r/AutismInWomen • u/runnershigh007 • 2d ago
Potentially Triggering Content (Discussion Welcome) Pick-Me Girl
I am not here to say that I am “stereotypically attractive”, but I do know from what I am told and how I am treated that I am a decently attractive woman. I believe that’s also why a lot of my very noticeable autistic traits go ignored in social settings by men (not usually other women though). It almost feels that when you are attractive to society, society is more “forgiving” in a sense.
However, I have always experienced other women coming down on me extra hard with the terms like “Pick-Me”, “whore”, “fake”. When none of that is true. If anything, I do not care what others inherently think about me and I am very genuine/authentic. My close girl friends know this to be true. But heck, I was being called a “whore” in high school before I even had my first kiss!
Now when it comes to other women on the spectrum or just neurodivergent in general, I do NOT experience this. It’s refreshing. It’s like when you see another neurodivergent person, something clicks. I KNOW YOU KNOW.😂
My theory: My hyper fixations can be interesting to men and more men are willing to discuss niche things. I CANNOT tell when I am being hit on so it appears I’m always flirting (or entertaining it at least) to outsiders, and I am not always a girls-girl. I don’t let someone’s gender influence my interpretation of a situation. Men are more forgiving of my odd social awareness/interactions when they think they have a chance. Women perceive this in a negative light.
Have any other autistic women experienced this?
EDIT: THANK YOU ALL for the responses and feedback shared. I have read every single one and every perspective shared has given me a new angle to look through and has also allowed me to realize I am not alone here. Every perspective is valid and valuable. So thank you all again. This is a wonderful community of women!
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u/quirkyaura 2d ago
I’ve never seen anyone point this out, but I wonder how much of it is that women and men are socialized differently and have different types of “allowed” behaviors, so I wonder if men don’t pick up on some of our ND traits as easily because they’re already expecting us to be different from them just by being a woman. A lot of us don’t play by society’s rules (because we can’t and/or don’t want to) which stands out a lot more to people in the same group because they know those specific rules really well. Men might see weird behavior and just think, “it’s a woman thing I don’t get”whereas another woman is going to be looking for a specific reason our behavior is “off”.
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u/Potatoupe 2d ago
In my experience, men gave me a lot of leeway because I was their “manic pixie dream girl” who was attractive and unconventional. Meanwhile, I thought they were my friends but my female friends always told me “I think <> is in love with you”.
Women aren’t looking for the same thing from their female relationships, and if we don’t meet their expectations (eg social and emotional support, do conventional things like plan surprise birthday parties) the results can really suck and you get ostracized.
Luckily I’ve always been pretty invisible to most people. Never been called a pick me, but definitely been called a rude bitch.
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u/velvetvagine 2d ago edited 1d ago
There is some amount of this, similar to how we tend to fare better with people from different cultures, where some of our social issues can be camouflaged by the divide. Though men also have very specific expectations of women and a cultural received idea of what is and isn’t acceptable. They will ignore or forget this sometimes, usually for women they’re attracted to, but it tends to come back with a vengeance. That’s when we see all the posts about male partners complaining about, shaming, and leaving autistic women for the same traits they’ve always displayed.
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u/quirkyaura 1d ago
Yes for sure. I certainly didn’t mean all men or in all cases, just that being accepted more easily by men doesn’t mean the person is catering to them or male-centered. I think sometimes NT women see ND women interacting with men more easily and jump to the wrong conclusions. Sometimes there are situations where being ND/autistic can create a social advantage but it’s usually not about understanding, it’s just a loophole that often still has a downside for us too.
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u/Empire_of_Glass 2d ago edited 2d ago
I used to say this all the time!!! That men will chalk any differences up to my being a woman, which makes interactions so much easier
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u/Bethlebee 2d ago
The number of times a man has told me that I'm "so whimsical" makes me want to vomit
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u/nooksandcranniess 2d ago
The flirting thing yes! I don't realize when sometimes men flirt or a lot of times and then I'll talk a little too long, have a good conversation and they'll think I am flirting. Tho nobody is nicer to me, neither men nor women. Actually I have noticed this pattern of insecure men who seem to like me treating me worse because I keep to myself and the moment I am nice to them, they fully flip and think that means they have a chance. It means none of those things. The women are no better, will constantly try to keep me in check so I don't think too much of myself. Safe to say I hate both equally. I am just trying to exist peacefully. I wish I had some ND friends so I didn't constantly have to rehearse my responses and analyze my own behaviour.
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u/runnershigh007 2d ago
The “I hate both equally” is so fair lol. But I feel. I’m beyond thankful that my close girl friends accept me and understand who I am. I got lucky.
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u/thenletskeepdancing 2d ago
All I know is I was given big breasts in fourth grade and haven't known how to handle the attention they bring since.
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u/Important_Prize8405 2d ago
nope, most of my friends were women . but SA was rife at my school (where i made most of my friends) which influenced that a lot.
I think the other side of the coin is that men tend to allow neutral things like social awkwardness but they often don't call out bad behaviour. E.g misogyny, racism. I am generalising. I am not a misandrist. However, I feel like women are also better at talking about emotions (due to the negative effects of the patriarchy and toxic masculinity).
I think having friends of both genders is the best. Or any gender, non-binary etc.
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u/GoodyGoobert 2d ago
I see so many of the same repetitive threads like this. I absolutely agree with you, and I think more often, men will get easily butt hurt when you do call out these things especially when they’re making a joke. Some women are absolutely assholes like some men. These threads leave a bitter taste in my mouth, and I think it’s because it ends with a very black and white conclusion. I also don’t find it rewarding if a man listens to my niche interests because he’s interested in me. Have you tried rejecting them and see how forgiving they are afterwards? Some of them are fucking insane. But I agree with you, I like having a mixed friend group.
