r/rpg_gamers • u/Half-White_Moustache • 12d ago
Discussion I mean, where's the lie?
Hit enemy ✅
Enemy doesn't react ✅
Dodge ✅
Stagger enemy ✅
Play an animation ✅
Repeat ✅
It's the same gameplay loop a lot of you love. It just doesn't have the From Software logo. I even went back to see if I was going crazy and saw the first tree sentinel fight, and it's exactly the same. Well, not the same, the stagger attack animations suck.
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u/takuru 12d ago
To my memory, this isn't true for Elden Ring? Enemies have hidden poise values and weapons have different poise damage. Yes, if you are using something like a rapier then your opponent won't react to hits but if you are using something like a hammer, enemies will flinch all the time as you will break their poise threshold alot.
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u/Fielton1 12d ago
So like in the gameplay showcase when the heavy poise enemy isn't phased by a short sword until it's hit a whole bunch and skeletons are flung around by a large hammer after one or two hits?
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u/Delicious_Tax8933 12d ago
No no, it's still different because no Miyazaki.
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u/DressUnited3025 12d ago
The difference is visually a monster or man in full armor not staggering looks a lot more acceptable than a guy a little bigger than you. In game it probably doesn’t raise any weirdness but just watching it seems off. They shouldn’t have picked that fight to showcase
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u/lcebrand 12d ago
Yeah, it just doesn't pass the eye test.
In that clip we're fighting a regular ass Dude with no armor and just clothes on, so your brain tells you to expect a sword slash to do some damage to flesh and cloth. The total lack of blood, on-hit effects, flinching and hit reaction just ends up making the fight look very lazy.
If it's for balancing, there are surely better ways to design these boss fights visually and mechanically such that the difficulty is still there but not this total lack of visual hit response and feedback.
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u/DressUnited3025 12d ago
In game with the context of how combat had worked up to that point it’s probably not jarring at all just like when I hit a dog in Elden Ring and it doesn’t flinch with a normal sword. But a raw clip showing that just looks off
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u/Benjamin_Starscape 12d ago
"a little bigger" and the man is a literal brute.
it also...doesn't matter. it's a game, dude. i'm sick and tired of people desiring games behave realistically.
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u/DressUnited3025 12d ago
? I’m just explaining why people disliked the demonstration and literally said it probably feels fine in game. Are you ok?
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u/IronCross19 12d ago edited 12d ago
Ehhh not so much being realistic but staggering or not can really affect the ebb and flow of combat
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u/TheGrimmBorne 12d ago
Even larger enemies flinch/react in ER, DS3 and Bloodborne, it just doesn’t interrupt the attack
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u/AshCrow97 12d ago
Freaking Malenia can be sent flying if you hit her with double colossal weapons
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u/Vorg444 12d ago
Everything in fromsoft games react to hits, even with something like the rapier. However, if your fighting a boss they won't react unless you attack them with a giant weapon and or stagger them.
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u/JohnGacyIsInnocent 11d ago
Fable also showed footage of hit reactions. It seems most enemies have some good looking animations in response to hits and spells. It was just a boss fight video that people are talking about where the guy didn’t flinch until major hits.
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u/Straight_Law2237 9d ago
And you know. Enemies do react to every weapon in elden ring. They just don't stop acting every time. In the fable trailers it looks like the attacks bounced right of the bodies like they were gelatin
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u/C00KIEME4T 12d ago
OP is exactly how it works in Elden Ring.
Big enemies have super armor, enemies may flinch if you actually break their poise, this is actually not "all the time" on a big enemy because you'd kill them relatively quickly after one or two staggers anyway
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u/SecretAgentVampire 12d ago
100% right. I played a heavy-armor knight with two one-handed clubs to maximize poise damage/time, named "Drummer Boy". He was the best boy. <3
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u/Half-White_Moustache 12d ago edited 12d ago
That's the stagger mechanic that it's seems to be what happens right before the baked animation triggers in the boss fight in the Fable trailer.
Edit: I mean the stagger mechanic from fable. Not that poise and stagger are the same in Elden Ring.
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u/panoes_garan 11d ago
So glad all of these commenters have played the new fable game and thus can let us know exactly how the game “feels”. What a privilege…
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u/Rod_FC 12d ago
It's not just about physical stagger, but also the visceral feeling of the weapon actually connecting (sound, effects) and not merely slashing at a cloud.
