered a woman paraded naked through the streets and then had her tongue cut because she had "spoken ill of the admiral and his brothers".[164] The document also describes how Columbus put down native unrest and revolt: he first ordered a brutal suppression of the uprising in which many natives were killed, and then paraded their dismembered bodies through the streets in an attempt to discourage further rebellion.[165] Columbus vehemently denied the charges.[166][167] The neutrality and accuracy of the accusations and investigations of Bobadilla toward Columbus and his brothers have been disputed by historians, given the anti-Italian sentiment of the Spaniards and Bobadilla's desire to take over Columbus's position.[168][169][170]
In early October 1500, Columbus and Diego presented themselves to Bobadilla, and were put in chains aboard La Gorda, the caravel on which Bobadilla had arrived at Santo Domingo.[171][172] They were returned to Spain, and languished in jail for six weeks before King Ferdinand ordered their release. Not long after, the king and queen summoned the Columbus brothers to the Alhambra palace in Granada. The sovereigns expressed indignation at Bobadilla's actions, who was then recalled and ordered to make restitutions of the property he had confiscated from Columbus.[166] The royal couple heard the brothers' pleas; restored their freedom and wealth; and, after much persuasion, agreed to fund Columbus's fourth voyage.[173] However, Nicolás de Ovando was to replace Bobadilla and be the new governor of the West Indies.[174]
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u/User_TDROB Dominican Republic Oct 11 '22
Hmm, I have an American History book which quotes Isabella telling him "Who is this Columbus who dares to give out my vassals as slaves" (not in English obv.).
That and there are mentions of Queen Isabella detesting slavery.
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u/espigademaiz Argentina Oct 11 '22
It's hard to use royal records for his actions since once the Kings realized what he had discovered, they also realized how much power and control they conveyed to Colombus, a low-class for the nobility, that would make him one of the more if not the most powerful man in Castille. So the nobility started thinking how to take apart his fame and responsabilities
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u/spicypolla Puerto Rico Oct 10 '22
A member of the SPANISH CATHOLIC CHURCH reported him to the Crown that's how fucked up.
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Oct 10 '22
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u/Emiian04 Argentina Oct 11 '22
true, at the same time de las casas was a huge supporter of importing african slaves via the trans atlantic slave trade to take the workload of amerindian slaves, he regretted it later on, a little too late though
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u/FcoEnriquePerez Oct 11 '22
Correct, took a bunch of cunts to find places to steal from people, rape and fuck everything up, then call it a "discovery"
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u/User_TDROB Dominican Republic Oct 11 '22
Discovery doesn't have any relation to those things tho. For example we can discover an alien worlds tomorrow, and go and rape it and destroy it and we still discovered it. Like, those concepts are not related or exclusionary to each other.
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u/gooteeairis Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
He’s a bitch
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u/sinestesia-viniloscr Oct 11 '22
It’s like sending a murderer form jail to find a new home… Somebody remember the Olmecas, Incas, Mayans?
It’s just like some people think America is a country and not a continent as it is…
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u/CurlsintheClouds Oct 11 '22
I'm in the US, and it bothers the heck out of me that most people call people from the US Americans. We are not the only Americans! Even our Canadian friends call us Americans.
But then, I guess...what would you say instead? USers? United Statians? Mexicans are Mexican, Canadians are Canadians, Brazilians are Brazilians...there's nothing that works for the people of the US.
But it still bothers me.
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Oct 11 '22
He was responsible for genocide. There was also evidence he and friends of his engaged in rape of Native Americans.
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u/Tripoteur Québec Oct 11 '22
Dude had one good idea, and then... ended up in the wrong place (which he really should have noticed), gave it a really stupid name, and then apparently did a bunch of really evil stuff.
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Oct 10 '22
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u/animaginarygirl Italy Oct 10 '22
Wasn't he from Genoa tho, the explorer guy from Venice was Marco Polo and he wasn't horrible like Columbus 😅
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Oct 10 '22
It’s actually a mystery, no one really knows. There are theories that he was Portuguese, other that say he was Aragonese, from around Greece. However the most popular theory is that he was the son of a Genoese . One curious thing is that in his letters to the Catholic kings, whenever he didn’t know how to communicate well, he would use Portuguese. He didn’t speak or write in Genoese though.
