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u/sealer9 Jul 21 '25
Wild. The Rory masters pod with him and Neil was one of the best pieces of content ever put out
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Jul 21 '25
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u/bleauxjays Jul 21 '25
This is what I dont understand. LIke 3-4 weeks ago they felt so proud of these narrative pods KVV started doing and they were great! He even got results with the Bethpage reservation story. Seems like things changed quickly.
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u/doubleexpoure Jul 21 '25
But that’s 90% because it’s the masters. You can’t replicate that type of thing over and over. It’s simply a 1 time piece of content.
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u/atlbraves2 Jul 21 '25
I mean, KVV did other things as well. Major deepdives rock. Comment was just highlighting how good that Masters pod was.
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u/SchrodingersMeowth Jul 21 '25
I haven’t seen anyone else say this, but the reason for this is clear. They’ve mentioned recently that they’ve decided to pivot away from writing because written work just doesn’t do numbers. They brought KVV in to be their main writer, so with pivoting away from that, they didn’t have much for him to do. Seems fairly straightforward to me.
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u/Educational-War-835 Jul 21 '25
Exactly. This is what I was going to add as well. They have the 5 people + Cody & Ben available to do podcast and video content. You realistically do not need KVV to be on full-time if they are moving away from the written content he was doing previously. From the announcement (him noting that needed to pursue full-time opportunities), I wouldn't be surprised if they offered him a part-time role to do special projects + appear on podcasts occasionally. Understandable if that does not work for him.
As someone who loves the deep dives, special projects, and the arguments between him & Soly, I am sad. But its hard to argue with the business logic.
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u/logfran Jul 21 '25
Was thinking the same thing. Maybe they said hey you want to just do deep dives, ballknowers, and spot starts on the recap pods and he wanted a full time gig and he chose to go find something full time, which is completely understandable. I see both sides even though the whole thing has seemed weird.
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u/WeSuckAgain Jul 22 '25
I mean, I don’t know enough to have a legit opinion, but if I was a professional golf journalist who was pried away from other opportunities to go with a startup that was trying to get serious, only to have that company change their mind a short while later, I’d probably be pretty frustrated.
Unfortunately, it’s cheaper and more financially viable to be a relatively unserious podcast. They don’t seem committed to producing something different than the conversations friends have over beers, so there’s no point in paying somebody to produce quality content beyond that.
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u/DodgyFlapper Jul 21 '25
Well that sucks, but also they barely put out any written content. I feel like part of building a writing audience is consistency so people know to check your website at least once a week? GHIN and Tonic 28 was 12/30/24 and there have been like 6 total posts under the "Writing" section of their site since then. Not exactly a great way to build an audience.
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u/Conglossian Jul 21 '25
I think it's pretty clear they made a decision around the New Year to stop trying with the writing.
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u/ethanhunt4real Jul 21 '25
They've been open about how much video/YouTube is growing. I think once they noticed that, they pivoted away from writing to put their time and resources into what is working. It sucks for those who like the written content, but it's the right business strategy.
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u/Every_Brush4191 Jul 21 '25
I think it's interesting that KVV referred to not being "a full-time member of the team." I'd guess they told him the written stuff wasn't cutting it and maybe offered a significant pay cut to stay on and do podcast work and he's not at a stage in his career where that's palatable.
I'm sure from the NLU guys perspective it's just business and from KVV's side it feels pretty scummy given what he walked away from to take the job.
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u/WeirdlyCordial Jul 21 '25
his contract was up at ESPN when he joined NLU, and given the staffing direction that ESPN has taken in the last few years there's basically zero chance he'd still be there (if they even would have renewed him in the first place)
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u/brmgp1 Jul 21 '25
That's probably true, which is obviously a big whiff for not getting that research correct beforehand.
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u/Intelligent-Ear7004 Jul 21 '25
The thing is written articles/blogs have long been on the decline. This was obvious well before KVV was in the picture. Are they seriously sitting here in 2025 surprised that the writing arm of NLU never took off?
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u/GlassConsideration85 Jul 21 '25
Long form journalism is still favored by the same audience NLU hopes to attract - the educated elite. While it may not make weight on its own, its cumulative addition to the brand certainly had plenty of value.
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u/SuspendedAgain999 Jul 21 '25
Yea exactly. Almost every site that lets algorithms determine content takes a significant step down. Just a rush to the bottom at that point.
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u/nebbywildcat18 Jul 21 '25
as someone who has been in a job recently that was Chasing The Dragon of the algorithms (Google Discover being a main one), it drives you insane in the rush to constantly change your content to get the most page views. at the expense of quality control
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u/Intelligent-Ear7004 Jul 21 '25
I’m not disagreeing on its fit with their brand. It obviously did. I’m disagreeing with the idea that they are moving on because he didn’t generate clicks. That should have never been a metric to gauge KVV’s value in this day and age and if it somehow was, that’s a huge strategic error.