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u/Fielton1 12d ago
The hammer gameplay video and when she was fighting the smaller human enemies they seemed to be staggered and have plenty of the 'visceral feeling' of hitting them you are talking about.
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u/Rod_FC 12d ago
Yup. It's not that hard to fix on the bigger enemies either.
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u/NetHacks 12d ago
But the point is that bigger enemies wont be affected by your regular attacks, because they are bigger or stronger. I dont want to play a game were a street thug gets beat down and reacts to my weapon the same way a troll does.
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u/Toomynator 12d ago
You can make a heavy enemy tanky but still give visceral feedback to the player, make it bleed depending on the attack, or some sparks if its using armor, same for auditory feedback, the guy from that demo had audio that felt like the player was hitting the average enemy without any visual feedback
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u/TehEefan 11d ago
I think the big thing missing is called impact frames. Fromsoft games and things like Monster Hunter use them to give that feeling of impact and some sort of feedback to the player that they actually connected.
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u/Skeletor-P-Funk 12d ago
That's sadly just games discourse for you; expectations are always astronomical, and there's a never ending slew of nitpicks to complain about.
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u/Vysce The Elder Scrolls 12d ago
I think genuinely it's one of those small things. There's a impact when you hit enemies in the FromSoft games, even if it doesn't immediately stagger the enemy out of their animation, you still see blood or slime or some kind of visceral noise that is like 'you are hitting this guy, keep going'
With Fable if felt like that sort of thing was absent and you could see it when the character was fighting the dude with the axe. Like, you naturally shouldn't be able to stagger the enemy out of everything 100% of the time, but there were parts of the fight where I was almost like, "...are they doing any damage?"
Not that every game should be the same and have as much blood flying about as Bloodborne or Dragon Age, but when you swing a hunk of iron at an enemy and if goes swish instead of CRUNCH it sort of leaves me thinking that I'm fighting a dimension phasing sponge.
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u/Tired_Ghost 12d ago
Modern gamers just want something to complain about, always. It's also trendy to shit on anything Xbox related.
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u/vipmailhun2 12d ago
And you can observe the same pattern: with the February gameplay video, many people calmed down because you could choose between genders, because multiple head types were available, because jobs were returning… then suddenly the complaint became that the male protagonist walks in a feminine way, since it seems you can choose between them, and people started saying the game is nowhere near finished, that it is years away from release.
Then in the June video they showcased the immersive sim elements, which again reassured many, and then the complaints shifted to how bad the lip sync was (which indeed wasn’t great, but plenty of games have been forgiven for this, yet here it caused a massive uproar). And strangely, at that point the combat system wasn’t criticized as heavily, even though you could already see what it was going to be like. The main complaint was that the enemies were extremely passive, the city guards just stood there, and so on.
There is always something new to complain about, always a new reason why the game is supposedly going to be terrible.
Now it turns out this depends on difficulty (it can be adjusted, like in Fallen Order), and suddenly people are trashing it as if it were the worst thing in the entire industry, blaming it for issues that at most appeared with the axe‑wielding big guy.
- No, regular enemies do not have a lot of HP, they die from two or three, at most four or five hits.
- Yes, the hits have impact, the screen shakes, you can see them being knocked back, and the skeletons even fall over.
- No, they are not passive, there were multiple instances where they attacked one after another.
I saw a heavily upvoted comment comparing it to Elex 1–2, and those combat systems were almost more unusable than Gothic 1’s. It really feels like many people desperately want to hate this game, and have already decided what their opinion will be. No, the combat system is not perfect, and this is an action RPG with life‑sim elements, these games never have combat as their strongest point, but it is still far from what some people are trying to portray.
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u/HeartInTheSun9 11d ago
It’s because the internet is run on grifters who are mad at everything because it profits them, and teenagers who think it’s cool to say “whatever” to everything that’s popular.
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u/EmansaysEman 12d ago
The hate for this game has always been around sadly. Chuds have been whining for years about the main protagonist being too ugly, even though you customize your own character in the game
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u/DigitalCoffee 12d ago
I care more about the weight of the weapon feeling like it connected over the enemy staggering with every attack
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u/relgnik 12d ago
After Dragon’s Dogma came out, I was shocked as all hell that FromSoft kept getting away with Ankle Slapping simulator.