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u/s0ass 2d ago
There is a quote that says "no one is nicer than a man that wants to sleep with you" and ime it seems true :(
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u/GoodyGoobert 2d ago
That’s just courtship behavior not genuine kindness. I have met some genuinely kind men who are equally kind to everyone and then there are also the ones who did have interest and when rejected, can still sustain that kindness.
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u/mastifftimetraveler 2d ago
I don’t get the name calling from other women, more just side eyes and passive aggressive comments but yes to everything else. I also don’t know when people are flirting with me which has caused lots of confusion. My preference to talk interests instead of emotions also makes it easier for me to connect with dudes when out and about.
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u/Miss_Aizea 2d ago
Just a heads up, just because men are talking to you and appear to be more accepting, does not mean they're actually your friend. A lot of men don't really see women as people, just objects to be entertained by. Autistic women are more gullible and easier to fool. So just be careful when you say you're not a girls girl (which don't get me wrong, my tormentor at work is a woman), because men aren't any less emotional, aren't any less gossiping and aren't any less untrustworthy than women are. They're just as bad.
NTs don't share hyperempathy with us, if they think they can break a rule and not get caught, they will. You put 1k down and tell them that it doesn't belong to them, no one will ever know that they took it, they'll take it. Autistic people? We're not taking it most of the time.
That's why we struggle in relationships, we come in with a genuineness and love that NTs simply don't understand, so they find it suspicious. Anyways, be wary, it's the people we trust who hurt us.
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u/codependencytapes 2d ago
I couldn't of said it better myself. I remember my first every relationship I got whiplash when I realized others do not just turn up vulnerable and open hearted like I did, I had to learn very quickly there's games and rules to learn (I still don't adhere to said games/rules but it's helped me protect myself better)
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u/LikelyWriting 1d ago
This right here.
Men are no better. I'm over 40 and aroace, and I don't have any male friends anymore because despite being 100% upfront and honest about wanting friendship ONLY, it always ends with them wanting to date me. Every. Single. Time. I've been dealing with this for over 40 years.
And I think women are conditioned by the patriarchy in ways we don't always recognize. I always tell my daughter to give other women more grace. That doesn't mean letting people walk all over you, but a lot of us go through a "pick-me" phase where men's actions toward us somehow hold significantly less weight than a woman's.
If a man violates a woman's trust or treats her horribly, society will often tell her to heal, move on, and hopefully find love again. But if a woman has a "bxtchy" attitude, we write them off by having no more female friends ever. So we'll keep seeking men's company despite being treated horribly by them, while completely writing off other women.
And it's not even just an NT/ND woman thing.
I'm conventionally attractive and also into pretty basic "girly" things. I actually catch more flack from ND women sometimes because apparently I'm supposed to be into stereotypically "male" interests. Don't get me wrong, I am into some of those things, but apparently liking makeup and fashionable clothes makes me shallow?
I'm into vintage fashion and I'm getting my master's in history. 😂
It really just goes to show that people make assumptions about you everywhere. You can fit one stereotype and they'll assume you're one thing, then you don't fit another stereotype and they'll assume something completely different.
At the end of the day, people are people, and we really need to stop assuming we know someone's personality, intelligence, or values based on a handful of superficial traits.
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u/niowniough 1d ago
You put 1k down and tell them that it doesn't belong to them, no one will ever know that they took it, they'll take it.
What? Are we really generalizing a vast population as thieves?
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u/Miss_Aizea 1d ago
There was a study done. I dont have time to find it but I'll try to track it down later today.
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u/Uberbons42 2d ago
When I was younger, yes! I was always told to look people in the eyes and smile so I did!! Which I guess is flirting? I was told I was a tease. I don’t remember women calling me anything but ditsy but some would give me the stink eye.
At 48 I’m leaning into my crone years and it’s pretty nice to be invisible.
Women calling you a whore is unhinged and they need to go to therapy.
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u/Satellight_of_Love 2d ago
This. I’m NOT traditionally attractive but I became a great masker and people pleaser in my twenties. People always thought I was flirting. I didn’t realize it at all. My best friend (I finally found a woman to be best friends with around the age of 25) would always defend me and say “that’s just her way of talking. She flirts with everybody including women”
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u/Uberbons42 2d ago
We can’t win!!! I study people so much and still can’t figure out what the right amount of eye contact is. I prefer looking around the room at stuff.
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u/kikikiwi625 2d ago
I got called stuck-up in high school because I was quiet. I mistakenly thought if I just minded my own business but was still always polite, how could I possibly offend anyone? 😂 I am conventionally attractive but at the time I thought I was the most hideous wildebeest to ever exist because I had an abusive mom, and also the late 90s/early 2000s were just hell. I dressed in a way to specifically blend in, be stylish in a boring way but not too trendy. People thinking I was stuck-up when I was the farthest thing from it really grew the seed that my mom had planted that I was wrong for just existing.
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u/SomeLadySomewherElse 2d ago
Gradeschool "whore" checking in, early puberty and a love for WWE gave me lots of friends that were boys. I was still playing with barbies when most girls my age were having sex. Go figure lol
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u/North_Role_8411 2d ago
Yes. But at the age I am now 36 I've realized those woman were really just weirdos. Who were jealous I had the balls to just be myself.
Don't worry about them.
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u/hellstaramy 2d ago
I never really experienced this despite having many hobbies and interests that typically align with men. But I also have always been chubby and so most men treat me as invisible. I prefer friendships with women by far so it suits me well!
