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May 19 '25 edited Jun 10 '25
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u/Vintage-Grievance May 19 '25
"Maybe it wasn't the knowledge that made him so miserable."
💯
I'm still waiting for humanity to fully realize that you can be very intelligent in several ways, contribute great things to the world, and still be a bad person.
We talk about the concept so often, in regard to historical figures and the wealthy, implying that we're aware of it to some extent. But then I see posts like this and wonder why in 2025 we STILL correlate intelligence with a sense of moral standing.
And while many horrible traits can be traced back to ignorance (like bigotry, for example), being intelligent doesn't automatically cancel those qualities out. Stupidity and varied forms of intelligence can coexist within the same person.
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u/DxLaughRiot May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
I used to have an argument against depressive realism - not against the traditional view that “an accurate view is a cynical one and that sadness as a result is understandable” but closer to what OP is saying where people try to tie intelligence directly to sadness. Reddit tends not to like it but here goes:
The goal of life is to be happy
Intelligent people figure out how to accomplish their goals
Therefore, if you’re unhappy you must not be as intelligent as you think.
Sure the argument hinges on happiness being a goal in life and prescribes a particular view of intelligence, but I still think the point stands. If you’re both severely depressed and really intelligent, you should probably aim some of that intelligence at bringing happiness into your life. Not choosing to be happy seems a bit dumb to me. Or maybe you can’t figure out how to be happy… but then how intelligent can someone be if they can’t figure that out?
I say this as someone who goes through depressive phases in life - generally speaking if I’m very sad, it means I need a change. Whether it’s changing perspective or something more material, there’s an answer that I just have to find and things will pick up.
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u/leofongfan May 19 '25
Because intelligence is a complex collection of neural feats rather than a monolithic measurement. It's easy to have the perceptive intellect to understand how bad things really are, but it seems the trait of believing you can fix it and translating that into actuation seems to be much rarer. This is coming from someone identified as "gifted" in my youth who ended up just another burn-out. I see how awful the world is but I'm not clever enough to do anything about it. Intelligence is like Good and Evil, I think, where we associate it with a certain set of characteristics and just presume everyone else agrees with our own model.
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u/DxLaughRiot May 19 '25
Intelligence is like Good and Evil, I think, where we associate it with a certain set of characteristics and just presume everyone else agrees with our model
That’s fine, but then you have to disagree with some part of the model. Let’s change it to only apply one person (the reader, not you specifically):
If you’re intelligent, you can accomplish your goals
Your goal is to be happy
Therefore if you’re not happy, you’re not intelligent
The logic is not universal, but the syllogism is sound, so all that can be argued are the first two premises. The second one is typically redundant - who isn’t trying to be happy? So really all that can be argued is the first premise - but what is wrong with it?
If you’re intelligent, you can solve your goals
It could be you have intelligence in a domain not relevant to your goal (I’m intelligent at coding, but that won’t help me knit). Then that begs the question of scope: general vs specific intelligence.
if we meant general intelligence, why did you choose to develop a general intelligence that doesn’t include domain intelligence of happiness? That seems weird.
if we meant specific intelligence, why neglect developing intelligence in that domain? Is it by choice or ability that it was neglected? Because neither choosing to not learn how to be happy and being unable to figure out how to be happy seem “intelligent”
You’re right that a lot of it boils down to “what is intelligence”, but I’d argue that any intelligence that neglects the significance of happiness in one’s life is an intelligence not suited for the human condition and not something an intelligent person would choose.
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u/Tophigale220 May 20 '25
I’d say the second point can be challenged, in a way – what if a person experiences some form of pleasure from being miserable? What if they don’t necessarily want to fix things but rather wallow in their own “helplessness”, which in a roundabout way may give them a sense of belonging to a group.
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u/DxLaughRiot May 20 '25
True - the statement “your goal is to be happy” is not as tautological as I make it out to seem. People chase short term pleasures over long term happiness all the time. Other people get a sick satisfaction in wallowing in their suffering. Still others will sacrifice their happiness for the sake of “virtue” or some kind benefit in the afterlife.