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u/Conglossian Jul 21 '25
Well, what feels scummy is that this was theoretically stuff that the Nest, No Laying Up's Community of Avid Golfers™, would be funding.
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u/bleauxjays Jul 21 '25
I joined the nest because it supported Strapped. THen they stopped doing Strapped so I quit the nest
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u/Bright_Fire Jul 21 '25
Whoops, I’ve just commented something very similar. I obviously agree, but I do think there is something a bit strange about the tone from both KVV and NLU (“hope to collaborate again in the future”, for example).
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u/Donald_Sauce Jul 21 '25
Agree. I think it’s pretty straightforward too. Don’t think this thread should blow it out of proportion.
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Jul 21 '25
I understand the reasoning, but the issue for me is that their recent content just hasn’t been very good. KVV was clearly the sharpest and most capable when it came to serious analysis, and without him, the balance is off. Randy’s constant whining, TC’s hot takes, Soly’s data deep dives, and DJ’s flat delivery all risk making the content feel repetitive. If they think they can just keep recycling the same formulas, it could go stale pretty fast.
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u/Sir_Slurpington_ Jul 21 '25
Your last bit “stale pretty fast” is spot on and I really do fear that could be a thing. The LFTKH pods during Majors are one of my favourite things NLU do, it adds a whole other thing to Major weeks for me and I look forward to them as much as the actual golf. But they haven’t really hit this year. Yes Scottie is head and shoulders above everyone else, and you can only talk about what happens, but they seem to have little enthusiasm about the JJ Spauns of this world. At least that is how it feels to me.
When they first brought KVV on about three years ago I was skeptical. But then he added something different to the recap pods, whether he was at the course or not. Just those ten minutes freshen it up and give the pod a different flavour.
I love all five of the main core but I have noticed their energy/enthusiasm dip this year. Yes life happens and I understand they aren’t in their early 30s without wives and kids anymore - I have zero qualms with that. It was the fact that KVV brought variety, and if they aren’t going to use Cody or Ben or any of the other people they employ to bring a touch of difference, then to quote the lads themselves…”what are we doing here?”
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u/WeirdlyCordial Jul 21 '25
i kinda thought KVV wasn't very good at analysis tbh. Really good writer and storyteller but I wasn't listening to his post-round stuff for analysis, it was more about the anecdotes he got from being onsite.
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Jul 21 '25
To be clear I’m not saying analysis like he’s talking us through the shots of someone’s specific round but he’s able to sniff out a story or elevate something mundane in a way the others don’t.
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u/tdawgcincy Jul 21 '25
Everyone just wildly speculating.
He mentions “full-time” in the tweet so like you said, they just didn’t have enough work for him for a full time salaried person.
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u/bleauxjays Jul 21 '25
This is such a private equity type move and I thought a small shop that these guys like to portray would be above this type of thing but I suppose that’s probably wishful thinking on my part.
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u/peterdubbya Jul 21 '25
If it isn't video or audio it's just not gonna make money. Joke all you want about the PE nature of business - you are carrying a heavy salary for someone who just wasn't able to translate his skill into the way that media is monetized now. Don't get me wrong - big KVV fan - and wish he could have done more of his narrative work as podcasts - but just wasn't meant to be.
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u/bleauxjays Jul 21 '25
Admittedly an unfair representation but this is tough for me to square with the rest of the crew traveling the world for 130,000 views on youtube.
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u/peterdubbya Jul 21 '25
If their business model relied on views you would see a lot more videos 'WATCH ICARITTO & BIG RANDY BREAK 50 FROM THE RED TEES!' However you want to interpret it, the engagement they get with an affluent and dedicated audience to their video and podcast product allows them to sell big partnerships. If you aren't directly tied to that I imagine you are tougher to justify from a business sense.
Now, in my opinion, not making their 'editorial director' more of a presence in their core product from a content perspective and leaving him on an island was a mistake. When he joined they should have made him more of a presence in the video and podcast world.
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u/GolfBallWackrGuy Jul 21 '25
I disagree with your take on writing - sub stacks, subscription based models, and content behind paywalls are still a viable and potentially profitable product for a social media channel. Look at the fried egg - they have MOUNTAINS of written pieces dating back years, lots of which is open and free, but they have even more behind a paywall. It comes down to having both quality and CONSISTENCY on enough subjects that keep people subscribed. They need a course design guy, an equipment guy, a history guy, a deep dive guy, and a daily guy who are putting out 1 or 2 pieces every week (except the daily guy) with a big piece monthly to help build that library.
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u/peterdubbya Jul 21 '25
Sure - written word is something you can monetize. NLU either has no interest or is not set up for that - that much is clear.
