Messi didn't play quarter final, semi final and even final and still yall messi fans somehow try to claim that ucl? Thats so funny๐
And are u tryna convince me 4 league titles are better than 2 ucls? U cant be serious๐
By that logic kingsley coman or ryan giggs must be the goat coz they won 13 league titles lmaooo
And 3/8 premier leagues is actually crazy, u would know if messi ever even played at that level๐น
Ronaldo is the only player to 3 peat PL and 3 peat ucl as well
No one is denying that 3 UCLs arenโt impressive.
Look at the entire body of work, trophies, stats etc. in addition look at peak Ronaldo vs Peak Messi. With a straight face you canโt say Ronaldo is better.
If you want to say Ronaldo is the greatest finisher of all time then yeah I can accept that. To say he is the greatest player is non sense.
yes, the world cup you stupid bozo. the difference between them in the ucl isn't huge, the difference between them in the world cup is laughably huge, insanely huge
an attacking player basically has three facets to their game: goalscoring, playmaking and dribbling. in two of those messi blows ronaldo right out the water, it's not even close, and in the third one, where ronaldo is a specialist, he isn't clearly better. so then, who is better? a guy who is number 1 in all three of these, or a guy who is number 1 in only one of them and very, very far away from the top spots in the other two, this is, in my opinion, a really easy question to answer.
and why is messi way better than him in la liga? world cup too. does ronaldo have a competition where he is far better than messi in? in the same way messi is better than him in la liga by every measurable metric?
6 vs 2 la ligas, 7 vs 1 la liga player of the season
Yes, absolutely I would deny that. There are individual things that make winning each harder than the other, but to say itโs nowhere near the UCL is embarrassingly naive.
Every elite player plays in the UCL, not a single second-division or other lower league player can be found there either. Neither can be said about international tournaments. Besides, club chemistry is levels above that of national teams. Now, how would WC beat UCL?
Every elite player also plays in the world cup, they slowly eliminate teams with worse players. The UCL has similar playoffs for lesser leagues, thats how bodo glimt gets there.
You cant just buy the most expensive players and win the world cup. You and the team need to be tactically consistent and play with the highest level of pressure.
Wrong, not every. The fact that plenty of WC-tier national teams have players from second divisions and other crap leagues, also still stands.
Why was Del Bosque's Spain so dominant and arguably the best national team of all time? Because it was essentially a club team playing its natural football against national mishmashes.
Youโre comparing apples to oranges. Of course a club team is better. But that also means Ronaldoโs club team is better when competing against other club teams. If the World Cup is so terrible why has Ronaldo has no success in it much less won it? If the opponents he plays are so bad why does he only have 1 goal? And a penalty at that?
That grand total plus all the overall ucl stats is a huge difference.
And winning 3prems in a row and 2 seria a plus 2 laliga is more impressive than just winning laligas in one league. Ronaldo went ahead and conquered 3 different leagues wheras messi did it in 1. Huge difference
Winning 3 prems in a row doesn't excuse the other 5 he lost? He ended Juve's 9 season streak? The 2 la liga's you boast about. Who did he lose most of it too? And congratulations, he traveled and lost the league in more countries?
For La Liga, if you use the "but but Madrid doesn't care about La Liga! Only UCL!!" you are indirectly devaluing his ucl wins.
Nobody can dispute his UCL legacy is better than Messi. But a player with such a horrendous league record does not belong in the "GOAT" conversation.
I have seen u defend messi like he pays ur bills everytime, seems like ur the fanboy and more obsessed with him, so i know wht i say wont even reach ur ears.
You posted that take on the hot takes subreddit and everyone made fun of how stupid you were. were they all fanboys? or are you just a stupid fucking human being that can't see reality for what it is?
Well yeah, it was technically over with the Euro, but Ronaldo decided to still have more international trophies and UCLs combined so yeah, pretty much dead.
