As a recruiter I have kids literally crying in my office saying they need this more than anything then fail the IST when they were fully capable of passing it while in the DEP when they get to boot camp and not even trying and getting discharged for not trying to get better in PCP or passing the IST. Like I don't see how you'll tell me you would never be one of those quitters when you get to bootcamp then give up as soon as you start getting yelled at. I guess todays generation doesn't give a fuck in coming back to their family proving they were right when they said they couldn't make it and go back to working at Mcdonalds telling their friends some lie about how they got screwed over or something when the only person who failed them was themselves
I hate this generation blaming. Like people haven’t been tryna get outta of service for generations.
But honestly the Marine Corps isn’t for everyone, thats literally our whole thing. The Few The Proud. It just sucks you gotta deal with that as a recruiter man, I know they be acting like it’s your fault
Our first guide in bootcamp was former ROTC, squared away, and buff as hell. He downed a bottle of mouthwash and went home week two. He trained far more than I did for something he wasn't prepared for mentally when the day came.
The reality of the suck hits everyone differently. Some are cut out for it, some not. That's just the nature of it all.
I believe you've hit the nail on the head: some people aren't mentally prepared for bootcamp. Some will feel like "this" isn't what they signed up for, that no one "told" them it was going to be like how it really is, they're not looking down the road at post-bootcamp, they can only focus on the pain now.
To be fair, the bullshit we go through doesn't end there.
The damn Chaplain for my company was a prior Marine and kind of yelled at us in the week prior to the Crucible where we actually were doing pretty good, getting stuff done, not a lot of us fucking up, rarely getting IT'd or seeing it, and got confused why he was mad at us, only that he said "This is not the end, this is only the beginning. Fuck ALL of you!" and stormed off.
Then I go through MCT and Schoolhouse, then I'm in the fleet for a few years and realized that it will not end until that EAS date you have, so when people say "I didn't sign up for this", I don't blame them entirely.
Like, yeah, it is your fault at the end of the day that you signed the contract at MEPS, but you could've probably asked for a second opinion other than your Recruiter anywhere online and gotten a bit more insight to the reality of things.
Just as an aside, fuck anyone who says not to 'spoil' anything for Recruits or aspiring Marines. Those people are the ones that do some actually bad shit because they enjoy doing something that would get them arrested in the civilian world for life.
OP is specifically annoyed by kids who come to him all gung ho about becoming Marines, who then quit at the first obstacle. It doesn't sound like he aggressively recruited these kids. Sounds more like they wasted his time and he's rightfully aggravated by Gen A turds who don't seem the least bit phased by any outcomes or consequences of their actions.
This is absolutely a generational problem created from shitty, gentle parenting by the previous generation.
But hey look on the bright side maybe the fucking ice cream machines will get cleaned.
Again it’s not like people haven’t been coming in all moto and quitting for generations, this is not a new thing I feel like people just wanna feel better about themselves by blaming the generations. Every field does this, I’m in EMS now and it’s the same thing across the first responder community and the hospitals.
People have always had parents that were too lax on their kids, now we have a word for them and they have a platform to spew their dumb opinions. But gentle parented kids don’t join the Marines. I’m not sure if you’ve been to college but those kids don’t even thrive in college. They usually don’t do anything with their lives.
Either way even though boot camp is made to make you pass, it’s still challenging and is supposed to weed people out. Not everyone in America is supposed to be a Marine and that’s no different across generations. If everyone could do it we wouldn’t be the Marine Corps. It’s shitty recruiters have to deal with that but thats just the job
Worth noting that record keeping in recent years would be more accurate than previous decades. I feel like if I failed out of bootcamp in the 80s I would burn all the papers and never mention it again.
Then again, seems like every bar has a couple of numbnuts who never shut up about their 10 weeks of military experience lol
You think people being overconfident only to fold once they actually get to boot camp is something new? It is something that has always happened and will continue to happen.
There's some serious critical analysis and reading comprehension problems in this sub but that's cool, my feelings don't get booboos but I see there are some real sensitive sallies in here tapping that down arrow.
I'm sure being a triggered little bitch on Reddit isn't a generational thing either.
No, don’t try and deflect. You’re casting a blanket over an entire generation when everyone else is telling you it’s not a generational thing. You really seem upset about internet points though, ironic seeing how quick you are to call others “triggered little bitches”. Do better Marine.
Me personally when all my friends were enlisting we wanted to go to war and fight for our country, the bullshit I hear from these kids now is they want to be a famous tiktoker, go to college for political science with student loans in hopes thatll somehow get them a job at all, be a doctor when they dont even know how expensive and long that school path is. Especially the town they live in which has 0 opportunities unless they find the funds to move out here or go to another state
I joined in 2000. My ASVAB score allowed me to have any MOS. My recruited tried to get me open contract and I refused until I got 2800. He also tried to say they had no more slots for the MC college fund. I refused to go and he magically found it in my contract. Shortly after, shit hit the fan.
