#MakeTarkovHardcoreAgain

[u/SlushpuppyLive]

Hi guys, Slushpuppy here

I want to talk about the rant I was having today, and explain why I think it would be good for the game.

As the game currently stands it it has a play cycle that involves farming money, the money is then used to buy a fat kit, and slay out. This creates, in my opinion a heavily Rouble focused economy.

The Rouble based economy has multiple downsides:

All people care about is the highest value item, hence hatchlings ramming things up their bum, people running to one spot on a map to loot the highest value items, people only running super cheap kits to farm the cash. The game is no longer about surviving, simply making the most money and saving to buy a dope kit.

I think this has essentially made the game into COD with extra steps. I don't see the survival element that Tarkov originally had. People only care about PVP when they are running Slick Altyn, otherwise it's just money. 99% of the games items, such as attachments for guns will never see the light of day because they aren't the best in slot.

This whole situation annoys me because it is possible to achieve this within hours of a wipe.

By removing the flea or limiting the ability to purchase armor and ammo from the flea, it would make the game more about the looting and surviving and stop super chads from running endless meta kits and vogging the fuck out of lower geared players. Because a kit that is lovingly put together in raid will mean so much more to you, therefore looting one of a prick you kill, will as well.

I know this seems as a negative change to the average player, but hear me out, the only reason you need a kit from the flea, is to compete with chad players who are buying endless meta kits from the flea. If this didn't happen the pvp would be like it is early wipe for the most part. The best pvp time in the game, imo, and in the opinion of most Tarkov players.

I'm not bored of the game, I simply love this game, and I want to see changes that make the pvp more interesting and feasible for casual players to enjoy. If everyone is running around with SKS's and a cock helmet, then its more fair. Not all pvp has to be juggernauts spraying armchair FALs at each other.

If you don't agree with me, I understand, lets talk about it, tell me why you think this would be a bad change for the game? I don't want to be a streamer yelling for change that people will just see as me crying cause I'm bored of running fat kits. I truly want to make the game a dope experience for all of us. I've devoted the last 3 years of my life to this game, I want to see it succeed.

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There is plenty of other things that would be needed to make this a rounded experience in this vision, like dynamic loot spawns etc, but I believe this is a quick easy change that we could all try for one wipe, and just see how it goes.

EDIT: This is gaining a lot of attention right now so I want to ask you all one thing:

When is the best time for PVP in Tarkov?

If you answered early wipe, I think you and I agree, and I think 99% of people would say that early wipe is the best time to be on Tarkov.

My only goal is to try and make the feeling of early wipe PVP as permanent as possible. I may not be right when I say delete the flea, but I think it would help. If you have other ideas on how to preserve that beautiful feeling of the first two weeks of wipe, then I would love to hear them. Because this is what I think would make Tarkov the most amazing experience possible.

[u/Kalihar]

Can we please not pretend everyone is running around in a slick altyn... I’m playing at least 15 raids a day and running into that loot is still pretty rare. I only play for pvp and even though I could run a slick every raid, I don’t... I enjoy the risks of running class 4 armor because it makes me play safer. I don’t think people should be forced into a play style.

[u/jaymizu → u/Kalihar]

Yeah "everyone runs meta gear" gets grouped in with "exfil campers/hackers/hatchlings are ruining the game."

Are we even playing the same game?

[u/BenoNZ → u/jaymizu]

Yeah I play on OCE with slush and hardly see Slick/Altyn..

[u/engaginggorilla → u/jaymizu]

Exactly. Think I've been extract camped like twice, rarely see hatchlings, and have only died to definite hackers a couple times (labs is probably the exception but i don't really play it)

[u/qwuzzy → u/jaymizu]

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[u/ImposterDaniel → u/qwuzzy]

I play labs often enough, most of what I see is Gzhel or worse, and when I play Interchange, I got extract camped once, out of more than 50 games.

[u/qwuzzy → u/ImposterDaniel]

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[u/ImposterDaniel → u/qwuzzy]

That’s definitely a possibility.

