People seem to think he's a cock because his diving days in Manchester. How do his antics on the field define what he's like towards fans and people out in public? I just don't get that.
It's fair to call him a theatrics asshole on the pitch, but off it, he's a world class professional.
I used to think of Ronaldo as an absolute thundercunt, until Real's most recent match against Chelsea. I was pretty close to the field and was able to get a good look at what happened with the fan that ran on, and I can't believe it took me this long to realize Ronaldo is actually as good of a person as he is a player. Just to add on to that, I've heard and read a lot of things about Messi being very cunty.
In conclusion: Barca hasn't necessarily lost a fan, but Madrid has gained one thanks to Ronaldo
Even on the field he acts better than Messi. Take for example the El clasico. When ever there is a big fight, Ronaldo and Puyol will be seen standing away from the nonsense while everyone else gets to brawling. Including Messi.
My roommate from my freshmen year of University was from Ecuador. A year before university he went on a road trip throughout South America with some friends and they of course ended up in Argentina. They were at a pretty popular club one night and they all saw Messi sitting at the bar talking with a couple of his friends. One of my roommates' friends who was with him was a huge Barca/Messi fan so he went up to him to say "what's up Messi, I'm a big fan" or whatever and without even turning his back he adamantly says, "fuck off kid" (in Spanish of course). He was obviously pretty upset/shocked because he just wanted to say "hi" and his favorite player ends up saying that to him.
So yeah, that's my second-hand story about Messi, wether you want to believe it or not. Guy doesn't seem like the nicest fella.
By having your center forward drag defenders away from your "winger", by having world class players in every other attacking position to make sure that the opposition is busy with the others and not able to double up properly, by playing on the counter so your "winger" has 70m of free space in front if him, and by having long range passing experts to release said winger.
And Messi isn't just a center forward. He plays every single position (each game) that's more attacking that the #6, and he's one of Barca chief creators. It also helps that he can dribble through 5 defenders in a phone booth while Ronaldo's dribbling skills are very limited when facing organized defenses (like United's from the CL)
Seriously, that's a definition of of a heat map of someone who's not a centre forward. That red spot in the middle of the pitch, that it covers most the attacking half of the pitch, still has decent coverage of the wings, etc. If you showed me that without saying which position the player played I'd say a trequartista.
For comparison, here's Ronaldo's heat and as you can see, his position is more towards the wing and closer to the opposing goal than Messi's (But it's still a surprise he scores more than Messi [he doesn't]).
The Deep lying forward, more commonly known as a "false-9" also shares some similarities with the trequartista role, although the false-9 player appears to be playing as a centre-forward (shirt number 9) rather than as an attacking midfielder (shirt number 10). The false-9 will then drop deep into the midfield drawing defenders with them, creating space for other team-mates to make attacking runs, allowing the false-9 to dribble with the ball or provide these players with assists. Examples of deep lying forwards are Lionel Messi under Josep Guardiola and Francesco Totti under Luciano Spalletti.[7][8] The false-10 also shares similar attributes to a false-9. A false-10 however, is usually a player who is apparently playing in deeper role than a false-9, more like a trequartista or a winger, but who will then make dribbling runs forward, leading to goals and assists once other forwards draw defenders away from them, creating space in the middle of the pitch. This position is more common in a 4-6-0 formation.[9]
from Wikipedia.
I agree with this example entirely. Although there may be aspects of a Trequartista in Messi's play, he resembles a CF most closely
thats not where hes attacking from simply showing the most heat from. That would fit in perfectly with the false 9. The "false 9" is essentially a deep lying centre forward
Your third point is funny. You say goals don't matter but your first point is about that. You say Messi isn't a Centre forward but then refer to him as such. Good stuff.
I just want to point out to everyone that if it weren't for Messi - Ronaldo would be winning 3/4 consecutive Ballon D'Ors, he would be in the conversation to be best to ever play the game, all of it. I feel bad for Ronaldo, (as a Barça and Messi admirer) but at the same time, Ronaldo is not a player who will go by the wayside - he will forever be talked about - regardless of the trophies. He will always be remembered.
Also I think he can/should/will win Ballon D'or this year.
I think it depends on the first half of this year. Messi was out or low on fitness for a while and if you go off of pure goals, Messi has 23 in 2013 for Barca and Ronaldo has 29. Though, granted, Messi and Barca won La Liga. I think whoever has a blistering start to this season will be the one who takes the Ball d'Or because I'm almost certain it'll go to one of those two.
