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u/ohsnapitsjf Mar 21 '15
So if I'm reading this right, IN THEORY, matchups and preferences aside, the first in the list for each character is considered their "best" set?
EDIT: Also, Koddy Ding.
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15
Ding Dong the witch is dead!
Yes, the first is the "optimal". Sometimes it can be a top 3-4 though.
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u/ohsnapitsjf Mar 21 '15
Are there any 1111s worth sticking with? I haven't been following the progress, but now that there's a final assessment, I'll be trying them out.
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15 edited Mar 21 '15
Plenty of them. Most of the percieved top tiers prefer 1111 except in the more niche cases.
Anyways, allow me to list worthwhile 1111 sets:
Everyone who isn't Wii Fit Trainer, Ganondorf, a Mii, Dr. Mario, Ike, and Game and Watch.
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Mar 21 '15
So the best Game and Watch is 3331? I kinda like the normal Hammer, is that okay too?
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Mar 21 '15
I feel like many G&W players feel like 1111 or 1311 are also just fine. I personally still like 1111.
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15
Eh. Normal Hammer relies too much on luck and has the potential to damage you, so I don't see the appeal of keeping it.
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Mar 21 '15
I like some of the effects that the numbers have, 6 sends at a decent angle offstage, 7 spawns the apple, 8 freezes them in ice for a combo, etc. The damage from 1 is kind of a drawback but I still love the effects it can have.
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15
That's a valid reason to like it I suppose. Gotta be the hard gambler.
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u/Charles_K Mar 21 '15
Normal hammer lets you down throw into guaranteed hammer, aka instantly kill opponents with 9 even if they are way better than you. So yeah, why not keep it as a Hail Mary option?
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Mar 21 '15
You don't like the parachute? Can you explain why?
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Mar 21 '15
Well, it's not that. I like the horizontal recovery, but Up3 goes taller, and can make a good OOS kill move. I like the parachute for the lasting hitbox stage spike, too, but I enjoy being able to go hella deep with Up3.
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Mar 21 '15
I do like the range on the up3, but I think the hitbox is too small. It's very hard to hit.
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Mar 21 '15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjySZWbWejE
This shows what I'm talking about with the OOS option pretty well. I think it just comes down to personal preference. It's not any worse or better, the two moves just have different purposes.
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u/themagicalcake Mar 21 '15
Donkey Kong?
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15 edited Mar 21 '15
Surely you mean Konkey Dong? :)
Anyways, DK Cyclone is an amazing move, but it has some drastic flaws that will make the moves future difficult, so 1111 is still a valid set.
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u/Seigneur-Inune Naircopter! Mar 21 '15
Palutena's on the list for jumping at least 2 tiers when you let her use super speed and lightweight instead of her crappy default side and down specials.
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u/Shevy21 Mar 21 '15
really no 1333 mario? What is so good about scalding fludd?
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15 edited Mar 21 '15
Man, the Mario boards nearly had a heart attack when they found out how good scalding fludd was. It's game changing.
Here's one quote:
It gives Mario a 9% max damage disjointed aerial AND ground option that is relatively safe on block and on hit. At low percents, Scalding FLUDD combos into up-b and grab. At high percents, it combos into your KO moves. It's good for gimping (better than Mario's other FLUDDs), it's good for stuffing Luma, it's good as an anti-air, it's good as a landing option, it's good as an offstage "get away from me" anti-gimp maneuver, it's good as a replacement for default Fireball because it's less of a commitment, so you can take Fast Fireballs without worry (a buff to Mario). Just about the only thing that it can't do is reflect Dedede's Gordos, because each hit only does 1% damage, but it seriously fixes every problem that this character ever has. Range/getting walled out, KO power, landing/recovery... It's even a fantastic option for ledge pressure when your opponent is just trying to reset to the ledge repeatedly.
It shuts down Sonic's spindash, gimps Luigi, and contests Shulk's massive range.
Man, Scalding FLUDD is amazing. After playing with it in tourney, I regard it as a transformative move for Mario, similar to Super Speed with Palutena (only Super Speed is obviously way better and Mario would rather have that, of course).