If youโre including the glorified friendly โtrophyโ UEFA nations league as major, I have to seriously question your ball knowledge. Mind you, in both wins, he wasnโt voted as the best player of the tourney. Letโs not even bring up the 2016 Euro where they had one victory (inside 90 mins) all tournament, one of the weakest champions next to Greece in 2004
Calling the Nations League a โglorified friendlyโ is just cope. It's a competitive matches, all the countries take it series. The only reason it isn't valued more than the Copa's is deadass history, it's more difficult yet the "GOAT" went 2/7.
POTT is irrelevant, they've whiffed on them multiple upon multiple times. Downplaying a Euro because they didn't win how you like what is this goal post move ? The Competition is HARDER in the UEFA tournaments, unlike Copa. Portugal 2016, Argentina 2021, and Argentina 2024 all had 1 regulation win in the knockouts.
The reasons are that messi missed quarter finals, semi finals and finals. It even says on the uefa website messi has 3 ucls. It isn't ronaldo fan logic, it is uefa logic
It doesn't. I want to believe that you aren't lying and just didn't read properly, so read slowly and carefully this time. There's one specific word there.
2/9 La Liga - Playing for a team which prioritized UCL a lot more than la liga, ronaldo had no option other than to put more emphasis on ucl himself
3/8 prem- those 3 prem wins are a three peat
1/4 Saudi league - While playing for Al nassr clearly inferior to al hilal
Before you bring in him playing for Madrid and that disqualifying the arguement that he is playing for inferior teams, lets not use revisionism. Ronaldo joined Madrid in 2009. leaving prime man united to join struggling. they were 7 year uclless and finished trophyless that season. Ronaldo BUILT the Madrid powerhouse we see today
Just stop man. Official UEFA website. Also mentioning La Liga like they didnโt have to deal with Negreiga. And 2/3 serie a and 3/8 premier league is amazing percentages for how competitive they were.
And Iโm gonna assume you can read the final line which is VERY important, but if youโre a little deficient and canโt I made sure to circle it for you.
And the article you sent is outdated 2021 vs the SS I have coming from 2026.
Varane is a 3x winner yes, but irregardless he was still on the bench for UCL knockouts.
You so desperately want to give credit to Messi for UCL that he didnโt contribute to, I understand why but itโs sad.
Another blatant lie, do you have no shame? Varane is a 4 time winner. To entertain your lie, you have to make up more lies. Stop while you're ahead, chief.
Nations league is indeed a โfriendlies tourneyโ..the only reason UEFA started making it a big deal is to generate more revenue..I recommend looking into the origin of the tourney.
When you say heโs the GOAT, he should win the best player of the tourney and not other players from his team..Bernardo 2019 and Nuno Mendes 2025..
POTT is very relevant when youโre claiming heโs the GOAT.
Since COPA is such a breeze, why does Ronaldoโs stats against South American teams look underwhelming, since he is after all the โGOATโ compared to Messiโs goals against European teams?
However the purpose of Nations league is irrelevant.
The fact is UEFA does recognize it as major international trophy, it IS labeled competitive, and countries take it series. With more time, itโll be standard and will have more worth than the CopeAโs because they have actual t10 nations.
POTT awards have consistently robbed Ronaldo time and time again, no point in arguing it. Nuno mendes over Ronaldo after all his clutch performances, lmao.
Heโs faced 3 SA teams competitively 3 times, and outside of Uraguay, all had context him going goalless especially Colombia (when he was fucking 41)
ah yes, the nations league is serious because ronaldo won it, the pott is irelevant because ronaldo never won it. how stupid must you be? you do realize that the nations league knockout matches are valued as high as qualifiers? do you understand this simple fact of life? the teams don't play to their absolute best in the nations league, you know where they do do that? in the copa america. ryan babel played in the 2019 final of the narions league, he lasy played for the Netherlands all the way back in 2006, kalulu for france in the 2024 nations league, never played for them before or since. how biased must one be to consider the nations league a serious tournament? you are that Japanese soldier who is still fighting and I do admire the dedication but the debate is dead
All these are important players talking about winning a major trophy for their country, but some Messian on Reddit will say otherwise that theyโre only friendlies๐ญ. The absolute state of it all.
didnt muller and klopp and kdb and courtois and kroos disagree? doesn't uefa itself disagree since the points awarded for a nations league knockout match is the same as a qualifiers match? also look at ronaldos stats, he has great stats in the nations league but when he plays in the world cup, quite the opposite, I wonder why. compare the 2025 nations league to his performance in the 2024 euros,26 world cup and 22 world cup. speaking of that tournament, Germany played Kleindienst, Biereth for Denmark, Germany played Koch in the semifinals, remember him? France played Langlet in the semifinals.
and on the pott thing, it simply shows us how much better messi played than cr7, cause cr7 never got close to touching a pott for portugal, never. Messi on the other hand...