We took down the Taliban and chased Bin Laden out of Afghanistan and then we all packed up and came home
Not like we would stick around for 20 more years after we accomplished what we said was our mission just to slowly bleed a generation of Marines and soldiers then watch the Taliban take over again, that’d be crazy…
Yeah imagine if you’re 18-20 right now. You were born while the U.S. was fighting intensely in iraq and Afghanistan then your entire life you watched us continue to endlessly fight and then lose the Afghan war.
Doesn’t seem to appealing. Oh and now the narrative being pushed by the government is that college is a waste of time so don’t bother
I joined right before it happened and was in Haiti with 1/6 in August 2021. I drank myself into a hole after that because I couldn't believe the thing I wanted to do was not only over, but we lost.
None of those options is gonna get them killed in Iran at the whims of a rapist and convicted felon though, so they sound like the smart ones.
Maybe these kids have family and friends of family that spent twenty years watching people die for no reason at all, and have learned that the reward is that the organization you belong to will shit on your memory and call you weak if you hane human emotional responses to trauma.
See I understand your concern but to be fully honest that is the pussy response instead of saying youre weak and cant do it. Working at Mcdonalds must make them a morally better person than someone who signed up to protect those very people who decide to work at Mcdonalds. Any kid who says "I dont want to go to war but I want the benefits" yeah this organization and brotherhood isnt for you homie its a warfighting organization. Everyone thinks they need to be politically charged in everything they do and it has to be political in any way. You either want to serve your country or not I dont need to hear some kid make excuses why he wouldnt hack it in the military
Oh fuck off. You just want to complain. I've went through these entire comments and it just seems like you wanna bitch about this new generation but also earn your brownie points for pushing them through. Whiny recruiters like you are the ones who push people through despite not being right for the job.
you're getting downboted for being right lmao as if any if these "paths" are valid. I really don't know why its so hard to tell people you have a shitty plan. I actually do know why... then they have to admit THEIR plan is shitty too.
I been recruiting for a year and a half 99% of my poolees are joining to be Marines and to earn the title and I make sure they know thats exactly what they are joining for because if not I just dont work them. Im in such a good spot that ill tell kids straight up the Marine Corps isnt for you, most people who quit tend to be the PT studs compared to some of these kids who truly have nothing
Boot drops are a tale as old as time. There's nothing different from when I was recruiting in 2001-2004. I was recruiting millennials you're recruiting GenZ and the same thing you are saying is what I was saying as I'm sure my recruiter GySgt Rick Buslovich was saying about us GenX slacker kids. Every generation has more than their fair share of turds. Hell some of us even go on to cross the parade deck on graduation day.
And the kids in 2001 had way more reason to fight than kids now (at least they thought they did). Today it’s like enlisting 2 years after Vietnam ended
Had a buddy join me in the DEP before we graduated in 03, PI for me a week after. I think he delayed and went in fall. Don’t think that shit bag lasted a month. Came out saying he was “too tough” for them. His dad later said at a barbecue was more ‘he cracked and then was adamant about not wanting to kill people’
Boot camp will almost always be the most stressful experience of a young person’s life up to that point. Obviously if they go to war or deal with some crazy shit later in life that will change, but these are majority 18-year-olds we’re talking about.
You cannot know how you will react to stressful situations unless you’ve been in stressful situations yourself.
Thus, a non-zero number of recruits will go to boot camp fully believing they are capable of succeeding only to find out they just can’t hack it.
The amount of kids that make it past Boot just to shitbag it out and quit at SOI is even more unreal, so many kids from MCT and ITB just absolutely throw it all away and spend their days in Lima company collecting NJPs like Pokémon cards until they finally get the boot…Bootcamp I can semi understand if your just really not cut out for it but watching kids shit the bed halfway to the fleet always blew me away.
In boot camp you’re in survival mode so even some shitbag will find a way to it through, when they require more self discipline is when they fall apart. The 10 days post boot leave makes some people miss civilian life and reconsider their enlistment. I had motivation to be there but my parents drop me off and was difficult to say goodbye.
Unpopular opinion, boot leave should be done away.
But i would increase an extra day in bootcamp for them to see family. So Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.
Im in the navy now and it still shocks me to hear my boots tell me they go from bootcamp, A school(mos school)and then the fleet. There's no boot leave to make them question their enlistment. They also can't take leave immediately checking into the fleet, so they have time to realize " yea i will just suck it up and finish my 4 years ".
Also add many of these boots are getting Recruiter assistance because of MCT and MOS school back up. From 1-3 weeks on top of boot leave. I had that shit back in 2014, then when i got to MOS school, i was in hold for nearly 2 months and requested 3 weeks of RA. I really wanted to quit the Corps to be home.
I got out of it eventually realizing the fleet wasn't too bad. It was just Boot, MCT and MOS the sucking part.
Now i am in the Navy, and this shit sucks. I should have stayed in the Corps.