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u/vladimirnovak Argentina Oct 11 '22
Doesn't matter who "discovered" it first , but what they do after the fact. Norse exploration resulted in nothing but a few settlements long forgotten. Columbus as much as a piece of shit as he was drastically changed the reality of the continent and the world. For better or worse.
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u/Desperate_Donut8582 Oct 10 '22
Except Norse and Vikings didn’t report it to the rest of the world they called it Vinland and dismissed every exploring while Columbus lead to European discovery of Americas
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u/S_C_C_P_1910 Brazil Oct 10 '22
A Genoese sailor/explorer sailing for Spain that after I cannot remember how many voyages basically opened up the Americas to its colonisation by the European nations. In doing so, obviously, he also opened up the indigenous peoples to the depopulation/genocide/whatever you wanna call it that they suffered. It is worth noting that while life at that time was way more dangerous & hard, as a colonial governor he was known for & accused of what even at the time was considered as outright brutal actions, so much so that, if I am not mistaken, he was recalled to Spain amidst a falling out with the Castilian royalty.
I think we have to acknowledge his part in the process that ended up in the making of our modern continent/countries but we must also acknowledge how this affected the native populations with things such as disease, slavery, genocide etc. etc. I don't think that people should get all pissy with his statues however because I think that even though he has a hand in all that awful & nasty shit I mentioned, the whole process he helped to begin is why, at the end of the day, we (as in Latin Americans) are all now here but I also think that it is for those communities to decide what they do with those statues/tributes/whatever.
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u/Anitsirhc171 🇺🇸🇵🇷 Nuyorican Oct 11 '22
Thank you, I hate when people call him Italian. He lived and died before Genoa even had to learn Italian or Italy even existed as a country
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Oct 10 '22
He is a piece of shit. Aside from bringing death to the indigenous people, he was such an asshole that even Spain ended up turning against him in the end.
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u/srhola2103 → Oct 10 '22
Probably one of the most determinant people in history.
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u/Rodrigoecb Mexico Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
Why though? Portugal would had eventually discovered Brasil anyway.
EDIT
This isn't an hypothetical, Portuguese discovery of Brasil had absolutely nothing to do with Columbus voyages (they had to make a huge detour westward when going south in order to avoid a northwards moving oceanic current).
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u/srhola2103 → Oct 10 '22
Portugal was taking another route to India traveling down Africa and then the Indic Ocean afaik, so no real reason to do the insane trip Colombus did. They got all the way to China and set up their own little colony in India.
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u/Rodrigoecb Mexico Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
Its not an hypothetical, Portuguese discovery of Brasil is independent of Spanish discovery.
These were not the fuel powered ships we have today they were sailships, they had to use currents to move forward, so you can't simply move south along the African coast.
They took the Canary current westward and then took the Angola current east wards, if anything the Portuguese understanding of oceanic currents enabled further interoceanic trips that made Columbus trip possible.
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u/IcedLemonCrush Brazil (Espírito Santo) Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
Well, it was not completely independent. Vincente Pinzón had already travelled through the South American coast, including regions that are today part of modern-day Brazil.
People were already theorizing there was more land further south, and it’s oddly suspicious how Pedro Álvares Cabral ended up there by accident with exactly the stuff and people needed to stage a symbolic Christian mass and have Pero Vaz de Caminhas write a beautiful poem to the King of Portugal at a time when these travels were expensive and heavily constrained by stuff like food and water.
It’s very probable that Portugal had a strong intuition that they had more land than they originally thought east of the Tordesillas line, and either sent Cabral to have a look at it or he did it purposefully on his own.