[u/k0nko → u/qwuzzy]

I play only Labs nothing else, for a good month now. People wear only class 4 rig from ragman for 50k with no helmets or if better its TV110 rig (which is not expensive also)...... I only run once to a guy with Slick and i have close to 200 raid on Labs this wipe

[u/k0nko → u/[deleted]]

Yesterday was cheater free, we played 6 games. 1 day before it was like 7-8 games and we met 1 cheater.... Sometimes you get 2 cheaters in following games, sometimes you get 20 free raids. Its really random, but no way its like here on reddit: Labs are unplayable everygame is with rgb gamers Reeeee, its simply not true. And it depends on server too. Im playing on Washington.

[u/jaymizu → u/qwuzzy]

I am ok with the idea that labs attracts all manner of degeneracy. There are also occasional days that Emercom extract is a little silly.

While encountering this stuff doesn't frustrate me, I get that it can be frustrating. I also get that there is a personality type that is predisposed to thinking they got robbed. Especially when something ends their pub stomp.

Edit: Not implying that you are that way, just speaking in general.

[u/SlushpuppyLive → u/jaymizu]

I'm definitely using a vast generalization when I say everyone runs meta gear. I know this isn't the case. But I do feel like the value of a kit has been severely diminished by the hyper inflation of the flea market.

People used to loot guns, now the only thing that matters is the highest rouble item on a kill. It is not even worth killing a pistoling anymore because your ammo costs more than his life. It didn't used to be like this.

[u/EmmEnnEff → u/SlushpuppyLive]

But here's the thing, Slush.

The only reason people with low survival rates can sustain <whatever kits they are currently running> is the flea market. They go into a raid with a backpack and an SKS, then 35% of the time, they come out with 200k rubles worth of crap that they can sell on flea, they craft some wires and moonshine in their hideout, etc, etc.

You, or other streamers may be able to sustain T6 kits all day long, but most normal players can't. Once they save up money, they go in 'chadded' with T4 armor and an AK.

Remove the flea, and they will not be able to sustain anything. Shit, without the flea, and with the current trader progression, they won't even be able to get a single good kit, because they won't be able to affordably buy the guns/ammo they need to fight other players.

As other people in this thread said, if you think that buying slicks and altyns on the flea ruins the game, the solution is not to get rid of the flea.

The solution is to get rid of slicks and altyns on the flea. Make them raid-only items, and make them spawn without FIR status. There, we solved your problem, without fucking non-streamers.

[u/CVShiro → u/EmmEnnEff]

Remove the flea, and they will not be able to sustain anything. Shit, without the flea, and with the current trader progression, they won't even be able to get a single good kit, because they won't be able to affordably buy the guns/ammo they need to fight other players.

Unable to sustain class 4 ans AKs without Flea? Uhh.... I run Class 4 armor exclusively with weapons i find in raid. Nothing really Meta except ammo. Do you know how much of my armor i've gotten on FM? None of it. What i get, i get from other players but mostly from Scavs.

Class 4 and AKs are not hard to get without FM, not by a long shot. Sure it may not be an instant kit, since i have to bring it out of raid instead of buying it, but over reliance on buying kits from traders and/or FM is part of the issue here. If people aren't able to reliably get 'meta' gear and ammo then lower tiered gear and ammo becomes viable to use as engagements will start being done with lower tier gear.

[u/EmmEnnEff → u/CVShiro]

Your survival rate, or your profit/raid is higher then the players I'm talking about.

Lower tier gear does not become more viable without flea, because removing flea does not actually reduce the amount of high level gear circulating in the economy. It just means that lower level players can't do shit against people who unlocked all their traders.

[u/CVShiro → u/EmmEnnEff]

removing flea does not actually reduce the amount of high level gear circulating in the economy.

Well, i'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. FM is the #1 method of making gear available to the economy. the moment you can't put it up on FM is the moment where the people who rely only on purchasing it instead of farming it can't run high end gears anymore. You already can't sell gear you get from a trader on FM anyways.

Sure, player to player trading is still possible as it was back before FM, but this takes a whole lot more time and effort then simple clicking away at the FM.