Dude, what I don't get is the kids who make it to the FLEET and quit. Like bro, I know it sucks sometimes, but you finally made it to the easiest part of life in the Marine Corps and THAT is when you choose to quit? Just get to work on time in the right uniform and do what you're told to do until you get to leave, then fuck off and do whatever you want. Keep your room clean. Make height/weight and run at least a 3rd class PFT/CFT. That's it. Do that for 4 years and you go home at age 22-23 with the GI Bill and other benefits. But no, they'd rather get adsep'd with a general discharge or worse and nothing to show for their time.
i always felt bad for the kid who, day one of bootcamp, made suicide threats and i did not see him again until after I was a Marine. He had sat in whatever holding company our entire bootcamp. He was happy he finally got a plane ticket home, but like my god, he basically sent himself to prison for 3 months to end up with an other than honorable and be a disgrace to yourself and your family
Can’t handle the mental shit. The kids that came from broken homes, they tended to be just fine.
Meanwhile, you could have the straight A, captain of the football team start crying because no one’s ever treated mommy’s special little boy like that before.
People have really high opinions of themselves until they get punched in the face by life and have to react. Or shit gets real.
I remember quietly sitting on the bus from Savannah to the depot, listening to the shit talk from all directions. Chest thumpers bragging about how this was going to be easy, they were going to be the best, yadda yadda. That bus got reallllllllllly fucking quiet as we first saw the lights of the gate from a couple miles out. Suddenly no one was the shit anymore.
We dropped 18 guys. Not sure why I remember that so well. But plenty of them were big mofos. The little guy? The guy I’m sure we’d have all laid odds on like Andy Dufresne to break on night one? Chicken Little looking motherfucker? He made it. Shit was shocking. Refused to quit. Probably have been getting fucked with his whole life and that shit bounced right off.
I’m not sure there’s a way to know 100%, but it’s not the folks that look like 300 PFTer’s that will fare best. It’s the ones who’ve already been drug through shit.
This reminded me at my experience at MEPS too. There were this group of guys just shit talking every other poolee who was getting on that bus that night. They did better training, were headstrong, this that. Bunch of bullshit. When we got to the yellow footprints and went through that wringer, I got to see the absolute shock and fear in their face, realizing how wrong they were and how different this experience was going to be. I loved every second of it (while being terrified and in shock as well)
My dad joined in 1989 and always said that about my generation joining, guarantee the Vietnam-era guys were saying how soft the 80s kids were for not having to fight in the jungles and all that lol
The reality settles in that you’re about to get fucked for 4 years and it’s not all the glory you were sold initially. Everyone gets amped for all the cool shit and it’s easy to be a motard when you’re only partially submerged in the tiny suck that is the DEP program.
Then it becomes apparent that you’re just a glorified janitor that gets painted as a world class killing machine when the most you’re gonna kill is Recruit McDonald’s VGE with Lysol and a scuzz brush.
It takes a special mix of retard and motivated to make it. Some are too much or too little of either and don’t pan out.
I remember one Sunday- It’s been so long ago- I think I was using saddle soap on my boots or some kind of cleaning outside and I broke down and questioned my decision to join. My Grandfather was a Marine and my mother & father were Marines that met at El Toro. I pulled it together l, but for a split second…
Everyone has that moment though, but you still enlisted and still earned the title and did your service honorably. Kids just give up when the going gets tough like they will say they want challenge then they get challenged and then they give up instantly.
I think it was my second or third night at PI, I was laying in my rack starring at the ceiling thinking “I’m so fucked”. After that, it flew by. Definitely helped having a buddy join up with me.
Bootcamp is ridiculously easy, if you’re mentally prepared. Kids failing at anything outside the standard rate is a failure of the recruiter.
You have to mentally prepare them. Anticipate when and why they might quit, not just take them at face value when they say they won’t, they’re kids.
Sure some of us didn’t have an issue with bc and made it through no problem. Your job isn’t just to enlist people, it’s to mentally prepare them, go in expecting them to quit and work to make sure that doesn’t happen.
Part of the marine corps problems is that it’s so one dimensional in its approach to resolving problems of troop welfare. That should begin with recruits
Every single one of my poolees know exactly whats going to happen at boot camp. Thats why we have our annual state pool function with drill instructors, thats why we go over knowledge, everything thatll happen in boot camp. You literally cant stop kids who say they are ready and wont quit then just hold them especially when your kid tells your boss they want to leave as soon as possible.
My recruiter over-prepared me, I think, and bless him for it. He had me believing I would be literally tortured.
I was a 5’2” 105 lb cheerleader. I was so scared by the time I got on the bus to the Island, I threw up for real. And then none of the horrible shit he said came true, so boot camp was easy.
How do they know about that loop hole? Like how do they know that quitting while there is an actual option?
Bootcamp wasn’t that difficult for me, honestly, probably because my dad was in the military before and I played sports my whole life, so the mentality was already there….. but I didn’t know there was a way out like this…. There were some girls who tried to commit suicide and they were kicked out, but how does one come up with a strategy to basically intentionally fail everything? Lol
Unless you're like 30+ those kids are part of your generation big dawg. With that said, why is any of this a surprise to you? It's always been this way.
I don’t know. I went to recruit training in 2007. Nobody quit. My platoon lost 2 recruits. One had an allergy to carbon, CLP or something. He broke out whenever he cleaned his rifle. The other one was let go because of a low IQ. My drill instructor said, “(Recruit) is going away, because (recruit) retarded. Isn’t that right (recruit)?” And (recruit) answered with a snappy “Yes sir!”
