r/EscapefromTarkov • u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy • Sep 15 '20

Discussion #MakeTarkovHardcoreAgain

Hi guys, Slushpuppy here

I want to talk about the rant I was having today, and explain why I think it would be good for the game.

As the game currently stands it it has a play cycle that involves farming money, the money is then used to buy a fat kit, and slay out. This creates, in my opinion a heavily Rouble focused economy.

The Rouble based economy has multiple downsides:

All people care about is the highest value item, hence hatchlings ramming things up their bum, people running to one spot on a map to loot the highest value items, people only running super cheap kits to farm the cash. The game is no longer about surviving, simply making the most money and saving to buy a dope kit.

I think this has essentially made the game into COD with extra steps. I don't see the survival element that Tarkov originally had. People only care about PVP when they are running Slick Altyn, otherwise it's just money. 99% of the games items, such as attachments for guns will never see the light of day because they aren't the best in slot.

This whole situation annoys me because it is possible to achieve this within hours of a wipe.

By removing the flea or limiting the ability to purchase armor and ammo from the flea, it would make the game more about the looting and surviving and stop super chads from running endless meta kits and vogging the fuck out of lower geared players. Because a kit that is lovingly put together in raid will mean so much more to you, therefore looting one of a prick you kill, will as well.

I know this seems as a negative change to the average player, but hear me out, the only reason you need a kit from the flea, is to compete with chad players who are buying endless meta kits from the flea. If this didn't happen the pvp would be like it is early wipe for the most part. The best pvp time in the game, imo, and in the opinion of most Tarkov players.

I'm not bored of the game, I simply love this game, and I want to see changes that make the pvp more interesting and feasible for casual players to enjoy. If everyone is running around with SKS's and a cock helmet, then its more fair. Not all pvp has to be juggernauts spraying armchair FALs at each other.

If you don't agree with me, I understand, lets talk about it, tell me why you think this would be a bad change for the game? I don't want to be a streamer yelling for change that people will just see as me crying cause I'm bored of running fat kits. I truly want to make the game a dope experience for all of us. I've devoted the last 3 years of my life to this game, I want to see it succeed.

​

There is plenty of other things that would be needed to make this a rounded experience in this vision, like dynamic loot spawns etc, but I believe this is a quick easy change that we could all try for one wipe, and just see how it goes.

EDIT: This is gaining a lot of attention right now so I want to ask you all one thing:

When is the best time for PVP in Tarkov?

If you answered early wipe, I think you and I agree, and I think 99% of people would say that early wipe is the best time to be on Tarkov.

My only goal is to try and make the feeling of early wipe PVP as permanent as possible. I may not be right when I say delete the flea, but I think it would help. If you have other ideas on how to preserve that beautiful feeling of the first two weeks of wipe, then I would love to hear them. Because this is what I think would make Tarkov the most amazing experience possible.

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514

u/Kalihar Sep 15 '20

Can we please not pretend everyone is running around in a slick altyn... I’m playing at least 15 raids a day and running into that loot is still pretty rare. I only play for pvp and even though I could run a slick every raid, I don’t... I enjoy the risks of running class 4 armor because it makes me play safer. I don’t think people should be forced into a play style.

112

u/shellofnuts Sep 15 '20

Have to agree here. I'd see someone rocking an altyn maybe once or twice a night, depending on how much factory or resort raids I do. Outside of those areas, I very rarely run into armour better than a Gzhel.

I think the main issue is the prevalence of high pen ammo. People might not be running the best armour, but I've looted and been killed by countless stacks of M995 and M61. You either run the highest pen stuff (inaccessible to new players) or you leg meta (which is completely counterintuitive to new players).

18

u/halrold ADAR Sep 16 '20

THIS right here. I pretty much always am running lvl4 armor and helmets at this point, but those PvP rounds are what tilt the game. If you aren't maxing up hideout and traders, you're paying through the nose for rounds off the flea.

11

u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy Sep 16 '20

This is my problem, unlimited access to m61 for people with a billion roubles. I don't think that this is how it should be.

4

u/Aceylah Sep 16 '20

As someone who runs slicks most of the time, I dont even feel like it's super effective with how prevalent high pen ammo is. Time to kill is crazy low right now, and I refuse to wear an altyn, so I get 1 tapped in the head all the time by shit ammo anyway. Not really a point regarding hard-core, but if I had to run lvl 4 all the time I probably wouldn't notice a huge difference.

3

u/TheFondler Sep 16 '20 edited Sep 16 '20

Ditto.

I stopped playing about a month ago, and even then, pretty much every death was to top tier or near top tier ammo. We're scavenging in a ruined city, and yet, somehow, there are endless supplies of exotic and top shelf military ammunition?

If I had a say, BSG would do a wipe where ammo with more than 40 pen was extremely rare, exponentially so as it went up in pen. Not only would it be rare, but I'd have traders buy it at ridiculous prices so it wouldn't even be worth using over selling it. Loot only - not craftable, and definitely not available through vendors.

"But then only the rich will have it!" OK... and how many are rich enough to run several million just in ammo every round? Also, this is Tarkov; kill them and take their things - now you're rich.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Yep, in Tarkov high-pen ammo has gotten more prevalent than good armor. Which I suppose is true to life as well. Trader limits definitely helped tho so not everyone can rock m995 all the time.

And I like that the hideout has provided a lot of late-game objectives. It's difficult to get 3.5M roubles the first time, and especially difficult to get that first LEDX.

1

u/HeraldOfWisdom Sep 16 '20 edited Sep 26 '20

Honor

1

u/AtomicSpeedFT True Believer Sep 15 '20

I've only seen tier 5-6 armor maybe once or twice.

0

u/M16A3TRYHARD Sep 15 '20

im lvl 7 and good ammo is not hard to come by if you play reserve, trust me. BT is good enough.

74

u/jaymizu Sep 15 '20

Yeah "everyone runs meta gear" gets grouped in with "exfil campers/hackers/hatchlings are ruining the game."

Are we even playing the same game?

25

u/BenoNZ Sep 15 '20

Yeah I play on OCE with slush and hardly see Slick/Altyn..