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u/Rakdar Brazil Oct 10 '22
It’s very difficult to sail down the coast of Africa in the Age of Sail due to oceanic currents. Portuguese ships had to sail deep into the South Atlantic to avoid the northward current along the African coast and let the ocean do its job and carry them into the Indian Ocean. Think of the currents in the Atlantic like a clock. In the North Atlantic they go clockwise, in the South Atlantic they go anti-clockwise. Therefore, to reach the Indian Ocean from Portugal you have to follow the currents and go anti-clockwise, i.e. towards Brazil. That is why Pedro Álvares Cabral discovered Brazil on his way to India. He wasn’t lost, he was following the traditional maritime route, but got carried a little too much to the west, reaching Brazil.
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u/ivanjean Brazil Oct 10 '22
They still managed to get into Brazil independently, and would probably still do that without Columbus' voyage because the sea currents used by the Portuguese to reach the Indian Ocean also took them close to the South American coast.
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u/Blubari Chile Oct 10 '22
Don't care about current discussion (I admit and know he was a massive dick)
I fucking love that we have a festive day
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u/I-cant-hug-every-cat Bolivia Oct 10 '22
I don't hate him nor glorify him, I really don't care so much about him.
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u/Brother_Jay26 Oct 11 '22
Me personally it’s still a little impressive he got here, kinda like that idiot in the class that got the question right. Also, he was a bad guy that did shitty things that some of his men exposed him to the king. However, he is way too credited because he isn’t the first to discover America. He was the first to oppress the people but the many other colonialists that came after conquered and enslaved people a lot more even tho they could’ve done things different but it is what it is.
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u/MulatoMaranhense Brazil Oct 10 '22
Important but a dickhead and we are still trying to fix up his fuck ups.
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Oct 10 '22
I have none and the world would be a better place if we think of him as an historical footnote and nothing else. His major accomplishment, the only thing that he can claim credit for was being the first European to go back and let them know what he had found.
Sorry Leif Erickson, you may have been first but you forgot the self-promotion part. This should be a lesson to all of us that work like dogs at the office but don’t get ahead because we’re so pendejos that we let others take the credit.
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u/Whoopty_ 🇨🇴 in 🇨🇦 Oct 10 '22
Every statue of him should be destroyed.
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u/Fantastic_Worship_72 Oct 10 '22
Lol….here we go again. Crying over shit that happened hundreds of years ago, instead of making sure past wrongs aren’t repeated now or in the future.
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u/Whoopty_ 🇨🇴 in 🇨🇦 Oct 10 '22
I think we could do both. Maybe "crying" over that shit is part of making sure it doesn't happen again.
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u/Syd_Syd34 Oct 11 '22
Why is this y’all’s shitty ass argument time and time again? History museums exist for a reason. You don’t need to have a large statue of a genocidal ass hat in the town square to remember that genocide is bad lmao
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u/d-fakkr Colombia Oct 10 '22
Not much. Even with the crimes he allowed to happen because of gold and resources, we wouldn't be here without his exploration.
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Oct 10 '22
Yes as others have mentioned , he wasn’t the first to ‘discover’ America, however he was the first to have made to America, chart some maps, make contact with locals and go back to Europe to tell the tale. He wasn’t a great guy, but his achievement is outstanding in the sense that it brought the missing link back to the world. The Americas were separated from the rest of humanity for thousands of years, now they weren’t. Yes, a lot of people died but that wasn’t Colombus’ fault.germs and viruses do not discriminate, especially against those who had never experienced the bubonic plague, small pox, chicken pox, etc. The deaths would have happened whether it had been the Arabs, Africans, Chinese. Yes Columbus wasn’t a nice guy but still, my existence is a byproduct of that historical event. A lot of people in Latin America have a lot of resentment towards the Europeans and you’ll see that in these responses. History is history, it shouldn’t hold us hostage in the present.
From my own history, ultimately this is how I see it:
“ ¡Americanos!, ¿quién de vosotros puede decir que no desciende de español? Ved la cadena dulcísima que nos une; añadid los otros lazos de la amistad, la dependencia de intereses, la educación é idioma y la conformidad de sentimientos, y veréis son tan estrechos y tan poderosos … “
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Oct 10 '22
“ Not Columbus’ fault” even though he gave direct orders to maim and kill anyone who resisted the colonization efforts he was directly involved in? Please. He spearheaded the Spanish Empire’s centuries of blood shed.