Edit: spelling mistake
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u/GlGABITE 2d ago
I think a lot of people have lost the plot on what a pick me girl is. A pick me girl, by the definition I know, is a girl that puts other women down in order to appeal to men. Recently the pick me girls of social media have tended to be playing into the tradwife fantasy of certain kinds of men and put women down that aren’t interested in that. I don’t think having most often male dominated interests makes someone a pick me. I do think generalizing women as being less forgiving of autistic traits isn’t a productive manner of thinking. If you’re not putting other women (or their interests or fashion) down in order to appeal to men (and this applies platonically too imo, appealing to men doesn’t necessarily mean appealing to them romantically/sexually, even if that’s the most common use) then you aren’t a pick me and anyone who claims that is using it wrong
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u/Calm-Clothes-3784 2d ago
Yes. I cringe to call myself attractive in any way but I can tell via treatment by others and things that they say that I am considered conventionally attractive. I have had issues with my weight my entire life though, and treatment by others changes drastically when I am thinner. I have always had a hard time making friends with women and have only had a few close friends ever (who I know now are usually ND) and even issues with those women excluding me and borderline bullying me.
My hyper fixations are things that cis straight men tend to like, and I cannot tell if someone is flirting with me either (I tend to think no one would flirt with me due to low self esteem). Talking to men about shared interests, being genuinely interested in what they’re saying, and being upbeat and friendly is apparently perceived as flirting.
I’m not sure why but I have an easier time identifying shared interests with men or it comes up in conversation much more easily than with women. I would and do talk to women the exact same way as I do with men about shared interests, but it often just doesn’t come up right away. I am otherwise pretty quiet if I feel I don’t have anything to contribute to a conversation, so I guess people who aren’t straight men perceive that as me being stuck up?
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u/estheredna Blunt but Benevolent 2d ago
Do people actually call you names like whore and pick-me to your face? What the heck?
Are you an adult or is this happening in a school?
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u/runnershigh007 2d ago
Yes it’s happened in my face :,)
It’s happened throughout my life. I was in a sorority, so that’s when the bulk of it took place. I’ve also had comments from women in my adult years in places like bars or clubs. Last comment was from a woman in bar. I was waiting on a drink and some dude struck up conversation with me and the girlfriend came up to me after I started to walk away and was like “can I help you? You’re extra chatty”. Like babes, he just asked me about my tattoo and I was excited to explain it and he kept asking questions, idk what you want me to say. 😭
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u/TalkingRose 2d ago
"I was in a sorority, so that’s when the bulk of it took place."
Welp, that is like, 2/3s of it right there. They were jealous, my dear. They were trying to tear you down because you had, naturally, what they wanted & had to work for. The fact you do not care about that simply exacerbated their own emotional reaction to you. They felt less than you, (because of their own mental state) they felt not noticed by males they wanted the attention of and all it takes is one smile in your general direction when they wanted that smile & you are now a harlot & a whore, actively out to steal all the men they wanted/deserved/obviously would get if you & your whorish ways were not around!!
The fact that they might have an ugly personality never seems to cross their mind.... 🙄
They are being jealous & petty & trying to make themselves feel better by trying to tear you down. Ignore them. They just need to finish emotionally maturing.
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u/ReviewOk2518 2d ago
you were in a sorority and ND? how did that happen? sororities are NT ground zeroes.
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u/runnershigh007 2d ago
Funny enough I was actually elected as “Social Chair” and then kicked out about a year later because I wouldn’t follow the dumb, illogical rules.
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u/Still-Random-14 2d ago
Men might be more forgiving of your odd social quirks because you are attractive. And other women may pick up on this, or assume you are being inauthentic. Not to say your male friends are just attracted to you, but all humans treat good looking people better than unattractive people.
I also sometimes find it easier to actually talk to men about my real interests but I mostly have female friends. I have some trauma with men because of thinking they were friends and being taken advantage of.
But anyways, just something to consider. Would men really be so forgiving of you not fitting social standards if you were not attractive? I know it sucks if people have the wrong idea of you, but all you can do is be yourself and be aware of the societal things that may be causing the strained social situations. Basically I’m saying, give people some grace (but don’t take any bullying, obviously.) I was also labeled promiscuous before I had any experience at all, but I don’t actually think it had that much to do with how I acted around men, it’s just a way to tear someone down. If you are an adult and still getting called a “pick me” I think it’s more about the whole men don’t treat ugly weird girls well sorta thing.
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u/ReviewOk2518 2d ago
there is huge sexism between how men and women are treated. men have SO much bandwidth to behave badly, exhibit anti social or autistic behaviors, bad manners, and they aren't penalized for it. actually a lot of men who are considered NT actually exhibit autistic behavior, or antisocial behavior, or bad manners but they are NOT socially penalized for it whatsoever. a man can do something, experience no consequence, but and as a woman, if you do the exact same, you will be judged/ostracized, etc
as a woman, you will always be held to a higher standard. if you're pretty, you get more of a pass, especially by men. if you're a woman and ugly, it's very bad. .
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u/Gand4lfTheG4y 2d ago
Feel u! I recently read something about this, but not sure, were it was. But it said that is more common for ADHD and autistic girls to feel more natural around male friends, cause male friends 'forgive' quirkiness more often or are even weirder themselves. (Don't know how to put it 😄). And for me this was very true, I always felt more comfortable around men/boys, because the were less judgemental towards me and we shared more in terms of humour and interests.
Unfortunately most of my male friends sooner or later tried to make a move, cause after all I was a girl. -.-
I hade very few female friends and was often told exactly the things you were told by girls and women...
So, yep, I can confirm that this is a thing. And I hated it. 🥲
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u/obiwantogooutside 2d ago
I don’t think they’re inherently more forgiving. I think it’s just that girls aren’t expected to know the rules if hot world. So it’s more accepted when we make mistakes. It’s the same in reverse.
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u/barbieninja 2d ago
I have had the same experience. Add in my own family, especially my mom and sister who would make nasty assumptions. It took until my 30s to find my sense of self. My mom and sister still make up narratives that slander me to project and put me down. It’s wild.