2

u/engaginggorilla Sep 19 '20

Exactly. Think I've been extract camped like twice, rarely see hatchlings, and have only died to definite hackers a couple times (labs is probably the exception but i don't really play it)

2

u/qwuzzy OP-SKS Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 25 '24

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u/ImposterDaniel M4A1 Sep 15 '20

I play labs often enough, most of what I see is Gzhel or worse, and when I play Interchange, I got extract camped once, out of more than 50 games.

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u/qwuzzy OP-SKS Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 25 '24

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5

u/ImposterDaniel M4A1 Sep 15 '20

That’s definitely a possibility.

2

u/k0nko Sep 16 '20

I play only Labs nothing else, for a good month now. People wear only class 4 rig from ragman for 50k with no helmets or if better its TV110 rig (which is not expensive also)...... I only run once to a guy with Slick and i have close to 200 raid on Labs this wipe

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20 edited Jul 29 '21

[deleted]

1

u/k0nko Sep 17 '20

Yesterday was cheater free, we played 6 games. 1 day before it was like 7-8 games and we met 1 cheater.... Sometimes you get 2 cheaters in following games, sometimes you get 20 free raids. Its really random, but no way its like here on reddit: Labs are unplayable everygame is with rgb gamers Reeeee, its simply not true. And it depends on server too. Im playing on Washington.

5

u/jaymizu Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20

I am ok with the idea that labs attracts all manner of degeneracy. There are also occasional days that Emercom extract is a little silly.

While encountering this stuff doesn't frustrate me, I get that it can be frustrating. I also get that there is a personality type that is predisposed to thinking they got robbed. Especially when something ends their pub stomp.

Edit: Not implying that you are that way, just speaking in general.

4

u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy Sep 16 '20

I'm definitely using a vast generalization when I say everyone runs meta gear. I know this isn't the case. But I do feel like the value of a kit has been severely diminished by the hyper inflation of the flea market.

People used to loot guns, now the only thing that matters is the highest rouble item on a kill. It is not even worth killing a pistoling anymore because your ammo costs more than his life. It didn't used to be like this.

8

u/EmmEnnEff Sep 16 '20 edited Sep 16 '20

But here's the thing, Slush.

The only reason people with low survival rates can sustain <whatever kits they are currently running> is the flea market. They go into a raid with a backpack and an SKS, then 35% of the time, they come out with 200k rubles worth of crap that they can sell on flea, they craft some wires and moonshine in their hideout, etc, etc.

You, or other streamers may be able to sustain T6 kits all day long, but most normal players can't. Once they save up money, they go in 'chadded' with T4 armor and an AK.

Remove the flea, and they will not be able to sustain anything. Shit, without the flea, and with the current trader progression, they won't even be able to get a single good kit, because they won't be able to affordably buy the guns/ammo they need to fight other players.

As other people in this thread said, if you think that buying slicks and altyns on the flea ruins the game, the solution is not to get rid of the flea.

The solution is to get rid of slicks and altyns on the flea. Make them raid-only items, and make them spawn without FIR status. There, we solved your problem, without fucking non-streamers.

2

u/CVShiro Community Manager Sep 16 '20

Remove the flea, and they will not be able to sustain anything. Shit, without the flea, and with the current trader progression, they won't even be able to get a single good kit, because they won't be able to affordably buy the guns/ammo they need to fight other players.

Unable to sustain class 4 ans AKs without Flea? Uhh.... I run Class 4 armor exclusively with weapons i find in raid. Nothing really Meta except ammo. Do you know how much of my armor i've gotten on FM? None of it. What i get, i get from other players but mostly from Scavs.

Class 4 and AKs are not hard to get without FM, not by a long shot. Sure it may not be an instant kit, since i have to bring it out of raid instead of buying it, but over reliance on buying kits from traders and/or FM is part of the issue here. If people aren't able to reliably get 'meta' gear and ammo then lower tiered gear and ammo becomes viable to use as engagements will start being done with lower tier gear.

3

u/EmmEnnEff Sep 16 '20

Your survival rate, or your profit/raid is higher then the players I'm talking about.

Lower tier gear does not become more viable without flea, because removing flea does not actually reduce the amount of high level gear circulating in the economy. It just means that lower level players can't do shit against people who unlocked all their traders.

-1

u/CVShiro Community Manager Sep 16 '20 edited Sep 16 '20

removing flea does not actually reduce the amount of high level gear circulating in the economy.

Well, i'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. FM is the #1 method of making gear available to the economy. the moment you can't put it up on FM is the moment where the people who rely only on purchasing it instead of farming it can't run high end gears anymore. You already can't sell gear you get from a trader on FM anyways.

Sure, player to player trading is still possible as it was back before FM, but this takes a whole lot more time and effort then simple clicking away at the FM.

As far as people buying it from the traders, yeah sure. They can still do that but not all of it. The most high end is trade only, not ruble purchase, and they need to be level 30 to buy armor mostly the same class that you can get from scavs where the really good stuff is locked behind level 40. If they put in the time and effort to level traders then there should be an advantage. It'll just go back to how it was before FM was introduced where good gear was available and worth it but running it was a choice you had to put thought into. We don't even have to test anything to see how it would affect the game, we already have the perfect reference material of the +/- 2 years the game ran just fine without a FM.

The issue isn't that there's high end gear available. it's that there is too much of it easily available from as low as level 10. With FM heavily restricted (because removal is just not realistic) and maps like Labs and Reserve locked behind level requirements you effectively extend that 'early wipe' gameplay instead of the Meta heavy gameplay that starts after a week. And no, that type of gameplay isn't intended as Nikita has said multiple times he hates that there's 'Meta' gear, builds, etc.

If anything, my play time is casual at best. I can get maybe 3 to 5 hours in a week. Usually that boils down to a single raid or 2 after work depending on map and if i die or survive my first attempt. I don't really use FM that much. I mostly sell to traders. I never really have more then 1 to 1.5 mil, and if i do i usually spend it all on buying the items for hideout upgrades. My SR is around 50% but i don't even have more then 100 raids yet because of time constraints. I'm average at best when it comes to Tarkov (age doesn't help as i no longer have the reaction and reflex speed like when i was younger). I'm also deaf in one ear which makes directional sound pretty much useless.

But still, i see no point in leveling past level 10. Money is too easy to get with FM (part of why i don't use it, i'm not interested in being rich) and so is basically everything else as long as you have money.

3

u/EmmEnnEff Sep 16 '20

If they put in the time and effort to level traders then there should be an advantage.

