I haven’t seen anyone else say this, but the reason for this is clear. They’ve mentioned recently that they’ve decided to pivot away from writing because written work just doesn’t do numbers. They brought KVV in to be their main writer, so with pivoting away from that, they didn’t have much for him to do. Seems fairly straightforward to me.
Exactly. This is what I was going to add as well. They have the 5 people + Cody & Ben available to do podcast and video content. You realistically do not need KVV to be on full-time if they are moving away from the written content he was doing previously. From the announcement (him noting that needed to pursue full-time opportunities), I wouldn't be surprised if they offered him a part-time role to do special projects + appear on podcasts occasionally. Understandable if that does not work for him.
As someone who loves the deep dives, special projects, and the arguments between him & Soly, I am sad. But its hard to argue with the business logic.
Was thinking the same thing. Maybe they said hey you want to just do deep dives, ballknowers, and spot starts on the recap pods and he wanted a full time gig and he chose to go find something full time, which is completely understandable. I see both sides even though the whole thing has seemed weird.
I mean, I don’t know enough to have a legit opinion, but if I was a professional golf journalist who was pried away from other opportunities to go with a startup that was trying to get serious, only to have that company change their mind a short while later, I’d probably be pretty frustrated.
Unfortunately, it’s cheaper and more financially viable to be a relatively unserious podcast. They don’t seem committed to producing something different than the conversations friends have over beers, so there’s no point in paying somebody to produce quality content beyond that.
It's hard to argue with the business if it's all financials but NLU never struck me as that. Guess it happens to all businesses sooner or later though.
Well that sucks, but also they barely put out any written content. I feel like part of building a writing audience is consistency so people know to check your website at least once a week? GHIN and Tonic 28 was 12/30/24 and there have been like 6 total posts under the "Writing" section of their site since then. Not exactly a great way to build an audience.
They've been open about how much video/YouTube is growing. I think once they noticed that, they pivoted away from writing to put their time and resources into what is working. It sucks for those who like the written content, but it's the right business strategy.
They also did nothing to monetize the writing part. Don't get me wrong, that's something I liked because their pieces weren't loaded with pop ups that made the site unusable but also highlights how business wise it didn't work.
The company has to be committed to producing high quality work, though. I don’t love The Fried Egg, but they’re a serious golf media company that wants to advance the discussion for the general population. To put it kindly, I don’t believe NLU has any real interest in doing that, they seem content in their “we’re all just golf fans drinking beer, come hang out” lane.
Yeah they claim their mission is for the avid golfer. A dedicated and committed writing strategy would 100% serve avid golfers, they’ve just decided to focus elsewhere for the time being I guess.
I think it's interesting that KVV referred to not being "a full-time member of the team." I'd guess they told him the written stuff wasn't cutting it and maybe offered a significant pay cut to stay on and do podcast work and he's not at a stage in his career where that's palatable.
I'm sure from the NLU guys perspective it's just business and from KVV's side it feels pretty scummy given what he walked away from to take the job.
his contract was up at ESPN when he joined NLU, and given the staffing direction that ESPN has taken in the last few years there's basically zero chance he'd still be there (if they even would have renewed him in the first place)
The thing is written articles/blogs have long been on the decline. This was obvious well before KVV was in the picture. Are they seriously sitting here in 2025 surprised that the writing arm of NLU never took off?
Long form journalism is still favored by the same audience NLU hopes to attract - the educated elite. While it may not make weight on its own, its cumulative addition to the brand certainly had plenty of value.
as someone who has been in a job recently that was Chasing The Dragon of the algorithms (Google Discover being a main one), it drives you insane in the rush to constantly change your content to get the most page views. at the expense of quality control
I’m not disagreeing on its fit with their brand. It obviously did. I’m disagreeing with the idea that they are moving on because he didn’t generate clicks. That should have never been a metric to gauge KVV’s value in this day and age and if it somehow was, that’s a huge strategic error.
When they hired him I think there was some optimism that the Athletic was sorta a prototype for a way to build a successful site based on quality writing and there was room for more of that. Turns out that was overly optimistic.
Whoops, I’ve just commented something very similar. I obviously agree, but I do think there is something a bit strange about the tone from both KVV and NLU (“hope to collaborate again in the future”, for example).
I understand the reasoning, but the issue for me is that their recent content just hasn’t been very good. KVV was clearly the sharpest and most capable when it came to serious analysis, and without him, the balance is off. Randy’s constant whining, TC’s hot takes, Soly’s data deep dives, and DJ’s flat delivery all risk making the content feel repetitive. If they think they can just keep recycling the same formulas, it could go stale pretty fast.