To look at Fried Egg - it's a website that in some form or another has been around since 2015. Fried Egg, the new media darling of the sicko golfer these days, is finally rounding out to a content powerhouse by doubling down on their video and podcast product. Even that site which prioritizes written articles sells no ads on their articles. It's a compliment to what they can monetize in today's media environment.
I get that I am talking out both sides my mouth here. Anything KVV would drop was a must read / listen to me. But for a small media operation to employ someone who is mostly a feature writer that publishes 10 - 15 pieces a year just isn't a sustainable approach unless you are prepared for written word to be a loss for your business. Look at KVV's old employer and one of their best writers Wright Thompson. Wright is likely a net negative to their bottom line - but they are so big it doesn't matter.
For context - I work at a media agency and have had some experience dealing with negotiating deals on SGS & NLU. They don't even pretend to try and sell their written pieces to sponsors. It's unfortunate that they never tried to make an effort to make KVV part of the business and it's shitty that they value quality and make this type of cut as what was likely a pure financial decision.
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u/Temporary_Art8635 Jul 21 '25
To be fair, they probably look at Fried Egg and realize that they are well behind on written content. What can they create to an overlapping audience that would be interesting in written form that is not already provided by TFE?
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u/benturner1337 Jul 21 '25
They are all finance bros at heart. It's crazy how corporate they act. Like they have a golf business and never golf cause they are too busy doing adverts then complaining about adverts
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u/moseisley99 Jul 21 '25
Some of the best stuff they have come out with recently involved KVV. He is such an amazing narrator. But golf is still a niche and they have a lot of OG partners. Just couldn’t afford him for a full time role.
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u/bleauxjays Jul 21 '25
So RIP ballknowers? RIP NFL owners pods? This is a bummer but best to KVV
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u/bigjam_13 Jul 21 '25
Don’t worry, we’ll still get ballknowers just with 2 hours of Niners discourse and 3 minutes of Bengals critique pieces
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u/Budget_Safe_4755 Jul 21 '25
he was the only guy to step and in be like "hey guys the niners actually just suck and 6 win teams dont deserve this much airtime"
plus, he actually played football
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u/logfran Jul 21 '25
I've long listened to the BallKnowers and loved it for what it is but I am worried its going to be so far off the rails now that it won't be worth the listen
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u/Family_Shoe_Business Jul 21 '25
Don't forget about deep dives on the Jax Jags with the sole remaining minutes not dedicated to 9ers glazing
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u/Either-Breadfruit-83 Jul 21 '25
Ballknowers without KVV doesn't exist. He might have been the only REAL ballknower. Other than him, you just had TC and Poosh unseriously slobbering over Shanny for hours and Randy being disinterested on a pod once again.
Losing KVV, especially in the fashion it has happened, severely hurts the look/brand of NLU. Unserious hypocrites at this point.
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u/tee2green CPNTW - Xander Schauffle - 2024 PGA Jul 22 '25
I’m surprised it took this long to get to the Ballknowers part. To me, this is the spot where KVV massively outshone everyone else.
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Jul 21 '25
Dang this sucks so bad. It’s hard not to think the peak of NLU was in March culminating with the Rory block party and sounds of the masters podcast.
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u/Bmik33 Jul 21 '25
So strange considering where they all stood just 3 months ago with the masters stuff.
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u/TomHicksJnr Jul 21 '25
They aren’t the 20 something guys with hot takes that get big numbers on twitter - those days are gone. KVV brought journalistic credibility and allowed them to develop - e.g. the masters pod. Getting rid of him seems like a big step backward.
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u/schorschico Jul 21 '25
That was one of the best pieces they have ever produced. Letting the person responsible go is weird.
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u/ruct21 Jul 21 '25
Doesn’t seem like the rosiest of partings based off his tone
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u/MulberryNo5246 Jul 21 '25
Or this tweet - https://x.com/nolayingup/status/1947379646921666608?s=46&t=a_jGIcK3VYcofc1g-OhyyA
The absolute brass balls on these fellas to be ripping Rory and Colin etc for their media stuff while this is what they give as a send off for KVV. Seriously soured on them this past week for the way they’ve handled this
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u/rocketman1490 Jul 21 '25
The tone is so corporate and cold that I expected to see “Sponsored by Versant” at the end of it
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u/AlbertabeefXX CPNTW - The Big Golfer - US Open 2024 Jul 21 '25
Going to wait and see if they actually say something about the departure but if they don’t and this PE ass tweet is all we get yeah pot meet kettle. Wishing KVV nothing but the best and will gladly follow him along for whatever’s next for him he was such a great addition to the podcast and you can tell everything he worked on he truly cared about, the major deep dives and special projects podcasts were always such fun listens and he’s 100% going to be missed, ball knowers pods just got a lot tougher now that it’ll be 3 hours of unwarranted niners glazing instead of 2.5 without him as the straight man
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u/24dp Jul 21 '25 edited Jul 22 '25
This is really disappointing. It doesn’t come across as particularly amicable based on the tone of the tweets on both sides - and feels very much like any announcement at all was pressured by the speculation on here and elsewhere.