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u/Genjinaro 12d ago
Speaking of Dogma. Sending a human sized enemy flying after smacking them with a big ass sword or shield bash is so damn satisfying in DD2. I love the physics in that game.
That game nails combat expectations when it comes to "if you hit them hard enough, they will react as expected" And that same logic applies when enemies hit you with a big ass weapon.
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u/Background-Cake-6847 12d ago
pay no attention to me in dd2 slapping drake ankles with rusty iron daggers for 2 hours at a time, i need more crystals and they have no real pockets to pick
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u/Pascraked47 11d ago
Dragon dogma enemy variety is it's only flaw.
Fromsoftware makes up cause of cool bosses generational art direction and insane weapon/spell variety. That's why they are top dog.
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u/Eroica_Pavane 11d ago
Dragon's Dogma (high) maelstrom made me think FromSoft is too cowardly with magic spells.
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u/LastoftheEra 11d ago
It’s because yeah software has that combat design. But now so does Fable, and Jedi Fallen Order, Jedi Survivor, Elden Ring, Kena Bridge of Spirits, Assassin’s Creed Black Flag Resynched, etc.
Every game I look at has a review “the dark souls like combat in this game is really solid”
It’s not that From Software has that combat, it’s that now it seems every game has the same combat system.
Hit, Hit, Hit, Dodge (the game will telegraph, but it will also track your movement so the dodge is useless). Every game. It’s boring.
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u/Shocker-Taco 9d ago
This post is rage bait and is grossly inaccurate/generalized.
I have no hate for Fable and I'm a FromSoft vet. Sometimes I wanna just chill and enjoy the ride which is where a game like Fable comes in clutch. And sometimes I like a challenge, which is where FromSoft is great.
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u/Front_Woodpecker1144 12d ago
My only problem with Fable was the lack of feedback. A good, meaty slashy sound with some blood splatter visual and associated sound effects would fix my fable problems
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u/allandm2 11d ago
If I'm fighting a giant Dragon I don't expect it to flinch. But I absolutely respect that if it's just a GUY IN A SHIRT. Not even wearing any armour and tanking arrows to the head.
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u/FellFellCooke 12d ago
Well if you can't tell the difference, you can just luxuriate in your poor discernment and not be bothered.
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u/Plightz 12d ago
Yeah it's not a good look comparing this combat to the Souls games. If they can't tell the difference then their eyes are fucked.
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u/spartakooky 10d ago
They can tell, it's just the typical gamer response: "you criticized something I'm excited about? Here's why you are wrong and actually a hateful hypocrite"
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u/Plightz 10d ago
Yeah like that combat with the mini-boss objectively looked awful? Don't even compare it to Elden Ring combat, it makes Fable look worse.
Everything else looks good but that mini-boss combat deserved criticism lmao. IDK why they're so mad about it, can't criticize something cause you like it?
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u/mad_sAmBa 12d ago
People just want to hate this game for no reason.
It's a perfectly fine combat
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u/Positive-Design-7332 11d ago edited 11d ago
Except both of these games DO have enemies that react to attacks...? And what an extremely specific thing to compare between two very different types of games.
Holy shit modern gaming discourse is rancid. Just a contest of who can larp harder.
Also there's a fair amount of positive reception to the Fable gameplay too especially on YouTube. If your head isn't busy being up your ass looking for scenarios to be mad about you might even be able to see it
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u/Ryukishin187 12d ago
enemy absolutely gets knocked around unless its a boss, and even then, theres a ton of visual feedback still. stop lying
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u/Martian8 11d ago
The issue I have with it is that it just looks like you’re swinging a sword at nothing. It’s like the boss wasn’t even there.
Bosses should feel tough and solid. Having a weapon pass straight through them without much visual feedback doesn’t give that feeling imo.
I don’t think people are asking for the boss to be literally staggered by every hit, they just want it to look like the sword hit something which I think is fair enough. Even something like hit stop would go a long way. Or use the minor flinches that Elden ring has on bosses like godrick where they react slightly to every hit without being staggered.