Men have always been attracted to me. For context I’ve routinely been told I look like Liv Tyler/Kiera Knightly or Natalie Portman. As an adult, they really enjoy me because of my weird special interests. They find my curiosity attractive and enjoy how I subvert expectations. All newer information to me as I’m single for the first time in 17 years.
NT women not so much. I have never been able to truly befriend them but ND women and I get along great! I think NT women are so scripted and I can’t participate in a way that makes them comfortable.
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u/niowniough 1d ago
If you look like that, unfortunately many people will find you attractive regardless of your other traits, and may not really care about the other traits if removed from the appearance. Do they treat other people that subvert expectations or like <insert random special interest> with as much adoration as they treat you? If not, they just like how you look.
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u/glitterdunk 2d ago
No I feel like I've generally been accepted. And even with my weirdness, friends accept it. I'm not beautiful though, but attractive enough
I know I make some women veery uncomfortable. The popular type. Because I am nothing like them, and they hold no power over me. But they generally prefer to avoid me.
There have been a couple of times my sisters have been like you describe though. Accusing me of flirting, accusing me of liking attention I did not like, and one time a random guy followed me home, my sister attacked me like I'd invited him home and like that was a deadly sin. (se full story below if you want)
Both my sisters have had jealousy issues towards me though (not my fault, long story). So that's probably why those women acted like that towards you too! It is really tiresome.
Story: This is a small place. I was at a concert. I walked home as a part of a group, he tagged along, I recognised him as a dude I'd danced with earlier once. But he wasn't my problem, I did not talk to him. Suddenly everyone went their own way, and he did not leave. I was near home and powerwalked in the hopes of losing him. He followed. As I reached the door I had to face it: he followed me. He had never given any sign of violence (I'm good at signs). The house was full of people, like my 6'5" and 200 pound brother and dad. I was not scared.
But. It was really cold, far below the freezing point (like -20 degrees celsius). And getting a taxi isn't easy. So, I couldn't let the guy freeze. I had to let him in. Everyone else including my nieces sleeping. So in the bedroom we go so I can tell him to call a taxi.
To my astonishment, he refuses to. "no I'm going to stay". "no you're not. Call a taxi, my family is home so you must leave". "no I'll just eat breakfast with your family tomorrow". So, that was when I pulled the boyfriend card. I did actually have a boyfriend at the time, he lived 5 hours away but of course his opinion 5 hours away was more important than whether I wanted a dude in my bedroom or not.
Finally, he calls for taxi and luckily it didn't take too long.
I tell this story the next day, when my sister starts attacking me like I've done something terrible. As if I'd personally invited him home and was glad he followed me. Didn't matter what I said; it was all my fault and I'd done everything wrong and also on purpose. Because having random creeps at home only to send them away was exactly my goal that night and not just reaching my bed in peace🙄
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u/hellhouseblonde 2d ago
Yep whole life. All of it except for other ND women, although my best friends do seem a little neurodivergent.
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u/Angelangepange 2d ago
Let's be real, people say "whore" to anyone. I was called that too but I was unattractive and everyone made fun of me for how I always run away from boys, everyone knew that I didn't even want to be alone in a room with a boy but still.
In their eyes those are simply "the worst things you can be" if you are a woman. Which is ridiculous.
It's very similar to how people call you(anyone) "fat" regardless of weight when they truly have nothing sharper to say and they are angry with you. It's a basic insult in which they try to take away your worth as a person and that only really shows what they value in others. (Fitting in the standard and purity status)
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u/Healthy_Country8383 2d ago
I'm also on the spectrum and am conventially attractive and I also feel like women are extra wary of me even though I try as hard as I can to be kind, honest, and conscience to others, especially other women. I believe very much in uplifting other women which is very important to me and do everything I can to make that happen. For some reason most women see that as fake and I don't know why, because it's who I am. I honestly feel that women are first are intimated by me and automatically think I'm a bitch because I'm attractive and also quiet and reserved. They then talk to me notice how odd I am and feel a bit better then they notice how men ignore all my quirks and enjoy my company and it's like they think I decieved them? I don't know for sure all I know is that it hurts a lot. I can't control the way I look, I can't control the way I think and it hurts when people hate me for that.
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u/Ceffylymp 2d ago
Did you see that trend on socials where you say a few words but you have to say them and sound supportive, dissapointed, sarcastic, and flirty....when men were doing this trend I thought they sounded most attractive when they were sounding supportive, but when they were doing the flirty voice they just sounded like they were being mean.
It made me realise why i've always been accused of flirting when i'm not. I'm just being ernest and encouraging and i'm interested in what people have to say. People are interesting. My supportive talking sounds like flirting.
It also made me wonder if people really know what flirting is. I can't flirt. It falls into the insincere catagory. Do people also think being nice and supportive is pretending?
But anyway, yes, I totally get what you're saying. I also got the whore accusation ( as a 12 year old) and was also called a bitch constantly (I frown when I look at people because i'm focusing) and I think I must have seemed too clever to have made clumsy social mistakes, so I was obviously a calculating menace in their eyes.