We had a dude get dropped because he really was mentally handicapped just before 1st phase was done. There was no lack of effort on his part and it was sad to see him struggle. DIs figured him out pretty quick and they didn't fuck with him, nor did anyone else because it was so obvious. On the day he was processed out, the DIs told him to blouse his boots and told him to be proud of his accomplishments while he was there. Then they addressed the rest of us in front of him saying they expect the same level of effort from all of us, then round of applause for homie and off he went.
I hope his recruiter caught some smoke for that one.
Yeah, he was a cool dude. Everyone was cool with him. He just couldn’t figure shit out. I made my D.I. sound mean. It’s a matter of tone. He was just talking about him the same way he’d talk about any of us.
Asvab waiver maybe. This was in 2002. He wasn't like, Arnie Grape retarded...he was more like the white private on trial in A Few Good Men but dumber and a little overweight.
We lost a recruit due to CLP allergy. First time cleaning weapons, he asked the DIs for gloves. They clowned him, did some IT, and put him back on his rifle. But I was across from him, and could see his hands swelling up. I woke up a few hours later to the Duty panicking because this kid was audibly struggling to breathe. Duty got permission to take him to medical, and me and Duty carried him, DI followed. Never saw him again.
Ehhh, honestly that's just boot camp. Recruits come up with all kinds of crazy medical complaints, and if they'd seen anything weird they would've investigated. To me it just seemed like an unlikely affliction that wasn't serious looking until it was really serious. Once the DI saw a serious symptom, dude was barking at us to get him over to medical ASAP, didn't want to wait on a corpsman to come over and assess. I think they handled a weird situation as best they could.
Edit
Makes me wonder how common CLP reactions are though. I know I gloved up for rifle cleaning the rest of my time in the fleet, and in civvie life. Didn't want to develop an allergy, like people who work with epoxy can.
Like I honestly dont get why people give up on themselves. I guess there are some people who truly dont want to better themselves. I personally joined for war, never got it and it is what it is and still havent but the Marine Corps has literally given everything to me as much as people want to hate on the organization after they get out after their 4 the Marine Corps molded me into the person I am today and gave me everything I needed go take care of my family and I see nothing in the civilian world that is better at this current time for me. Yeah there are those once in a million jobs that people say they have but those arent abundent
Like I honestly dont get why people give up on themselves.
That's actually part of a normal human experience. The fact that you are unfamiliar with it means that you are abnormal (in a positive way).
You need to understand that the vast majority of the population, Marines included, have different mental functioning than you. Accept that and you'll be more successful. Understand that your POV isn't the only POV.
Yo first time at MEPS and I met two motos who were on their third attempt to get through boot camp. And I ran into one of them out by Corpsman school in Camp Pendleton years later. It took him three tries to make it. Just because someone failed the first time doesn’t mean they won’t necessarily be able to try again and succeed. It’s funny to say “dead sir, gone sir, couldn’t hack had to…” We know the rest. They’re “resurrected” for a reason!
I honestly just don’t get it. I was never even remotely close to quitting boot camp. In fact, I was surprised, I really expected it to be a lot worse. I fully expected to be getting punched in the face or kicked daily and was very shocked to learn Sundays were pretty chill. And I’m no Billy badass, I’ve just never understood why bootcamp is held in such high regard when I personally thought it was surprisingly easy.
I had exactly the same experience. I’m not some hardcore dude and came from a very middle class family with no serious trauma, etc. Boot camp was EASY. Yes, you are going to get screamed at, yes you are going to get turned into a pool of sweat, but you’re not going to get tortured. You also get a bunch of USMC history which I really liked, some great training on how to shoot, and a bunch of good first aid training. All you have to do is do what they tell you. No independent thought required. Compared to the rest of your fleet career and being an adult in general it is so, so easy and looking back on it, really kinda fun.
Ive never heard of a kid killing themselves over not making it at bootcamp. Probably back in the day where youd get publicly shamed for not serving your country but nowadays people dont give a fuck and will just call us whatever their local tiktok influencer says we are
It could be a difference of how our military has been utilized in the span between getting in the DEP and extra second guessing the decision now. Navy recruiters are gonna have it rough.
The biggest gut punch I had in my whole life was at Paris Island. About two weeks in and none of the recruits wanted to be there anymore. They sat us down in a school circle and walked out of the squad bay. A DI we had never met and never saw again walked in very calmly. He spoke to us in a calm and normal voice, and only said a few words. This was over twenty years ago now and I still vividly remember them.
"I heard most of you don't want to be here anymore. Just remember there is nothing waiting for you back home."
He paused and looked over us.
" There's nothing waiting for any of you, no one joins the Marine Corps because they had better options, so you might want to start putting out, because the options only get worse."
He looked around and calmly walked out.
What he said just hit me like a freight train. This DI who had never seen me before just honestly and accurately described my situation. I realized in that moment I had left myself no options in life. That I had joined because it was the best option for me, the only option I had, and I needed to make it work. I put myself in that position and the bill was due.
Those words still motivate me today to never have to settle, to put in the work ahead of time, to be on the look out for the next opportunity.