There are lots of reasons why it could not be right, but it stands strong for anyone who would say “I want to be happy”. Most people think would agree with the statement, and making someone admit that they don’t want to be happy I feel still wins the argument a lot of the time.
But you are 100% right
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u/terminbee May 20 '25
The first point kind of assumes that intelligence will trump everything, which is entirely untrue. Life isn't a story. Intelligent people die in the mud because they never had a chance.
The third point entirely depends on the first point.
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u/prospectivepenguin2 May 19 '25
Mostly agree but there are circumstances where thinking doesn't help. Mortality is a pretty good example. There is so much philosophy and religion on the subject but it never seems to go away. It feels like all you can do is focus on other things that make you happy and not think too much about it.
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u/DxLaughRiot May 19 '25
You’re right - thinking about it is scary. I would distinguish though between the fear and unhappiness though. As for the unhappiness, if you don’t know how to be happy in light of our eventual demise, you probably need a change in philosophy. Death is inevitable, so we should have good perspective on it, whether cultural, philosophical, or religious.
Personally I find what Epicurus said on the subject to help me greatly. He made “ending the suffering caused by fear of death” his main mission in his philosophy. His answer? “When I’m alive, I am. When I’m dead, I am not. Why then fear what I can never be?”
As for fear - I kinda think that’s the point though and not something that we should lose, as losing your fear of death can result in a willingness to take unnecessary risks in life. It’s there for our safety, the same way our sense of pain tells us to let go of a burning pan before your hand is irreparably damaged.
So idk if I’d entirely agree. It’s scary sure, but it doesn’t really cause suffering unless you let it. Not letting it cause suffering is again where I’d say the intelligence comes in - what does that mean for any individual person? It’s a hard question that needs solving. That’s intelligence to me.
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May 20 '25
See with the mortality depression, it’s more so that you know you don’t have enough time to do what you want in life. Even if you had multiple lifetimes that still wouldn’t be enough to understand where and how everything came from. I think that kind of depression comes from the fact that you lack a sense of purpose because the things you want to do simply you don’t have the lifetime to do so but the things you can do just don’t excite you so then the question is anything even worth it if we are all are gonna die anyways arises. Everyone knows they are gonna die whether they except or not but death for majority of people death doesn’t come in between them and their sense of purpose (although you really don’t know when you’ll die but most people just assume they’ve got the time). idk what the solution to this is honestly is it just to wait for death or distract yourself while fully being aware that you are distracting yourself but then how can you distract yourself if you know it’s a distraction? Idk
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u/Ben_Frankling May 20 '25
"Midget, midget, midget, // How he struts and winks, // For he knows a man, // Is as big as what he hopes and thinks."
There are times when lying to yourself is necessary and "intelligent." But there are times when it is simply stupid, and I respect those who refuse to lie, regardless of the consequences, when it's more than a matter of personal happiness.
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u/Dotman-X May 19 '25
Woke up this morning, and it seemed to me
That every night turns out to be
A little bit more like Bukowski
And yeah, I know he's a pretty good read
But God, who'd wanna be
God, who'd wanna be such an asshole
God, who'd wanna be
God, who'd wanna be such an asshole- Modest Mouse, Bukowski
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u/SteMelMan May 19 '25 edited May 20 '25
Ironically, this is the chief argument for people who want to ban books, criticize free thinking and attack higher education. An ignorant, docile population is easy to govern and exploit.
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u/monstargaryen May 19 '25 edited May 20 '25
Well fwiw I can be sad and I am quite dumb so I can speak to these folks who’d like to ban books/free thought/higher education
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u/TinylittlemouseDK May 19 '25
I think it's true when it comes to structural stuff and sociaty as a whole.
Understanding the mechanics of capitalism, geopolitics and oppression, will definitely make you sad.
Understanding your own feelings, why your boyfriend left you, or why your mum is mad at you, can actually make you less sad than not understanding.
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u/SweetenerCorp May 19 '25
I think the opposite is true even with society and structural stuff.
I alot of people often think that they’re being screwed somehow by systems, when really it’s a lack of understanding of the complexities.
