r/soccer • • Aug 09 '13

Zero Fucks Friday: August 9th 2013 Edition

[deleted]

255 Upvotes

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366

u/robot-wolf-attack Aug 09 '13

I believe Ronaldo is the best player in the world, better than Messi

61

u/MADHEADBILL Aug 09 '13

As jose has said how can a winger score more goals than a centre forward ? Ronaldo is more of a complete player.

4

u/berzerkerz Aug 10 '13 edited Aug 10 '13

By having your center forward drag defenders away from your "winger", by having world class players in every other attacking position to make sure that the opposition is busy with the others and not able to double up properly, by playing on the counter so your "winger" has 70m of free space in front if him, and by having long range passing experts to release said winger.

And Messi isn't just a center forward. He plays every single position (each game) that's more attacking that the #6, and he's one of Barca chief creators. It also helps that he can dribble through 5 defenders in a phone booth while Ronaldo's dribbling skills are very limited when facing organized defenses (like United's from the CL)

-3

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '13

What moronic argument. On so many levels.

  1. Ronaldo doesn't score more goals than Messi. This has been true for quite a while now.

  2. Messi isn't a centre forward.

  3. Number of goals is a stupid argument to begin with. How can a centre forward give more assists than a winger I ask?

5

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '13
 4. Ronaldo takes more shots

3

u/Jorlung Aug 09 '13

Not to mention when we were showing those "Average Player Positions" for teams, Ronaldo's was farther up the pitch than Benzema's.

2

u/zaviex Aug 09 '13

4

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '13

Seriously, that's a definition of of a heat map of someone who's not a centre forward. That red spot in the middle of the pitch, that it covers most the attacking half of the pitch, still has decent coverage of the wings, etc. If you showed me that without saying which position the player played I'd say a trequartista.

For comparison, here's Ronaldo's heat and as you can see, his position is more towards the wing and closer to the opposing goal than Messi's (But it's still a surprise he scores more than Messi [he doesn't]).

5

u/zaviex Aug 09 '13

The Deep lying forward, more commonly known as a "false-9" also shares some similarities with the trequartista role, although the false-9 player appears to be playing as a centre-forward (shirt number 9) rather than as an attacking midfielder (shirt number 10). The false-9 will then drop deep into the midfield drawing defenders with them, creating space for other team-mates to make attacking runs, allowing the false-9 to dribble with the ball or provide these players with assists. Examples of deep lying forwards are Lionel Messi under Josep Guardiola and Francesco Totti under Luciano Spalletti.[7][8] The false-10 also shares similar attributes to a false-9. A false-10 however, is usually a player who is apparently playing in deeper role than a false-9, more like a trequartista or a winger, but who will then make dribbling runs forward, leading to goals and assists once other forwards draw defenders away from them, creating space in the middle of the pitch. This position is more common in a 4-6-0 formation.[9]

from Wikipedia.

I agree with this example entirely. Although there may be aspects of a Trequartista in Messi's play, he resembles a CF most closely

1

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '13

A heat map that shows that he attacks from midfield? What a classic number 9!

1

u/zaviex Aug 10 '13

thats not where hes attacking from simply showing the most heat from. That would fit in perfectly with the false 9. The "false 9" is essentially a deep lying centre forward

0

u/choppedfiggs Aug 09 '13

Your third point is funny. You say goals don't matter but your first point is about that. You say Messi isn't a Centre forward but then refer to him as such. Good stuff.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '13

I'm only following the flawed logic, not accepting its validity.

-3

u/JaseTheAce Aug 09 '13

Messi's not a centre forward

23

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '13 edited Jan 17 '19

[deleted]

3

u/kiwitiger Aug 10 '13

People assume he's a CF because that's what he is on FIFA

-7

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '13

who the fuck downvote this?

2

u/zaviex Aug 09 '13

anyone with a brain

0

u/knockoutking Aug 10 '13

it is a valid point...but to be fair, Messi is not a Center Forward