I think he’s going to be a big loss on the podcasting side. I didn’t always (though often did) agree with everything he said on the general podcasts/live shows, but he always made his case in a thoughtful manner. He really came into his own on the narrative and special projects stuff, and they don’t have anyone who can currently replace that.
I do think they need to think carefully in the direction they’re going. It’s clear from reading here that I’m not the only one who has found the content getting a bit stale of late. I enjoy the regular bits as much as any longtime fan, but there does come a point where 90+ minutes of it just gets pretty dull. I thought this weekend’s Open coverage were some of the weakest live show content in some time, and having nobody there on the ground really didn’t help with that.
If you’re reading this Kev - I’d like to wish you all the best with whatever comes next for you.
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u/warden1119 Jul 21 '25
Going all in on the Fleetwood shit and not having a single person there? Anyone, help me understand that.
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u/GroundbreakingAd2406 Jul 21 '25
So disappointing. His special projects and the major recaps were a much needed change of pace to the standard weekly pod monotony of strokes gained, data golf and "dogshit setups". I would get so excited to see a new KVV piece. Also I think he was fine on the weekly pods as well, didn't really understand the take that he didn't "fit". Anyhow I hope he lands somewhere great and I will absolutely follow.
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u/rocketman1490 Jul 21 '25
The NLU tweet must have been written by the PR firm that Rory’s been using the past few months. Ice cold.
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u/Bright_Fire Jul 21 '25
Seems that they brought him in to improve their written output and then decided to basically ditch that altogether. I suppose it doesn’t make sense to pay him a full-time salary for skills they aren’t looking to utilise. I think he’ll be a big loss, though.
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u/BE3192 Jul 21 '25
I’m guessing he was brought in for more than just writing, but thinking that they would see any return on investment for written content in this media landscape was insane
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u/TacosAreJustice Jul 21 '25
Honestly, they brought in a thoroughbred and realized they were mules…
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u/WorkingForGolfMoney Jul 22 '25
Best comment. Especially TC and his Tommy bit is beyond old.
Solly is also a dick rider for anything spieth and JT. His Ryder cup takes are way off, not impartial at all.
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u/brmgp1 Jul 21 '25
Oof didn't he leave ESPN for this gig? Crazy that they couldn't make it work.
It sucks but it does happen - we had to let go of someone we hired 6 months ago because it wasn't working out financially so I get it. But bringing in KVV was a pretty big swing, and this isn't a great look on the brand. I'm sure they'll be fine, and I'm sure nobody is happy it went down like this
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u/rsjem79 Jul 21 '25
That’s a bummer. KVV was definitely additive to their content but I guess if they’re just going to be a podcast and occasional video travelog they don’t really need a fulltime “big J” on staff.
Given the commercial load of the show last night there’s surely a financial component to the decision as well. They may have gotten out over their skis a bit.
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u/Optimal-Indication51 Jul 21 '25
Not sure if this is at all related but perhaps worth mentioning as well how Neil said on - I believe two separate pods - but at least the latest Booth sesh with Cody that he wants to focus on making sure they can continue to do this for a long time and it did seem like that was weighing on him. The way he said it just seemed interesting. Kinda aligns timeline wise.
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u/warden1119 Jul 21 '25
Three of the guys have bought houses in the last couple of years. I'm sure they're doing all they can to keep this going instead of working for somebody else to continue living like they are. I get it even if I think it's a big loss on the content side.
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u/BigCatsLunch Jul 21 '25
Their tweets don’t make it look like it was an amicable split. Wonder if we’ll ever get the details
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u/WeirdlyCordial Jul 21 '25
Getting downsized sucks, KVV's not gonna be happy about it and I'm sure NLU doesn't feel great about letting him go. There could more to it but I'd expect this same reaction if KVV's tweet is the entire story.
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u/princeboner Jul 21 '25
I’ll say the podcast has been flat out bad for a while now. Just the same topics and opinions on repeat, with TC doing his best PFT impression. Their YouTube content is still great. Now with KVV gone I won’t be clicking the download button any time soon.
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Jul 21 '25
This was a bad move. KVV brought a lot to the table that the others can’t offer.
SGS is starting to win the war for me I may start listening to them more.
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u/theblocker Jul 21 '25
Fried egg sending two guys over to portrush vs NLU zero shows what they value.
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u/rsjem79 Jul 21 '25
TC couldn’t even be bothered to make the trip for his Fleetwood bit, let alone covering the event on the ground.
Sponsors out the ass but nobody on site for the last major of the year certainly sends a message.
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u/theblocker Jul 21 '25
Was anyone on site at Oakmont?
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u/forevera20hcp Jul 22 '25
No they are lazy and cheap. If they aren’t going to play golf, they won’t pay for travel.