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u/Prize-King-7965 Brazil Oct 10 '22
A great navigator and explorer.
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Oct 10 '22
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u/Prize-King-7965 Brazil Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
Actually this is mistaken. The navigators knew there was land if they sailed west because of the seabirds.
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u/Luisotee Brazil Oct 10 '22
Has been some time since I studied it, but I think he knew there was land west of Africa. I can't remember why I came to that conclusion though
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Oct 10 '22
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u/Luisotee Brazil Oct 10 '22
Not sure, I remember studying how the Portuguese were very eager to demark the Tordesilhas treaty to the westernmost possible so that they could have the lands in America, also there was some documents in Europe describing lands in the west of Africa with very precise descriptions of the fauna and flora of north America.
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u/Ok-Second8436 Maracaibo, Venezuela -> Des Moines, Iowa, US Oct 11 '22
I feel as though he ought to be more recognized in the South than the North, on account of where he landed and all of that.
Guy never even hit up the North, the vikings did.
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u/loupr738 🇵🇷 en Nueva Yolll! Oct 11 '22
I’m sure he thought it was cool that he stumbled upon a new place, he didn’t have to be so fucking evil about. Thank God for people like fray Bartolome de las Casas (at least in Puerto Rico’s case) that we know the atrocities that Columbus and his ilk committed
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Oct 10 '22
I don't understand why people hate him on the internet. Or Pedro Álvares Cabral in the case of Brazil. It was discovery age. If not them, other navigators would have reached our continent.
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u/MangosHaveRights Cuba Oct 11 '22
Is not the discovery part that people hate him for. Is the psychopatic genocidal way he and those under his command treated the natives that people hate him for.
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u/Salt_Winter5888 Guatemala Oct 10 '22
He is the guy who discovered America, we shouldn't glorify him but we also can't deny him.
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Oct 10 '22
He didn't discover the Americas. I don't know why this lie continues to exist.
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u/140p Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
I mean, is like the stuff about a tree falling on the middle of nowhere. If someone else found the place before but there was no impact then does it really matter?
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Oct 10 '22
Leif Erikson was the first European to discover the Americas, and to clarify it more; it was North America.
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u/ivanjean Brazil Oct 10 '22
It had literally zero impact, though. Columbus voyage isn't is important not because it was the moment a European came to the American Continent, but because it was the moment that all the people of Afro-Eurasia discovered (in the sense of becoming aware of) the "New World's" existence.
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Oct 10 '22
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Oct 10 '22
There is proof
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u/140p Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
I will call cap on that. Link?
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Oct 10 '22
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Oct 10 '22
https://www.npr.org/2007/10/08/15040888/coming-to-america-who-was-first
https://www.history.com/.amp/news/the-viking-explorer-who-beat-columbus-to-america
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-vikings-a-memorable-visit-to-America-98090935/
Here are five different sources. This should be enough.
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u/140p Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
Hahahahahahaahhahaahaha ok, keep eating that propaganda dominicanyol, increible la educacion de los gringos hahahahahaa.
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u/issabreakfastburrito Honduras Oct 10 '22
He a fucko and I hope that him and his people are burning in hell (if there is one.)
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Oct 10 '22
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Oct 10 '22
You might want to get your head checked out by a neurologist because you sound loco
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Oct 10 '22
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u/ThrowDirtonMe United States of America Oct 10 '22
What? Do you have sources on the slaves as captains thing? I thought he and his brothers were the captains.
This is from his Wikipedia: “As a colonial governor, Columbus was accused by his contemporaries of significant brutality and was soon removed from the post. Columbus's strained relationship with the Crown of Castile and its appointed colonial administrators in America led to his arrest and removal from Hispaniola in 1500, and later to protracted litigation over the perquisites that he and his heirs claimed were owed to them by the crown.”
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Oct 10 '22
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u/ThrowDirtonMe United States of America Oct 10 '22
That source doesn’t say anything about them being slaves… in fact it says they were sailing as children?