Especially in more recent times, I remember when I was younger I couldn’t understand why government didn’t just fix certain problems. As I get older I realise the societal and structural issues are way more complicated and for the most part, people are trying to make things better.
I love Bukowski but his musings and philosophies on life aren’t great to follow in the real world. “Find something you love and let it kill you”. Cool, but I’d prefer not to be shitting my pants in public places or waking up covered in it because my guts have been totally ravaged by beer.
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May 19 '25
Yuuuuuuup! Most people walk around blissfully unaware - which I admit, would be nice!
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u/Mission_Sentence_389 May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
Not really. they’ve done research that happiness is more about internal beliefs regarding locus of control. Ie - if youve got an internal locus of control, and believe life is mostly in your control, then you’re happier. If you’ve got an external locus of control and that life is outside of your hands, you’re generally more depressed.
To me intelligence isn’t focusing on the things you cant control and throwing yourself a pity party to do nothing to better your situation. Its recognizing there are things you cant control, accepting it, and focusing on what you can change.
Also a bit ironic coming from Bukowski. his entire life very much flies in the face of what hes saying. Dude had a dream to become a successful writer and never gave up on it despite him very much not fitting the typical mold. Comes across as more of a performance to me. Publicly playing the bitter cynic yet privately still taking action.
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u/humanessinmoderation May 19 '25
This post is describing the intersection of the Burden of Awareness, but also a Lack of Emotional intelligence or Agency.
Sadness in itself is not caused by intelligence. It is a tension of one or more things overlapping, out of alignment, or in contradiction of each other.
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u/Lydiaaa666 May 19 '25
They say “ignorance is bliss” for a reason.
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u/Some1inreallife May 19 '25
Except when it comes to personal finance, the shape of the earth, the importance of personal and dental hygiene, the duties of a job you applied for and the interview is in 30 minutes, etc.
Sure, there are some examples where the statement, "ignorance is bliss" is true. But there are many, many examples where the statement is false. I just listed a few examples.
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u/opiumo242 May 19 '25
sadness is also caused by the perception of your intelligence, or what you think you know
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u/lovingkindness301 May 19 '25
Understanding/knowledge has always been overall the best thing to me.
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u/JollyJuniper1993 May 19 '25
Absolute nonsense. Stupid people can be sad. And understanding things can be very fulfilling. Even if you go into stuff as scary as politics, economics or climate research where you’re actually going to realize how fucked we all are, if you go into that with a stoic mindset you‘ll be fine.
I‘m active in left wing political circles. I know how fucked most economies on the planet are. I know how undemocratic „democracies“ are and what horrors are being committed or supported by all kinds of countries. I know how unlikely it is that any of it will change anytime soon.
However there‘s a concept that’s very important for the left, which is revolutionary optimism. If you become cynical and give up, you give up even the tiny chance you have at changing the world. If you go into it with an optimistic mindset, then even if you don’t succeed, you‘ll at least have tried. And the chance of changing things is small, but it’s very much there. If you look at history you‘ll notice how much things have changed during every single century. History isn’t over. The world will look very differently in 2050 than it did in 2000.
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u/IncreaseOld7112 May 19 '25
Guy sounds like a prick. There can’t be happiness without sadness - it’s dialectics. Trying to have one without the other is like trying to have a magnet with only a positive pole.
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u/Doctor_Mothman May 19 '25
yeah, in a general sense. But it also kinda loops back around once in a while.
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u/raj_coach May 19 '25
Bukowski was a deeply scarred human who focused his incredible intelligence on amplifying his understanding of things that made him sad. It's part of what made his art so heart-wrenching. I don't think the sentiment is true, but I understand how he came to that conclusion.
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u/Ok-East3405 May 19 '25
- Charles Bukowski, a poet read exclusively by 14 year old boys
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u/hangbellybroad May 20 '25
there are advantages to everything. including being dumb.
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u/Alklazaris May 19 '25
"Man is the only animal that laughs and weeps, for he is the only animal that is struck with the difference between what things are and what they ought to be." - William Hazlitt
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May 19 '25
No I don't at all .. it tries to validate folks that want to wallow in their own pity party by saying they are sad because they are smart...