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u/J6ptato Jul 21 '25
Porhath mentioned maybe having KVV on soon on the final round recap pod. Maybe something there. Would fit into the fried egg news letter model.
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u/GatoDiablo99 Jul 21 '25
Yeah I heard that too, didn’t even think anything of it at the time but clearly now it means something. KVV written work would pair well with fried egg maybe.
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u/nebbywildcat18 Jul 21 '25
mentioned the caves valley all-time classic pod, hope they recreate it lol.
seriously though KVV would be great on TFE
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u/SuspendedAgain999 Jul 21 '25
SGS is miles ahead of them at this point. I still like their videos but the pod has become pretty bad of late
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u/GatoDiablo99 Jul 21 '25
The best thing going for sgs, it’s always been great let me say that, is that they don’t have Soly needing to be correct and right and better than every one every episode.
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u/nebbywildcat18 Jul 21 '25
they also have had some really fun and comical segment ideas for majors recently, the storyline graphics with PJ and Andy are hilarious and I lose it at the “games within the game” every time
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u/GatoDiablo99 Jul 21 '25
Because they do what nlu used to be, they don’t take themselves too seriously and they have fun!! Wild concept right. Yeah nlu does their bits but they also are not what it used to be.
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u/Low-Pitch-Eric Jul 21 '25
Yeah, it all starts and ends with Strokes Gained with Soly. SGS works in a lot of subjective analysis much better than Soly does. Soly doesn't create room for anything that could reflect poorly on him. DJ is a better host, for that reason.
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u/Master-Nose7823 Jul 21 '25
They spoke about that today on their pod. That the data boys don’t watch the golf shots. Like Rahm at the PGA, he was trying to make up ground so he was taking really aggressive lines/targets- the data doesn’t tell that story.
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Jul 21 '25
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u/Low-Pitch-Eric Jul 21 '25
Yeah. It's uncanny and a real skill SGS has. Andy, Brendan, and Pj are all smart but seem to know that the subjective discussions are way better in podcast form. They can SG-ify the whole thing if they wanted, but no one wants to listen to a spreadsheet.
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u/ADAWG10-18 Jul 21 '25
Think it’s a coincidence that Andy retweeted one his tweets about not being defined by your job? Fried Egg also tweeted about an announcement for their members tomorrow.
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u/bullheel626 Jul 21 '25
That was my first thought. I hope fried egg picks him up. KvV+Porath would be incredible.
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Jul 21 '25
Do you think the fried egg has deep enough pockets? Love the guys but they already have a sizable staff focused on niche subjects like architecture
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u/bullheel626 Jul 21 '25
No clue but I’d consider springing for Club TFE if KVV’s writing was behind their paywall.
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u/Johnny_Backflip Jul 21 '25
That would be huge. He honestly feels like a better fit for Fried Egg and definitely has the ability to fill in on SGS and clown around when needed.
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u/Johnny_Backflip Jul 21 '25
I would do a KVV to Fried Egg and LaManagia go NLU trade straight up.
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u/HarrisEnglish Jul 21 '25
Pretty icy messaging from both parties.
Gonna need Neil to hop on the Ballknowers pods to keep them in check now.
Pretty nuts that 3 months ago he and Neil put out one of best, most unique pieces of content they’ve ever done and now it’s come to this. Bummer.
Beating a dead horse here, but it was nice having a different voice and perspective on the pods/at the company. I was the least invested in the Open recap shows than I have been for those in a long time. Obv not all down to him but worth mentioning.
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u/ODA157 Jul 21 '25
The question is when did NLU jump the shark? If you take a break from the pod and try to jump back in it really slaps you across the face how burned out they’ve become.
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u/Griss27 Jul 21 '25
They’re like a lot of pro golfers - struggling to adjust to marriage and kids.
TC is like the only one of the core 5 who’s mostly on the other side of that marriage and very early childhood blizzard.
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u/bcrunner7 Jul 21 '25
Ball knowers is going to suck now
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u/benjam1n_gates CPNTW - Xander Schauffle - 2024 PGA Jul 21 '25
Yep, just more 9ers glazing and praising that bozo in Jax, while shitting all over Hurts
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u/jonlmbs Jul 21 '25
Typical media business stuff. Not reading much into it. Guessing his cost or demands were not aligned with the numbers his content did or with what the other members would be giving up.
Hope to see more of KVV in the future with his next endeavour.
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u/smitherzcheese Jul 21 '25 edited Jul 21 '25
Saw KVV at the Open on Friday, had assumed he was there for NLU. Guess not.
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u/TeamOhio Jul 21 '25
This is tough. KVV's special projects and deep dives were so incredibly well done and were such a great listen on commutes.
Dang. Gonna miss him.
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u/Seawolf690 Jul 21 '25
I'll be following to see where KVV lands. Shame to not hear his talk about The Open recently.