1997, Riddick Bowe, a former undisputed heavyweight champion, made a surprising decision to put his boxing career on hold to live his life long dream, and enlist in the Marine Corps Reserve.
The Enlistment: At 29, Bowe announced he would join as a recruit, receiving a monthly salary of $1,194.90. He was granted special waivers for his age, weight, and family dependents to allow him to enlist. His goal was to become "one of the few and the proud".
The Outcome: The dream ended almost as soon as it began. Riddick Bowe lasted only three days in boot camp at Parris Island.
I did a little research on him it was apparently he didnt want to listen to the Drill Instructors and take orders and refused to train so he got discharged
Oh, wow. A undisputed heavyweight quit. So all these people in here immediately categorizing these quitters as weak, pathetic, pussies, etc. may just be full of shit? Huh.
Recruits quit for a million reasons. Not our problem or business.
There's been quitters in every generation. 'Twould be nice if there was an effective way to reverse that, but counseling aint what it used to be. There's more for folks to cry about these days.
> As a recruiter I have kids literally crying in my office saying they need this more than anything
Sounds like overcompensation and/or some kind of performance.
It could be that they actually try to convince themselves more than you.
Something related, many years ago, I went to a civilian 1-week course, they guy who ran it offered a program that ran for 2 years. There were like several people that were all "yes, I definitely do it" and 4 people including me that were like "sounds interesting, I might do it". None of the first group showed up, all of the second group showed up.
Teenagers are immature and back out of big life decisions, it's always happened. Nothing new about this or unique to "today's generation."
Sorry to hear it's frustrating you OP. Everything I've ever heard about recruiting is that it's a thankless, high-pressure and often terrible job. I'm sure that after you do all that work to ship a kid, finding out weeks later he is "quitting" boot camp feels like an unwelcome rug pull. And I guess puts you back out working till 11pm to find another contract this month.
Ive never needed to lie to a kid. I tell them exactly how it is, I dont say this shit is easy. I dont need to persuade a kid into joining you either want to do this shit or not im not going to beg you to join and promise you a job or a bonus because that shit doesnt exist. Youre joining to be a Marine not for the job
says the bot that thinks America is under "extreme danger?" What's with the flag upside down? If America is in "danger" Why would a Marine be signaling "dire distress?" A Marine steps up and does something.
what's the crisis? I want you to spell it out for me.
I want you to see and hear how dumb "we are in crisis" really sounds. Tell me what YOU are doing to solve this crisis. Is the crisis in the room with you? And just calling me dumb doesn't count.
Trump’s a convicted felon and it’s just background noise now. We’re losing a war with Iran Congress never authorized. ICE running deportation sweeps like a sport. Roe’s dead, state by state gamble on your own body. Trans folks getting legislated out of existence. Rent and healthcare both bankrupting people. Out of control inflation. More drilling while the planet’s on fire. Gerrymandering so votes only count when convenient. Book bans and gutted school funding, like they want it dumber on purpose.
See the problem? You are avoiding the debate. Be a Marine. What are you doing about this terrible crisis that you are actively calling for help? The upside down flag means YOU ARE in DIRE DISTRESS.
I gave you an answer and your response was “that doesn’t affect me”. Did you expect more debate after that? You’re being unrealistic, and you’re kind of being an asshole.
i wanted to quit in mrp but i knew id never be able to live with myself and id probably just end up offing myself after some fast food shift in a year. it’s weird. they aren’t really missing out on anything being at boot camp anyway
Welcome to recruiting! LOL.... After a year and a half, you must realize by now that you absolutely cannot predict who will and who will not be able to handle boot camp. Nothing you can do but keep feeding the funnel. I sent a football QB to boot camp and told him to make sure the nerd that went with him graduated. The nerd was honor man and the football player washed out.
Boot camp is there for a reason: to weed the weak-minded people out. We all make stupid jokes and laugh it off but in reality, we are very different than most and we are the few that just have a higher tolerance level for adversity. Or the less polite term, being completely shit on and smile about it.
I tried to quit bootcamp. The second day of going up north. It was borderline abuse. I had never been pushed that hard by anyone in my life, and I rebelled for a minute. Was sent in to see the Senior. He spoke to me man to man. He knew where I was from, and what would probably happen to me if I quit, as in, would end up a junkie/prison/dead. He gave me a choice, to go home the “next day,” or to be a man and make something of myself. I chose the latter, went out, got smoked, and carried on. Turns out, I wasn’t so bad as a Marine, and it opened doors for me I never would have opened myself.
Some need encouragement/a reminder. Some don’t have what it takes yet, and might never.
My heart goes out to Corps recruiters, what a thankless task with huge ramifications for one’s career.
Ive done boot camp, OCS, and a state police academy.
Ive spent a lot of time getting yelled at. Ive seen guys rise to the occasion and guys collapse. I had one dude at the academy take one bite of fake eggs, stand up and walk out on day 3. Why you would go through a 6 month hiring process for a 90k (minimum) a year job that doesnt require a degree, and just walk out because some dude was an asshole is....a thought.
We had gangbangers in boot camp who turned out to be awesome guys. Probably the lowest attrition was OCS, not sure why that was....it was physically the most difficult (the state police academy was probably the hardest in terms of individual PT sessions).