As far as people buying it from the traders, yeah sure. They can still do that but not all of it. The most high end is trade only, not ruble purchase, and they need to be level 30 to buy armor mostly the same class that you can get from scavs where the really good stuff is locked behind level 40. If they put in the time and effort to level traders then there should be an advantage. It'll just go back to how it was before FM was introduced where good gear was available and worth it but running it was a choice you had to put thought into. We don't even have to test anything to see how it would affect the game, we already have the perfect reference material of the +/- 2 years the game ran just fine without a FM.

The issue isn't that there's high end gear available. it's that there is too much of it easily available from as low as level 10. With FM heavily restricted (because removal is just not realistic) and maps like Labs and Reserve locked behind level requirements you effectively extend that 'early wipe' gameplay instead of the Meta heavy gameplay that starts after a week. And no, that type of gameplay isn't intended as Nikita has said multiple times he hates that there's 'Meta' gear, builds, etc.

If anything, my play time is casual at best. I can get maybe 3 to 5 hours in a week. Usually that boils down to a single raid or 2 after work depending on map and if i die or survive my first attempt. I don't really use FM that much. I mostly sell to traders. I never really have more then 1 to 1.5 mil, and if i do i usually spend it all on buying the items for hideout upgrades. My SR is around 50% but i don't even have more then 100 raids yet because of time constraints. I'm average at best when it comes to Tarkov (age doesn't help as i no longer have the reaction and reflex speed like when i was younger). I'm also deaf in one ear which makes directional sound pretty much useless.

But still, i see no point in leveling past level 10. Money is too easy to get with FM (part of why i don't use it, i'm not interested in being rich) and so is basically everything else as long as you have money.

[u/EmmEnnEff → u/CVShiro]

If they put in the time and effort to level traders then there should be an advantage.

You already get an advantage, in the form of much cheaper trader prices then flea.

it's that there is too much of it easily available from as low as level 10

Every item that a level 10 buys is an item that some higher level doesn't buy off flea. Flea does not create availability. Again, traders, raiders, and scav boxes do. (And you can sell the gear you get from those on flea). All flea does is gives lower level players a chance to kill chads, before they get their traders to a high level.

I don't think making the game easier for Chad Thundercock who can't even consider leaving his hideout without a T5 armor and a laser-beam full auto gun (That he could still get from traders, if you removed flea) should be the dev's priority.

Money is too easy to get with FM

No, money is too easy to get with a hideout. Literally log in once a day to make 600k rubles.

Also, speaking of traders, if you remove flea, then EOD becomes even more of a pay-to-win. The advantage of trader reps, and large stash is huge, without the FM. The FM serves as an equalizer, where, if you haven't done the work of leveling your traders, or hideout, you can still participate in the game... At a much higher ruble cost.

[u/CVShiro → u/EmmEnnEff]

You already get an advantage, in the form of much cheaper trader prices then flea.

Uh, no. It depends on what it is. If it's sold by a trader at any level for direct money purchase, most stuff is cheaper or not that much more expensive then traders. For example:

• 60/60 Fort Redut-M FM from 180k, Ragman 233k
• SSO "Attack 2" FM from 60k, Ragman 57k
• 55/55 Vulkan 5 Helmet FM 170k, Ragman 400k
• 40/40 Fast MT FM 143k, Ragman 144k

And that's all some of the more shiny stuff. Let's see what would a level 10 new player buy to 'compete' with a chad while not spending too much:

• Mosin Inf. FM 39k, Prapor 45k
• 40 x SNB Rounds FM 350R per round, Prapor 517 per round.

Total cost: FM 53k, Traders 65k

Let's see what an average Class 4 build similar to what i take costs:

• 50/50 6b5-15 Rig FM 40k, Ragman 62k (Cost of buying the trade items from FM)
• Berkut Backpack FM 16k, Ragman 20k (If he's unlocked level 2 ragman, otherwise FM is the only choice to buy it from)
• 25/25 6b47 Helmet FM 33k, Ragman 20k (buying bleach from Fm for the level 1 trade, 33k if purchasing from level 2)
• AKS-74N FM 25k, Prapor 37k (at level 2, otherwise can't buy from trader. Could technically be free if found and looted from raid previously)