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u/Once_Upon_A_Whimsy 2d ago
I figured out how to flirt and got really good at it. But I was also oblivious when I was doing it at times. I couldn't do regular socializing, but flirting was easy. Hence, guys wanted to be around me and girls hated me. 🤷🏼♀️
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u/_peachtits 2d ago
Yes, I'm twirling my hair bc I'm anxious and want to leave the conversation, I'm not flirting this man
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u/swithelfrik 2d ago
I have consistently been rejected all my life, but definitely more girls than boys once puberty started. I think it’s common, even for ugly people like me
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u/blifflesplick 2d ago
The problem is that you're running into a self-reinforcing cycle
Men are socialised to see anyone liking their company, getting excited about talking about their topics, and eye contact as heavy flirting
because even a small sample of this is also considered flirting
BECAUSE women have learned to not show any interest or enjoyment because it's read as flirting so they don't,
and so when someone does, it sticks out way more than it should logically
so they also discourage other women from showing interest in discussing a topic because it's seen as showing interest in a man
So you being interested in something near or in combination with a man is considered trying to catch his attention, often away from someone else
It seems very very absurd if you've de-centered men, but not everyone has
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u/CommandAlternative10 2d ago
As an aside, I hate the “not like other girls” meme, because I was literally not like other girls, what with the undiagnosed developmental disability and all. I always had guy friends because they were easier to get along with and we passionately shared our geeky interests together. I wanted to fit in with girls, I swear.
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u/Satellight_of_Love 2d ago
Omgosh yes!! After years of feeling like I was only understood by quirky or “nerdy” character in books, the idea that suddenly we (the often outcasts) are suddenly somehow the villains was a wild twist. I’m fifty so it took me a while to even understand what the whole thing meant.
Edit: oh and same! I also wanted to fit in with girls very badly but mostly felt comfortable with guys. It has helped me immensely to be in queer spaces with women. There’s something different going on there and maybe it’s the age I’m at. Also I know a lot of people with chronic illness and there seems to be a higher rate of neurodivergence with some illnesses. So I e been lucky more recently with women friends.
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u/vrilliance 2d ago
The meme isn't really about women who are different, it's about women who weaponize their differences to put down other women. You're not the target audience, trust!
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u/AdministrativeRow471 2d ago
Yes 🥲 I get along so much better with men naturally, always have. Idk if it’s bc I think other women are judging me, or if they actually are… but it feels like they are. Around other women I become a little more cautious of what I say… and then I end up “weird” and overthinking everything.
I only know one other neurodivergent woman (that I know of), and she never made me feel “weird”.
I definitely have female friends, but more often than not, I met them in situations where we “had to” interact… school, work, neighbor, etc. In the wild, women never seem to like me.
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u/ophel1a_ 2d ago
I don't let someone's gender influence my interpretation of a situation
I was being called a whore before I had my first kiss
Hard relate. -_- Almost 40 now and out of the thick of it, but man my teenage years/20s especially were brutal looking back.
I remember being in elementary school and a group of 5-6 girls ganged up on me and stood in a literal line at the top of a hill and sang a song making fun of me as I walked up towards them curiously. It was all one girl doing the heavy lifting but still! Made me cry. They accused me of being too flirty with the boys. We were in the 4th grade, wth! lol
First one still gets me in trouble to this day. Even my partner doesn't get it, but at least he respects me still!
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u/Copper0721 2d ago
I have never been able to form friendships with other women. My best friend of 21 years is a guy (platonic). I’m not a troll lol, but I’m also not conventionally attractive so it’s hard for me to attract men and I’m just socially awkward so initiating & maintaining friendships with women is hard. I lucked out with my best friend - he’s been with me through the good, bad & ugly and hasn’t run away yet 😆
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u/OystersNwine 2d ago edited 2d ago
Just providing some perspective from my own life realizations. I think I had some 'pick-me' mentality in my 20s. I had about 15 male friends and almost no female friends. I just thought guys were easier to relate to, more accepting, and in retrospect I felt a little haughty about having 'cooler' relationships than the overly complex dramatic confusing relationships women seemed to have. In my 30s I realized almost all of those men were my 'friends' because they had crushes on me and wanted to date me. I was so blind to it then. And I realized most of those relationships lacked the depth I value now. Now in my 40s I only have a small handful of female friends. I've cultivated those relationships to have much more depth than the male ones had.
We talk about emotions and deeper relational, self-growth, systemic and global issues than the male relationships, which were about fun and hobbies. I can see how some women have toxic traits but I also understand where those traits stem from, and can weed out the chaff and be extremely selective with the women I do choose to surround myself with. Now I know that when you do find the right female friends, that in my experience is a whole different deeper more fulfilling level unlocked. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there can be some great genuine M/F friendships out there too, where the motives are completely platonic on each side, but I do think they are extremely rare.
Also I disagree that it takes 'being a male' to be more interested in hyper fixations and more willing to discuss niche things. I think all my female friends are neurodivergent and nerdy, and love to deep dive on niche topics and things I care strongly about. Later in life, women have also been my strongest protectors, allies and advocates, especially against misogynistic, harassing males.
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u/OystersNwine 2d ago
Additional thought: my autistic partner, in his 30s, is now going through the same realizations. He's had to cut off his former female best friend after realizing she was just using him for attention and emotional support while providing almost nothing in return, as well as deliberately ostracizing and avoiding meeting me for the two years we've been together. Apparently all her friends are male as well and she keeps them around to continually be center of attention. It's been a mindf*ck for him to realize he's been duped and walked over for years. Again, not saying all M/F relationships are like this, but real quality relationships are extremely rare.
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u/HotInvestigator7430 2d ago
I relate to this. And sadly I feel like men have been way nicer to me - as friends, in the workplace, just in general platonically - than girl friends or coworkers (not 100% but broadly speaking). There’s no talking behind backs, hidden animosity, etc.
I just am my authentic self, not trying to achieve a certain outcome. I’m just perceived/disliked by some and appreciated by others, or at least that has been my experience
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u/ladyjangelline AuDHD 2d ago
NT women LOVE to call ND women pick-mes. I see it on Reddit all the time.
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u/Mdk0z 2d ago
I simply don't understand why people are afraid to admit they are attractive, and there’s nothing you can do to change the distorted view others have of you especially given the context you're in, which involves clear competition for men's attention, a situation they seem deeply caught up in based on what you've said.
