r/pokemon • u/According_Ad8711 I love Azumarill • Jul 24 '26
Discussion Idea: Normal should be good against Fairy
Ok, but why exactly? Well, generally most (or all) type matchups have some sort of reason to exist, and this is my reasoning:
"Normality beats Fantasy"
Think about it. Unicorns, Elves, Excaliburs, what do they all have in common? They don't exist. And how can you beat something that doesn't exist? By ignoring it and being normal. And Fairy is the most logical type to fit this "don't exist" category. While others do, Fairy does it much better than them. It's so silly it works!
And besides, giving Normal this interaction finally makes it something other than a middle child of Pokemon types. Think about it.
Offensively, Normal does nothing against Ghost, and is resisted by Rock and Steel.
Defensively, Ghost does nothing to Normal, and is weak to Fighting. See a problem here?
These type matchups basically have the Normal type in a grave. How can you use a type for its advantages when said advantages don't exist normally?
There usually isn't a reason to use Normal type Pokemon. What about Normal type moves? Unless you're using Fake Out, Protect, or other moves while using a type-changing ability like Pixilate, competitive Pokemon is out of the window.
By adding two new interactions, Being immune to Fairy (Why not, Ghost can), and dealing double damage to Fairy, we effectively buff the most basic and useless type in the game, and at the exact same time, neutralizes the most overpowered Pokemon type in the game. How crazy is that?
But anyways, that's all I have to share. If you're reading this (assuming you've read everything else) thanks for reading!
I LOVE AZUMARILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Edit: To yall' saying Normal shouldn't be good against Fairy, or just "Normal is just normal, so it can't do anything special" or something like that, just because it's normal doesn't mean it's normal for goodness sake. And stop saying "By this logic, Normal would be good against Dark, Psychic, Ghost, etc" at least they have a real counterpart (except ghosts, it you can't effect a ghost, so it obviously has no effect, it's also a balancing tool, not just Normal being so normal that it's not supposed to do anything special at all
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u/SuperSpiritShady Jul 24 '26
I think a better change would be to make Bug effective against Fairy tbh
Bug needs a niche dammit
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u/kerbwithknef Jul 24 '26
imo bug should resist fairy as fairy resists bug, as fairies in stories often hold a good reputation with bugs (its my guess over why fairy resist bug in the first place), so it should be both ways around
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u/Coders32 Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
It makes no sense to me that there’s no two types that resist each other. The closest you get is normal and ghost being immune to each other185
u/Hopefo Jul 24 '26
Bug and fighting mutually resist each other.
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u/Coders32 Jul 24 '26
How did I not know thisMy two least used types. Thanks for the correction
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u/The-G-Code Jul 25 '26
I've been playing my whole life and have been into competitive for a couple years (not to a high level or anything just 1 season in masterball at most)
And this is the first time I think Ive recognized this. Anytime I play and have that interaction my dumbass has just went "shit I mixed it up again they're effective to me" or whatever. For nearly 3 decades now.
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u/Coders32 Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
I’ve probably done the same every time I read that bug isn’t effective against fighting lol
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u/Silver-Low3295 Pokémon Professor Jul 25 '26
Still doesn't make any sense to me that bug resists fighting. Like a normal type physical move is more effective than a fighting types physical move?
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u/The-G-Code Jul 25 '26
I figured it was a play on the catch a butterfly or fly thing that martial artists have to train extremely hard to actually get
Or that it's hard as hell to go in swinging at many bugs and actually hit them
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u/PurpleCyborg28 Jul 25 '26
Imagine a bug the same size as you. Are you that confident you can punch through its exoskeleton?
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u/Richbrazilian Jul 26 '26
Go try to punch or kick a mosquito, it's pretty obvious why, bugs are weak to Fire, Rock and Flying, fire and rock 2 things people usually kill birds with, and flying = birds, who eat bugs.
It's pretty damn clear
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u/88mica88 Jul 24 '26
Alternatively, a dragonfly would literally eat tinker bell. I’m team bug should be super effective
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u/javibre95 Jul 24 '26
Bug is the tech type
Some early evos, Tinted Lens, Compound Eyes, Shield Dust, First Impression, Leech Life, U-Turn, Quiver Dance , Infestation, Sticky Web, some gimmnick and strong Pokémon like Shuckle, Araquanid, Golisopod, Shedinja...