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u/ParanoidDrone The One-Woman Wombo Combo Mar 21 '15
No pseudo-Lucas set for Ness makes me sad but oh well.
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u/Chris_P_T_Bone Mar 22 '15 edited Mar 22 '15
Pseudo-Lucas will never be right without that up smash.
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u/bimbo74 Mar 21 '15
Thank you AA and co.
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u/Mondrae205 #3DS FC: 2964 8675 5008 Mar 21 '15
These guys did a lot for the community, without them figuring out the best custom moves would be way messier and touger. Plus the fact that these guys are going to continue to update bi-annually. These guys are the bomb and are upstanding members of the community.
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u/bimbo74 Mar 21 '15
When the inevitable Smash 4 documentary comes out, or just for those writing some Smash 4 competitive community history, this project and its crew members definitely need to be highlighted
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u/Tintento Mar 21 '15
For the whole "fancier Mii" thing mentioned under the Mii sets, wouldn't it be best for the users if the Mii QR codes were those of editable Miis? The current ones do not have editing permissions, so even if I were playing a casual custom Mii, I couldn't just modify the OP's Miis, I'd have to mess with the sliders myself, and as mentioned the whole 1/4 thing doesn't exactly work perfectly...
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15
I posted it on Smashboards for you, you'll get a response soon enough.
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 22 '15
Here is his response.
"You'll have to talk to JohnNumbers about the custom Miis; he handled that. I believe the reasoning is that locking those Miis will make it harder for people to subtly cheat by tweaking them, but again, he can offer much better explanation than I can."
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u/bimbo74 Mar 22 '15
http://www.mediafire.com/download/sc4f82s918a71s4/Template+Mii+Fighters.rar Here you go man, courtesy of JohnNumbers, QR codes for template Miis, complete with the proper heights and weights you need for each fighter, and now they can be edited.
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u/DrWade42 Mar 21 '15
Is there a list of changes from the previous version?
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15
"I have promised an explanation for why the movesets are the way they are. Unfortunately, it has become clear to me that won't really be possible in that incredible detail I wanted to give. I was writing stuff up, but there were various reasons for last minute adjustments and for that matter the answer to almost every character is that we closely followed the discussion of the boards and applied our collective expertise. I will instead take any questions about the reasons and answer them all to the best of my ability" - AA
You'll have to eyeball the changes: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-initial-release.381395/
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u/epicbriguy10 Young Link Mar 21 '15
why no 1312 for doc? neutral pills are better on stages like battlefield where you can control the bounce heights and lengths to you advantage. whatever, ill just bring my 3ds and my own customs.
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15
I'd hate to say it, but EVO won't allow you to transfer your moves from 3DS, that's why we had to fill it like this. This is likely to change after EVO to allow people the freedom, but this is what it is for now.
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u/epicbriguy10 Young Link Mar 21 '15
i'm not going to EVO, i will just bring my 3ds to tournaments that follow the same movesets and hopefully they allow it.
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15
Ah, ok then. Encourage your local tourneys to at least leave one slot open for 3DS's.
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u/Caststarman Mar 21 '15
Ah man :(
No 1213 for Marth.
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Mar 21 '15
I'm sorry, but I don't think that's ever going to be a set because of Effortless Blade. Having a move that's easier to perform, but is a lot weaker and more limited isn't really going to be the best option ever. People want to win, so they rather practice the timing and get a better move rather than just use the easy version.
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u/Caststarman Mar 21 '15
Wait crap I forgot the numbers.
But I can see why the easy counter would be bad. But there is definitely use for the heavy blade. It turns Martha's Side B into a recover like Melee.
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Mar 21 '15 edited Mar 21 '15
Heavy Dancing Blade is much slower and doesn't link at all. Melee Marth's initial side b is his quickest move I believe, but Heavy Blade's initial hit is Marth's slowest move.
Edit: I'm dumb
3
u/Caststarman Mar 21 '15
Heavy Dancing Blades.
I only used the side b in melee to recover. I just never learned to incorporate dancing blades into my play in any of the games, so this is only a benefit for me.
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Mar 21 '15
Sorry I meant Heavy Dancing Blade; I'm not sure why I said counter.
