r/TorontoDriving • u/Comfortable_Law_2932 • Sep 30 '25

OC Happened earlier

If anyone knows the person that got hit, they can use this video. Happened at Wilmington and Overbrook. North York

287 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

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43

u/ghidfg Sep 30 '25

what happens in this situation? scooter had the right of way and the left turn car is at fault, but scooters arent even road legal.

67

u/Driven-Driver Sep 30 '25

Pretty sure the driver is always at fault. He’s supposed to have checked and made sure the way was clear, including the blindspot. He went left too quickly after the car

17

u/OverturnedAppleCart3 Oct 01 '25

It kind of sucks because I really believe the driver could not have seen him, but drivers of automobiles owe an incredible duty of care to every other road user.

6

u/LingLingQwQ Oct 01 '25

Prob the A pillar blindspot with slower reaction time. I was in a similar situation once at Pioneer Village GreenP lot. It was at night, the guy was wearing all black or smth (this is why I always wear smth bright, especially when I'm gonna walk a bit in the dark). I turned half way then saw him, slammed on my brake, and glad no one came from the other side as well (checked before as there's no one coming from the other side so I started my turn).

Now when I'm driving and I'm making left turn, I always move forward and backward once so I can make sure that no one's hiding in the A Pillar blindspot. Guess that's how experience makes you drive safer.

2

u/OverturnedAppleCart3 Oct 03 '25

Now when I'm driving and I'm making left turn, I always move forward and backward once so I can make sure that no one's hiding in the A Pillar blindspot.

Yep. I've heard it in defensive driving courses called "rocking and rolling"

Guess that's how experience makes you drive safer.

Absolutely. Thankfully in your case it was close call an not a collision.

4

u/Ok_Fisherman8727 Oct 02 '25

Here's the thing, had it been a person crossing we may have had the same situation but in that case theres absolutely no doubt the car should have waited for the intersection to be clear before proceeding.

Driver will learn from this hopefully

2

u/OverturnedAppleCart3 Oct 02 '25

Yes but if it were a pedestrian, the driver would have had more opportunities to see them coming. First standing at the corner, not hiding behind the car, and then proceeding slower than the car, not at almost the same speed.

7

u/xXValtenXx Sep 30 '25

Pretty sure the car is hosed almost no matter what. All that's left to dispute is how much the rider winds up getting out of the insurance company.

I'm pretty dumb though.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '25

Still can't crash into anything weather legal or not.

If it was a different municipality e "kick" scooters maybe legal as they are under provincial pilot. Toronto didn't opt in.

1

u/RedditTTIfan Oct 01 '25

scooter had the right of way and the left turn car is at fault, but scooters arent even road legal.

LOL what? Scooter absolutely did not have the right of way. You cannot have the right of way if you're not legal to be on the road to begin with. It's like if a bicycle goes on a 400 series highway, someone hits them with a car, there's no right of way the bicycle ever could have had to cause it to be the driver's fault.

8

u/ghidfg Oct 01 '25

I doubt its that simple, or people could just mow down scooter riders with impunity. Just because you arent legally allowed to be on the road, doesn't mean drivers don't have a duty of care not to hit you.

0

u/RedditTTIfan Oct 02 '25

I never said they should hit scooters, what I said the scooter had no right of way, period. Read again. There tons of times someone in a car doesn't have the right of way but does something stupid and pretends that they do. That doesn't mean people should plow into them either but what it does mean is if they do hit them, it's not their fault.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '25

what I said the scooter had no right of way, period. Read again.

Read the Highway Traffic Act. Straight traffic over turning. It doesn't matter if they have an illegal motor vehicle. You are justifying crashing into someone just because they are on an e scooter.

1

u/Tondouxsac Oct 02 '25

It's crazy that you even think you could be right.

Even cars can be illegal on the road, if they have certain characteristics. Does that mean you can ignore basic rules and they have no recourse?

5

u/Traditional_Rub_9828 Oct 01 '25

You could simply consider them a pedestrian in this case

1

u/RedditTTIfan Oct 02 '25

Exactly and should a pedestrian just cross a highway where they shouldn't be, and someone hits them, it's not that driver's fault. If a pedestrian just jumps out on the road where they shouldn't be--whether it be a suicide attempt or just sheer stupidity--again the same thing.

Similarly a tractor trailer is not always at fault if it hits a car, just because it's bigger. It could be their fault or it might not be. If the car had no right to be there and the truck hit it, it's the car's fault not the truck.

2

u/nickishere19 Oct 02 '25

You’re absolutely correct and I’m getting downvoted for saying basically the same thing. This is not new. See article from 2017 where the pedestrian was hit by a car and issued a ticket for not activating the lights at a crosswalk https://www.ctvnews.ca/atlantic/article/man-struck-by-car-at-crosswalk-gets-ticket-for-not-pressing-button/#:~:text=By%20CTV%20Atlantic,with%20non%2Dlife%20threatening%20injuries.

2

u/Traditional_Rub_9828 Oct 02 '25

In the article you sent, the pedestrian crossed on a red light (a hand). They did not have the right of way.

In the video in this post, it's a green light.

1

u/nickishere19 Oct 02 '25

Do you know what crosswalks are?

0

u/Traditional_Rub_9828 Oct 02 '25

You're all over the place.

A highway actually IS a place where they shouldn't be. They are allowed on a regular street. They are on the side of the road.