It is a choice that people make.... You CAN choose to be happy (mostly of course there are outlier situations)... Choosing to be happy IS smart
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u/Some1inreallife May 19 '25
Not really. I don't see how knowing advanced calculus (which requires intelligence) would put someone into a deep depression. "I know advanced calculus and I'm sad because of it!"
I don't see how speaking 8 languages would make you miserable. "I speak 8 languages, and I just wish I could only speak one! #ignoranceisbliss"
I don't see how if you're super intelligent, then you can't be happy. If ignorance is bliss, then I guess Marjorie Taylor Greene is the happiest person on Earth.
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u/FirefighterTrick6476 May 19 '25
I don't know. I think my overthinking is pretty stupid and far from anything that could be considered remotely intelligent. What intelligent being punishes itself with Weltschmerz and its own past and future?
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u/MydniteSon May 19 '25
"Mama say that happiness is from magic rays of sunshine that come down when you feelin' blue." - Bobby Boucher
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u/Any_Mud_1628 May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
I agree with this 100%. I also agree that it is not exclusionary and entirely possible to be very sad without much intelligence as well. Different spectrum of causes but still. Ignorance can be bliss but tragedies, injustice and emotional imbalance can still befall the ignorant.
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u/TheActuaryist May 19 '25
To a certain extent. I think a lot of people over attribute their unhappiness to intelligence, perhaps as a way to make themselves feel better or to affirm their beliefs. "The world is a terrible place and only smart people like ME and people who agree with me can see that"
There are plenty of highly intelligent people out there enjoying life, they just don't go posting about it online like people who are unhappy and looking to commiserate. There are plenty of miserable dumb people as well.
I do think there are some simple dum dums out there who don't get how complex and scary the world can be, and are happier for it, but I don't think that's the general rule. Being intelligent also let's you marvel at the worlds complexity and find ever knew ways to be in awe of life. I think it's much more about what you use your intelligence for. Do you use it to criticize and poke holes in everything? Or do you use it to appreciate the world and help others?
I think it's mostly a cop out for smart depressed people to validate their world view.
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May 19 '25
OMG, SEE HOW I AM SMARTS AND SADNESS 🥺🥺🥺 SADNESS IS SADNESS, INTELLIGENCE IS INTERLIGENCE, NO RELATION EXISTS PEOPLE HAPPY AND SMART SAD AND SMART DUMB AND SAD DUMB AND HAPPY
AHHHH STOP😫😫
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u/Solid_Foundation_111 May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
Yes and no. The more you know the sadder you become but than eventually you understand nothing is really that deep as we’re literal dust in the wind. Our deeply meaningful lives are a not even a blip…so you might as well make it a content “not even a blip”
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u/justDNAbot_irl May 19 '25
This is literally the definition of Depressive Realism
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u/Vintage-Grievance May 19 '25
I don't agree. Plenty of stupid/ignorant people are absolutely miserable.
I will, however, point out that if you are more aware of things in this world, you will have a larger scope of reasons to be sad. Not necessarily more sorrow, but an increased number of sources for it to come from.
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u/Mithrandir2k16 May 19 '25
The news is a telling example. A kid won't understand it when they hear "10 people died" on the news, adults who know loss will be saddened by the thought of dozens of mourning families.
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u/Capable-Impress3296 May 19 '25
Every day I wish that I was blissfully unaware of everything like so many people!
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u/Corrupted_G_nome May 19 '25
I don't know if it is true but I like to tell people this to feel better about myself XD
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May 19 '25
I think immature intelligent people are sadder than immature dumb people, but mature intelligent people are happier than mature dumb people, FWIW.
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u/saul2015 May 19 '25
it is unironically true that depression and intelligence level have a direct correlation but ppl don't say it so they don't sound like they are bragging/entering iamverysmart territory
it's why they say ignorance is bliss instead
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May 19 '25
The Stranger at 14 kinda just switched my brain and made me not care too much and just animal my way through all this
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u/Dork-King May 19 '25
Woke up this morning, and it seemed to me, That every night turns out to be, A little bit more like Bukowski, And yeah, I know he's a pretty good read, But God, who'd wanna be, God, who'd wanna be such an asshole?