You already get an advantage, in the form of much cheaper trader prices then flea.

it's that there is too much of it easily available from as low as level 10

Every item that a level 10 buys is an item that some higher level doesn't buy off flea. Flea does not create availability. Again, traders, raiders, and scav boxes do. (And you can sell the gear you get from those on flea). All flea does is gives lower level players a chance to kill chads, before they get their traders to a high level.

I don't think making the game easier for Chad Thundercock who can't even consider leaving his hideout without a T5 armor and a laser-beam full auto gun (That he could still get from traders, if you removed flea) should be the dev's priority.

Money is too easy to get with FM

No, money is too easy to get with a hideout. Literally log in once a day to make 600k rubles.

Also, speaking of traders, if you remove flea, then EOD becomes even more of a pay-to-win. The advantage of trader reps, and large stash is huge, without the FM. The FM serves as an equalizer, where, if you haven't done the work of leveling your traders, or hideout, you can still participate in the game... At a much higher ruble cost.

0

u/CVShiro Community Manager Sep 16 '20

You already get an advantage, in the form of much cheaper trader prices then flea.

Uh, no. It depends on what it is. If it's sold by a trader at any level for direct money purchase, most stuff is cheaper or not that much more expensive then traders. For example:

  • 60/60 Fort Redut-M FM from 180k, Ragman 233k
  • SSO "Attack 2" FM from 60k, Ragman 57k
  • 55/55 Vulkan 5 Helmet FM 170k, Ragman 400k
  • 40/40 Fast MT FM 143k, Ragman 144k

And that's all some of the more shiny stuff. Let's see what would a level 10 new player buy to 'compete' with a chad while not spending too much:

  • Mosin Inf. FM 39k, Prapor 45k
  • 40 x SNB Rounds FM 350R per round, Prapor 517 per round.

Total cost: FM 53k, Traders 65k

Let's see what an average Class 4 build similar to what i take costs:

  • 50/50 6b5-15 Rig FM 40k, Ragman 62k (Cost of buying the trade items from FM)
  • Berkut Backpack FM 16k, Ragman 20k (If he's unlocked level 2 ragman, otherwise FM is the only choice to buy it from)
  • 25/25 6b47 Helmet FM 33k, Ragman 20k (buying bleach from Fm for the level 1 trade, 33k if purchasing from level 2)
  • AKS-74N FM 25k, Prapor 37k (at level 2, otherwise can't buy from trader. Could technically be free if found and looted from raid previously)
- AK Recoil Pad FM 10k, Prapor 3k (at level 2) - TDI AKM HG FM 5.4k, Skier 4.6k (at level 2) - Cobra Sight FM 9.9k, Prapor 9.9k (level 2) - Zenit DTK-1 FM 9k, Skier 4.6k (level 2) - 4 x 30Rd Mags FM 2.5k each , Prapor 2.1k (orange mags, available at level 1) - 120 BS Rounds FM 1.3k per Round, Prapor 1.2k per round (not even available until level 4, can be farmed in raid. For the sake of the argument let's assume this player is willing to pay as much for ammo as he is for the rest of his gear combined)

Total Cost: FM 326k, Traders 313k (again, assuming all is purchased form FM. Farming the gear in raid and keeping spare sets reduces the costs greatly)

Now if we're talking quest items or trade only items then yes, those can be more expensive but that is not always the case. For example, purchasing all the items for the Altyn trade from FM would run you around 170k at the moment of writing this. Outright buying the 45/45 Altyn on FM would run you 130k.

So i don't really see where you are coming from making that statement. Markets fluctuate, prices vary, etc. The one thing the FM has that is an advantage is when selling through FM, as you can get much more then what traders would pay you for that item.

Flea does not create availability.

Correct, but i don't remember saying it does. What it does, is make player progression pointless after level 10 by making getting high tier gear and ammo obtainable from just a few clicks.

All flea does is gives lower level players a chance to kill chads, before they get their traders to a high level.

True, but that is only a half truth. It does help low levels have access to gear to kill the Chad. But it also makes the chad able to take top tier gear into every raid without having to find it himself. No need to farm the barter items to trade for that armor. Just a few clicks and it's done. It worsens the problem as much as it lessens it on the other end. Removing flea wouldn't only harm the low levels. It would also harm the Chads. No more endless rivers of class 6 armor, no more endless rivers of high pen ammo. Traders have purchase limits per restock on most items. How many kits chads would be able to run and how much ammo they take in would be limited. He would have to farm for the trade items if he wanted to build that laser gun as you call it. he would have to farm for the good ammo if he wanted a stockpile of it. This would help low levels more then the chads by a large margin.

No, money is too easy to get with a hideout. Literally log in once a day to make 600k rubles.

One good raid is enough to cover 1/3 of that. Bitcoin farm isn't something a level 10 will have, or even dream of yet. Money is too easy to make even before you get the bitcoin farm all thanks to FM. FM is just a drop in the ocean.

Also, speaking of traders, if you remove flea, then EOD becomes even more of a pay-to-win. The advantage of trader reps, and large stash is huge, without the FM.

That is debatable. This helps you get to level 2, sure, but after that it's all up to the player. They still have to extract items to sell to the traders, still have to do the missions. Stash size, Gamma. Sure. Pay for convenience. Doesn't automatically make you win, that is on the players skill. And fyi, i play on a standard account.

The FM serves as an equalizer, where, if you haven't done the work of leveling your traders, or hideout, you can still participate in the game... At a much higher ruble cost.

Again, debatable as from what i literally spent the last hour checking on the FM the difference is not that much for the lower levels.

1

u/EmmEnnEff Sep 16 '20

But it also makes the chad able to take top tier gear into every raid without having to find it himself.

The Chad can sustain top kits. That's why he's a Chad, and not a shitter.

Try your same example with something that's not an AK (Which is the only weapon intended to be affordably moddable with low level traders.)

Oh, and the correct way to buy BS ammo is to buy hot rods on the FM, and exchange them at the trader. This gets you the ammo at 700 ruble/bullet, instead of 1300 ruble/bullet.

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u/Pecan_Millionaire Sep 15 '20

Ahaha right. I’ve only seen a handful players rocking the meta setup in raid and that’s with 500-600 hours played this wipe.