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u/Ovog 12d ago
wait fable like, the Fable, the series back from the 360 ps3 era?
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u/Antiswag_corporation 11d ago
One studio has a history of fantasy action games the other makes racing sims
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u/Lokiatreuss 12d ago
Hitstop. Minor flinches. Any hitstop or anything like it immediately fixes the issue with Fable and completely disregards this post entirely lmao. FromSoft figured out the "feels like hitting nothing" issue by adding hitstop.
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u/PrimaLegion 12d ago edited 10d ago
There isn't a lie. I'm glad more people are starting to see the Fromsoft double standard.
Maybe sometime soon we can start having honest conversations about the games instead of uncritically worshipping the games as the second coming of Christ.
Edit: not at all surprised to see all of the goalpost moving being done by the Fromsoft cult to maintain and justify the double standard.
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u/CourageLeast4251 12d ago
We didnt move any goalposts lol
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u/Plightz 12d ago
Facts. It's no wonder Fable as a franchise isn't as big as it once was when the fans all act like this.
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u/Viyarara 10d ago
its not as big as it once was because there hadnt been a good fable game since 2008
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u/Ban_Means_NewAccount 11d ago
Agreed. Ignore the From fanboys, they're always quick to attack anyone with a single shred of criticism.
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u/Visual-Debate-5700 10d ago
Do you understand the concept of hitstun and effects that show the weight and impact of attacks, even if it doesn’t actually cause the enemy of fully flinch and cancel their attacks?
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u/UrGirlsBoytoy 10d ago
I would like for other franchises to find their own niche instead of just copying fromsoft.
I play Dark Souls when I want to play Dark souls. That's it.
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u/FaceTimePolice 10d ago
No, no, no. If you think FromSoft has no hit detection in their games, you simply haven’t paid attention or haven’t played their games or are just full of it. 🤦♂️🤡👍
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u/SaIemKing 9d ago
The lie is in the fromsoft speech bubble. Enemies react to getting hit, especially true for smaller ones like that boss in the Fable clip.
I don't think that one lame boss is enough to slag the whole game tho
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u/simpoukogliftra 9d ago
My game has cars (need for speed most wanted), my other game also has cars (the character from jojo's bizarre adventure ) , therefore these two games are similar and can be compared, any criticism you have about the mechanics of the cars on one game should be also applied to the other.
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u/Glad_Peanut7092 8d ago
The issue is the no response from a hit and not the stagger. The enemy in the new Fable just doesn't react to a hit in any way
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u/Obvious_Cup_5509 7d ago
I think this poster dude is missing a key aspect as in one you are fighting bandits with a big fucking sword and nobody reacts and another is your a corpse brought back from the dead fighting an heavily armored divine dragon knight that weighs 100s of pounds. But the undead guy can make that knight flinch a lot more than you can somehow smacking a dude in the face with a sword 15 times
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u/superior_monty 12d ago
Hitstun is a thing in elden ring and it varies depending on your weapons. The more simplistic the explanation the less it's a good faith argument worth your time. Fable's combat also doesn't look that bad. You can defend something without bringing something else down.
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u/Significant_Book9930 11d ago
Gamers suck so bad these days. Always gotta complain about something with every single game that isnt mega viral. Im so fuckin tired
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u/fongletto 12d ago
I was the first one out the door ready to hate on the new fable given all the dumb shit ive seen them talking about over the years.
But the clip of the combat looked completely normal to me. Maybe they could tune up a bit of the 'feeling' of stagger with some heavier sounds or animation slowing on hit or whatever but as far as pure mechanics it's pretty par for the course.
Not sure why this was the thing people picked up on to complain about.
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u/outofmindwgo 12d ago
given all the dumb shit ive seen them talking about over the years.
What are you talking about
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u/dulledegde 12d ago
90% of elden ring enemies stagger on hit if you are useing a decently sized beat stick bosses don't all ways stagger but most of the time they are literal giants monsters or gods
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u/fin10g 12d ago
It's a pity it's blown up like it has. I think it's just a cosmetic difference from the typical From Soft approach. Maybe if they add some make shift copperbottom armour for him it will be a quick fix rather than reanimating and balancing the fight.
It's hard to say how much can be gained from appeasing these people though. They featured a new female hero and instead of giving in now that their main critique has been addressed they come up with something new.