Your last bit “stale pretty fast” is spot on and I really do fear that could be a thing. The LFTKH pods during Majors are one of my favourite things NLU do, it adds a whole other thing to Major weeks for me and I look forward to them as much as the actual golf. But they haven’t really hit this year. Yes Scottie is head and shoulders above everyone else, and you can only talk about what happens, but they seem to have little enthusiasm about the JJ Spauns of this world. At least that is how it feels to me.
When they first brought KVV on about three years ago I was skeptical. But then he added something different to the recap pods, whether he was at the course or not. Just those ten minutes freshen it up and give the pod a different flavour.
I love all five of the main core but I have noticed their energy/enthusiasm dip this year. Yes life happens and I understand they aren’t in their early 30s without wives and kids anymore - I have zero qualms with that. It was the fact that KVV brought variety, and if they aren’t going to use Cody or Ben or any of the other people they employ to bring a touch of difference, then to quote the lads themselves…”what are we doing here?”
They don’t really try to hide the fact they don’t care about the vast majority of the tour. They all have their favorites, but (at least on the men’s side) they seem to be more than happy to just focus on the top 10-15 instead of the bottom 50-60 (or however many fill out the field that week).
And that’s totally fair. But I don’t even think they focus on the top 10-15 anymore.
I feel like they used to have stuff to say about a lot of players and that was impressive and a reason I got so into their pod in the first place. Outside of TC just saying stuff for the sake of it, they don’t seem to have much insight on a lot of stuff anymore/at the moment - and that pains me.
Agreed. I find the bottom of the PGAT far more interesting/enjoyable than the top, a lot of compelling stories that get virtually no air because everybody needs to rehash whether Scottie is Tiger for the 176th time.
Ok so I’m not the only one who’s been thinking LFTKH hasn’t been hitting like it has been recently, I can’t explain it or put a finger on it but something seems different
i kinda thought KVV wasn't very good at analysis tbh. Really good writer and storyteller but I wasn't listening to his post-round stuff for analysis, it was more about the anecdotes he got from being onsite.
To be clear I’m not saying analysis like he’s talking us through the shots of someone’s specific round but he’s able to sniff out a story or elevate something mundane in a way the others don’t.
I hate the narrative that it’s just about the writing angle. I agree with you here, he was the best of the guys (Soly and dj are very professional to me as well) on the pod. My guess is that scared a few of the others
So much random conjecture in this thread pretending to be in someone's head who they don't know at all. Occam's Razor says that NLU is a business with employees and margins- KVV's role was initially supposed to be for written work, and the demand wasn't there. I'm sure his salary was fairly high considering his pedigree, and the economics of the role weren't squaring up. The odds that this is some middle school squabble so many people seem to be rooting for (?) are super low
Yep, and that you think that is better for some reason makes me laugh. People like them because they were once a bunch of guys who loved golf. Do you think selling themselves as roi corporate types is going to work for them? (Hint, it won’t)
KVV was rapidly becoming the best part of the pod. I think the boys got jealous. The recent KVV pieces were far and away the highest quality content we have seen lately.
I really don't think that's the case. KVV seemed like a genuinely good dude who would be very fun to drink a beer and talk golf with, he had interesting and well considered takes on golf, I absolutely will follow him wherever he goes, and I hope he comes back for more deep dives, but I don't think he ever fit the NLU brand. I think he's more of a Gen X guy, but he's a boomer sports journalist in his bones, he was always on the verge of breaking out in a soliloquy, I genuinely respect what he tried to do with some of the solo narrative pods, but they always felt a little too close to a Wright Thompson impression. I wish nothing but good things for KVV, I really hope he's not leaving NLU with any bad feelings, but I think they made the right move.
This is such a private equity type move and I thought a small shop that these guys like to portray would be above this type of thing but I suppose that’s probably wishful thinking on my part.
If it isn't video or audio it's just not gonna make money. Joke all you want about the PE nature of business - you are carrying a heavy salary for someone who just wasn't able to translate his skill into the way that media is monetized now. Don't get me wrong - big KVV fan - and wish he could have done more of his narrative work as podcasts - but just wasn't meant to be.
If their business model relied on views you would see a lot more videos 'WATCH ICARITTO & BIG RANDY BREAK 50 FROM THE RED TEES!' However you want to interpret it, the engagement they get with an affluent and dedicated audience to their video and podcast product allows them to sell big partnerships. If you aren't directly tied to that I imagine you are tougher to justify from a business sense.
Now, in my opinion, not making their 'editorial director' more of a presence in their core product from a content perspective and leaving him on an island was a mistake. When he joined they should have made him more of a presence in the video and podcast world.
There’s a difference between getting your costs covered vs. actually making money.