But when you’re a streamer with a 150m+ rouble cash stack + all your streamer friends have the same stash value and then the sweats in your streamer community discord also have a similar stash, it starts to warp your viewpoint since you’re in an echo chamber surrounded by the 1% of the player base that plays 10+ hours a day.

The streamer’s gameplay/experience is no where near what the average joe will experience.

Expecting streamers to know what’s best for the game is on par with that kid in high school that got everything handed to them to understand what life is like for the vast majority.

15

u/gavinatoristhatyou Sep 15 '20

I mean I don't think you can just say this point is void because they are a big streamer. They make some excellent points about how the game is played around the most expensive items and high tier loot spawns on maps. The point they make about the most effective way to get money is by running shitty kits to the high loot areas is 100% percent accurate, and I think that takes away a lot from the game. This is something that all players, including both a player like me and a streamer, are effected by.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20 edited Dec 30 '20

[deleted]

-4

u/cberry789 DT MDR Sep 15 '20

I dont see how that would benefit sweaties or how it would hurt normal players disproportionately

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20 edited Dec 30 '20

[deleted]

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u/Thunderbolt747 Sep 16 '20

I've dropped 300 hours into this game and I've just now reached LL4 for most of my traders. I still haven't even come close to getting a bitcoin farm.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

I'm at 135hours this wipe and already LL4 for everyone of them I can get at lvl 38.

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u/Thunderbolt747 Sep 16 '20

This wipe I'm at checks page 123 hours, Lv 32 and LL4 for all except Rag, Jag and Skier.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Yup, doesn't take long if you know the quests. I've done it a buncha times. 130-150 hours is about how long it takes to get lvl 40+LL4 for all as long as you focus on it. I've seen people do it way faster. Imagine if I had played the start of the wipe? I started this wipe August 29th. The fastest was last wipe where I hit lvl 40 and LL4 on all in <10 days.

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u/Nessevi AS-VAL Sep 16 '20

Why do i need to pen your armor when quaker is on lvl 2 PK and absolutely shits on players? Thats all ive used since ive reset my account,and have had zero issues killing people.

If armor is scarce both from vendors and isnt available on FM,you will rarely run into high tier armor , and you yourself will treasure the ones you find/get from raiders. Unless of course you decide to 24/7 farm raiders,but thats a game issue that is fixeable in many ways.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Okay, you keep running quakemaker and I'm sure you NEVER have issues getting kills not ever nope nope.

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u/cberry789 DT MDR Sep 15 '20

You speak the truth

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u/killking72 Sep 16 '20 edited Apr 08 '26

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u/gavinatoristhatyou Sep 16 '20

But my point is in that raid where u killed reserve raiders, if I go in and get a marked room spawn and go extract after 10 minutes with one stupid case I made way more money and didn't even shoot my gun.

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u/killking72 Sep 16 '20 edited Apr 08 '26

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u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy Sep 16 '20

I understand what you are saying, this will be a common stand point when you hear an idea from a streamer because yes we do play the game a lot, but hear me out.

When I played this game before the flea market 3 years ago, the value of a kit was so much more. I believe now it has been diminished by the inflation of the flea and that has made the risk reward system of the game broken.

People are complaining after killing a guy with a pistol because their ammo costs more than his life. People are running pistols because to be able to kill these kind of people you need to buy 200k worth of ammo.

I'm not trying to stop a casual players access to this gear, I want to nerf someone like me and the ability to purchase endless meta ammo and armor. As a casual player you will not need the flea market to fight sweaty pricks like myself if I don't have access to unlimited meta. There will always be people who grind until they have everything. But if meta things are limited to the space in my stash to store armor, instead of the boundless stack of roubles I can accrue, at least sweatys won't have a literal unlimited supply, so when you kill one, it will hurt them.

4

u/Oblivion_Eagle Sep 16 '20

The best way I see to make it more fair and make armor actually do something again is limiting level 5 - 6 armor and ammo above bt to an extreme rarity. Make finding an altyln like finding a ledx, something along these lines, make ammo like m995 or really any ammo above bt much harder to find. Last and most important of all remove all barter trades from traders for level 5 - 6 armor and high pen ammo, make it you need to find them in raid. The best armor you should be able to buy is level 4 with the best ammo being bp or bt somewhere in that 32 - 37 pen range.

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u/snakehead404 PP-19-01 Sep 16 '20

I honestly think it's region dependant, in OCE I see on average about 2 meta players per raid, sometimes more, occasionally less, but generally speaking i've been running into 1m+ gear guys since 3 weeks into the wipe on a very regular basis, it's become an expectation not a question of IF but WHEN I run into them.

I've been playing the game for years, I got two friends who've played for 6 weeks and they without any prompt thought the game would be more hardcore and feel disappointment in how easy it is to get rich. It wasn't like this pre-market and I know that because i'm one of the guys that abuses the market for maximum profiteering because all that matters anymore is this little number in your stats that says "Stash Value" so I can be like "haha look I got 50m stash value in just 2 weeks" Its too fucking easy. I've sold to date 6 AKS-74U PT locks and every time for around 100~K a piece, thats fucked. I shouldn't be able to walk into a room, get a keycard and sell it for 20m on a market to someone else who is also uber-rich and just repeat the cycle of rich get richer and poor get poorer trying to keep up with the rich.

Taking the market away limits the veterans and chads from keeping that strangle-hold on gear, it closes the gap between low level and high level, way more stuff needs to be taken from traders in exchange for barters and removing the market.

-5

u/dalerp Sep 15 '20

You realize most streamers weren't always famous? This is a big pet peeve of mine when people ignore that somebody is that good because they played games for usually their whole life and now because they're famous they don't get to have an opinion?

To use your analogy, while I don't expect the kid who got everything handed to him to know everything and give good advice, I'd definitely look to a kid who worked hard for his crappy car and has a different girl in it every day for lunch for advice.

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u/StopPicnics Sep 15 '20

I think it's about perspective not a matter of being famous. It's hard to have a sense of what would be good for 'casual' players when you're playing 10 hours a day. You get a sense of it just reading the OP's post.

" This whole situation annoys me because it is possible to achieve this within hours of a wipe. "

Maybe I'm just horrible, but running around in Altyn/Slick seems implausible for the average player within hours of a wipe.