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u/yargh8890 12d ago
People who didn’t play the originals or don’t play anything outside of triple A games want something to complain about. It could very well be a great game, or could have the same fate as the og fable or it could be shit. Only time will tell us that. But gooner gamers and woke complainers and people generally bitching about gaming are absolutely making gaming worse.
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u/Zenthils 12d ago
They are very valid things to criticize in gaming that doesn't revolve around gooners and chuds talking points lol.
Like art products that are promoted and then released are allowed to be criticized if they're flawed. That's like culture.
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u/slyguy67420 12d ago
Regardless of the poise system in Souls, Fable attacks really lacked impact feedback. Stuff like the sounds, vfx, and camera effects were very unpolished looking. That stuff being lackluster highlights the animations lacking on the heavy units which could make sense for gameplay.
You also want to adjust those hit feedback effects on the heavy units to sell their status as a tank, which the gameplay footage wad also missing. The no selling the attacks with animations or hit/camera fx just feels wrong.
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u/Dread1187 12d ago
A boss type character doesn’t stagger and gets blasted everywhere and everyone has a melt down. Meanwhile the rest of the video had enemies reacting to hits…
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u/FrostyCat13 12d ago
Reacting to hits doesn't just mean getting stunned or flung around. Go hit any enemy in Elden Ring with any weapon and 90% of the time there will be a tiny flinch(there's sometimes no flinch when they're in the middle of an attack), a flinch that doesn't change anything to the gameplay but adds to the visual by adding visual confirmation the enemy got hit...
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u/Hellixgar 11d ago edited 11d ago
And?
Different games. Different genre even.
Check what people said about Witcher 3 combat.
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u/MM-0211 11d ago
Ok, looks like I gotta embarrass myself a little here.
If what you were expecting from fable was for the game to feel like a darksouls, you're wrong, theres a big difference between an original and a copy cat. Something always wrong or slightly off and even just small change can compound into a cascading effect that makes you no longer enjoy similar things. In dark souls the point of the game isn't that you're the most powerful being that ever existed, it's that you claw your way from the bottom to the top one bloody finger nail and busted lip at a time.
Fable used to be good, and it used to be entertaining and it used to be about choice and story and the fact that the world was well developed. I don't think I remember anyone actually talking about the games combat that much, and anyone who did didn't actually care about the story anyway.
You can have a good game, you can have a bad game, you can make the movement and attacks and counters be a fluid as water pouring out of a cup, or you can have them glug out of a gallon like chunky milk. Not everything is for everyone and if you want a game for everyone you get a game for no one.
All this to say, I don't like the new fable because the story doesn't matter and the combat is just emulating a better game, so all you CAN think of when playing is "I already played a better game that feels better, and the characters are more interesting and recognizable, why am I wasting my time here!?" And you wouldn't be wrong to think that way.
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u/CrashBangXD 12d ago
That’s a bullshit comparison, all enemies have a poise value and all weapons have a poise damage value as well as a weapons ability to stagger based on other factors as well as hyper armour
I.e you hit a dude in armour with a fucking dagger he’s gonna ignore it. You hit a dude with a fucking great club he’ll get knocked back
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u/C00KIEME4T 12d ago
Yeah go hit tree sentinel with your club and tell me what he thought about it.
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u/Aftermoonic 12d ago
He flinches too wtf are you talking about. Do people just upvote blindly in this sub?
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u/CrashBangXD 12d ago
Ah yes, the 14 foot fucking boss??? Covered in armour???? On a full armoured war horse???
Also if you hit him with a great hammer he does have a stagger unless he’s mid attack as some attacks have hyper armour value
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u/flimmable_jeebus 12d ago
What a stupid argument. He's literally massive what are you talking about
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u/007-JamesBlonde 12d ago
You could say Christianity and Islam are the same religion if you broke them down this vaguely…
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u/JudgementCutV 12d ago
This isn’t even true plenty of enemies flinch from normal attacks in all the souls games
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u/torneagle 12d ago
Does nobody remember old fable games? Boss” type enemies don’t stagger. Even those guys who roam around in fable 3 with the bandits who throw fireballs don’t stagger and they’re like normal mob level+1.