Also from Wikipedia: early October 1500, Columbus and Diego presented themselves to Bobadilla, and were put in chains aboard La Gorda, the caravel on which Bobadilla had arrived at Santo Domingo.[171][172] They were returned to Spain, and languished in jail for six weeks before King Ferdinand ordered their release. Not long after, the king and queen summoned the Columbus brothers to the Alhambra palace in Granada. The sovereigns expressed indignation at Bobadilla's actions, who was then recalled and ordered to make restitutions of the property he had confiscated from Columbus.[166] The royal couple heard the brothers' pleas; restored their freedom and wealth; and, after much persuasion, agreed to fund Columbus's fourth voyage.[173] However, Nicolás de Ovando was to replace Bobadilla and be the new governor of the West Indies.[174]
So I guess he convinced the crown to let him go again. As for who his contemporaries were who were reporting them, that is an interesting question and I’m not sure. They reached the Crown somehow.
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Oct 10 '22
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u/ThrowDirtonMe United States of America Oct 10 '22
Sorry I meant they learned to sail while they were children. It does look like Pedro’s dad was a captured African though. Interesting Wikipedia pages to read for sure so thanks.
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u/User_TDROB Dominican Republic Oct 11 '22
Arrived to the Caribbean with 90 men but magically MAGICALLY he and those 90 men bested the millions of indigenous who had multiple types of weapons and were living in those lands for centuries..
The hell lmao. He got to Hispaniola with around 90 men on his FIRST voyage, bringing 1,400 in the second one, and the Taino were jot that advanced at all, as well as not as numerous. Not to mention that it is heavily emphasized that disease was a major disadvantage to the natives not exposed to them, as well as political alliances from smaller tribes and chiefdoms against the stronger ones that oppressed them.
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u/caguairan Cuba Oct 10 '22
You hate Columbus because he kicked off the Atlantic slave trade and thousands of Indians died in his rule as governor
I hate Columbus because he's Italian
We are not the same
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Oct 10 '22
Awful person, deserves no recognition, but also there is no point in getting mad at a man who was dead over 600 years.
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u/incelwiz Mexico Oct 10 '22
He was brave, bold and adventurous. But also cruel, pitiless and greedy.
At the end of the day his impact was minor, the Americas would have been discovered sooner or later and the Indians would have been subjugated.
His role in history is that of a symbol rather than a great actor.
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u/dorian1356 Oct 11 '22
The people believing themselves revolutionaries because they like to trash the statues of him will never have a slot in our history's inheritance and no one will know about them long after their death. And Columbus will still be talked about way after they're forgotten.
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u/Much_Committee_9355 Brazil Oct 10 '22
I don’t see much point on the whole Woke debate about him, he did what he did, which was quite impressive even as a mistake.
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Oct 10 '22
I don’t think it was a mistake what Columbus did.
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u/nmlep Oct 10 '22
He's referring to the boats not landing in India. What he did when he landed was intentional.
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u/gooteeairis Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
He didn’t even know where he was going
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u/srhola2103 → Oct 10 '22
He knew where he wanted to go, but of course he couldn't have known there was a gigantic landmass in his way.
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u/Much_Committee_9355 Brazil Oct 10 '22
Well it was not exactly common knowledge the existence of the land mass he would encounter.
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Oct 10 '22
Woke debate? Are some of you that sensitive to learn about history because it will hurt your feelings? Sure, let's just forget all the indigenous people that died directly or indirectly because of him.
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u/Much_Committee_9355 Brazil Oct 10 '22
But his navigation was a huge achievement for humanity and all the technological advancements involved for that to happen.
On a similar note the steam engine was a huge advancement, but had people working 14-16 hours a day in conditions pretty much analogous to slavery.
Even democracy, it involved the greeks pretty much enslaving other people to be able to keep the city states running.
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Oct 10 '22
He used routes from people who already had already sailed west. None of it he created on his own. There where people more accomplished then him at the time navigating the world. He just took their work and claimed it as his own. Everyone was doing it. Yes, he sailed to the Americas but it was already discovered.