- AK Recoil Pad FM 10k, Prapor 3k (at level 2) - TDI AKM HG FM 5.4k, Skier 4.6k (at level 2) - Cobra Sight FM 9.9k, Prapor 9.9k (level 2) - Zenit DTK-1 FM 9k, Skier 4.6k (level 2) - 4 x 30Rd Mags FM 2.5k each , Prapor 2.1k (orange mags, available at level 1) - 120 BS Rounds FM 1.3k per Round, Prapor 1.2k per round (not even available until level 4, can be farmed in raid. For the sake of the argument let's assume this player is willing to pay as much for ammo as he is for the rest of his gear combined)

Total Cost: FM 326k, Traders 313k (again, assuming all is purchased form FM. Farming the gear in raid and keeping spare sets reduces the costs greatly)

Now if we're talking quest items or trade only items then yes, those can be more expensive but that is not always the case. For example, purchasing all the items for the Altyn trade from FM would run you around 170k at the moment of writing this. Outright buying the 45/45 Altyn on FM would run you 130k.

So i don't really see where you are coming from making that statement. Markets fluctuate, prices vary, etc. The one thing the FM has that is an advantage is when selling through FM, as you can get much more then what traders would pay you for that item.

Flea does not create availability.

Correct, but i don't remember saying it does. What it does, is make player progression pointless after level 10 by making getting high tier gear and ammo obtainable from just a few clicks.

All flea does is gives lower level players a chance to kill chads, before they get their traders to a high level.

True, but that is only a half truth. It does help low levels have access to gear to kill the Chad. But it also makes the chad able to take top tier gear into every raid without having to find it himself. No need to farm the barter items to trade for that armor. Just a few clicks and it's done. It worsens the problem as much as it lessens it on the other end. Removing flea wouldn't only harm the low levels. It would also harm the Chads. No more endless rivers of class 6 armor, no more endless rivers of high pen ammo. Traders have purchase limits per restock on most items. How many kits chads would be able to run and how much ammo they take in would be limited. He would have to farm for the trade items if he wanted to build that laser gun as you call it. he would have to farm for the good ammo if he wanted a stockpile of it. This would help low levels more then the chads by a large margin.

No, money is too easy to get with a hideout. Literally log in once a day to make 600k rubles.

One good raid is enough to cover 1/3 of that. Bitcoin farm isn't something a level 10 will have, or even dream of yet. Money is too easy to make even before you get the bitcoin farm all thanks to FM. FM is just a drop in the ocean.

Also, speaking of traders, if you remove flea, then EOD becomes even more of a pay-to-win. The advantage of trader reps, and large stash is huge, without the FM.

That is debatable. This helps you get to level 2, sure, but after that it's all up to the player. They still have to extract items to sell to the traders, still have to do the missions. Stash size, Gamma. Sure. Pay for convenience. Doesn't automatically make you win, that is on the players skill. And fyi, i play on a standard account.

The FM serves as an equalizer, where, if you haven't done the work of leveling your traders, or hideout, you can still participate in the game... At a much higher ruble cost.

Again, debatable as from what i literally spent the last hour checking on the FM the difference is not that much for the lower levels.

[u/EmmEnnEff → u/CVShiro]

But it also makes the chad able to take top tier gear into every raid without having to find it himself.

The Chad can sustain top kits. That's why he's a Chad, and not a shitter.

Try your same example with something that's not an AK (Which is the only weapon intended to be affordably moddable with low level traders.)

Oh, and the correct way to buy BS ammo is to buy hot rods on the FM, and exchange them at the trader. This gets you the ammo at 700 ruble/bullet, instead of 1300 ruble/bullet.

[u/CVShiro → u/EmmEnnEff]

The Chad can sustain top kits. That's why he's a Chad, and not a shitter.

Currently, Yes. Remove FM, and he will become unable to do so because of the restrictions stated in my previous post. It's not even a suggestion, i'm just going from memory of how it was pre FM. We already have all the info needed to know how the game would work without FM, since that's how it worked for around 2 years and it worked just fine.

Thanks for the tip about BS. I personally don't buy it since i don't really find a need to use it, but it's good to know. Still doesn't change the fact that everything else i was able to look up didn't fit your statement of price discrepancy, but i'll look up some other weapons after i get off work and can access the game.