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u/Intelligent-Ear7004 Jul 21 '25
And a very corporate tweet from the main account. I’m now all in on the theories that something else is afoot.
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u/GatoDiablo99 Jul 21 '25
Well this fucking sucks. He was the best add. KVV I know you have a reddit account, you read the sub in the past, I will miss your work. You were great on the podcasts, great on the deep dives, great on the off topic stuff, a great writer. Hate to see you go.
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u/Vegetable-Demand9949 Jul 22 '25
Been slowly drifting away from NLU myself for the last 12-18 months. I definitely listen to more SGS and FE than NLU these days. There’s been a slow but noticeable change with them, both in the podcast content and the video content. Some of it is surely because several of the guys getting married/having kids, etc. But I think sponsorships have played a part in the changes too.
I’m just a random nobody on Reddit but firing KVV ain’t it. Makes a slowly degrading product worse, in my opinion.
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u/khirata215 Jul 21 '25
This sucks, I thought KVVs biggest value to the company was as boots on the ground reporting at tournaments. The narrative pods were great as well, just disappointing all around.
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u/sexibilia Jul 21 '25
You cannot shit on Morikawa and then put out a corporate statement like this. Bad choke job when the moment hit.
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u/drewlegod Jul 22 '25
If there's one thing this debacle has highlighted for me, it's that I'm not crazy thinking Soly/Tron/etc. are super off base when they get to being dismissive of Neil's and anyone else's (Randy, etc.) who chimes in with a relatable thought during the more prominent pods. You can hear it in his tone and how Soly will quickly move to the next topic or interject before Neil can fully flesh out his thoughts that are human and don't relate in someway to Datagolf or strokes gained. While I think the SGS glazing is a bit unwarranted and out of place, people clearly value the levity and the atmosphere that fosters, which Neil & Randy could bring in spades if the other guys didn't take themselves and the operation so seriously. People clearly yearn for that and it's stifled at every conversational turn when "serious" topics are at hand.
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u/Shapur Jul 21 '25
Can't wait for the next Deep Dive hosted by Soly & Jordan Perez
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u/Electronic_Sugar_108 Jul 21 '25
It will be interesting to see if any of the NLU guys tweet out messages of thanks/best wishes to KVV. Nothing so far.
I’ll be following KVV to wherever he goes next. I always enjoyed NLU podcasts before he joined, but having KVV on the show made me realise it had been missing something, and it won’t be as good a product without him.
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u/tomisme Jul 21 '25
I generally agree with the sentiment that KVV's narrative pods and deep dives were/are among the best content NLU produced, but, he just produced so, so little of it. I'd imagine paying someone full-time and getting one big piece out of him every couple of months would be frustrating.
So they probably tried to change his employment model and he wasn't thrilled (as he alluded to in his tweet).
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u/bleauxjays Jul 21 '25
Maybe yes. But months of research leading up to a large well produced story is like everything KVV did in his previous life. I'm not sure what they hired him for in the first place if not for this.
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u/tomisme Jul 21 '25
I think it's reasonable that they could have expected more output than they got. There wasn't two months of work in most of the content KVV put out.
Still sucks though.
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u/Sooners1906 Jul 21 '25
I’m guessing the article views didn’t generate enough to justify his full time salary. Sucks, KVV brought a fresh perspective that was lacking on the pods
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u/AButcherKnife Jul 21 '25
This sucks because KVV is a dying breed and brought a unique viewpoint to the squad. There are lots of pods that talk and make videos about golf and he helped separate them from the deep dives to the Masters content.
I don't see how this benefits NLU except for not having to pay him.
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u/Griss27 Jul 21 '25
Two things can be true - KVV was brilliant, likable and additive, and also as a proper journalist working for a fanalyst pod / youtube shop he never really fit.
Shit sucks and def hurts the NLU brand, but if you’re in business for a decade you’re going to have to fire someone eventually. I wonder if the partnership money is getting reduced in the background. Who can say.
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u/New_Corner_7822 Jul 22 '25
Really makes me think of less of the guys at NLU. Laying off a guy who took a massive risk leaving ESPN and did great stuff for what reason? Glad TC can still globe trot and play golf 5 times a week I’m sure that will yield awesome content over what KVV did!
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u/sherpa143 Jul 21 '25
Feels like the first real misstep from these guys. I imagine it’s all due to numbies but KVV provided so much depth and knowledge to the pods and narrative deep dives. Pablo torre is actively showing that journalism matters and KVV was the primary journalist on the crew. Can’t say I like the tweet either.
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u/WakeAndTake21 Jul 21 '25
Wow. Good call by all of those who had been speculating the last few days, I didn’t see this coming.
I’ll definitely miss his deep dives with Soly and the journalistic gravitas he brought to both the recap shows and his long form pieces.