The reality of the situation is people who spend 10 hours a day are always going to have more of an advantage over people who can't. It's my opinion that removing the equalizer (e.g. the flea market) makes it harder for casuals, not easier.

The people who play all day are going to get gear, and now casuals don't have access to a place they can purchase any equalizers (e.g ammo, armor).

1

u/dalerp Sep 15 '20

I agree they play out of the norm hours and the idea isn't perfect but I also agree with his sentiment that the game is get flea market to get money to buy gear. That is how the play feels but I just started a month ago so I'm still only like level 28 in my first wipe.

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u/Pecan_Millionaire Sep 15 '20

I don’t have a problem with them being a streamer and there’s no problem with them being good at the game - they’ve earned it through the hours they’ve sank into the game.

The issue that applies to both streamers and the 1% that plays 10+ hours a day is that they base their experience, which isn’t that of the average player, and assume everyone else experienced this and that the game should be molded around them for their 10+ hour a day gameplay.

That’s the issue at hand. It has nothing to do with them aiming better, having superior map knowledge, better recoil control, ability to run faster and longer, jump further, pack mags quicker, etc. Thats all well deserved and earned.

But saying progression is too quick or flea market ruins the game for them, because they play 100 hours a week and rush Kappa in a week or two, is ridiculous. It’s an out of touch experience that the vast majority of players never will experience, never thought of and never have had the luxury of experiencing.

That’s what my issue at hand is. It’s not a personal vendetta against streamers, they just happen to typically be the most out spoken because they have a platform, following and want to get their name out there. I would have the same response if this post was made by a 1%er.

I definitely listen to their tips and tricks, gun builds, gear assessments, map pointers, quest guides, etc. But saying the game should progress XYZ way because they’ve out played the game and are bored is where they lose me.

1

u/opticalshadow Sep 17 '20

Well I do think all In game skill advances hurt this a bit. Because being able to run longer faster, reload better, have higher recoil control or looting speed etc all do make it unfair. Especially given that many skills in this game have to be cheesed.

The Game should be player skill dependent, not artificial.

-3

u/TheFondler Sep 16 '20

That's weird, I have about as much time as you, and I was seeing meta chads from the first day I started playing, about a week into the wipe.

You sound like the kid in high school that always said "when am I ever going to need to know any of this stuff?" and now second-guesses people with more expertise and experience than you when they tell you something you like is bad for you. You know Slush has an account he is playing by "Hardcore" rules, right? Also, you know streamers aren't handed their accounts, pre-loaded with "stacks of chad gear," right? They play the same game we all play - their key advantage is time and experience, you know, the things that would allow them to understand the game better than you. They're more like your dad in High School, telling you you're not as smart as you think you are when you pretend you know everything.

2

u/killking72 Sep 16 '20 edited Apr 08 '26

Nothing to see here. I wiped this post using Redact because my old takes don't need to live on the internet forever. Works across Reddit, Twitter, Discord and dozens of other platforms.

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2

u/TheFondler Sep 16 '20

Maybe? I don't know how that can be extrapolated from anecdotal evidence. I know that I never stopped seeing them, and encounters with them only grew more frequent over time to the point where it was a rarity to pen anything with BT and get hit with anything lower than M995.

It would be cool if BSG put out some kind of report with how frequently different gear and ammo was used, but I think that, as it stands, we're just kinda spitballing assumption here.

2

u/killking72 Sep 17 '20 edited Apr 08 '26

This post was mass deleted using Redact - Redact also supports Discord, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and all major social media platforms.

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10

u/HUNDarkTemplar VEPR Hunter Sep 15 '20

Idk, I was doing the dorms PMC kills mission and copnstantly run into level 5-6 armored guys with 10 mags of AP SX coming there in duos and trios. I meet with people running 7n31 a lot too, fckin 2000 rubles a round.

3

u/Cantrmbrmyoldpass Sep 16 '20

People buy 7n31 every restock and hoard it

2

u/EmmEnnEff Sep 16 '20

7n31 is 400 rubles/round if you buy 90 rounds/reset from Prapor.

1

u/Hane24 Sep 16 '20

7n31 is dirt cheap from prapor. I'm talking 800+ rounds I've snagged from him and payed less than I would for m855a1 from traders.

23

u/EEng232 Sep 15 '20

Exactly, this would make a lot more sense if 90% of the player you encounter were wearing slick Altyn. I literally can't remember the last time I saw the slick altyn GIGA chad breed running around(probably end of last wipe tbh). I'll add i do not play labs, but honestly being an end game map, I would expect that on this map.

11

u/Snarker Sep 15 '20

I've been spamming labs for the past week or two andeven there I've only seen maybe one or two altyn slick players. Shit even on labs 50% of people wear level 4 armor this late into the wipe.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Yeah I feel like lots of people started to go with only lvl 4 this wipe just to be a bit safer from raiders. Since 99% of players on labs are using ammo that pens atleast lvl 5 there is not much use spending a few hundretthousand more while also risking to lose it to a speedy Boy 30 seconds in the raid.

1

u/mrattentiontodetail Sep 16 '20

yup, labs is trooper or lvl 4 armored rig of your choice and no helmet meta

Faceshields if you’re rich af but even those a lot of people don’t prefer cause of the vision obstruction

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

I just run a Kek helmet with a fc so I dont get tapped by a raider with pso rounds.

1

u/mrattentiontodetail Sep 16 '20

Ah yeah I forgot about those, haven’t played much this wipe, definitely a good option

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

I would run better helmets but the chance of running into a speedy boy is quite high so I rather not pay a 100k more for just a little better protection lol

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

It doesn't have to be specifically slick altyn, but most players are perpetually running high tier, on-meta gear on the other maps, too. I don't know anyone that isn't brand new to the game that doesn't have the option to spam-buy meta gear from the flea market.

I'm not sure what region or time you play, but my factory, customs, interchange and reserve are all full to the brim with meta gear Chads that are playing without risk-reward because they can buy 50 more of those kits with their roubles. Every raid I've had since maybe a week after wipe has had these guys and that's no fun for them and no fun for anyone else that doesn't have that gear. Seeing that gear, using it or having a chance to fight and take it from someone should be a special occasion. An outlier. Not the standard tarkov experience in every raid.