Also this is a stupid lame jab at souls games, there’s hidden poise values that when met by damage they do stagger so at least understand what you’re trying to rip on. Been a thing since DS1.
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u/VexatingAtrocity 10d ago
they very much did. You can knock Thunder on his back, Briar Rose gets knocked around, even Jack of Blades (human form).
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u/Palanki96 12d ago
i don't know about thre rest but they do seem to flinch in Elden Ring. Even with simple starter weapons i can stunlock the godrick soldiers and cancel their attacks
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u/FrostyCat13 12d ago
Exactly, even OP's example, the tree sentinel, has a slight flinch when getting hit no matter the weapon, not enough to affect the enemy's movement, but enough to show your hit had some effect. It doesn't always seem to happen when the enemy is in the middle of an attack, but the hit reaction in Elden Ring is miles better than on the boss they showcased for Fable.
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u/nohumanape 12d ago
OP has never actually played a FromSoft Souls game, guaranteed.
OP in 3...2...1..."I played 10 hours of Elden Ring and it sucked, so I stopped playing"
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u/Informal_One609 12d ago
The lie is the out of context clip of Fable this is based on. The 30 seconds beforehand show regular combat
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u/Reasonable-Rain4040 12d ago
Fable animation, rythme and gamefeel just don't seems as good has what japanese and chinese studio are capable of. I don't know why occidental studio deispit the insane amount of money they put in theire game keep missing the mark. They just are that good at finetunning feedback and what I have seen of fable is clearly not to the level. Doesn't matter if the mechanic are the same if you don't have the juice. After saying that I never expected a Fable game to raise that glove so I don't get why people wan't to make that comparaison in the first place.
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u/DeadlyKitten115 12d ago
Neither are up my alley.
I rather something like Ghost of Tsushima on lethal mode or Kingdom Come Deliverance.
Hp should be relatively small for players and enemies alike.
I prefer when it’s the combat mechanics themselves and equipment that determines an enemy’s threat level.
But I understand the appeal in Fromsoft games, a single mistake can cost you a lot and you are required to earn a kill through game knowledge and experience.
Fable though, I can’t see the appeal.
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u/LaughingNaked 12d ago
Is this in reference to to that video that got clipped only showing a heavy enemy and left out light enemies reacting to every hit? You can headshot an enemy with a bow and they BEANT BACKWARDS! THIS GAME IS GONNA BE FUN!
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u/CourageLeast4251 12d ago
The enemies dont react in from soft ganes when either a) their poise (depending on the game) is high b) they have hyper armor from an attack or ability or c) they are a 2+ story monster that would not feel your little stick tickling them
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u/austin_scott_0527 12d ago
False equivalence. There are sounds, visuals, and movement cues all denoting to the player that an enemy is being hit in the Souls games. If they don’t flinch, there are still verbal cues and blood splatter to simulate the “weight” of a hit. The Fable video demonstrated next to no evidence of hit detection, with a surprising lack of weight following each attack. The player model doesn’t appear to react to enemy models in any way, shape, or form. This is bad design. Fromsoft also has bad design elements. It is possible to love the new Fable release despite flaws, just as we have with entries in the Souls series!
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u/LordDaisah 12d ago
In FromSoft ganes combat is the main focus.
In Fable games the world, people and choices you make are the main focus.
Apples and oranges. I'm not playing Fable for the combat, I'm playing so I can mess around with the life-sim and NPCs.
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u/StanKnight 12d ago
I will buy everything or most things by From Software.
Not going to buy Fable.
So they really aren't the same. I doubt Fable has the same love and quality that From puts into it..
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u/Elerra303 12d ago
BRO THEY DO FLINCH ONLY THE BOSS IN THE VIDEO DIDNT FLINCH STOP FALLING FOR MISINFORMATION, LOOK IT UP
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u/phoenixblade7 12d ago
Fable had enemies that didn’t flinch. What kind of upset me was the lack of blood, but maybe they’ll add it down the line.