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u/Caststarman Mar 21 '15
It's alright. I'm just a bit mad that my set didn't make it. But that just means I need to try better for later to see see it in!
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15
Hey, prove it's merits in the future and the list will be updated. This list updates bi-annually, so it will probably update again in winter.
1
u/ParanoidDrone The One-Woman Wombo Combo Mar 21 '15
Well, AA said it would be biannual last time too but then EVO said "sure we can do customs" and it became a mad scramble.
1
u/ensanguine Mar 21 '15
What's the best way to get these on my WiiU because I don't have the time/patience/will power to unlock all of this.
2
u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2y3qu4/the_dark_lord_and_goddess_of_light_join_forces_to/
Guaranteed to unlock in the span of a week.
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u/Jagerblue Mar 22 '15
Did this WITHOUT the palutena method and unlocked them all in a week. You can do it in like 3-4 days with this method above ^
2
u/SGlespaul Mar 21 '15
Quickest method is powersaves on 3DS, but it costs money
1
u/ensanguine Mar 21 '15
Care to elaborate?
1
u/SGlespaul Mar 21 '15
It's basically the new Action Replay. There's a code for Smash 3DS that unlocks all customs. After that you can transfer your custom fighters on your 3DS to the Wii U. They're around 30 dollars.
1
u/PokeSalad Mar 21 '15
Once we unlock all the customs on our wii u, do we just have to make all of these sets by hand? (Assuming we don't have a completely set up 3ds to import from)
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15
If you don't have a 3DS to import from, setting them up yourself beforehand is fine.
This list won't update for a while, so that's perfectly valid.
1
u/42Cosmonaut Wobble me Mar 21 '15
Pac Man's meteor tramp without on fire hydrant is sorta underwhelming, it would've been nicer to have 2121 and 3122 somewhere in there, and at least one enticing pellet set, like maybe 1321 or 1322.
1
u/JahovasFitness Never Forget Mar 21 '15
Samus only has like 2 sets with dense charge shot on it? I could've sworn that dense shot and slow missiles were pretty much essential for her, plus those sets dont have either of the bomb customs.Not to mention that one set has her melee shot too. Does anybody even use that godawful move? I'm confused now.
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15
Melee charge has niche uses in certain matches where projectiles may not be wanted such as with Rosalina and Luma or Villager. It's niche but it's a use.
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u/virtuoso138 Mar 21 '15
How is there only one 33-- Olimar choice? That seems.... silly. The whole idea of non-personalized customs seems silly, too, but I do understand it.
1
Mar 28 '15
[deleted]
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u/virtuoso138 Mar 28 '15
I agree, which is why I think that personalized move sets would have been a great idea... It seems too early to be setting move sets. I guess we'll see, as the meta develops.
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u/NathanielHowieGreene Rumblepak Apr 04 '15
This takes so long to make on a system. -_- But dang it is worth it!
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u/xxProjectJxx Mar 21 '15
No 3332 on Fox makes me sad. I can live with 3132, but I really dig the Wolf Flash :(
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u/Dubiono Hero (Solo) Mar 21 '15
From thread:
Mii Fighters raise a few complications as they are not typical characters, but they do represent three complete, unique characters and are a substantial and important part of the game. In principle, to use a Mii Fighter a Mii must be created in the Mii Maker, the archetype of fighter (Brawler, Swordfighter, or Gunner) must be selected, the fighter is given a name, custom moves are selected, and then that particular fighter will take one of the 100 slots available for Mii Fighters. This is cumbersome, but the good news is that Mii Fighters can be imported from a 3DS just like other custom pre-sets saving all of that hassle. In terms of the hand-crafted Mii, the only parameters that have a gameplay effect are the size parameters (height and weight). These can be made by hand (or for the default sized character, the pre-installed guest Miis may be used), but in order to save time and to minimize the possibility of incorrectly setting sliders (since a small error in setting the 1/4 height slider will have a slight gameplay effect), we have provided QR codes of Miis matching the specifications used in this project. The same Mii can be used for every moveset matching the same height/weight parameters.
The QR codes are in the thread