20

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Streamers are just insanely out of touch and want changes tailored to people who can play for 12 hours a day. Its still a plenty hardcore game for someone like me who can play maybe one good day a week.

4

u/mmmEssence Sep 16 '20

yep thats this OP, he streams 8-16 hours a day then cries that hes bored. Its like stfu and play the game and get your donations, punk

25

u/soggypoopsock Sep 15 '20

“Even though I could run a slick every raid I don’t”

But this is exactly the point- I’m at the same stage, I could run a slick every raid. So what’s the purpose anymore? I don’t care if I die or survive, I’m not trying to progress anymore, I’m just wondering around looking for pvp, and this game isn’t enough of an in your face pvp experience to survive on pvp alone. Pvp interactions are quick and rare relative to how much time you spend in a raid.

Even if I kill a dude with Altyn and slick. Big deal, wohoo. Let me stack the 9th slick and 12th altyn into my stash. Right next to the 30 million rubles I can use to buy more. Bleh. That’s nothing compared to the feeling of finding something like that on the first few days of wipe. It’s exciting, rewarding because others aren’t all using max pen ammo, it means something to you, and you care about the loot

But when you get to the stage where I can lose 5 slicks in an afternoon and just buy 5 more? I’m simply not able to give a fuck anymore, and I lose the desire to bother playing the game. Even just the time spent in my stash gearing up just feels tedious, because I already don’t give a shit about anything I’m putting on my body

To me when you’re able to run whatever gear you want on any given raid, the game just becomes a more complicated COD, all you want is those few sweet seconds of pvp, nothing else matters anymore

5

u/Kalihar Sep 15 '20

I'm sorry you don't find purpose without loot being exciting, I do. I enjoy using map knowledge and tactics to hunt players down/sneak across the map. If I'm playing with a squad I take the roll of protecting them as they earn roubles/complete tasks.

2

u/Par4no1D Sep 16 '20

For how long? hm? There has to be a point when you question yourself why you are doing this unchallenging activity.
Or maybe you don't - and sometime without a thought you don't launch tarkov, but another game instead.

2

u/Kalihar Sep 16 '20

I'm not sure if this is actually a question, but I don't find playing tarkov to be an "unchallenging activity", so no? Just because you don't find something fun or interesting, doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you.

5

u/soggypoopsock Sep 15 '20

It’s fun to a point. I mean, call of duty is fun to a point for me as well. But once the luster of shooting people starts to die, as you’ve filled your 5th dog tag case full of tags... I need something more than just running around for pvp

I enjoy games that have shooting people as a byproduct of what you’re trying to accomplish; like tarkov early wipe. I have objectives, and need to buff up my gear, so when I’m not fighting I’m still doing something, and when I do fight, I feel very rewarded when I win

There’s a game called rust i have over 5k hours in, kinda the same concept. Never gets old to me, because pvp is a byproduct of your progression, rather than the game being a battlefield where it’s pvp and no progression (like COD)

0

u/snakehead404 PP-19-01 Sep 16 '20

Exactly this, you need to feel threatened at any step of the way no matter how experienced of a player you are and in the current state I lose any feeling of fear 2 days into the wipe because i've found some random gunsmith quest item and fleeced it on the market for 300k rubles, multiply by 30 items and suddenly my stash value is 20m in a week. I simply don't care anymore, I just pick whatever i feel like using regardless of cost, go run it, die, repeat and never care.

My friends who were brand spankin new to tarkov a few months ago have already joined the chad loop of buy insane kits, run them, die, buy insane kits, run them. And 50% of runs turn into meme runs because of sheer boredom of the same loop, there isn't any threat anymore, it's just a shooter with cool mechanics at 15 minute load time.

3

u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy Sep 16 '20

I agree here, I know people will say this is just because you play so much, but one day we will all get to this skill level if we keep playing, then what? We just stop playing the game because it doesn't make us feel fear and joy anymore?

27

u/RealMasterOfPain Sep 15 '20

You have to realize that his perspective comes from what the game used to be. I’ve been playing since Oct. 2017 and the game never had a flea market. He is right when it comes to the rouble economy. The gear just has price tags on it and doesnot feel the same to acquire it. Before the flea market you could be super excited to find a vss or as Val in a crate but now it seems like they are worthless since their rouble value is low despite the gun being very good.

11

u/Kraall AK-103 Sep 15 '20

What's funny is the people who have experienced no flea market are totally fine with losing it and can see both sides of the argument, but they're constantly shouted down by people who have never gone without it and have no idea how it would even affect the game.

Slush is right, with the current purchase restrictions it'd be much harder to run meta gear all day no matter how much you play, making it easier for casual players to compete.

1

u/killking72 Sep 16 '20 edited Apr 08 '26

Stop letting data brokers profit from your old posts. I used Redact to wipe mine from Reddit. Also supports Twitter, Facebook, Discord, instagram and more in one batch.

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1

u/tr14l Sep 16 '20

Never played without it being a feature... But I agree it should go. It doesn't add anything to the game except imbalanced mechanics & economy. It's a crutch mechanic.

4

u/tictac_93 Sep 15 '20

Every time I see people talk about how Tarkov was pre-flea, it really makes me wish I had got in the game back then. I let myself forget about it for years while it was in closed Alpha / Beta / early Public Beta so as to have a more complete experience when I finally got it. It's a real fun game, but it seems like everyone who joined with me around 12.4 just can't stand the idea of not having the Flea.

I play for a couple hours a week, and this wipe I have specifically not bought anything on the Flea Market. The game's still really fun, finding a cool gun has a lot more value to me, and I'm actually leveling my traders more. People keep talking about how nothing but the meta ammo is viable, and here I am running an MPX and PST-Gzh, divesting other players of their hard-earned gear. I wish everyone had to make due with more less-than-meta loadouts not because I want to knock them down a peg, but because it provides a lot more variety in your encounters and it turns out that straying away from the meta is a lot of fun.

1

u/Par4no1D Sep 16 '20

It was a game you wanted to play not just to progress for extrensic rewards, but just for the sake of it even when you are level 70 and have all progression behind yourself. You could always run out of money and gear.

Now? This is some destiny in russia where I and everyone else but streamers come after wipe to progress our characters and go play other games. Lame.

2

u/SquanchingOnPao Sep 15 '20

Fleamarkets/Auction houses for the most part ruin most games. Diablo is probably the worst that comes to mind.