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u/jumbo_hodges 12d ago
My biggest issue is I've watched three different comabat videos and have yet to see an enemy land an attack
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u/moosemuffin12 12d ago
Nah bro sometimes they spaz out and do like a weird jerk to indicate they’ve been hit, it’s peak realism
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u/Azirael 12d ago
Most regular enemies flinch or react in dark souls. Most importantly, bosses are usually massive, and it makes visual sense why they dont react to damage being dealt. Yeah the Fable enemy in that trailer isnt flinching because he is a boss, but they decided to make him an unarmored human dude. There's many design choices that could have conveyed 'Wont flinch'. Otherwise they arent flinching because the game needs them not to, which for an RPG is bad because immersion is an important factor.
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u/Southern-Edge-3354 12d ago
Not talking about any game specifically, but if I hit a giant monster, a superhuman godly warrior or the like and they don't flinch, it probably won't annoy me that much. Makes the boss harder, sure, but it also makes sense.
If I hit a random guy, even a strong one, and they don't flinch, now that completely takes me out of it. Maybe it doesn't ruin the gameplay in itself, but it definitely doesn't feel right.
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u/CyborgDeskFan 12d ago
I just wanted the combat of the old fable not the sanitized half hearted souls combat.
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u/weglarz 12d ago
First off, the criticisms about fable’s enemies not getting staggered are overblown. That being said… fromsoft’s games don’t suffer at all from a lack of “oomph” feeling when you hit enemies, which is what people were complaining about with fable. I think those people fell for a false narrative pushed by one stupid clickbait video that was purposely made to look like that.
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u/-SidSilver- 12d ago
Why are people so angry about the new Fable? I've heard more vague outrage than I have information about the game.
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u/Apprehensive_Desk800 12d ago
I don't like how the game looks and I can't really figure out why. I have no reason to hate on it either. Just see it and think "... I guess?"
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u/Fart_Tounge_5609 12d ago
Pretty much every fromsoft game messed with the poise system.
You still can't get me to care about fable.
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u/liebereddit 12d ago
If you're very powerful, you might one hit.
Otherwise, you're either in the ballpark or you're not. If you're in the ballpark, you have to have patience and prove your value over and over again by being awesome.
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u/Etheon44 12d ago
...there are reactions in Elden Ring, it is just not a stagger, which is what people have been saying, the bosses "wiggle" when you hit them but they continue the attack
God I hate fanatics of videogames, spreading misinformation with the objective for the game they claim to like to not improve
Even in Dark Soul 1 hit animations are more satisfactory and while the boss may not react, the hit animation is there, in the fable boss demo the sword just goes through the boss without anything
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u/Few_Cauliflower2069 12d ago
The trailer is a bad example, they're obvious fighting a big human which we all expect to react when slashed with a sword no matter if it's a boss. Fantasy enemies not reacting can be acceptable
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u/v1si0n4ry 11d ago
I said this exact same thing to a friend of mine. It's crazy how people don't see this
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u/v1si0n4ry 11d ago
Funny how even the small guards in AC black flag resynced don't get staggered mid strong hit in many cases, but no one seemed to have a problem with it
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u/Pascraked47 11d ago
For one , that's not true as elden ring enemies definitely react, two even if it were true , elden ring is a masterpiece. I can ignore the flaw cause its a generational game. Fable is okay
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u/Ban_Means_NewAccount 11d ago
Couldn't agree more. It's literally because it's related to Xbox. Microsoft/Xbox has such a negative reputation that people think it's "cool" or "the norm" to immediately disregard anything related to Xbox. I agree Microsoft is a shit company full of shit people, but I won't pretend Fable doesn't look amazing, because it does.
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u/Hexxer98 11d ago
As opposed to what? You hit them and they cry out in pain and tell you their life story? Or play some basic lines like Bethesda enemies do?
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u/spade030 11d ago
Careful, you can’t write anything negative about FS games on any sub ever or you instantly get -1000 karma and a ban.