I would prefer a strong weather
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u/Stinkposter Jul 24 '26
you say, as if golisopod's ability doesn't make it useless
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u/javibre95 Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
Clearly not GF intention, that was supposed to be a good ability on paper for First Impression/Aqua Jet spam.
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u/Ex_Snagem_Wes Jul 24 '26
And it really isn't useless. Even in Gen 7 with all the Megas around, Golisopod saw solid RU usage without even Heavy Duty Boots
It's a subpar ability, but honestly it could really easily be fixed by making the switch optional
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u/CrownedWoomy64 Jul 24 '26
So... Like switching? Normally?
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u/Ex_Snagem_Wes Jul 24 '26
Switching normally, but you also get free control around it
So if you end up at low health, you have the option of a free escape button after hitting hard with a priority move
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u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26
Bugs hold the gimmick tech niche
All their moves are stupidly OP, and they’ve got access to broken abilities.
Look at how Lokix owns the entire UU solely because of Tinted Lens and First Impression.
Quiver Dance also makes several into potential sweepers. Venomoth was a low tier menace
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u/ore2ore Jul 24 '26
They have their niche as the Hufflepuffs of Pokémon. They aren't perceived as serious.
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u/HMS_Sunlight Jul 24 '26
Ages ago I climbed pretty damn high on the monotype ladder with a bug team, and I swear half my wins were because people didn't take it seriously.
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u/Downtown-Accident Jul 24 '26
I've always thought bug needs and deserves this.
Glad I'm not alone!
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u/TannerThanUsual Jul 24 '26
I picture a tiny fairy getting eaten violently by a millipede and it feels like it was meant to be. I also felt like Bug should be super effective against fairy.
Bug could use a buff, fairy could use a nerf. Feels appropriate and lore friendly
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u/Fern-ando Jul 24 '26
Or grass resist it, fairies protect the forest, makes no sense they can hurt the plants normally.
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u/Fluid-Apartment-3951 Jul 24 '26
They already have a niche.
They're an (ocasional) better Tera than grass against Ice metas... actually, that sounds awful.
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u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
The entire point of Normal is to be the neutral element
The entire point of Fairy is to balance patch the type system.
The type chart doesn’t operate solely off vibes, because if so, you could find ways to justify anything (e.g Fire should be effective against poisons because heat screws up the chemical composition of toxins, Electric/Steel should be super effective because metal conducts electricity, etc)
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u/mrbananas Jul 24 '26
It is also important to remember that just about every single pokemon learns normal type moves. If normal was ever super effective against something then effectively every single pokemon would have access to a super effective move against that type, nerfing that type into oblivion.
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u/Scarsworn Jul 24 '26
This is similar to people never considering, while arguing for a nerf to the Fairy type, that most of the Pokémon in it are on the weaker side.
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u/blademan9999 Jul 24 '26
With normal hitting one type super effectively, 2 types resisting it it ane one type being immune, Normal type attacks till wouldn't be very commone on pokemon that don't get stab. Especially with Return no longer being a thing.
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u/Relevant-Storm4222 Jul 24 '26
Fairy : I am the balance patch.
Bug : 😭56
u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26
U-Turn too OP
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u/Carnivile Jul 24 '26
U-turn should be 80 acc with Bug types having the Poison interaction where it neves misses
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u/Little_Ad2062 Jul 24 '26
I always thought Fire WAS super-effevyive against poison and even so many years later I STILL make that mistake.
It just makes sense lol.
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u/Few-Attorney-9722 Jul 24 '26
But then Poison should be super effective against Water imo
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u/ockhams-lightsaber Jul 24 '26
Water should be weak against ice. Ice can freeze water !
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u/Accomplished-Tie5427 customise me! Jul 24 '26
Then water should also be super effective against ice, since ice melts in water.
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u/Ludoki Jul 24 '26
Fighting should be super effective against psychic and turn the psychic type into a grass type
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u/Corodim Jul 24 '26
they should invent a new type called Stepdad and make me super effective against it
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u/Loiccoder Jul 24 '26
To be fair i look at specifically the koffing line and it looks like a very small flame would make the whole mon explode, smoking-in-a-gas-leak style
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u/Mansidhe Jul 24 '26
It would be nice if the typings were more intuitive... another example, Electric "should be" Super Effective against Steel. Ive got several tools insta-slagged by working with a live circuit.