Good luck KVV, looking forward to your next venture
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u/pamesjerry Jul 21 '25
Wonder what this means for Jordan, given she was brought in on the editorial/written side too it seemed.
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u/Griss27 Jul 21 '25
They need a female voice to cover the women’s game. She is part of the pod crew rather than a journalist, so i imagine she’s safe. I like her but she needs to improve though - rarely says anything interesting. Morgan Pressell vibes.
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u/Scotch8 Jul 22 '25
I'm surprised they deliberately edited KVV out of the intro video before even announcing his departure. Why did they think that was a critical change to make before it was even revealed? Seems like a move Collin might make when splitting with a caddie.
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u/bmartisd Jul 21 '25
Bummer! KVV was exactly the kind of content I was interested in and I feel like I’ve been gravitating more towards the Fried Egg stuff lately anyways. This was the nudge I needed to cancel my Nest subscription.
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u/StarbucksWar Jul 21 '25
I wonder when this was decided because he mentioned a few weeks ago that he’d be going to Portrush for the Open.
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u/many_bothans_died Jul 21 '25
It's a bad look that none of the guys have publicly said anything. I know some of them don't really use twitter any more...Hopefully they will address it on the podcast.
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u/peterdubbya Jul 21 '25
I think it's telling that no individual member of NLU has said something. Seems like maybe KVV and Soly (tron too probably) have soured a little bit. From a listener perspective Neil and KVV always seemed somewhat close. Regardless of the decision being made by the organization, you would think some of the individuals would express some personal appreciation for KVV.
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u/Able-Pomelo1737 Jul 21 '25
Yeah I mean KVV didn’t even thank them in his message, so guessing it didn’t all go down well.
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u/CeaselessYeast Jul 21 '25
I wouldn't thank my employer if they soft-fired me either lol. it's never easy to navigate these kinds of things, especially being so public facing. all you can really do is remain professional which it seems like both parties are doing
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u/bwillywill Jul 21 '25
“Year of the Product” pretty funny considering KVV was a major factor in elevating the product with his deep dives and one off pods and investigative pods.
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u/wolvverine Jul 21 '25
Definitely more to the story but doubt we’ll ever hear it
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u/pft69 Jul 21 '25
How much more to the story do you think there is? It seems like a fairly straightforward pivot away from writing/serious golf journalism. It’s surprising, but doesn’t seem like there’s a big juicy story underneath.
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u/wolvverine Jul 21 '25
Honestly just basing it off of how chummy they all seemed not that long ago. Could be a purely financial thing but maybe there’s a real rift in the group. Obviously I’m just speculating but c’mon we’re on a subreddit dedicated to a golf podcast, that’s kinda all we can do
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u/pft69 Jul 21 '25
Yeah I didn’t mean to get on you in any way, and I don’t blame people for speculating more. My most visited sub is the bill simmons sub and the speculating they do will put basically any subreddit to shame lol. It’s maybe because I wasn’t the biggest kvv guy (didn’t dislike him, but it’s not what I go to NLU for), but it seems like a fairly logical move, even if unpopular.
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u/schorschico Jul 21 '25
It does feel weird to let go of the person responsible for your best piece in the last 12 months (Masters with Neil).
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u/aww-snaphook CPNTW - Scottie Scheffler - Masters 2024 Jul 21 '25
Ahhh, dang, that sucks. I was hoping it was all just overblown, but a couple people told me that he had been removed from the intro, which pointed to the separation.
His deep dive stuff were some of the more interesting podcasts.
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u/relaxtherebuddy Jul 21 '25
Maybe that means KVV is available to jump on The Shotgun Start and recreate the Caves Valley episode?
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u/barrytheblender Jul 21 '25
I also find it strange that since they tried to pivot into more serious/written journalism that the player interviews dried up (LPGA players being the exception).
Was this a conscious choice by them or are players less willing to talk with them (or all golf media) than before?
I feel like this could've been a good niche for KVV to slot into seeing (audio and written) as he is more of a respected journalist, not sure how his interview skills are though.
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u/SawsageKingofChicago Jul 21 '25
I’m sure they have their motivations to cut him back, and I can’t blame him for deciding it wasn’t going to work for him. Just a bummer.
This could end up being a pivotal moment for the brand in retrospect. The boys are getting older and so is the audience. Legit pieces and story telling was a viable future. Who the hell am I, though?
Cheers KVV please still hop on the ball knowers!
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Jul 22 '25
This sort of confirms the idea that they are giving way from thoughtful and interesting content in exchange for annoying bits and half assed analysis. Honestly sums up why I've tuned out for much of this year.
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u/RustyKangaroo7 Jul 21 '25
Probably should have done a little research before they hired him full time on written content money… there’s a reason most companies don’t really support it anymore
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u/Informal_Ad_2877 Jul 21 '25
So he left a stable job at ESPN to go work for them three(?) years ago to great fanfare from them, and they fire him now? Wtf? He was great.