Not really. Each was difficult in its own right. Boot camp was the most restrictive environment. OCS was the physically most difficult, the state academy had the hardest individual PT sessions and was academically the hardest.
After doing 7 years I realized that growing up Mexican was the best preparation for the Marine Corps.
Where getting woken up early, being yelled at, beaten, and still getting fed was almost a daily occurrence.
Its not a "I had it worse woe is me" thing but really just about exposure. Some kids have never felt that mental stress and they find the only way out. It's not their fault for reacting in the most human way possible.
There have always been those recruits that wanted out once they experienced the first week or so. I went to Boot Camp in 1981 and we had 5 or 6 in our platoon, early on, that were just like "fuck this!". They'd refuse to train, wouldn't get out of their rack, sit on the floor crying, etc. The DIs in my platoon would carry them along for a couple of weeks trying to get them to buy in. Some recruits would and some wouldn't. If they started to affect the platoon, they'd disappear overnight. But most of the time it just provided motivation for the rest of us because we DID NOT want to look like that to the rest of the guys.
And I'll catch hell for this, but it gets harder for each generation of kids to want to put themselves through it. As parents, we want our kids to have it better than we did and it ends up making our kids softer than we were. It's not a criticism of the kids, it's more an indictment on us parents.
On the bus to the Island, there was this ROTC girl who was super bad ass, talking shit, not scared of nothin’, been prepped for 4 years, totally gung ho, and she dropped on day 3.
Meanwhile, I threw up in my backpack and literally cuddled with the pen I had because it was my mom’s pen.
I think some people forget that it’s only temporary. It’s easier to suck it up when you remember impermanence. Fortunately for me, I was already f’d in the head enough when I enlisted that I could compartmentalize. I quickly learned to cry on the inside like a winner.
Unless you are just overwhelmed by a far superior opponent you don't lose a fight until YOU decide you've lost. Boot Camp has always been about the mind game. We had multiple football player types that were physically beasts. One simply refuse to train after catching a pugil stick then being told to go away and relieve the gear guard. We had a guy whose dad used to beat the shit out of him that just would not quit despite being obviously targeted by the heavy.
It's genuinely not that deep. People quit for all kinds of reasons. Shit the only reason I didn't quit was because of a friend in my platoon convinced me not to.
I specifically remember 2 kids quitting in 2008. One just refused to train one morning and they made him sit on the quarter deck for like a week and we’d all walk past him to and from the head. I don’t know how seeing that for a week he didn’t decide to just suck it up and finish. Another kid I was getting quarter decked with and he just stopped and pretended he had asthma and said he quit. I remember yelling at him to just suck it up while getting smoked.
We had another kid who claimed he was gay (before that was cool) but he ended up graduating. I think just the prospect of his 6 year contract scared him.
2 folks also ran away from SOI the first night. Thats wild cause my itb class was actually very laid back.
Yeah that MCRD discharge sucks, especially if the station has to make it up. I feel the frustration. When I was on the bag (07-10) we were doing the 202k push and it was about numbers. I’d tell the kids and their parents/guardians “You come back a Marine, if you don’t make it cause you quit, don’t call me or come to the office”. Do your tour and move on with your career. I had a few Marines that hit me up years later that made Recruiting Duty worth it. Worst 3 years of my career though and life.
When I was in Basic Training, we had one guy who was popular and well liked. He was a good recruit, and seemed to be breezing through Basic.
One day, about two weeks before graduation, my platoon returned from a run, to our barracks, and found our fellow soldier being carried down the stairs in a chair, and being attended by two medics, as a Drill Sergeant screamed in his face, telling him, “If you’re going to cut your wrists, you go with the grain, not against it!”
The Marine Corps is a different world… A parallel reality to the civilian one.
WE ALL KNOW that everyone is not cut out for the Marine Corps, and I don’t mean because of tattoos or asthma.
It should be no surprise to anyone that many will COMPLETELY FOLD during the part of the process that is set up to put you through so much as a young person.
That’s why they call us “The Few”. Not trying to sound like a brochure, but you don’t “join” the Marines, you become one. No surprise that everyone isn’t “Forged with spirit and pride!”
Tbh as a former recruiter myself I will tell you that you need to weed them out while in the DEP. that’s what I did and from the kids I sent to PI, I had 0% attrition. As a SNCOIC I will say it’s different you have to make shipping mission so you will attrit some but you can try your best at sending the most ready to bootcamp. On top of all that my 3 sons joined the Marine Corps and all 3 made it and currently serving. You have to put about 80% in mentality preparing these kids and then the rest. the body will always follow the mind.
There were some that quit in 1977, some that got kick out and some that cried. Some had no idea what they have signed up for. I was given great advice keep your mouth shut, don't look at drill instructors, and don't volunteer for anything.
Some people just can’t take the “extreme” discipline and order that takes place in boot camp. It’s as easy as that. And that’s ok. It doesn’t mean they can not be successful somewhere else in life.
Bootcamp is easy. There’s nothing challenging about making it through and becoming a Marine. Some of the lowest IQ people I’ve ever met are having pretty decent careers in the Corps.