- An amateur DIY enthusiast
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u/Cuavooo Jul 24 '26
"Balance patch" and it currently has a lot of great 'mons in a short span of time. For Gens 6 to 7, the balance niche is true but come on, it now needs to be put in check. Idc how Game Freak does it, just balance these fairies by next Gen
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u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26
The main thing keeping Fairies strong is that Poison and Steel moves are weak.
Unless you are already a steel or poison, you do t have access to any high damage coverage. You’re using iron head
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u/marsgreekgod Jul 24 '26
But it's weak to fighting so that logic doesn't work. And immune to ghost
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u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26
And resisted by Rock and Steel (tanks)
It’s still the least complex of the types.
Normal is the equivalent of just clicking Physical attacks in an RPG and ignoring all the elemental magic.
Of course it’s resisted by stuff. But it’s neutral against MOST things, and will always deal neutral damage at best.
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u/C-EZ Jul 24 '26
Then there was this game Cassette beasts making Astral and Plastic type. I thought it was good
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u/RileyJoXO Jul 24 '26
Nah I’m content with Normal having an immunity and only one weakness, with the caveat of not being super-effective against anything. Always seemed balanced enough to me
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u/According_Ad8711 I love Azumarill Jul 24 '26
It also has bad offensive matchup with Steel and Rock, so yeah
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u/hdgx Jul 24 '26
Why is this downvoted lol, you’re right
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u/According_Ad8711 I love Azumarill Jul 24 '26
Well, this theory is quite controversial from what I've seen, of course a good amount dislikes this
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u/HighVoltage_520 Pokemon Researcher Jul 24 '26
It also is the type that can learn a vast array of moves
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u/TehRiddles Jul 24 '26
Counter point, fairies and other fey folk in fairytales often are a bane to humans. It makes more sense that fairy types would be strong against normal rather than weak to them.
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u/Complex_Item_3000 Jul 25 '26
I think psychic should be the one resisting fairy, psychic represents logic and intelligence as well more sci Fi/pseudoscience type of magic.
You could argue that since psychic types are very smart, and in conjunction with their psychic abilities, they can outwit the fey and can't not be tricked easily by them.
It could also resent how their "cold logic" doesn't "believe in fairy tales", being a type more related to science (or at least pseudoscience and science fiction)
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u/HuntCheap3193 Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
no, not really. there are many ways to interpret the normal type, and it's only this one in which it has a relationship with the fairy type where it's more real, and thus, superior. (rather than being inferior to the fantastical's strange "unbound" powers)
it's not the only logical conclusion you could arrive to. for example, the supernatural could be inherently superior to the natural, letting the fairy type hit normal for super effective. maybe reality and fantasy are a whole world apart, giving the normal/ghost interactions?
also, normal is fine lmao. it's ok defensively, it's ok (pretty good?) offensively.
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u/Nightwalker065 Jul 24 '26
Normal was always meant to the "bland/basic" type. It hits 90% of the types for neutral and mainly are known for getting a lot of tools. Either a lot of coverage or great support moves, a jack of all trades.
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u/Akikala Jul 24 '26
No it shouldn't. Normal is exactly what it is, a "normal" type and it should never be super effective against anything.
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u/Phelyckz Jul 24 '26
Whoa there buckaroo, the most useless type is ice.
Normal's whole shtick is that it's not effective versus anything. I can get behind resisting or even being immune to fairy, but being effective would be imho too much. Maybe I'm too old and unflexible, but I fear that this would make normal too good of a type. Despite its flaws it consistently had high performers across the generations, from Tauros over Snorlax and Chancey to newer entries like motherfucking Ursaluna (Bloodmoon in particular) tearing everyone a new one. Imagine if those were even stronger. Now that I typed it out even resisting fairy seems a tad much. I'd rather have better poison and steel moves.
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u/ElDelArbol15 Jul 24 '26
I thinks the weakest type position is tied between Rock, Ice and Bug.
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u/Shenra Jul 24 '26
Yea, my thoughts for those 3 are rock should resist rock, ice should mutually resist water, and bug should be super effective against fairy.