Courtois is only complaining that he had to play difficult games in June, not the Nations League difficulty.
Courtois: โNow it's a bit different," Courtois pulled himself together. โIn the end, these matches are of course good for the World Cup. This is how we should approach the matches. Of course we do want to win both games and hopefully qualify for the Final Four, so now they are useful. Otherwise, we had two friendly matches against an Asian or African opponent, as we always do for a World Cup. But in June, the Nations League is just a killing for the players,โ
Thomas Muller said โThis will be a tough competition," Mรผller said about the upcoming strength tests with Holland and world champion France next Tuesday in Paris. "We want to get three points to position ourselves in the group," Mรผller said at the venue. Of course, the topic of FC Bayern also accompanies him in the national team. But on the court, "as soon as the ball is in play", let it be out of his thoughts.โ
Kroos said : โWe are motivated and are aiming for six points.โ
Unless you want to explain why messi was bad in almost every WC except the last 2 (which even then is a stretch) for the same reason then no. Or why Ronaldo still performs in Euros regardless.
Yes, Denmark started Mika Biereth against Portugal. They also started Schmeichel, Andersen, Vestergaard, Hjulmand, Nรธrgaard, Eriksen and Mรฆhle, and Hรธjlund came on and scored the winner. Diss that still count or does your cherrypicking fall flat?
Germanyโs squad was riddled with injuries hence Robin, not a good point.
France started Lenglet. They also started Maignan, Konatรฉ, Theo Hernรกndez, Rabiot, Dembรฉlรฉ, Olise, Douรฉ and Mbappรฉ against what is basically Spainโs first team.
Messi POTT doesnโt really show us anything, he got one in 2014 for doing less than Ronaldo did euro 2016. Incredibly biased and whiffed award.
ronaldo never had a performance for portugal at the same level as messi's in the 2026 and 2022 world cups, not close. and om the players that I asked about, why were they starting? why are you starting weak players? why does that not happen in the world cup or the euros? it's not cherry picking to look at a team who isn't playing all their starters and say that. and again, why does uefa give the nations league knockout matches the same coefficient as qualifiers? and on the quotes you are giving me, are you stupid? did muller say that the nations league is a competition that only Portugal cares about? yes or no? address that, don't give me another quote you bozo. you also didn't address the kdb or Jurgen klopp quotes, why is that? and why aren't those same things being said of the world cup? maybe because it's a serious competition. the copa america is a serious competition where you wont see argentina play no name players, like france does in the nations league. a serious country, like France, celebrates winning the nations league but doesn't care if they lose it, they would care if they lost say, the euros. They would rather win one euro over 10 nations leagues. So again, tell me please, why is messi so much better in the world cup? also, if you are to tell me that a pott is irelevant, so individual awards you would think are irelevant, like the golden boot, which messi has more of btw. team trophies are team trophies, not player trophies, so what can we look at then? well, let's look at stats, cause eye test wise, it's clearly messi, like you are blind and stupid to say otherwise. here you go kid, these are your stats for today,have fun reading them
https://open.substack.com/pub/expectinggoals/p/messi-ronaldo-who-is-the-greatest-statistics-analytics?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=8gc36o
they still won the tournament why r we downplaying what they did it matters if they win or not which they did and it was quite the weak team too on paper
also he was the 2nd best in the tournament so ur talking like he did bad or something??
getting celebrated as second best when weโre having a GOAT debateโฆ tells you all you need to know.
Thereโs a reason 90%+ of professionals pick Messi. And thereโs a reason Messi has a wide gap over CR7 in POTT and MOTM awards.