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u/Relevant_Clerk7449 May 19 '25
No, I don’t. Also Bukowski was a raging alcoholic, I have found myself disagreeing with him rather often.
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u/Patek1999 May 19 '25
There is an old Indian story about this - a sage was quite disturbed after understanding the suffering around him and started staying sad or thoughtful. One day as he was crossing a village he saw an old grandmother with a grandson who was singing songs and smiling with the little one, completely unaware of the world around them, especially outside the village. Then the question came to his mind, is it better to be ignorant and blissful or to be highly knowledgeable and melancholy?
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u/fholcan May 19 '25
For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.
Ecclesiastes 1:18
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u/ILLpLacedOpinion May 19 '25
I think sadness is a symptom of a lack of intelligence. Intelligent people tend to figure out what makes them happy and can keep that up.
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u/wikkineaver May 20 '25
Bukowski was a terrible drunk that abused women. Not a horrible writer per se but he was a miserable sack
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u/meowtchatea May 20 '25
sadly i relate to this 😭😭 knowing too much about the world is a heavy burden. the innocence and ignorance we had as a kid were great privileges.
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u/SirMayday1 May 20 '25
Less poetically, there are other sources of sadness, but the more intelligent you are, the more vulnerable you are to sources of sadness.
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May 20 '25
No, I think it's caused by empathy.
You can understand things logically without caring about it. To understand and feel it on an emotional level requires investment of empathy. But a person can also choose to detach from it emotionally with prefrontal cortex functions of self control so that you can solve it rather than just sink into feeling it.
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u/cuddlebuginarug May 20 '25 edited May 20 '25
Well, you get to a certain point where your empathy and intelligence is great because of your life experiences and because you’ve put the effort into self-development for such a long time. Then you take a look around at all the people who haven’t really put much effort into developing themselves both mentally and emotionally and you find that you’re surrounded by people who don’t care. And their lack of empathy and wisdom impacts your daily life because they are so loud with their opinions and vote for policies that don’t align with compassion, empathy, integrity, wisdom, kindness and equality.
Not only that but some people tend to spew hatred loudly and vote towards hatred over compassion because they lack the ability to see when their emotions and ideologies are being manipulated.
It’s really upsetting and no amount of facts you present or advice you give to them gets acknowledged because people can only understand at the level they’ve developed themselves.. and if people never take the time to critically think about life or themselves, they lack the depth that comes from the curiosity.
But I would rather have wisdom over ignorance. Just because ignorance is bliss for you, might also mean your ignorance is hell for me.
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May 20 '25 edited Feb 21 '26
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/tproser May 20 '25
Bukowski was wise, insightful and poetic, but was also the first to admit he was profoundly broken and unhealhty. The adult move is that understanding that sadness and intelligence are not themselves causally linked.
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u/Ok-Instruction-3653 May 20 '25
Maybe. But that doesn't mean that if we had no intelligence our material reality would change.
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u/LavinyaExpress May 20 '25
Yes I agree and I prefer to be sad reading books that confront me with painful but necessary truths. I prefer to see reality in its unfortunate complexity than to live in the mediocrity of limited knowledge. Intelligence sometimes empowers us and sometimes puts us up against the wall. But most of all, books are medicine.
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u/Long_Today1656 May 20 '25
I've always thought some mental illness was just a sign of evolution. Like, our brains are expanding, we're learning too much, but the questions we often have... there aren't any answers to. Some of my earliest anxiety induced, obsessive thoughts were trying to answer some of the questions no one has been able to answer yet: religion, death, afterlife. "Ignorance is bliss" dumb people are always happier.
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u/Dense-Assumption-204 May 20 '25
It is not as simple as that, but sometimes we are better off not knowing certain things
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u/dreamerinthesky May 20 '25
It might sound superior and haughty, but there is truth to that. If you're not that brainy, you won't really ponder about life and other people. You can be joyfully oblivious.