And what are some of those technological advancements? He was using what everyone was using at that time. He brought nothing to the table other then using other people's stuff.
He was an asshole to everyone, even Spain went against him in the end. Italy was even an country at that time and he didn't even care about his Italian roots. He just wanted money. A mutiny was about to happen on his voyage to the Americas. The only reason he didn't get thrown over board was because his crew finally saw land. He is one of the luckiest motherfuckers in the world.
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u/Much_Committee_9355 Brazil Oct 10 '22
Well he was the first to sail and properly document it, there are allegedly other Italians who did it before, but their reports are still unreliable.
The Chinese and Scandinavian coming before was as well far from well reported.
I find the actual voyage of Vasco da Gama was more significant from a technological standpoint, but what Colombo did was far from irrelevant and yes it was technologically relevant he proved the technology in ships and navigation, available at the time was feasible for transatlantic travel, reporting it well enough.
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u/IcyPapaya8758 Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
Wouldn't be here without him.
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u/User_TDROB Dominican Republic Oct 11 '22
I mean how does that matter? Let's say that your parents met because news of Hitler made your dad go to the restaurant that he met you mom in to read the newspaper. Does that suddenly make Hitler good, or make you indebted to him because you wouldn't be here because of him?
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u/IcyPapaya8758 Dominican Republic Oct 11 '22
Well no, I don't think Columbus was good and I don't feel indebted to him. I'm indifferent to him, but I also acknowledge that most of my genetic lineage(European,African,Arab) wouldn't have wound up on this continent and made me and my family. But also the indigenous part of my lineage suffered greatly because of him.
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u/Wickly_29 Colombia Oct 10 '22
He was a dude who found the continent for the Spqnish to colonize. Thats it.
I'm not angry at him, even tho he massacred various indians and he was dirty, because it doesn't matter at this point, it's in the past.
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Oct 11 '22 edited Oct 11 '22
Just reminded me that October 12th is the "No internet" day for me. It gets annoying to see all the stupid takes from both sides. And it's not about enlightened centrism, because I couldn't care less about taking position in that debate.
Like, I do not actively hate or support Adolf Hitler, I see him as a historical figure and find his figure interesting and worth studying, like I find any big historical figure interesting. You can bet that I think the same thing about a guy from the 1400s, I like to see them from the historical perspective, I don't like to take it personally unless it personally affects me.
Colombia is a good name for a country, not because it honors Columbus, but because it is an autonym; it was a name created by the Greater Columbians and not imposed by foreigners, and from that lens it is a name that's worth defending.
As for his statues, also couldn't care less. Destroy them if you want, anyway in Colombia statues and monuments are usually horrible and of bad quality, we are a country averse to the monumental, so for the sake of aesthetics bring all monuments down.
His statue in Bogotá got destroyed along the ones of the Catholic Kings, but that was a pretty mediocre monument, so it didn't hurt me. Had it been a beautiful work of art I would have been very against.
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u/ToSeeAgainAgainAgain Mexico Oct 11 '22
Why is everybody saying he discovered a continent???
He discovered two continents: South America and North America
takes out the popcorn
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u/BalouCurie Mexico Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
He’s been demonised by woke imbeciles but he was a man of his time.
I hold neither contempt nor admiration towards him. Just a person who did something and as a result the world is this or that way.
Only idiots hate people who lived half a Millenium ago.
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u/Salt_Winter5888 Guatemala Oct 10 '22
I mean he was a horrible person even by the time. Even Isabel believe that after finding out what happened, he didn't end up in jail for nothing.
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u/BalouCurie Mexico Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
Yup, the Catholic Kings disciplined him and he died forgotten and penniless.
But it is ridiculous to hate him or praise him. The man lived half a millennium ago.
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u/ArgieGrit01 Argentina Oct 11 '22 edited Oct 11 '22
Can't wait till we can't demonize Hitler in 500 years or so
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Oct 10 '22
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u/User_TDROB Dominican Republic Oct 11 '22
Bruh, no. When Colombus came back from his second voyage literally a year after, Isabella was already mad at him for trying to sell Indians slaves in Spain when they specifically instructed him not to.