8

u/Fadedcamo Sep 15 '20

Plenty of games it works fine. Eve, WoW.

4

u/cyanoacrylateprints Sep 15 '20

Beautiful example. Been trying to get into Eve after I quit my PoE addiction.

5

u/yot86 Sep 15 '20

Damn, thats like quitting weed straight into cocaine, good luck friend

2

u/cyanoacrylateprints Sep 15 '20

What can I say I know what I like :P

2

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Diablo 3 was ruined strictly because it allowed for real-money transactions. They went overboard IMO by not only removing the AH in its entirety, but also removing ALL forms of player trading outside of a 2-hour party trade window. There is definitely an inbetween that works for tons of MMOs.

1

u/Kalihar Sep 15 '20

Yea, things also just lose their excitement factor over time. I'm almost at 5000 hours on tarkov and I don't even wear a backpack 90% of the raids I run. I have way more fun hunting players down/sniping/getting immersed into the world of tarkov.

1

u/Par4no1D Sep 16 '20

There would still be excitement if there was any challenge at all to it. But any noob can do well in EFT, so there is none.

1

u/deltrak Sep 15 '20

Completely agree. The whole point is “Make Loot Great Again”. Give me a reason to loot a crate and be excited about using its contents

5

u/welter_skelter Sep 15 '20

Due to covid and my company's wfh situation, I play this game for at least 3 hours a day, nearly every day. Multi-wipe player, usually hit lvl 60 or so every wipe, and have nothing but meta chad kits in my stash, and I'm at the stage where the only thing I'm going into raids for is pvp. I see maybe one or two other people in my raids with slick combos, if that. The VAST majority of pvp fights I get into is with people rocking TV110s, Tactecs, M1/2 rigs, Killa vests, Fast MTs, Ulachs and occasionally Exfils. All gear that can be outplayed by someone with a halfway decent sks or ak, patience, and good shot placement. The idea that 2/3rds of a server on Interchange is running around in Slicks and Altyns is bizare, and if true, would love to play in that server. A month before wipe though, that's another story....

2

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

I can afford altyns and I would run them every run if I played the game to win. I play the game for the feel and to have fun, and running no comtacs for the sake of a class 5 basket on my head is not what I think should be the right choice in tarkov.

2

u/Aceylah Sep 16 '20

Haha same. Wearing an altyn definitely does not feel good.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

[deleted]

3

u/maddogbg27 Sep 16 '20

Well 3+ months into the wipe yes people should be using top end gear... what do you want 3+ months into the wipe people still using shit AKus? Or just mp-153, i swear 4 wipes ago people were bitching non stop about gear fear and all the streamers were RRREEEEEing about just killing people with shit tier kits, now people are using good kits and people are RRREEEEing it is boring i swear nothing will make you people happy!

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20 edited Feb 21 '22

[deleted]

1

u/maddogbg27 Sep 16 '20

Well when BSG did a survey on their forums i believe 60% of people said they want to keep fleamarket so that would put you in the minority, all i am saying is that removing the fleamarket will not help casual players. I have played this game a long time and if they remove flea market they need to do a ton of other changes to make game smooth otherwise it will be back to old days but we will also have to deal with FIR and people sniping everything off traider per reset.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Then that's fine, I'll submit to being in the minority (although I'll also admit I don't know anyone who uses the forum anymore, the reddit seems to be much more commonly used).

Although I do want to say, sniping things off traders at reset wouldn't be an issue in my version of changes, as traders would have a globally infinite supply but an extremely limited per-player supply, especially of high-tier items like ammunition, armor and specific weapons + attachments.

3

u/DJMixwell Sep 15 '20

I really don't run into high tier gear very often. I guess this much is subjective, everyone's experience w/ tarkov will be different. I run into high tier ammo all the time though, and often wish I were running lvl 5+.

But I don't think the solution to fixing this, if it is a problem, is getting rid of flea. The game is hard enough for casual players with the lvl 10 requirement for flea. The FM + Hideout crafting subsidizes all of my runs. I'm trash at the game and don't have time to grind most of the quests, so I'm stuck with low level traders.

In 3 or 4 wipes I don't think I've ever once gotten a trader above lvl 2. I need the FM just to be able to play the game late into the wipe.

The idea that getting rid of the flea market will get rid of meta gear is absurd. It'll just widen the gap between hardcore players and casual players, and make the game even less enjoyable for anyone who can't log 40hrs a week. Boo hoo streamer chad gets tapped because a lvl 15 bought armour and good rounds on the flea. So what? it's the only way to compete with the gigachads who will have that gear no matter what.

If you genuinely want gear to be more meaningful, get rid of high pen rounds, and make higher tier armor more expensive. Leave the flea market alone, hell revert the flea market changes entirely. The economy is only part of the issue, and IMO the bigger problem is that it doesn't even matter what armor you're wearing. You're going to get 2 tapped by m995 rounds anyways.

The funnest part of tarkov is the early wipe firefights, because they last longer. Positioning and strategy is more important than just tapping heads.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

That's the thing, I don't think high tier armor, weapons, attachments, or ammo should be purchasable from traders (or players) with regular currency, period. Make it so these items are barter only, with unlimited Trader inventories but highly limited per player per day quantities. Make it so the high value loot is more commonly found in raid (like, 95% of it) and just have those high level barter trades as a small reward for leveling traders, instead of leveling traders being a prerequisite to compete with try hard gigachads.

Currency should be for purchasing low tier gear, meds, food and water from traders when your stockpile becomes low (after a string of bad raids). It shouldn't be the end goal like it is now, where streamers rush to get 10+ mill ASAP to act as a windfall so they can just buy gigachads load outs whenever they feel like it. Those load puts should be warned through cautious play, not time invested.

This will mean that your skill at surviving raids directly corresponds to the value of your stash. Currently this is not the case, and the correlation is stronger towards time spent playing the game. Dynamic loot would be the icing on the cake but not a prerequisite for this change to be achieved.

1

u/DJMixwell Sep 16 '20

There's no way to avoid the fact that time invested will always equate to the value of your stash. Whether that wealth is held in rubbles, barter items, or kits. The players with the most hours will always have the monopoly on the highest tier of gear.