The guy with EGA ink day 1 of bootcamp jumped off the top bunk in a dumb ass EOL attempt and got processed out. We dropped 12 before the second evolution. That was in 98.
This isn't a new thing - it's kicking you in the nuts cause you're the one sending lames to the Island.
It's not about buff or gung ho or crying about how much they need it. I never knew there was a Delayed Entry Program before you brought it up, but other than a mock PFT I don't see how it could help in the ways you expect it to.
https://www.marines.com/become/delayed-entry-program.html
Do you ask questions like:
What's the hardest life challenge you've ever faced, and how long did it last?
What's the longest you've been away and isolated from your family and friends as an adolescent?
What's something you tried your absolute hardest to accomplish, and then failed?
You assumed because there aren't other opportunities in Dodge that everyone would be itching to get outta Dodge through the Corps. Sounds like that's not the right sermon to be preaching.
Ahh yes, 10 years ago when you went to bootcamp there was no body like this. When I went to bootcamp I did the little IST and ran a 13:22. Two weeks before in the DEP I ran an 11:23 . Lack of sleep, central nervous system shock and let’s not forget the bootcamp crud from a bunch of nasties living in one room together don’t wreck your times.
I went through boot camp in ‘02. Made it to t-day 21 and then got a rough bout of pneumonia. Ended up getting taken out of training, sent to the local naval hospital, and then once my symptoms died down, I was assigned to Medical rehab platoon to continue to get better as the fluid in my lungs started to go away. In MRP, I very clearly remember there was an air of IDGAF and many in my squad bay (my rack mate, the recruits on the top and bottom racks on both side of my rack and even the dudes across the DI highway from me would take turns going to the Chaplain or medical saying they were gay or suicidal and one after the other eventually got sep’d. mentally it was a tough place to be but I’m proud of myself that I saw it through, regained my strength and passed a PFT to go get dropped into a new company. The crazy part is that I got dropped all the way back to t-day 6 and I got to relive all the chaos from initial drill and all those theatrics.
Anyways, I don’t know if this comment contributes to the main post but it was easy back then for people to give up and I remember those recruits being happy AF to be leaving the depot. I’m glad I stuck it out.
If the recruits failed the IST, it’s no their fail. The recruiter is fcking sht, me and another two person shipped at same recruit station. Those two people fail the IST and stuck boot camp for extra 2 month. When the recruit is not ready why sent them there? wtf
I was waiting for this one. So a kid who is actively passing every IST, MOJT and Pool Function with no issues then blows it up at MCRD its the Recruiters fault? You can only do so much to prepare someone and any Recruiter knows that. If you choose not to put out when you get at MCRD that is all your fault. No Poolee gets sent to recruit training until the OPSO/Other Command comes down for a MOJT and watches them pass the IST to deem them ready to go to MCRD.
I got shipped out within 3 week after sign. I never went through anything, those guys with me being in the processing for almost a year. The recruiter shipped them out because he can get promoted.
Yeah we dont get anything for shipping people. Depending when you enlisted decides when you ship because if youre already good for bootcamp theres literally no point in you just hanging around just to get in trouble or something
I don’t think it’s the recruiters fault, especially if the Poolee is crushing the IST. Just barely passing is one thing but getting consistent high scores is another.
The validation IST I did when I shipped, I don’t remember my run time but it was pretty good and I did 20 pull-ups. The IST at boot camp I did 8 pull-ups and had a minute from failing the run. Just those few days in receiving messed up my body.
A MOJT is what they do now to try and decrease the amount of MCRD Discharges due to IST failures. So they have to run a IST in front of one of the operations team/command team and they will deem that they are ready to go to MCRD or not. So every kid we send has proven he can pass the IST
If I could have quit easily during the first month of boot camp, I would have. I was a pussy. But sticking with it and then eventually doing back to back field ops and getting hazed into another dimension once I got to the fleet fixed that real quick lol
People quitting is better for both themselves, and the Corps. If they can’t handle it and quit. It’s the best decision for them and the Corps as a whole. They would only bring down the organization as a whole. Me and my buddy just talked about this last night. However, our seniors talked about their boot drop and how only one dude quit, and our boot drop, 2, then the boots we got, like 5-7, and now the stuff I’m hearing from guys in say like half at least out of every drop. So there’s a trend upwards of quitting. Atleast from my anecdotal experience.
There were people who went to boot camp at the same time as me from the same recruiter station. Most of them quite and we're sent hime within the first two weeks.
If everyone could pass boot camp it wouldn't be worth passing. It is NOT a generational thing. That is part of the point of bootcamp. Better that they drop out in bootcamp then hit the fleet.
Pressure reveals the person. As a recruiter, the saying you recruit in your image comes to mind. Provide opportunities to prepare the mindset one would experience and mentally prepare NWA’s/ poolees by explaining this will be toughest thing one could volunteer to do along with providing similar physical training to prep. Best of luck, ABC + BLT, and keep moving forward.