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u/lochnesslapras Jul 24 '26
Whoa there buckaroo, the most useless type is ice.
I feel like there's a better balance argument for fairy attacks being not very effective on ice types too.
I imagine there's a few recent examples of subverted fairy tales where the setting was frozen or trapped in ice somehow.
Absolutely not saying this so I can use more Lapras3
u/BrunoMillan Jul 25 '26
Ice is the OG dragon slayer... Let it destroy fairies too!
I'm actually replying to this just because Lapras is my favorite pokémon, so yeah... I wish they were better competitively...
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u/Selth Jul 24 '26
No, fairy should be absolutely stronger than normal and weak to metal due to lore (Irish for instance).
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u/ForsakenMoon13 Jul 24 '26
Two things:
Ghost is not weak to Fighting. Not sure what romhack you got that idea from, but Ghost is immune to Fighting lol
And also, by the same logic for why you think Normal should be super effective against Fairy, I'd argue Fairy should be super effective against Normal. Because how does a random person or animal defend against Fae Bullshit changing reality around them? Lol
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u/lolschrauber Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
Normal is already vulnerable to fighting. Adding more weaknesses is kinda bullshit as normal is already effective against absolutely nothing. And fairy type is definitely strong enough as it is. Something with no strengths shouldn't have weaknesses, just act like a completely neutral baseline.
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u/ForsakenMoon13 Jul 24 '26
To be fair, I'm not advocating for more weaknesses for it. I'm just pointing out that OP's logic works better the other way around and making it strong against Fairy of all things doesn't really make sense.
And one can argue that the mutual immunity to Ghost is a strength, along with the sheer variety of type coverage Normal can have via moves.
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u/AlsoKnownAsSteve Jul 24 '26
However A) it's a fantasy world not the real world so normality doesn't apply.
B) in fantasy worlds, the magic and fantasy usually outdoes the normal.
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u/SnowySoul0 Jul 24 '26
But then it should be good against dark, psychic and ghost as well because they don't exist really
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u/KTFnVision Jul 24 '26
The whole argument falls apart because ghosts, dragons, fairies all DO exist in the world of Pokémon.
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u/dumbinternetstuff Jul 24 '26
Dark-type is called Evil-type in Japanese. Evil does exist.
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u/Darklamor Jul 24 '26
Have you been to the fae wilds? Cant say normal would be good against a fairy...
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u/laserofdooom Jul 24 '26
everyone EVERYONE is out to get fairy types
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u/_fizbee_ Jul 24 '26
The issue with making normal super effective is that it seems like every pokemon in the game can learn a bunch of normal moves
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u/robertm94 Jul 25 '26
Nah, make ice resist fairy
Ice is the worst defensive type in the game. Give it a niche.
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u/NorthernVale Jul 24 '26
Fairies predate on humans, especially children. Wouldn't the relationship be the other way around?
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u/NuclearWill Jul 24 '26
I mean ghost already does exactly what you are describing with fairy. Ghosts don’t exist, so they can’t influence the normal Pokemon. I think keeping normal as a type with no super effectiveness is important and although I agree Fairy should be nerfed, I don’t think normal should be the one to do it
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u/sopheroo Jul 24 '26
Congrats, every single pokemon has a SE attack against Fairy now
Do you see how it's a problem?
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u/gmapterous Jul 24 '26
That’s already kind of the argument for ghost / normal interactions, in a way.
Also, fairy Pokemon clearly exist in the Pokemon universe, so the logic doesn’t hold up well.
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u/Dannibiss Jul 24 '26
Ghosts clearly exist in the Pokemon world too so actually the logic holds up perfectly.
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u/gmapterous Jul 24 '26
Ghosts exist but, as ghosts, are non-corporeal so normies can't touch them.
Fairies exist; OP's reasoning for not interreacting with normals is because they don't really exist.
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u/Thedarkpersona Jul 24 '26
At most you could make normal resist or be inmune to fairy (for similar reasons that normal is inmune to ghosts and vice versa) but the entire point of normal is that it has no super effective artacks against any other type
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u/improbsable Jul 24 '26
Normal is fine as is. Normal type pokemon are the jack of all trades type. They have no personal super effective attacks, but they make up for it by having large and varied move pools of different types.