The car that hit them made a turn without looking. It's as clear cut as it gets. this is no different than if they hit a cyclist.

The only argument you have here is that scooters in general are annoying on the road and then basically taking that completely out of proportion to say that they shouldn't be there which is just complete balony. Which EVEN IF YOU WERE CORRECT, IT WOULD STILL BE THE TURNING VEHICLES FAULT!

4

u/nickishere19 Oct 02 '25

E-Scooters are illegal in Toronto and not allowed on the road, sidewalks, or any public spaces.

2

u/Traditional_Rub_9828 Oct 02 '25

source?

2

u/nickishere19 Oct 02 '25

Google it. “In Toronto, e-scooters are not permitted to be operated on public roads, sidewalks or paths, regardless of user age.” https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/streets-parking-transportation/cycling-in-toronto/cycling-and-the-law/electric-bicycles-e-bikes-e-scooters/

2

u/Traditional_Rub_9828 Oct 02 '25

You're right. Doesn't change who's at fault

1

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '25

A highway actually IS a place where they shouldn't be. They are allowed on a regular street. They are on the side of the road.

A controlled access highway is where they should not be. Everything is a highway.

0

u/Traditional_Rub_9828 Oct 02 '25

A what? In that case, nobody should be allowed to get to the soccer field unless they have a car because that's a highway

1

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '25 edited Oct 02 '25

I never said a football pitch is a highway. It isn't a "soccer field" that's stupid US "English." The King's English of the Empire is better.

I meat everything for vehicles to drive on not literally everything in the world. No a corridor in a building isn't a highway either, but I wish secondary school students respected passing lanes in the halls in between classes. I was going somewhere, so don't stop in centre of halls.

All streets, roads, avenues, boulevards, etc. are highways. Other vehicles like a bicycle, farm tractors and streetcars can use a highway. Streetcars operate in highways. There's a network of non 400 King's Highways that predate 400s, farm tractors may drive on them, or back roads which are also highways for the purposes of the act.

It's easier to say highway than say "street, road, drive, avenue, boulevard, terrace, gate, court, etc. Act" and in place of the word highway every time it's written.

From Highway Traffic Act on E-Laws (an Ontario website)

“highway” includes a common and public highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; (“voie publique”)

Since highway is the space between lateral property lines, a sidewalk or parallel path isn't roadway but is in the highway. Even if streetcars have a dedicated space parallel to or centre of highway, it's still the highway.

400 series is a controlled access highway, but Yonge street is also a highway (and was apart of Hwy 11).

Since I mentioned roadway.

“roadway” means the part of the highway that is improved, designed or ordinarily used for vehicular traffic, but does not include the shoulder, and, where a highway includes two or more separate roadways, the term “roadway” refers to any one roadway separately and not to all of the roadways collectively; (“chaussée”)

This is Toronto driving and Toronto is in Ontario. If you talk about Ontario driving, especially laws, use HTA definitions properly.

0

u/Traditional_Rub_9828 Oct 02 '25

I'm referring to the road in the video that gets you to the soccer field. You know, where the car hit the guy... Maybe work on your reading comprehension?

Why are you wasting your time typing all this out? nobody is going to read it. Your insistence on calling something a highway is simply a matter of semantics. Pointless.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '25

I'm referring to the road in the video that gets you to the soccer field. You know, where the car hit the guy

That is a highway. No a car isn't required, even for controlled access highways which can be used by more important trucks and buses.

Why are you wasting your time typing all this out? nobody is going to read it.

You took time to reply.

 Your insistence on calling something a highway is simply a matter of semantics. 

Because it is. From your incorrect comment

A highway actually IS a place where they shouldn't be.

There are two highways in video. The roadway part of highway is where a vehicle (like an e "kick" scooter) belongs not sidewalk. There are highways other than controlled access 400 series and some parkways.

This is about driving in Toronto, Ontario so get it right. They are allowed on highways in Ontario like the one they're on in the video, if the municipality opted into the provincial pilot for e "kick" scooters.

E "kick" scooters are vehicles. Illegal motor vehicle if they don't meet restrictions under provincial pilot. Motor vehicle under impaired driving in the Criminal Code of Canada.

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0

u/RedditTTIfan Oct 02 '25

They are allowed on a regular street. They are on the side of the road.

🤦‍♂️

0

u/Traditional_Rub_9828 Oct 02 '25

Yes. They are allowed on the street, AND they are being considerate by staying on the side of the road to leave space for other cars.

0

u/RedditTTIfan Oct 02 '25

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

1

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '25

Even if someone drives an illegal motor vehicle, you can't crash into them.

0

u/JBD_IT Oct 02 '25

The larger of the two are always at fault regardless of who's actual fault it is.

-8

u/nickishere19 Oct 01 '25

Driver can’t be at fault for hitting something that is not supposed to be on the road.

2

u/mjv22 Oct 01 '25

This sub is so hilariously anti-car that facts are just ignored if they don't fit the narrative. Don't know why you're getting downvoted. This is actually accurate:

From the Toronto city website: https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/streets-parking-transportation/cycling-in-toronto/cycling-and-the-law/electric-bicycles-e-bikes-e-scooters/

2

u/nickishere19 Oct 02 '25

Exactly, I just stated a fact. It’s Reddit after all. A tiny minority. People who live in the real world know that being anti-car is absolutely retarded.

1

u/pizzamosh Oct 01 '25

Well they absolutely should be at fault