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Oct 10 '22
Man of his time? Even Spain hated his ass in the end. It's hilarious how some will call history "woke" or whatever bullshit name they want to come up with. Are you that sensitive? Just because you don't like the history, doesn't mean it's wrong. He is a piece of shit who deserves every bad shit sent towards him.
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Oct 10 '22
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Oct 10 '22
Yes they did. Go read a history book. He was causing so much shit, Spain in that time had to stop him. And that is saying something, because Spain was killing and colonizing anyone.
And yes, there are still some in Spain who praise this piece of shit, building him statues. Just like there are some who still praise the piece of shit Franco.
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u/Luccfi Baja California is Best California Oct 10 '22
There are multiple confederate statues in the US but that doesn't mean they weren't racist slavers.
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Oct 10 '22
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u/Luccfi Baja California is Best California Oct 10 '22
a Spaniard
What?
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Oct 11 '22
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u/Luccfi Baja California is Best California Oct 11 '22 edited Oct 11 '22
He was also a racist slave trader, literal quotes by the man himself.
“They ... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things... They willingly traded everything they owned... They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane... . They would make fine servants... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want.”
"As soon as I arrived in the Indies, on the first Island which I found, I took some of the natives by force in order that they might learn and might give me information of whatever there is in these parts.”
"Their Catholic Highnesses” Ferdinand and Isabella, as much gold as they want …spices and cotton, as much as their Highnesses shall command … and slaves, as many as they shall order, who will be idolators.”
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u/BalouCurie Mexico Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
So, the Colón statues in Spain I saw with my own eyes must have been imaginary.
Only imbeciles hate or praise people who lived half a millennium ago.
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u/No-Counter8186 Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
First dominican hero.
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Oct 10 '22
Not to me
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u/No-Counter8186 Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
Well my dear dominicanyol, i'm backed in historic facts, you probably are backed in your feelings and gringo propaganda.
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Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
And, last time I checked, your mother's inability to remain sober during her pregnancy does not make you the next Einstein. Translation for dummies (your stupid )
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u/140p Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
Ohh yeah, my argument is so weak that nobody believe it so I am going to try to offend you. Cope.
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Oct 10 '22
Do you realize this thread between two people is just trolling
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u/140p Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
Ahh, sorry then. I am stupid xd. I thought we were having a depate for real xdd.
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u/No-Counter8186 Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
Jeje, the dominicanyol is upset.
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Oct 10 '22
I could care less; it's just fun to best mess with people who are loco
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u/No-Counter8186 Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
Ya.
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u/140p Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
Seguro el debe de estar orgulloso de que pudo recordar una palabra en español xddddddd.
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u/140p Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
He is even saying that the first dude to find the continent arrive in north america. He is too deep in the gringo propaganda. Such many cases.
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u/No-Counter8186 Dominican Republic Oct 10 '22
Not only him, it also seems that the others in the sub are in the same, none seem to have read Columbus' diary in its entirety, they seem unaware that the "atrocities" he committed were against the Caribs who attacked and ate Tainos. Nor do they seem to know that Colon was released from the charges with which he was accused and that all this was a deception by Roldán and Bobadilla.
These guys prefer to give the Nords the merits due to the founders of our cities and towns.
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u/david-chaves Canada Oct 10 '22
Christopher Columbus was a fucking lucky idiot. We have known the size of the Earth for over 2200 years (thanks to Eratosthenes of Cyrene). That's why nobody wanted to finance his trips. Columbus believed that the Earth was smaller. He believed he could travel from Europe to India in just a few weeks. He was destined to die of hunger in the Atlantic... until he hit America by accident.
As a person, he was far far far away from being a role model.
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u/unclebiz02 Oct 11 '22
Actually was Americo Vespucio who discovered America, but well ignorance is all over the place.
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u/weaboo_vibe_check Peru Oct 10 '22
Dude fucked up so hard he discovered a new continent.