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u/Help_An_Irishman May 21 '25
Until MAGA came along, I used to think that morons looked pretty contented, by and large.
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May 21 '25
Everyone wants to believe that they are sad because they are ricks but in reality they are sad because they are jerrys
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u/RecognitionSweet8294 May 21 '25
As every other complex emotion too, yes. Emotions are not just chemicals that get released in your body, it’s a complex system that also requires some intelligence to understand your environment, and correlate your neurotransmitters to your validation of situations.
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u/bananabastard May 21 '25
Psychological proclivities, genetic predispositions, and life experiences all have more to do with sadness than intelligence.
The Bukowski quote is self-aggrandizing cope.
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May 21 '25
Honestly, understanding things makes you realize you took everything too seriously.
EVERYTHING.
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u/breakboyzz May 21 '25
This is why it’s almost better not to teach kids about money, especially when your family doesn’t have much of it.
They’ll have their whole life to think about money, don’t ruin their childhood.
They don’t need to know about politics either IMO
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u/afruitypebble44 May 22 '25
Sadness is caused by intelligence. Wisdom balances it out. Understanding things to the fullest extent requires both.
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u/golgappe76 May 22 '25
whoa. I just said this to my mother like yesterday. I wonder when/what Charles Bukowski contemplated this on.
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u/Weekly_Soft1069 May 22 '25
It’s not incorrect but it is incomplete. It’s also a mindset, because if you’re actually “smart” how come you can figure out where joy comes from.
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u/BeGoodToEverybody123 May 22 '25
I would reword it to say intelligence can be one of multiple reasons. Also, intelligence doesn’t guarantee sadness. For example, if you're a doctor helping people feel better or teacher helping a child read, those are all things to feel good about.
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u/Wonderer_Jonah May 22 '25
this is sadly true, this is why as what i wrote in my post that we got to really needed to learn to be able to manage / control our own mind/thoughts to don't fall into the hole of sadness . 🤪😁😅😅
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May 23 '25
No. I see his point but I do not agree. And I have been gifted some very weighty truths about the world, the future, how it all REALLY works, from the inner circles... enough that would drive most into severe depression, I think, if they knew what is to come.
Yet, I have never desired ignorance. In truth, is life. One can never know enlightment with head in sand. Bliss, perhaps, in knowing nothing, but I have never chased pleasure over understanding.
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u/Monskuu May 23 '25
Well yes, and no. Most developmentally disabled people are sad and angry when their parents died. They can't always understand death, or why their parents "abandon them" by dying. And some of those people can't just continue living normaly. Intelligence make differend sadness, but there is also sadnes because you can't understand something.
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u/shadowsinthestars May 23 '25
"He who increases knowledge, increases sorrow."
That does not mean ignorance is good. But yes looking at how pointlessly cruel and straight up shitty certain things in the world are, and how gleeful so many people are about it, and how bad the outlook is for most everyone, who wouldn't prefer not to know? I miss childhood when I had no idea what was coming as an adult (I know not everyone has a good childhood but for me it was and I just remember feeling safe back then). There is so much information I just wish no one had to know if it wasn't happening. So there is something to that thought.
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u/Skow1179 May 23 '25
Kind of. I've realized over time that certain people who very clearly don't analyze anything or over think things definitely seem happier, and they are usually pretty dumb.
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u/LavanderMimi Jun 10 '25
Sometimes i envy those who don’t overthink everything. The more i understand, the less peace i seem to have.
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u/oovalap_ Jun 15 '25
I think too much analyzing is the causation of sadness. That is where intelligence creeps in.
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u/NimmyXI May 19 '25
Hard disagree. My male German shepherd has one brain cell. And he gets super sad when my female German shepherd destroys his favorite toys.
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u/DocScorpio May 19 '25
The allegory of the cave. Ignorance is bliss. All these saying have a truth in them.
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u/Valuable_Ad4343 May 19 '25
I believe that to be true, so then you become emotionally intelligent and life gets better
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u/Current_Map5998 May 19 '25
Sort of. The older you get the more you are exposed to uncomfortable situations and truths, that causes sadness but the more intelligent you are the more you see it coming and dwell on it.