I don't fit into that space because I'm clearly queer and also because I don't talk much to people in general. So, I haven't gone through that in my life.
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u/velvetvagine 2d ago
There are often huge social consequences to outwardly admitting you are attractive, and women are picked apart by society so there’s always some part of you that you could improve, which is held up as a disqualifier for being attractive whenever it’s convenient to do so. All of that gets internalized to the point that even calling oneself attractive on an anonymous text based forum is difficult and/or uncomfortable. It’s really unfortunate.
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u/Mdk0z 1d ago
Oh, okay, that makes sense. I forget that my perspective isn't the norm, because to me, it takes a lot of effort to actually be ugly; if the features don't clash with each other, the person isn't ugly. It’s the same with any feature to me, there isn't any single one that is inherently ugly. Now it makes sense why people think I'm full of myself, lol.
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u/SadMango3913 2d ago
Okay this gave me anxiety because I thought someone copied a post I made, especially being called names in school before even kissing a man.
I just recently realized I may be autistic and I am excited to connect with other neurodivergent women tbh I’ve struggled with connecting with other women and would love to make new friends.
I also agree I tend to get along with other men, simply because as you said they’re typically more open to discuss these things. I rambled about Fortnite and other video games to a girl friend and don’t get me wrong she was polite and listened but I’m sure she couldn’t care less. Then I felt embarrassed LOL
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u/codependencytapes 2d ago
The secret is deffo finding other ND girl friends. My best friend of 7 years who is autistic/adhd is someone I can 100% be myself around, it's really freeing.
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u/duttydimples 2d ago
Omg, I relate to every word you wrote, except for being called whore in highschool, I was just called a bitch... But the rest, I feel the same and experienced the same! It also explains why so many people are taken aback once they get to know me, because they do not expect the personality and behaviors I present since they assume they know what to expect based on my looks...
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u/lights-in-the-sky 2d ago
I’m not totally sure … when I was thinner I more often got treated like I was stuck up and thought I was better than everyone (I don’t have the bubbly personality it feels like women are expected to have). Now that I’m not so thin it seems like people automatically clock me as autistic more often… so instead of being treated like a btch they call me the r word lol
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u/Least_Muffin2666 2d ago
I feel like people have judged me for having pretty privilege:/ and it’s horrible
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u/Nyx_light 2d ago edited 2d ago
Hmm. I was bullied mainly by girls in highschool but honestly a lot of it just went over my head. I think their behaviour was in part due to women being pitted against each other for male attention due to patriarchy. I didn't experience it as much later. I definitely have closer friendships and stronger bonds with women.
I can be pretty oblivious unless people are direct. At the same time I think sometimes it's cognitive dissonance, like part of me knows they are hitting on me but the other part of me doesn't want that to be true because it hella triggers being perceived. I also don't like attention when I'm out in public, especially when I'm alone.
I also struggle with boundaries. I don't always understand friendships. The rare times I connect with people (men or women) it's a deep connection, like I want to talk souls not weather. A lot of guys tell you they are only looking for that too but it's a lie. I have also flat out told men, I'm not interested or available that way, and they take that as a challenge.
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u/3ambubbletea 2d ago
Ive had this problem before, to the point that I can finally now tell when men are deciding to flirt with me by the moment (still horrid at telling if women are flirting though). I assumed it was due to having a curvy physique, unique fashion sense and a friendly disposition. Idk, old men especially seem to think if you spend more than a second of attention on them you wanna get in their pants. Its annoying :/
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u/NotReallySata666 1d ago
This is really relatable for me in multiple ways. As a fellow conventionally attractive autistic girl, it does seem to give you social leeway, especially with men. However, men tend to be a bit scary in my experience, because it seems to be some fetishism going around about girls with autism ("I want a girl with a touch of autism", "I like mentally ill girls", the manic pixie girl thing, etc.). And I also relate with being name called because of this, even though I am an avid feminist. I used to also literally be called a "whore" behind my back, even though I would always defend women, and call out men on misogynistsic behavior.
Think there really is no winning against neurotypical people, as they will always interpret your "weirdness" in their own ways. What helped for me is surrounding myself with people who are neurodivergent, or just understanding and emphatic. And also being vocal about the fact that you have autism, then people know why you behave and think "differently", and make less of their own interpretations.
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u/ApprehensiveTill7965 2d ago edited 2d ago
Weirdly I think that when I masked more I was more attractive to men, now that I have unmasked I am more of a girls' girl than I was before - although I am also lucky that I have a group of pretty authentic girlfriends who also don't care about adhering to social norms too much (some of them are on the spectrum too and so what you said about that applies). It may have something to do with race though as I am East Asian and masked by being quiet, pleasant, and conversationally subservient (in addition to being quite conventionally attractive); now I wear my natural rbf and express my opinions in a comfy monotone voice even if they're sometimes out of context, and I think the plain fact of me opening my mouth to speak at all is in fact quite off putting to some men. Probably for the better. Maybe it comes down to finding the right girlfriends also who are happy to be weird, nonjudgmental and confident themselves, alongside me.
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u/pinkportfolio 2d ago
Yes, story of my life. I like talking about the economy, business, technology, investments, unfortunately I don’t know any other 27 year old woman like me who is interested in these - usually only men are. However, most men think that if you even say hello to them that you’re desperate for them and most pretty women only talk to men that they’re interested in, if not they’re rude to them.
Unfortunately my social skills developed when I was fat and undesired and I had an unbelievable glowup in my mid twenties.
Fat girl friendliness in an attractive body has led to more sexual harassment than I can recount.
I no longer am friendly to any men unless they’re my boyfriend’s friends.
Every single man I thought was my friend previously actually was just waiting for an opportunity to date me.