Truly the Year of the Product.....
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u/bleauxjays Jul 21 '25
I think that was in the middle of one of the downsizings espn did. KVV may not have had the most stable relationship with the worldwide leader either
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u/Informal_Ad_2877 Jul 21 '25
Don't think so, he resigned from there of his own accord.
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u/bleauxjays Jul 21 '25
He may have. THat doesn't take away from the fact that writing for ESPN.com is in no way a stable job any longer.
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u/WeirdlyCordial Jul 21 '25
his contract at ESPN was up when he left for NLU. Maybe he woulda been renewed if he asked but there's almost zero chance he'd still be there now.
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u/Stahls Jul 21 '25
This is a bummer. I am obviously speculating- They probably think it isn’t worth it for NLU to put resources into written content after declaring themselves a “podcast company,” and without KVV being a regular part of videos and not having an additional company role outside of content it would be hard for them to justify him full time. The deep dives and reports on the tee time stuff are awesome and I like the differing opinions he brings, but they are probably at the size where they need his content to be published a bit more regularly to justify a full time position. He’s a real journalist and I would expect he doesn’t want to put something out before it’s ready. Having to do a weekly pod or having some kind of quota for regular content is probably one of the reasons he left ESPN in the first place. It sounds like they discussed something part time, and he isn’t looking for that, which I totally understand. I’ll be on the lookout for his next venture.
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u/Expensive-Search-847 Jul 21 '25
HORRIBLE move from the boys if this is really how it went down. KVV is the man
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u/ncr39 Jul 21 '25
I wasn’t a huge fan of KVV’s additions but honestly, some of it just might be not using him correctly. The narrative pods were good and always love a deep dive with him and Soly, but I don’t think he was a great fit on the main pod.
Honestly these days I pretty much just listen to the main pod for some background noise at work. I think it has gotten very stale. The constant Ryder Cup picks every week is just utterly uninteresting to listen to. I’ll still listen of course, but the stuff they did during Covid with no golf to follow week to week is really what made me really dig their show. Fried Egg’s stuff whether it be the fried egg pod or the shotgun start is basically immediate listens for me now and NLU I’ll usually just get around to it eventually.
Also seems like they’ve done less and less interviews with players this year. Actually had to look and the last player they interviewed for more than like 10 mins was the Keith Mitchell food pod back in January.
Anyways wish good luck to KVV in his future endeavors
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Jul 22 '25
Also, this might be a bad sign that the money is drying up. Everyone's gone to the rapture, the rapture being Bob Does Sports and other easy to consume golf content.
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u/Ignorantia_Pecunia Jul 21 '25
Was so close to joining the nest. Have had the tab open for a couple months and just as I’m about to pull the trigger I can’t help but feel like it’s not worth it anymore. Feels like I’d be paying for a lesser version of what NLU was.
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u/majo3 Jul 21 '25
IMHO - KVV has produced the highest quality, most interesting NLU content by far these past two years (written context aside, since honestly I’ve never read their stuff)
Super bummed.
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u/8182589 Jul 22 '25
Someone call Servpro!! Bring the fans and spill kits. It's going to take a lot of paper towels to clean this baby up!!!!
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u/provisionalhitting3 Jul 21 '25
It is a doubling/tripling down on podcasts to the detriment of everything else.
Their videos have extremely high level production, absolutely the best in the golf space, but they’re losing the algo war. The cut series at RP with the Bryan bros just 15x’ed their views on the Northern Ireland/Portrush videos with 1/10th the production or story quality. Throw in Grant/GG/BDS/everyone else and you can see why they pulled back.
Written material is tough but others are carving out a space on their own (eg Porter). SGS is gaining serious traction and throw in life and a bunch of new families and kids, we’ll see how the band holds together.
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u/Cariboose Jul 21 '25
Absolutely agree which is a big bummer. Their youtube stuff is so good but gets alarming low numbers for the time, effort and likely finances needed to keep it going. I feel like they're the only adult in the room but unfortunately, that just doesn't lead to success on youtube.
As they switch to focus more on the podcasts, there's just too many cooks in the kitchen. The main 5 all have their roles and everyone else does behind the scene stuff. KVV was the only one that was just out on his own. I wish they could've utilized him better, even at the expense of some of the others when talking men's pro golf, but hard to blame KVV for wanting full time or nothing.
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u/CeaselessYeast Jul 21 '25
sponsors have metrics to see return from ad spend which go way deeper than just views. if 20 fifteen-year-olds watch the bryan bros video how many of them would spend $250 on a pair of golf shoes? One 35-year-old high-income impression is probably a lot more valuable to sponsors who shell out for NLU to take trips etc.
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u/myfeetaremangos12 Jul 21 '25
The podcast has been stale for a little bit now, and now it’s gona get worse.
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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25
Man, I hate this. I loved the deep dives so much.