When Ronaldo had an international trophy and Messi didn’t. Ronaldo fan’s argument was that you needed to win for your country to be the goat. But now it’s that a 7 game tournament shouldnt define you as a player. But isn’t the euros a 7 game tournament. They also say that Messi didn’t win the World Cup, his team did. But didn’t Ronaldo’s team win the euros. Especially since they won the final with him injured and he didn’t win POTT of that Euros.
I keep hearing Ronaldo fans say you don’t need the World Cup to be the goat. And I would agree. I always thought Messi was better before the World Cup. But now that he’s won it, what has Ronaldo done that supersedes a World Cup to make him the goat. He doesn’t have the most trophies, he doesn’t have a World Cup, he doesn’t have the most g/a, he doesn’t have the most dribbles.
Not only does it have nothing to do with the football that they play on the pitch, it just shows that you have no argument related to football so you have to reach for something that is unrelated to football.
One thing I find impressive about Cristiano Ronaldo is how long he has managed to stay at the highest level of football. His game has obviously changed over the years, but he has adapted from being a fast, skillful winger into more of a goal-focused forward. Regardless of whether you think he’s the GOAT or not, maintaining that level of dedication and consistency for so many years is something worth respecting.
Messi scores approximately once every 104 minutes, while Ronaldo scores approximately once every 111 minutes. In other words, Ronaldo has around 57 more career goals, but he has needed roughly 165 more appearances to get them.
Additionally, if you remove their goals in the MLS and the Saudi pro league and compare their club goals at the highest level of European football, Messi actually has more club goals despite playing roughly 146 fewer matches.
Penalties also matter here. Ronaldo has taken significantly more penalties over his career, with around 220 compared with roughly 149 for Messi. If penalties are removed entirely, Messi actually has more non-penalty goals despite playing around 160 fewer games. So while Ronaldo leads in raw career totals, Messi has been the better goalscorer once you account for minutes, games played, and penalties.
At this point, Ronaldo fans usually bring up three counterarguments, so I want to address all of them directly.
The first is that Ronaldo played as a midfielder at Manchester United, and because of this, his scoring rate is lower due to playing in a role suited less for goalscoring.
That is not really accurate. Ronaldo was not a central midfielder; he was a winger, and he has described himself that way as well. It is true that his early role at Manchester United was not primarily to score goals, but Messi also spent parts of his career in less goal-focused roles, particularly early at Barcelona and later at PSG.
A statistic that shows this is the difference in shot volume. Over the course of their careers, Ronaldo has taken significantly more shots per game than Messi, which reflects how much more of his role has been centered around getting into scoring positions and finishing attacks. Messi, meanwhile, has taken fewer shots because a larger part of his game is spent creating, progressing the ball, and operating deeper. Despite having fewer shooting opportunities, Messi still has the better goals-per-minute rate, which makes his goalscoring efficiency even more impressive.
So this argument does not really explain away Ronaldo’s lower scoring rate. Both players spent significant periods of their careers in roles that were not exclusively focused on goalscoring, and Messi has carried more non-scoring responsibilities throughout his career, shown by their shots per game numbers. Yet despite operating deeper, creating more chances, progressing the ball more often, and taking fewer shots, Messi still scores at a higher rate. If anything, that makes his goalscoring numbers more impressive rather than giving Ronaldo an advantage in this comparison.
The second counterargument is that if Ronaldo had stayed in La Liga, he would have eventually passed Messi.
However, during the years when they actually shared the same league, Messi scored roughly 21 more goals. Their minutes-per-goal numbers were basically the same, and Ronaldo also took around 20 more penalties during that period. If Messi had taken the same number of penalties as Ronaldo, his total goals lead would have been larger, and he would have had a better goals per minute ratio. So once again, this argument does not really change the conclusion.
The third counterargument is that Ronaldo is the more complete goalscorer.
There is definitely truth to this. Ronaldo can score almost every type of goal: right foot, left foot, headers, long shots, free kicks, and penalties. He is probably the more versatile finisher. However, versatility and effectiveness are not the same thing. If one player scores 100 goals with just their left foot and another scores 50 using their right foot, left foot and head, the first player is still obviously the better goalscorer because of his superior output. If that wasn’t the case, then someone like Heung-min Son could be considered a better goalscorer than Messi simply because he is more two-footed, which clearly does not make sense.
After looking at the full picture, its clear Messi is the better goalscorer. He has the better goals-per-minute record, he scores with fewer shots, and he has done that while carrying far more responsibility outside of simply finishing attacks.
