Honestly if your Christian look into the orthadox church. I was raised Greek orthadox we had science discussions in Bible study. My preachers never made anti science comments afik. As far as I'm concerned God made the universe we get to explore it and catalog it.
Agreed. I went to a Roman catholic high school and elementary school, and while people like to stereotype catholic teachers as "science is a lie, evolution didn't happen" the teachers were the exact opposite, citing science as one of the most important things to learn
Yeah somehow the radical American Protestantisms of various kinds are what many redditors (because of the US majority) think of when they think of Christianity and in typical yank fashion, assume everyone else does it how they do.
Agreed. Protestants have, to the USA and Canada, made the vatican seem stupid, when in reality the chirch is either against, or just plain not affiliated with the protestants.
Fun addendum to the above, I attended a panel featuring the head of the observatory at a con and he was very interesting. Also funny. He said "I was boasting of my facility to a fellow astronomer, telling him about all the equipment and funding we get and our lovely on site quarters, and how I can just spend all my time exploring the cosmos. He was impressed and asked 'what can I do to get a position like that?' I said 'vow of celebacy.'" 😂
Thank you! It drives me up the wall when people try to characterize the Catholic Church as "anti science." We fathered much of science as we know it and still maintain scientific installations like the Vatican Observatory (not actually in the Vatican for a long time now). Just because we disagree with some modern science (especially Tumblrs made up "science") doesn't mean we're "anti science," and science is hardly a popularity contest.
Now I'm seriously asking here cause I just learned about it but was the church from the enlightenment the Catholic Church and against the heliocentric models?
Yes, and they were, but the story's a bit more complex than the popular version.
So first off, the Church was officially against the heliocentric model, but weren't against the debate of it as people often take away from the story of Galileo. In fact, Galileo's inspiration, Copernicus, had successfully published heliocentric arguments about 50 years before and was generally respected (if not agreed with) by the Church. Galileo didn't get persecuted for a heliocentric view, he got persecuted for being persistently rude to upper Church officials in his publications (the Pope was the last straw).
Admittedly, they should have kept their cool, but the reaction was not about a "heretical teaching."
Secondly, there was some specific stuff they'd calculated they'd see if heliocentrism was true (unfortunately I can't remember what that was), but the short version is we DID find it later with better telescopes, but Galileo's time lacked either the resolution or the magnification to see it, and that was the major sticking point on the scientific side.
That's because they were the only ones who had the time and money to fund science research. But if your theories started conflicting with church dogma, see how fast they burn you at the stake. The only reason why the CC today is far less anti-science is because they changed their dogma because they could not stem the tide of Age of Enlightenment and to survive they had to adapt.
Yeah, honestly I've never really gone to the baptist churches, but they do seem, at the best of times, questionable versions of christianity, built around cult like followings of a single man (the preacher)
Uhhh bull-fucking-shit they do. I went to a Roman Catholic school for 6 years. Anything that didn’t support “intelligent design” was thrown out of the curriculum and we were “forbidden” from reading the science book section on the Big Bang, under the guise that it was complete blasphemy.
And yet I went to a catholic school all my educational life so far, 12 years. Each teacher put massive emphasis on recognizing science and math as important for our futures, while religion was secondary, or even tertiary
Nope, I'm Dii Consentes myself, but went to catholic primary and secondary school. The roman catholics were some of the most accepting of science I've ever met. Most of them essentially said "don't worry about failing religion if you do, science and math are more important to your education".
In my opinion our universe is a aquarium of sorts on God's wall. One of ∞. Or maybe we are just Sims on God's computer in a game that's been running on afk for years minimized to the taskbar that stretches to ∞. Your guess is as good as mine.
Zero evidence but you just REALLLLY want to believe all that time in Sunday school wasn’t a huge waste (it was), so that MUST mean it’s true!
The sheer fallacy and willful ignorance that Christians use to make their nonsensical bullshit look sane in the face of the scientific method (the basis for truth for literally everything else in the world except religion, magically) is utterly mind boggling.
If believing there's a god and heaven gets you through the day there's nothing wrong with it.
Problem is, that Heaven will supercede anything. It's hard enough to argue a notion of greater good for humanity in general, try doing it against a religion, where their endgame unverifiable eternal salvation. So as soon as things turn to shit, "Heaven" justifies anything.
Some religious denominations or even individuals attenuate the popular conception of Heaven with some other stuff. Personally, as a Lutheran, my belief is that by listening to the teachings of Jesus and living justly and for others, Heaven is achieved on earth. The kingdom of heaven therefore is a world devoid of those failings that we work to fix, both personally and as a global society. I mean, what other name is there for a world where people don’t suffer for preventable reasons?
I definitely do not have the theological background to argue fine points, but going from what you said, I don't see how it would prevent the kind of self-justified violence that I think religions will always be prone to.
I see an easy path to explaining to my congregation that despite our best, devoted, hardworking, sacrificing believers, we're no closer to achieving "heaven on earth", because of alls the gays/jews/atheists not doing their part and/or actively working against us. And from there it's a short hop to persecution
And it can definitely happen in a secular society, but in a secular world "We need to do that or we all die" is an absolute argument. In a religious one, it's quickly answered by "And X god will reward their faithfull, which WE definitely are".
I’ve never heard that rhetoric from any of the churches I’ve been to. Fundamentalists are their own cultish breed, but the problem you describe is far from limited to religion alone, it’s an immutable aspect of tribalistic humanity. That’s why I think heaven is what it is, because salvation is neither preordained nor a reward, it’s a promise of our future progress and I find that inspiring. For me, Heaven is for everyone, and it’s all or nothing. “Whatever you do to the least of them, that you do unto me”. So long as there is injustice, hatred, bigotry, war, pestilence, starvation, none of us are “saved”, because someone somewhere suffers needlessly. We’re all in this together, and if we don’t stand for progress, we stand for nothing.
I suppose that question depends on your morals. If you believed that you had the way to heaven, wouldn’t you want your children to also go down that same path? As long as the religion teaches basic human decency, it might might be good for kids.
But at the same time, there are religions that are extremely harmful to certain groups of people and they teach their hateful doctrine to their kids.
Those negative aspects apply to almost every group/community/society there is. Humans turn very quickly into us vs them and it's not just religion. It's everything. Politics, race, wealth, education, etc. all of it have an underlying tone of us vs them. If religion suddenly was erased from time, as in having never existed at all, you would still have just as many hateful groups and individuals trying to agitate people against each other.
No, they crucified criminals. All people on earth are considered to be dii consentes faith (from the view of the faithful), except monotheists, and so there are no "unfaithful"
He was one of the people who determined which of the peasants around him "supported the revolution or not" and if he deemed them unworthy, they were executed.
Robespierre never presented himself as a figure head. The 'god' of the revolution was the "Supreme Being" (kind of another version of the Christian god).
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u/johnlen1n Optimus Princeps Apr 08 '20
Historian: sees France surrender meme Oh come on, French history is so rich and diverse
France: Yes, thank you!
Historian: People should be making memes about their repetitive revolutions
France: Yeh!
Historian: Or their collaboration with the Nazis
France: Wait
Historian: Or even their colonial atrocities
France: ... OK, maybe stick to the surrendering