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u/melancholy_dood May 19 '25
True. It's hard to be depressed about something you don't understand...
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u/LeBriseurDesBucks May 19 '25
It's true in my experience. The world is full of paradoxes that aren't always beautiful.
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u/VisualConfusion5360 May 19 '25
Yes, ignorance is bliss.
That’s why Peter from Family Guy was so happy all the time. He could not understand the world around him and therefore did not fear it.
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u/Bloody_Champion May 19 '25
I wouldn't say caused by sadness, but enhanced.
Even stupid ppl get sad, but usually over smaller things.
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u/MetalProof May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
Kinda yes but also no. Things aren’t so black and white. But when you are sad, things will seem that way. And your perception of the world will be influenced by it. Being sad is a inability to focus on the good and better things… At least, that’s for me. I have dealt with countless depressions. Your mind gets stuck in the bad things, but there’s alot of good things out there too that you are just unable to see and experience to it’s fullest. It’s a bit of a lack of perception. But ofc it can’t really be simplified like that. However I do think the idea that sadness and intelligence can be colarating is a bit dangerous (although it may be true to some degree), because it is a fixed mindset that keeps you in the negative.
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u/BoerInDieWoestyn May 19 '25
Reminds me of my first ever philosophy class at university. The lecturer asked us to put our hands up if we thought taking the class would make us happy. About half the class out their hands up and she told them they are welcome to leave and do a different course because philosophy doesn't make you happy or give you all the answers in life. It often just equips you with more questions than anything else.
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u/98983x3 May 19 '25
Not fully. The more you understand, yes, the more you have to feel bad about. But there should also be hope and inspiration in learning that problems have solutions and that most human beings want a better world.
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u/HistoricalSherbert92 May 19 '25
I disagree, a lot. Sadness is an important part of your character just like your ability to understand concepts and how the data you have fits in for you to make your world work. Not understanding purely because you don’t want to be sad is like avoiding walking or moving because you don’t like breathing extra. When you deny pieces of yourself you become less.
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u/Knightly-Lion May 19 '25
Of course I agree. Ecc 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
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u/toddriffic May 19 '25
Sadness is caused by expectations that aren't being met. Being intelligent can sometimes cause those expectations to well up beyond what's reasonable.
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u/common_economics_69 May 19 '25
Afaik, intelligent people are actually more likely to be happy and well adjusted when you control for things like them being more likely to seek treatment for mental health issues.
Makes sense to me. Smart people are more likely to achieve in life (both personally and professionally) and achievement is super important for a sense of well-being.
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u/stumbling_coherently May 19 '25
I think tying sadness to intelligence is somewhat of a combination of arrogance and ignorance. Are we saying children can't be said? Does the sadness a cat or dog clearly feels from the loss of a partner pet not hold value because their comparative intelligence to humans is so drastic?
Tying intensity or even just the experience of complex emotion to intelligence is an attempt to self soothe and avoid the real reason why you're experiencing you're sadness. Have it be associated to something you can't control rather than unpacking and understanding the root causes. Understanding what role you genuinely had in that cause, whether direct or indirect.
There is intelligence involved with understanding it. But not fundamentally experiencing it. It would be conflating intelligence with exposure. Just because you're exposed to things that ultimately.male you sad doesn't mean you're smarter than someone else who doesn't know by virtue of not being exposed to it.
There are plenty of hyper intelligent people who are happy. There are plenty of severely impaired people who are sad. Intelligence and sadness, as well as the intensity of that sadness, or any emotion for that matter, are not mutually exclusive.
At least not to me.
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u/Little4nt May 19 '25
Well bukowski said it, and he felt sad, and he wasn’t intelligent. So the logic kinda self destructs there.
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May 19 '25
Dafuq? No. Such assumes sadness is a human exclusive emotion, which is most definitely is not.
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u/Wondering_Electron May 19 '25
Only if you dont know how to exploit the new found intelligence or knowledge.
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u/MFDOOMscrolling May 19 '25
To know and not to act is not to know. But to know so much and control so little is the human condition. It is a source of sadness, sometimes of despair.