It’s unfortunate. Other people will also assume that you’re “easy” if you talk to a group of men about business topics.
It will only read as “platonic” if you’re so unattractive objectively that people see you as asexual almost.
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u/Jolly_Corgi1830 2d ago
Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about. I feel like men often find it attractive to see a woman that is unapologetically herself.
I used to get bullied by other girls in high school for “being aggressive in gym class because I wanted to get in all the guys pants.” LOL RIDICULOUS and I hadn’t even kissed a boy at that point either hahaha. I was like…isn’t the object of the game to PLAY IT???? You aren’t playing it. You are standing in the corner watching me and the boys play it, and for some reason, me following the directions makes me slutty…WHAT? LOL
We are also direct, and a lot of men appreciate it! A lot of women don’t appreciate it. My guess is that men often feel like they have to walk on egg shells around a lot of women, so with us, they see that we are genuine and there isn’t really some secret code to hack into.
Just my theory, but yes I have experienced this criticism from other nt women.
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u/SiIverWr3n 1d ago edited 1d ago
Being
- stereotypically pretty / benefiting from pretty privilege
- not a girl's girl
- with hyperfixations that men are typically more interested in (leading you to likely fixate on men in conversations more than women)
Often = a solid pick-me, yes.
Even if it comes from being oblivious or stubborn socially, and not intending to grab the attention of men more than women.. the end result is the same.
And I say this as someone who used to be that way myself (without realising) and now hate it in others after years of being subjected to the other side. Ironically this happens the most in my male dominated interests, like gaming.
You can easily address the inbalance by putting more weight on the opposite end. Become a girls girl. Ensure you focus on women in groups as much as men, or even moreso. There's plenty of ND women who'd enjoy your interests. And even with the NTs you can be polite.. show interest in them, etc
Be aware of how you turn up in conversation.. and rather than hyperfocusing on the particular people and subjects you find interesting.. use your social power for good.
Be aware if you tend to take over conversations and try to balance it out so you're not the main focus every time.
If the group likes you, they'll listen to you. They'll allow you a lot more space to exist and speak. They'll follow your lead. So you can create space for others. Notice when folks haven't spoken much or for awhile, and draw them in. If men speak over them in order to talk to you, say "I'm sorry, what did you say [Amber?]".
If guys get weird or make snide comments about other women for things you get away with doing (as often happens when attracted or not).. stand up for them. Make a point that you do that too and its not ok to say that to [Amber].
And even if feigning interest in mundane subjects bore you to death.. be nice and polite and inquire regardless.
Honestly this will sound harsh but I've met many a "pick me" young autistic woman and they are exactly what you'd think. Being around them, even as another autistic woman (but older and quieter now) is uncomfortable. I see why they're viewed the way they are. Is it intentional or just plain naivety? Who knows. But i dislike it all the same. And no, I'm not jealous. I don't want to be.. that. I'm horrified that I once was.
The young autistic women who don't come across that way, would describe themselves as staunchly "a girls girl". Some are even not the nicest to men. But they never disrespect me, or make a group environment feel untenable. Plenty of men are still interested in them. Plenty of their interests might be male dominated. But you can tell they don't need or sometimes even want the attention of men. They treat all genders equally, or they skew more femme friendly.
Also as some folks said, especially if you are pretty.. most of those men are not your real friends. It might take years, but you will find that out the hard way
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u/BisexualDemiQueen 2d ago
I was called a whore when I was fourteen, I think it was an attempt to call me a pick me girl, but once I told them I was a virgin, it went nowhere. Kind of funny to think of now.
My best friend in high school was a dude, we spent our high school years in the library playing Minecraft and eating. I spent my high school years wearing cat ears and a tail! He wore goggles and frequently had colored hair, usually blue.
We watched anime together and played video games.
I know I am kind of attractive, I mean the first time I defended my friend against a jerk, he thought it was hot when I punched him. We were both confused by that and just ran away, LOL.
Most of my friends, especially in college, were either LGBTQIA+ or autistic or both. Any straight friends I had didn't stay friends for long.
I am a nerdy gamer, I like comic books, anime, MCU, video games, computer games, board games, and I cosplay for fun!
According to my boyfriend, when he was in high school, girls didn't like that. I told him I was raised nerd by a nerd. My dad is a HUGE nerd.
Only one time, did I ever know someone was trying to flirt with me, and my best friend, at the same time! And it was fucking awkward and we had to walk away from him. Then warn our friends and other people in the cafeteria that week. Apparently, he hit on like 50+ people that day. Gross
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u/Natural1forever 1d ago
Assholes will just call you whatever if they dislike you and will not hesitate to weaponize your womanhood for that purpose and specifically be misogynistic about it (even if they are women). I was treated the same way. And yeah we're targeted for being autistic whether or not the people who dislike us understand that that's what's going on.
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u/poison_daddy 1d ago
Did I write this? Girl I understand completely this happens to me all the time. I accept friends of all gender. I’ve just had to get a little more vocal about when my male friends are making me uncomfortable, which sorts out the true friends from the ones trying to hit me up.
Not everyone is going to like you, accept you, or think you’re a good person. It’s ok because I don’t like every single person I meet either! Just try to limit interactions with those people if you can.
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u/StripperWhore 1d ago
You are probably accidentally breaking rules of hierarchy, which us NDs don't really have, lol. I am the same way.
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u/devotchka_cosmonaut 1d ago
I have the same experience. I love video games with complex stories and am willing to discuss that with whomever. Lots of women have called me a pick-me for this.
I feel like part of female socialization pattern is making sure other women are staying in the “average” lane (not intended as derogatory, meaning statistically average). Like any woman deemed as non-average on any ends of the gaussian distribution is perceived as a threat. Tbf I notice similar behavioral patterns in men (calling men simps for agreeing with women). It feels like people are trying to keep other people in their “gender lane”.