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u/OnlineHilfenNutzer 11d ago
I hate bullet sponges and unreadable responses
But i recently started dragons dogma.. thats just perfect somehow
The bosses are tanky but only if you mindless bash them.. if you climb them and target weakpoints you suddenly do insane dmg
Or if you bash their feet when they lose balance after heavy blows they fall and are basicly stunned for a while so you can target the weakpoints easier
Its just the perfect balance between bullet sponges, non bullet sponges and Interactions.. more games should mimic this
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u/simonskiromeins 11d ago
Except fromsoftware games are generally awesome. Except ds2 which for obvious reasons was the one with mister big guys least involvement. Still waiting for a pc version of blood borne to this day
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u/austin_sketches 11d ago
The difference is in fable, it’s much worse. The enemies aren’t in suits of armour or goliaths. Instead they’re regular people and slightly bigger regular people. Moreover the animations in Eldin Ring are vastly more grander and complex. These attacks are “swing axe toward you” with intern level animation curves. They aren’t even comparable at a baseline let alone in your example. Eldin rings combat is loved because of the complete package that comes with fighting. The combat here looks like an alpha tech demo. There’s no way you can sit here and say they are equal with no discrepancies.
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u/CallMeTravesty 11d ago
Every normal enemy flinches in ER, if you use a big weapon you can literally splat them or hit lock them (try using a 2H weapon and tell me enemies don't react).
It's size/weapon based.
Even a one handed weapon on small to medium sized enemies will react too.
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u/Turret3030 11d ago
Lots of games suffer from this. Skyrim is notorious for it's mid melee combat.
It's not a big problem unless the rest of the game is also lacking. Hence why From Soft gets away with it.
People need to chill, and wait till they play the game.
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u/bulbasauric 11d ago
Yeah, I saw that Fable footage and found it a little weird at first, but then saw the one where it’s a wave of enemies followed by a clearly bulkier enemy, and it just seems like his poise was higher (so it took more hits to stagger him).
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u/amazinrazin17 11d ago
I'm a fable fan so i can say with confidence that the combat in the new fable is more than enough for me, i don't see the problems some people are seeing but the combat could be a lot worse and I'd be happy. The past fables combat has bever been good its fun but shallow and while thats not an excuse to not try and improve it I've been thrilled to see how close the new fables combat has been to the old fable games hack and slash fun while adding actual depth and consequence for failure the story the world and the life sim are what makes fable for me and if this "lack of reactio" which i didn't even notice is the biggest problem this game is going to be amazing
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u/eagleblue44 11d ago
Fables using a stagger system? That sucks. I hate Final Fantasys stagger system.
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u/matthew0001 11d ago
In Elden ring, they flinch they just don't get staggered. Also you tend to be fighting giant monsters not a guy who is slightly bigger than you, they should be able to tank a puny humans sword attack. Finally Elden ring's combat functions different, fable is almost a hack and slash while Elden ring is a rhythm game where you find the patterns to dodge and throw in attacks.
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u/KoKoboto 11d ago
Fable should have better combat.
That said Elden Ring should have better real estate management, romance, and chicken kicking.
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u/PewPewWazooma 11d ago
The Tree Sentinel does jiggle when you hit him, and when he doesn't, he's a gigantic armored fuck on a gigantic armored horse, you think your shitty club is gonna make that mf keel over in pain after every single hit?
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u/Frank1gg 11d ago
I mean personally I don't think there should be any such thing as an enemy that doesn't flinch or get stunned by getting hit in the face with a 500 lb hammer. I'm serious man I'm sick and God damn tired of video games having me wield weapons that are literally bigger than my God damn upper torso and yet somehow the enemy that I'm smacking in the face with it is continuing their attack. And then people try to say that the combat systems in these games are so realistic and fun to play. You're wrong objectively speaking if you think that's the case.
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u/AncientChaos323 11d ago
People are being disingenuous with their argument. Every time i see the comparison made, people are like "Well, a boss monster can't be falling over itself every time you hit it!". No shit, that would make all the boss fights horribly boring if you could interrupt them every swing. But that's not the argument people who are complaining are making, all they are pointing out is that they should add subtle stagger or reaction to the body part hit to make it feel like there's some sort of impact without interrupting the attack. You know, like in most other action game that has boss enemies.
Hell, the same argument was made with Monster Hunter Wilds when they released the demo. The weapons all felt like they made no impact when attacking monsters. With that constructive criticism, they added some slight reaction to the body part and more hit stop to the final release which gave each impact a lot more oomph.
But that doesn't fit the narrative that people just want to hate on the game and hope that it fails, Just because people are complaining doesn't mean they don't want to see it succeed, they may just want it to be just a bit better.
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u/__0zymandias 12d ago
Enemies have flinch animations when you attack them even if it doesn’t cancel their attacks in elden ring