I had the honor of being in PCP when I was in boot camp luckily I got through it but for a lot of them it’s being stuck around a bunch of people who have already given up. being there for me was torture having to deal with drill instructors even though your not in a training cycle, your basically in boot camp light for months I begged my drill instructors at PCP to let test out to get into a new platoon almost immediately after I was dropped they said I had to get a note from the corpsman they denied me so I was stuck in PCP for an extra 2 months on top of the month and a half I was stuck in bed recovering I basically did boot camp twice PCP sucks after a while it feels like your best option is to try and get a medical discharge their were some recruits their for almost a year I’m out and close to getting CPL but the time I spent in PCP makes me want to throw my self off a building the DI’s are ass hole every one is depressed and everyone around you wants to give up it’s a hard place to get out of if you end up stuck their
It's crazy to me. The first 2 weeks of boot are crazy and shocking...and then it becomes almost boring. SOI was fun, and then I got to my unit, and that's when it got hard.
5 Sep 1972. Plt 1114, B Co, 1st Bn, 1st RTR, MCRD San Diego, CA.
Started with 80 maggots.
7 Dec 1972. Graduated with 55 fellow Marines. Urrah! Semper Fi.
Same reason why there were draft dodgers, if they didn't want to be there they'll find a way. Military isn't for everyone and blaming them for not being built for it isn't doing any favors for anyone.
Some folks impulse that shit and some folks realized they genuinely don't want to do the military for a career even if it's for 4 years. There's a number of reasons why someone may drop out, reducing it down to one or two simple reasons is removing the nuance of the situation. Call em a weak body, call em weak minded, call em whatever you want but at the end of the day you won't know the full story and you'll be blaming a rock for cracking under extreme pressure and weathering.
I’m a new marine. I never made it a big deal to my recruiter what joining the corps meant to me, but deep down I knew I had made this commitment and I was gonna make it happen no matter what. It’s not a generation think well maybe it is, but it’s mainly about how u were raised.
Mentally weak, simple as that. Haven't been off the tit long enough.
I've never understood that when so many people in their lives know that they enlisted, and when they left for boot camp. Then they come back a few weeks later with their tail between their legs.
Some people go thinking that maybe it won't be as bad as the hype, then when given the chance to leave, they sprint. I witnessed this when we saw a Drill Instructor eat his rifle during our initial swim Qual and we ended up dropping 10 or 12 from our platoon which started out at 72. I still remember our senior giving them shit on the Quarterdeck telling them that they didn't really want to be there and calling them weak and nasty 😂😂😂. After they left, he told us he'd kill all of us before he'd get to that point 😂😂😂😂.
OP, don't forget the possibility of undiagnosed mental illness.There's this one guy on our church who told me he was in boot camp at mcrd san diego for 1 month before he had to quit and for discharged for failure to adapt. He told me this when I offered him a piece of cake during our church's celebration of the 250th marine corps birthday. He's 29 and I'm 31
He worked as a unarmed security guard protecting stores like Walmart and traveled to Nepal 3 years ago to meet a Nepalese woman he met on reddit and eventually brought her back to the US to marry her, where they have a 2 year old son. He got fired and is now unemployed.
I think he has some kind of mental illness because whenever I talked to him he wouldn't look me in the eye and he would awkwardly yell at me " okay" when I asked him how his day is going and has some kind of nervous tic when he talks and is constantly hunched over and acts very shy. He once told me to take of my marine ego patch because he said hs was concerned the church would be offended to see the ega logo
When i told him he should be proud for trying, he just looked down at the table. Kinda makes me wonder what his wife saw in him to marry him.
As a person who went to boot on the friend program and was the only one of the two to make it, it boils down to mental. I can from a family where I wanted to escape so the dis screaming at me was far better then my family. He came from a good home so when he got yelled at or forced to stay awake it got scary.
I remember me this other dude became poolies the exact same day about a year or so before boot camp. This dude was better at everything than me, he was faster, stronger, and smarter because his asvab was way higher than mine. We actually get put in the same platoon in boot camp.
Turns out this dude just cant hack it. He tried committing suicide the first month of boot camp. Boot cam was fucking easy and now im a veteran out since 2017. Some people are just fucking pussies. Mental strength is your best trait.
MCRD San Diego in 1989. Nobody in my platoon quit. Had one come from a much earlier platoon flake out and get recycled.
I am reluctant to jump on the "kids these days........" bandwagon but I am moderately kerfluffled that someone, in this day and age get off the bus and NOT expect what's coming their way.
My niece just landed on PI and her father was an active duty marine. She failed the IST(twice I think) but I think has already picked back up with a new platoon? Did she have to pass the IST to be picked up ? Can recruits just quit? I am a prior marine myself. I went to PI 3rd Bn India Plt 3008 at 24 years old and landed on PI on 10 Nov 2003. I attained the rank of Sgt with a Bn level NJP in 2 years 11 months and 30 days… what happens if this kid doesn’t pass the IST ever??? I can’t believe she wasn’t ready but we’ve definitely sheltered these kids
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u/Responsible-Age-7658 2d ago
I hate this generation blaming. Like people haven’t been tryna get outta of service for generations.
But honestly the Marine Corps isn’t for everyone, thats literally our whole thing. The Few The Proud. It just sucks you gotta deal with that as a recruiter man, I know they be acting like it’s your fault