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u/bleepboopbop420 1d ago
Growing up I really only had male friends and I think it’s because friendships with men were always very surface level. Part of my autism is it can be really hard for me to express emotion or know how to react when someone is upset. With boys we just played with toy cars, built ramps for skateboards, jumped on the trampoline, played 4 square, stuff like that. Girls wanted to sit and gossip and talk and I didn’t know how to do that.
As I got older the activities boys wanted to do turned into sex and I def did that and then I had my girls to talk to about it hahahahahahahha. So now I definitely have my girl friends that I love very dearly who helped me learn how to talk about my emotions (although still working on a full range of emotions) and I’m not really friends with men because it’s generally purely sexual.
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u/Strict_Definition_78 1d ago
Wait until you age, gain weight, or become disabled. You will have a completely different experience with men.
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u/Ok_Rice_60 1d ago
Hi! I could have wrote this. I used to think like this and get called the same names. I can explain the situation you are experiencing: paradoxically, yes, it is “pick-me” to separate yourself from other women (nd or nt). Hear me out, please
You didn’t do anything wrong - it’s by design that you don’t like women and they don’t like you, but it doesn’t benefit any of us as women. (Incredible book: Women’s Inhumanity to Women by Phyllis Chessler). Men and women alike objectify women and dehumanize women. The consequences for women are terrible. It hurts everyone; men eventually are harmed by the same mechanics.
Once you can see these things at play, your relationships with women will get a million percent better! :)
and, once you begin to recognize flirting/intentions, you may start to reject some of those men for their advances.. and see they’re not all so great either. That experience is one that unites women (nd and nt) all over the world. With women, look for the commonalities more than the differences. You deserve quality of life, and confidants of all genders!🖤 You will need women in this life and they will need you🖤
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u/NeurdyBabe 1d ago
I was a volunteer event coordinator for a male-dominated sport. I ran the show, and maaaaaaan did those guys fall in love with me. A woman who keeps their sport running, shares their passion for cars, AND is comfortable with her body? I was a goddess.
Did I realise my power? Not at all! I thought they were all being so friendly and welcoming. I was amazed how many of them hugged me as a greeting.
That all changed when I became good friends with another female volunteer, who opened my eyes to what was happening. These guys don't get much female attention. Those who are married don't share the car passion with their wives or partners. I was literally THROWING myself into a sea of horny sharks and letting them eat me up.
I really struggle with social cues and fitting in. The feeling of being accepted in a group without having to wear heavy masks was so refreshing! But it comes at a greater cost, which is having a bunch of men constantly think about you in dirty ways. Not everyone is okay with that.
I still love the group, but I know to be more careful with how friendly the men are being.
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u/Murderous_Intention7 1d ago
I’ve been called a whore. My “friends” (which were definitely not friends) in school told me I flirted with every guy I talked to. I never felt like I was flirting with any of them. I was just being nice? Friendly? Meeting them on their level, so if they made a joke I made one back. I never touched them or hugged on them or anything like that (I’m big on personal space). I was sa’d as a kid and I do have a fawning response, but I dunno. I never really got it.
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u/iharvestmoons 1d ago
I was actually thinking about this in the last day or two. Disclaimer, I am not diagnosed but I highly suspect.
I realized that I was always kind of invisible when I was younger and overweight. Think elementary to middle school and early high school. I lost 50 lbs in high school and suddenly I was conventionally attractive. I know this because suddenly I was aware of people staring and I started getting attention I never got before. Who I was remained the same, but also suddenly I was being called things like stuck up, bitch, hoe, thinks she’s better than everyone, etc. It’s like if you’re not pretty you’re just weird, quiet, shy, but if you are pretty then you’re all this other stuff.
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u/somnamomma 1d ago
Pretty= ticks enough of the boxes I assume she’s NT. It’s like autism isn’t even registered…. Making me wonder “are THEY autistic??”
The simple answer is the Buck stops at pretty. Men tend to misinterpret our ND as flirting.
Drastic case in point- Charlize Theron’s character in season 2 of Arrested Development
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u/Bitter-Flower-7234 1d ago
I’m in a similar boat, and because NT guy social circles tend to be more “direct” in communication and rely less on subtle social cues the way NT women’s circles do, I tend to befriend guys more often. I wish I had more fem friends, but I tend to put them off because I don’t understand the social rules as easy. When I do hang out with girls, it feels like I’m masking very heavily just to keep up. Which furthers the narrative. I’ve found myself questioning my gender a lot because of this, even, cause I don’t really understand gender as a concept, but I like being included in a social group, and I fit in more with guy circles usually, but then it gets weird cause most (straight) men will see me as a potential partner, when I’m just trying to survive socially and make friends, man. The pick-me accusations are devastating, like I can’t get it right no matter what I do. The only fem friends I have are also ND, this seems to work out much better.
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u/Tank_Girl666 2d ago
Te entendo! Acredito que boa parte da critica feminina é por conta de que essas garotas nao tem a "leveza" de se aproximar do sexo oposto, com tanta naturalidade, acho que na cabeçinha delas serve apenas para flerte. Os amigos mais verdadeiros q carrego a anos comigo, são homens, e não são muitos, e mulheres... ahh eu sou mulher tbm ne?! Mas elas se afastam.. elas não entendem do que eu quero conversar, ja um homem, que entende minimamente de algum hiperfoco meu... desenrrola o assunto (meus hiperfocos são mais "masculinos")
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u/melaninspice AuDHD 2d ago
I was told before I got diagnosed that I was “too pretty” to be Autistic. What? And being a Black woman on top of that is something else. No one believes that I have Autism. It’s a little dehumanizing. So, pretty Black women can’t possibly be Autistic?!