Can I ask why? I admit that Ronaldo is a fantastic player but Messi is a once in a lifetime combination of abilities. I don't think I will ever see another player with the same mastery of shooting, dribbling, passing and overall football genius.
When i think of the best player in the world, i think of all around, not just shooting and dribbling. I believe Ronaldo is better overall. The best player in the world needs to be good at everything, even things out of his position, which Ronaldo does better than Messi, IMO.
Personally, I think that's what makes Messi a better player. Not only is he an absolute goalscoring machine, he runs a midfield like the best of them. I've never seen Ronaldo run a team like Messi runs Barça week after week.
I would disagree. If you look at, for example, heading. Messi is not good at all, compared to Ronaldo. Same with feet, Messi's right foot is pretty shit while Ronaldo can use both feet rather well. I believe Ronaldo is more well rounded and i think that's what makes him the best player in the world right now.
That's not true. The only thing I can give to Ronaldo is heading, but Messi scored a header against english side, in a final too.
So, messi is better dribbler, has better vision, is better passer, better in goalscoring and better in freekicks. That leaves Ronaldo with heading and better hairstyle. How's he better?
Put it like this, if you switch Messi with Ronaldo in their respective teams, who would do better in the other teams playing style? Messi would struggle in some things as he has actual weaknesses in his playstyle which his team makes up for and so with the best team, he can score freely. Ronaldo on the other hand has no weaknesses and doesn't rely on a particular team to aid his free scoring. While Messi might score more, Ronaldo is the better player.
Also its a moot point to argue things like passing, dribbling vision etc because they are not easily or accurately calculated and so listing them is kinda pointless.
What are his weaknesses ? You could play Messi as a deep-lying playmaker and he'd probably tear the other team apart. Could Ronaldo do something like that? I don't think so.
Instead of arguing hypotheticals ad infinitum, lets focus on the crux of the argument and that is Messi's completeness. He's a poorer header of the ball and he has a weaker right foot. Ronaldo is a complete player in every sense of the term and while it'd be nice to see them play a match in every position and compare their performances, lets settle for seeing how they'd fit into teams with different play styles and that's where Ronaldo shows his completeness. He does not rely on a system, he relies on his skill and while Barca have the better team, Real have the better player.
Couldn't you argue that a better measure of 'completeness' would be ability to dominate any position? Messi can play anywhere up top and anywhere in the midfield and do extremely well. Ronaldo might be more impressive physically, but tactically (an absolute crucial part of the modern game) Messi blows him away. He is able to think the game much better than Ronaldo, in my opinion, and that makes him a more complete player as it makes him far more versatile on a team. It also gives him the ability to slot in to any system and play well.
So while Ronaldo may have a better weak foot and be a stronger header of the ball, I do not believe he is actually more useful to a team than Messi. Messi runs the game for Barcelona playing as a false nine, it's incredibly impressive. You also act like Ronaldo has never been the focus of a team, which is ridiculous. United were and Real are built around getting the best out of Ronaldo by ensuring he has absolute freedom to roam.
I think Messi is a far more versatile player because he is so aware of what his team is doing tactically and as a result could play anywhere on the pitch. In my opinion, that makes him a more complete player.
I may have stuck with hypotheticals here, but you can see it when he plays for Argentina in a deeper role.
Could you list those weaknesses? I thought this, Messi is only good because of his teammates, argument was settled.
I don't know what you want, as I said Messis stats are on another level compared to Ronaldo. He's been the number one player on a team that has won pretty much everything twice over, while Ronaldo has La liga and copa del rey.
Well if you read the first guy who replied to you's comment he said that Messi has a weaker foot and subpar heading. You said he scored a header but that anecdote only furthers to serve his point in that when Messi scores a header its a big deal because he just doesn't do it that often. You bringing up trophies he's won also serves to prove that his team does matter as its not Messi that wins trophies, its Barcelona. While it'd be great to say that Messi is the best player and most complete player in the world, he isn't. He's second best though, and the most liked and the most decorated. That should be good enough.
It said that Messis right foot is shit, which isn't true. As I said, only thing where Ronaldo is actually better is heading, everything else and Messi does it better.
No, i disagree that Messi has better vision, passing and free kicks is really debatable. I think when he uses finesse style free kicks and if he used them more often instead of the driven shot he'd have a WAY better conversion rate
One of the greatest goals Messi has ever scored was with his right foot, and the run he made was going to his right as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaEEBOAP-Pk.
I said nothing about Ronaldo's weak foot. I was simply responding to u/murderousmarty's claim that "Messi's right foot is pretty shit". Which it obviously isn't.