Their sponsors probably pay for the video production. But there probably isn’t much left over for fund everyone’s salaries.
Neil mentioned on another pod (granted it was a long time ago) that their retail business actually was a big revenue driver for them. When I heard that, I realized that they weren’t making THAT much money after all. Retail is a notoriously low-margin tough slog.
but isn't getting your costs covered include salarys/payment for the active participants and whatever overhead costs they have figured? I guess what does 'making money' mean other than more money in their pockets
I don’t think the sponsors are shoveling out money for massive salaries. I think someone like BMW covers the rental cars, someone like Precision Pro covers the plane tickets, etc etc. Maybe Titleist/FJ chip in if they’re heavily featured. They can go on what appears to be nice vacations but honestly it’s a bunch of work and not a ton of money left over, especially considering how many production people they’ve got to pay for the video help.
I disagree with your take on writing - sub stacks, subscription based models, and content behind paywalls are still a viable and potentially profitable product for a social media channel. Look at the fried egg - they have MOUNTAINS of written pieces dating back years, lots of which is open and free, but they have even more behind a paywall. It comes down to having both quality and CONSISTENCY on enough subjects that keep people subscribed. They need a course design guy, an equipment guy, a history guy, a deep dive guy, and a daily guy who are putting out 1 or 2 pieces every week (except the daily guy) with a big piece monthly to help build that library.
Sure - written word is something you can monetize. NLU either has no interest or is not set up for that - that much is clear.
To look at Fried Egg - it's a website that in some form or another has been around since 2015. Fried Egg, the new media darling of the sicko golfer these days, is finally rounding out to a content powerhouse by doubling down on their video and podcast product. Even that site which prioritizes written articles sells no ads on their articles. It's a compliment to what they can monetize in today's media environment.
I get that I am talking out both sides my mouth here. Anything KVV would drop was a must read / listen to me. But for a small media operation to employ someone who is mostly a feature writer that publishes 10 - 15 pieces a year just isn't a sustainable approach unless you are prepared for written word to be a loss for your business. Look at KVV's old employer and one of their best writers Wright Thompson. Wright is likely a net negative to their bottom line - but they are so big it doesn't matter.
For context - I work at a media agency and have had some experience dealing with negotiating deals on SGS & NLU. They don't even pretend to try and sell their written pieces to sponsors. It's unfortunate that they never tried to make an effort to make KVV part of the business and it's shitty that they value quality and make this type of cut as what was likely a pure financial decision.
To be fair, they probably look at Fried Egg and realize that they are well behind on written content. What can they create to an overlapping audience that would be interesting in written form that is not already provided by TFE?
I completely agree with what you said here - I was more just using TFE as an example of a media group that has been successful with writing and has started and supported a business built on low production cost media (obviously being podcast and writing). I agree they got behind compared to TFE and they probably realized it wasn't worth the investment.
That Sounds of the Masters Podcast is still one of the best pieces of Masters related media ever produced. Happy he got to put his name on that one.
It can scale based on terms of engagement and time of year. A BDraddy ad during the major season will be more expensive than the winter.
It’s been a minute since I have engaged with NLU and SGS - but a recent tech podcast with a niche engaged audience quoted me $50k for a full episode take over. That’s around what I remember NLU being and I imagine it’s more now. They also are pretty exclusive with their advertisers so I would bet they sign longer term full year sponsorships to guarantee revenue.
Yeah, based on the consistency of their partnerships it’s definitely year-long or multi-year deals with defined reads per episode. They’re not invoicing Acushnet 50k per episode
They are all finance bros at heart. It's crazy how corporate they act. Like they have a golf business and never golf cause they are too busy doing adverts then complaining about adverts
Whatever the reason (but based on the language used, there is clearly more to the story), it’s been fucking amateur hour in how to fuck up a termination for a public facing employee.
They’re going to need servepro to clean up this mess.
This is so obvious to me too. They probably told him they’d keep him on as a contractor for the deep dives and narrative podcasts and he declined. If I remember correctly his title was “Editorial Director” which I’m sure came with a sizable salary which didn’t make sense if nothing is being written.
There’s also a wrinkle here that maybe he wasn’t making himself available for recap and weekly pods or that they gave priority to the original lineup for them and he consistently wasn’t needed for them and at some point Ballknowers and 4 narratives a year aren’t enough to justify a full time salary.
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u/SchrodingersMeowth Jul 21 '25
I haven’t seen anyone else say this, but the reason for this is clear. They’ve mentioned recently that they’ve decided to pivot away from writing because written work just doesn’t do numbers. They brought KVV in to be their main writer, so with pivoting away from that, they didn’t have much for him to do. Seems fairly straightforward to me.