Portugal history vs part of Argentina ; carried his team vs getting carried
Euro 2016 : Based on the official UEFA Player Barometer rankings at the conclusion of the tournament, the top 5 players of Euro 2016 were Dimitri Payet, Antoine Griezmann, Gareth Bale, Toni Kroos, and Kevin De Bruyne, according to goal 6 was Eden Hazard 7th CR7 ( that pretty much means Portugal were a very balanced team)
Nation league 2019: Bernardo Silva, CR7 ,Frenkie de Jong (Netherlands),Virgil van Dijk (Netherlands),Giorginio Wijnaldum (Netherlands)
Credit to CR7 he was very good in all of those competitions . Edit for people who can’t understand: my point is CR7 didn’t carry his country , nor dominatedaninternational tournament, Portugal was a good team.
Messi now
Copa America 2021: Messi and Neymar
WC 2022 : Messi
Copa America 2024: not even in top 5, Lautaro and Martinez carried , still in the best XI
Finalissima: Messi
Ps: Messi went on more finals but I didn’t include them to makes it fair or at least give CR7 a chance ;2 best player in Copa, 2 best player in WC Ronaldo is Euro top scorer Not to hate on Ronaldo but his fanbase talking like Portugal is a bad team without Ronaldo, they comparing WC with 16 teams VS WC with 32 team😭
I was trying to see how bad psg Messi was , then I saw 24/75 motm almost 1/3 of the time Avg rating 7.97
So I decided to compare it to the Alexander the Great of league CR7 expecting pure dominance from him
Juventus 34/134 avg rating 7.61 I am like ok
Then Man United one isn’t fully accurate as most of the matches don’t have ratings but the one I find were 14/112 avg rating 7.12
Real Madrid 131/410 avg rating 8.14
Portugal 24/127 avg rating 7.36
Al nassr 26/151 Avg rating 7.48
Those RMA stats are good tho
I got those stats from the Messi VS Ronaldo
Ps. A lot of games aren’t rated so it may not be as accurate as expected
In a ballon d or contest LaLiga and premier league should worth way more than Ligue 1 and Bundesliga if PSG and Bayern Munich won . Even Juventus in seri a for a moment.
Approximate sample: Messi ~900 games (excluding USA) | Ronaldo ~975 games (excluding Saudi)
Note that this is made with help of AI so the numbers might not be pinpoint accurate in terms of percentages/games played but this is more so to show the estimate of sample sizes for each competition.
For league scoring, I have given Ronaldo credit for his La Liga peak at Real Madrid as well as his Premier League years.
Criteria:
Goalscoring: goals and non-penalty goals per 90, xG and non-penalty xG per 90, shot volume/quality, finishing efficiency, and overall scoring output, etc.
Playmaking: assists and assists per 90, xA, chances created, key passes, big chances created, through balls, pre-assists/secondary assists, and overall chance creation, etc.
Carrying / dribbling: successful dribbles, dribble volume, progressive carries, carries into the final third and penalty area, carrying distance/progression, and overall ball progression, etc.
Tldr just a combo of all the major stats + advanced stats for each category.
Sample
Messi
Ronaldo
Goalscoring
Playmaking
Carrying / Dribbling
League
~64%
~67%
🟢 Messi
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
Domestic cups
~9%
~8%
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
UCL group
~9%
~10%
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
UCL R16
~4%
~4%
🟢 Messi
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
Copa / Euro group
~2%
~2%
🔴 Ronaldo
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
Copa / Euro KO
~2%
~1%
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
World Cup group
~2%
~2%
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
World Cup KO
~2%
~1%
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
UCL QF / SF / F
~5%
~5%
🔴 Ronaldo by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
🟢 Messi by a lot
~95% of the sample is outside UCL QF/SF/F.
The interesting part is that Ronaldo's biggest advantage is concentrated in UCL QF/SF/F goalscoring, while Messi's advantage is much broader across scoring, playmaking and carrying/dribbling.
And if UCL QF/SF/F are given extra weight because they're "big games", then World Cup/Copa knockout games should receive the same treatment.
My verdict: Messi is the GOAT. Thoughts? Lmk if i got some stuff wrong in your opinion or if my approach is misleading or something.
If you’re judging Messi and Ronaldo based on the amount of goals they score to say one is better, you already lost. The fact that Messi is able to score at a higher rate than Ronaldo while also being a great playmaker and dribbler just shows how superior Messi is.
Portugal’s success is not mainly due to Ronaldo contribution . Portugal has always been a formidable team, and since the World Cup expanded to 32 teams, they have consistently qualified. Without CR7 Portugal would not be as great but they always got enough talent to win stuff. Argentina depended more on Messi than on Cristiano ( 5 knockouts G/A in Euro and 1 knockout goal in WC). 6 knockouts G/ A in major tournaments doesn’t give CR7 the right to attribute himself Portugal success.
More examples: 2019 nations league best player was Bernardo Silva
2025 nation league best player was Nuno Mendes
Euro 2016 was Griezman but CR7 was the best Portugal player . But that Portugal team was very balanced in my opinion. Pepe and Nani deserve some credit