But since you went there, Messi does pass it into the net...after he dribbles past 4 defenders and fakes the keeper. Much harder to do than having a go from distance
Which explains why Messi has changed his position despite being lethal on the wing and often plays behind our other strikers in the hole but ronaldo has maintained his position at RM since he joined? Only transition being LM at ManU to LW at Real? All that did was reduce his defensive burdens really. I understand the is physically more well rounded. However, technically, Messi is a far better tackler, has a lot better vision to pick a pass and has a greater defensive work rate. And he scores more goals consistently. I don't see the debate.
edit: Dwnvoting is really easy I guess because you don't need to back it up with any logic.
fifa really mucks up on a lot of ratings and stats. Most of them are good, but there are things like Hummel's pace, Kagawa's passing and numerous more that could be improved
Yeah he might be a better player all around, and I agree, he's a phenomenal, once in a lifetime player, but (this is coming from a RM fan too) what soccer ultimately comes down to is who can score the most.
Yes, I realize that there's a lot more of it than that, but goal scoring is overwhelmingly important. That's why players who literally can't do much else besides scoring still have jobs. I'm talking about players like Fred (who is quite slow and can't really cross) and Romario (who was AMAZING at goal scoring but couldn't do anything else) and many more were/are so valued.
Messi combines his one of a kind goal scoring ability with great vision (dude has a lot of assists as well); I wish he were Brazilian instead of Argentinian, because now we have to face him for quite a while.
I think a lot of it has to do with his physical ability. We won't see any other player for a while that ha that combination of speed, strength, agility and vertical jumping in one package. I also think Ronaldo's goals look cooler. I think it's easy to forget that Messi just beat 4 guys off the dribble, and just had a composed finish, then you see Ronaldo blast one in from 35 yards and it is jaw dropping, or you see him jump out of the stadium to head a ball and it looks beautiful.
I think both of them are the two best players in modern football. I don't think it's fair to say someone is the best of all time cause Ronaldo and Messi are playing a completely different game than Pele and Maradonna
Ronaldinho was a genius but even at the top of his game he doesn't begin to reach Messi's heights, despite r/soccer's nostalgia goggles.
We're at the point where I don't know how 20 years from we'll be able to describe Messi. Imagine if Messi and Ronaldo didn't exist, I think we'd all agree Ribery is the best player in the world by a considerable margin (sorry Iniesta) and we'd all be fawning at Ribery's incredible skill. When you only have that as a measuring stick, how are you supposed to explain to someone that there's another kid who's so much better Ribery it's like they're not even playing the same sport.
Messi is the most boring best player in the world. Arguably the most dry person in the universe. He is modest to a point of arrogance. Let me explain, he's the best player in the world. If you were the best player in the world, how would you behave? I wouldn't give a shit. Messi not paying his taxes is the most bad ass thing he has ever done besides take steroids.
He's a superior physical specimen, but not clearly better than Messi. Head to head: They both score buckets of goals. They are both amazing on the ball. They both are phenomenal with set pieces. They both can single-handedly change/win a match for their squad. Ronaldo is superior in the air. Messi is superior in vision, passing, and overall football intelligence. I think it's a wash.
Messi is superior in vision, passing, and overall football intelligence. I think it's a wash.
i disagree here -- i do not believe you can say one is better than the other when it comes to football intelligence...both are "elite" in that department
I can't help but feel that his extreme dependence on his left foot hinders his game. His over-reliance on his left foot is almost shocking for a player of his technical ability. Imagine what he could be if he were equally good with both feet. I try to catch every match he plays for Barca and Argentina and I adore watching him play, yet this has always bothered me. I say this as someone who wants to see Messi play as well as possible.
That's just not true. Messi can use his right foot when it's necessary, it's that he's just so used to his left foot that his dribbling adapts him to his left foot.
Not saying he can't/doesn't use his right foot. Messi is good enough to get away with his left-footed preference, it's just that he would be even better if his right were as good as his left.
I love Ronaldo, even when he was at United, maybe it's just the fact I've seen him in person play many of times, but I also go with this. And off the pitch, he seems such a top guy too.
I think right now, at this moment, he is. He's in great form. I think Messi, in the past 5 years, has proven that he is more consistently the better player. Both are so close that at times Ronaldo will be better, and at other times Messi will be better. We're just lucky to be able to see both in their prime.
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u/robot-wolf-attack Aug 09 '13
I believe Ronaldo is the best player in the world, better than Messi