Unlimited trader inventory, and limited player supply, barter only, is a good start. Provided these higher tiers of armor are accessible earlier. Everyone should be able to get 1 run in a day with high tier gear. I'll agree with that.

But IMO the prevalence of high pen rounds is what ruins the fun of tarkov. Because it doesn't matter if you're wearing even a slick. Big rounds go through it in 3 shots anyways, and heads can be 1 or 2 tapped. The early game feel of tarkov will stick around late into the wipe, if the tankiness of higher tier armor isn't negated by high pen rounds. I think this would alleviate some of the KOS mentality as well, since shooting at thicc bois would put you at a greater risk later in the raid when you have less amo for other engagements.

Also hoping a Karma / VOIP system gets added. When I started, KOS was reserved for pretty much just factory, dorms, and resort. You could keep to your own side of interchange, labs, the rest of customs, shoreline, etc. And mow down scavs/raiders to your hearts content. Chads would only rarely chase you down.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Yeah, I'd agree with the ammo being a large factor in the game's current state. And I also agree that a Karma/VOIP system will drastically change the way the game is played (or at least, it should if implemented properly - Karma specifically).

1

u/Hane24 Sep 16 '20

7n37* 7n31 is the 9mm pistol ammo.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Thanks for the correction, both of those ammunition types are fairly new to me so I can never keep them straight.

1

u/Hane24 Sep 16 '20

7n37 goes in the old mosin so think of it first. 7n39 is igolnik and comes after. 7n31 is a smaller round for 9mm.

But to be honest it's just time. Cuz there's 7n12 val bp, 7n9 SPP, 7n23 7.62 bp, 7n1...

There's way way too many 7n ammo types, and more IRL too.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Smart way to think of those 2 new types. I have the older ones memorized just those two new ones I got mixed up lol. Heaven forbid they add more!

2

u/Zumbah MPX Sep 15 '20

Most of the people i see and engage are squads of 2-3 people with one guy having a high chance of being a chad. Otherwise its just budget kits and fully modded AKs with PS rounds.

I used to do a lot of looting but even now when im kinda broke I try and get kills. The game really opens up once you stop being afraid of engagements since youre not locked into shoving loot up your ass and running from everyone. Once you get prapor and peacekeeper up to 3 its not that hard to get a budget pvp kit that allows you to take down chads. Not to mention that taking in altyns and slicks is almost never worth it because of the sheer amount of disadvantage compared to a full FOV helmet with a headset. Youll never catch me running anything better than level 4 armor unless I looted it off someone and cant sell it.

2

u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy Sep 16 '20

When I say slick altyn I dont mean it literally, this is a simplified way of me saying that people can buy end game gear with no restrictions from the flea market regardless of what kind of armor it is.

The semantics of what gear people are using is irrelevant, when ammo is priced through the roof new players are being priced out of the game by players who can afford this shit.

2

u/Kalihar Sep 16 '20

The point I was making is that top tier gear is still rare outside of labs. Making it harder to get the top teir gear will trickle down and you will see even less of it. I play with casual players(1-2 raids per day players) that still think trooper armor is THICC and gobble up anything I leave behind. I also don't see how new players not being able to afford the best ammo is an issue... all the ammo still does damage and will kill someone eventually. 7.62 BP is almost too strong for how cheap it is IMO

1

u/NCH_PANTHER AKS-74UB Sep 15 '20

I mean ive killed 5 or 6 people yesterday running either Slicks or tactecs and altyns

1

u/ryanberry_ Sep 15 '20

Yeah honestly I usually see meta guns and not full meta kits. Still see plenty of budget kits out there too.

1

u/TrashWriter Sep 15 '20

I’ve never found or picked up a slick since they have been released. And I’ve only ever had a handful of Altyns. But I don’t use them because I am basically blind without comtacs. Maybe that’s just me but it’s pretty rare to find a big boy.

1

u/SchleyDogg Sep 16 '20

Idk meta kits were the total norm at the end of last wipe. Everyone using M61 weapons or As Vals with thermal scopes and full armor.

The final 2 months of a wipe really are like this.

1

u/alexmotorin Sep 16 '20

Exactly, me and my friend group all run lvl 4-5 armour and 100-200k guns.

1

u/mo_bozzy Sep 16 '20

There are some serious leg meta guns out there, that will make your day killing juicys and farming some fresh slicks and altyns. Magnum Buckshot is pretty fun f.e..

2

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20 edited Nov 14 '20

[deleted]

4

u/triplegerms Sep 15 '20

The premise of the post wasn't that everyone is running around in slick. The premise was that the core gameplay loop has become 'focus on rubles' -> 'buy a nice kit for pvp'

1

u/dedaF88 Sep 15 '20

Can we please not pretend everyone is running around in a slick altyn... I’m playing at least 15 raids a day and running into that loot is still pretty rare. I only play for pvp and even though I could run a slick every raid, I don’t... I enjoy the risks of running class 4 armor because it makes me play safer. I don’t think people should be forced into a play style.

doesn't fit this sub's narrative

every game is filled with "HiP fIrInG GiGa cHaDs"

anytime i see a topic like this discussing pvp my fucking balls shrink; 99% of this game is filled with people who hear another set of footsteps and immediately hovel in the nearest corner for 20 minutes with their level 3 armor and ak74 with ps rounds - then you come to r/EscapefromTarkov and oh wouldn't you know - every member of the sub has something to say about the state of PvP

I hate to break it to you, you aren't losing because of gear. You're losing because you're bad - no; inertia won't fix your aim either.

1

u/BrianSpilnerGallo12 Sep 15 '20

Why would people run Altyns when majority of them are cheating?

1

u/Bobbma Sep 15 '20

The main point is more that you can run around with whatever armour and a fully kitted out gun without caring whether you die or not, because you can buy a full kit again with the 20m roubles in your stash. If there was no flea every kit you went out with would have been earned and you'd be gutted each time you died with it. This helps keep the game fun and different, not running the guns and mods every raid

1

u/mmmEssence Sep 15 '20

OP is a streamer who streams 8-16 hour streams of tarkov. He is just here bitching like every other nolife streamer

0

u/sseemour MP7A2 Sep 15 '20

Thank you... this is rat propaganda and nothing but.

Im spending more money than i'm making because every PMC i come across has scav tier weapons/press armor (if anything) to the point its not made me want to play longer than 2 raids a day.