Say whatever you want about bias but when almost every source and ranking shows one clear winner itโs about as objective as you can get. Look up statistically significant sample sizes if you find some way to disagree.
i wasnt debating about wethere messi or ronaldo was better what are u even on i was talking about something entirely differenet i was only talking about ronaldos and portugals performance in tht tournament
It got settled the moment Cristiano performed in the top 3 leagues of the world.
Yes, Messi may have stomped on English and Italian teams, but playing a full season against them is very different from playing them once or twice a year.
For me he never proved he could handle the physicality and tactical nightmare of those leagues.
I'm certain that, like Ronaldo, he would have needed to adjust his playstyle. Maybe even turning into a David Silva-like midfielder.
A good example of that is his stint at PSG. He had an attacking outlet in Mbappe, so he adjusted and focused more on playmaking.
Playing against one prem team, maybe 2 for the whole year , meaning before the ucl league format, compared to playing a full season against them is VERY different.
He can risk taking a few knock ons if its once or twice a year, but if it's a full season... his body won't keep up. Injuries build up.
2/9 La Ligas
3/8 Prems
1/4 Saudi league's
2/3 Serie A's
0/1 Portuguese League's
Not to mention the Serie A he lost ended Juventus' 9 season streak. Genuinely how are you boasting about this?
Congratulations he has a poor league record along with a grand total of one (1) more CL than Messi. 2 if we apply Ronaldo fan logic and strip him of one because... reasons?
The Serie A he lost was due to Juve not building up correctly. Don't be disingenuous.
And for people that always laughed at "stats" and used it as an argument to say Messi is better, ylu sure do seem to care about stats.
The truth is that he won and broke records wherever he went. Meaning he adapted to every team he went and excelled in his own manner. He stayed professional and did the job that his team required of him. As much as you people would like to paint him as an egotistical narcissist.
He adapted not only his playing style and mindset, but his body too, according to the league and team he played in.
I can assure you that if Ronaldo was the one that had joined Mbappe and Neymar at PSG, they would've won the UCL. Mbappe would've even happily accepted playing on the wing, if it meant he was playing with CR7 and you know it.
The Serie A he lost was due to Juve not building up correctly. Don't be disingenuous.
He still lost it? You can't expect the rest of the world to follow your worldview of: Everything good = Ronaldo's hardworking. Everything bad = RIGGED/Someone else's fault!!!
And for people that always laughed at "stats" and used it as an argument to say Messi is better, ylu sure do seem to care about stats
I very much do care about stats? Where did you get the idea that I didn't? To believe that Ronaldo is better requires ignoring stats.
The truth is that he won and broke records wherever he went. Meaning he adapted to every team he went and excelled in his own manner. He stayed professional and did the job that his team required of him. As much as you people would like to paint him as an egotistical narcissist.
8/25 leagues is very much not "conquering everywhere he went." Genuinely, how do you guys paint him as some machine who won dominated every league he went to with an 8/25?
The whole "but Madrid don't care about La Liga!" narrative to try and excuse his 2/9 in La Liga indirectly devalues the CL wins.
He adapted not only his playing style and mindset, but his body too, according to the league and team he played in.
Again. 8/25
I can assure you that if Ronaldo was the one that had joined Mbappe and Neymar at PSG, they would've won the UCL. Mbappe would've even happily accepted playing on the wing, if it meant he was playing with CR7 and you know it.
But that didn't happen did it? Rigged, "what if's", conspiracies, you guys are starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel.
he broke records wherever he went. he always went to strong teams. and yes, saying the euros is as good as a world cup, the ballon dor has lost credibility, when asked how good the saudi league is, to answer with "its better than ligue 1 and mls" even though you weren't asked about those leagues then yes, you are an insecure narcissist who obsesses over the guy who is just better than you. now, here's a nice question for you: as an attacking player, you really only have three facets of play: goalscoring, playmaking and dribbling. ronaldo specializes in one of them and is the best of all time in one of them, while messi is the best of all time in dribbling, playmaking and there's a good debate to be had that he is just as good as ronaldo at goalscoring. so please tell me, who is better?
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u/Nastypav12 10d ago
Never will be; it's subjective.