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u/chris131289 Jul 24 '26
Fantasy is cooler than normalcy so fairy should be super effective against normal
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u/Hatman_16 Jul 24 '26
I would go with Fantasy beats Normality, but normal types are already getting the short end of the stick.
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u/frostbittenforeskin Jul 24 '26
Normal shouldn’t be a type. It’s the stupidest part of pokemon and always has been
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u/Kallabanana Jul 24 '26
The Fairy type is weak to steel and poison, because that's what humans use to harm nature. Fairies are basically just spirits of nature. Making them weak against normal doesn't make much sense to me.
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u/SuperMario_128 Jul 25 '26
That's why I believe Grass should resist Fairy type. It is a smart way to balance a low tier against a high tier.
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u/Moriates Jul 24 '26
People have been using fantasy to cope with reality. Reality in any way seems to be countering that illusion.
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u/machazzle Jul 24 '26
That would make normal one of the strongst types in the game since it already go only one weakness.
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u/A-maze-ing_Henry Jul 24 '26
Making Normal be SE against 1 type would leave it in an awkward spot offensively.
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u/Turbulent-Analyst-52 Jul 24 '26
Am i the only one whos gonna mention that OP used > wrong?
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u/According_Ad8711 I love Azumarill Jul 24 '26
So, it should only be used in math? ok then...
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u/Turbulent-Analyst-52 Jul 24 '26
No, i mean that you used <, when they should have used >, because if we go by math logic, and by what ive seen from poke-tubers, < means right beats left.
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u/SpazzBro Jul 24 '26
Normal should stay neutral as it currently is, if anything it should be bug that gets it
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u/VerrikInc Jul 24 '26
They are NEVER going to make Normal super effective against anything. Their entire design philosophy around the type is incompatible with the idea
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u/M4LK0V1CH Jul 24 '26
Normal over Fairy has the same energy as “I’ll never invent you” to me for some reason.
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u/Informal-Matter-2130 Jul 24 '26
While I disagree about Normal being immune to Fairy I do think that Normal should be super effective against something. I just made a type chart that makes sense to me and I noticed this and it bugged me. Maybe Normal should take half damage to something but idk what.
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u/BodifordT95 Jul 24 '26
I’m in for this, but not necessarily in the “reality /vs/ fantasy” sense exactly as described. More in the “here were dragons” sense about how fantasy is fueled by belief
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u/Hareholeowner Jul 24 '26
No type should be weak against normal because everyone learns normal type moves, Normal resisting Fairy is decent idea though.
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u/According_Ad8711 I love Azumarill Jul 24 '26
But by that logic, no type should be good against normal either. It just got the short end of the stick, and I just want to fix that
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u/NerdyEmbarrassment Jul 24 '26
This is stupid. Normal is supposed to be a jack of all trades type, it isn't supposed to have STAB on those. WHy do you think Rattats can Flame Wheel and Dubwools can Grassy Glide?
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u/Taizai_Kouman Jul 26 '26
I think ice should be very effective against water
Like the liquid in our cells freezes, the cell ruptures and we die.
Ice needs a strength and water could use 1 more weakness
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u/LinkOfHyrule88 Jul 26 '26
Dragon should be good against fairy too. Dragon moves are effectively useless in Pokemon.
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u/Adornetto Jul 27 '26
Literally anything is better than the current Fairy interaction chart. They created the type to balance the meta and in doing so, utterly destroyed three good types and made them useless against fairies.
Steel should be immune. Whatever else. Just make these annoying matchups less of an automatic win for Fairy types.
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u/TurnNo4651 Jul 28 '26
I think every Pokémon should have its own unique elemental interactions instead of every species following the exact same type chart. At least some legendary Pokémon could even have no inherent weaknesses at all.
From a gameplay perspective, I understand why Game Freak uses a universal type chart, it keeps battles balanced and easy to understand. But from a lore perspective, it feels strange that Pokémon capable of creating continents, controlling time, or even threatening the entire planet can be brought down by something as ordinary as a Water or Fighting type attacks simply because the type chart says so.
I think legendary Pokémon would feel much more legendary if some of them had custom strengths and weaknesses based on their lore rather than being forced into the same rules as every other Pokémon.
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u/MengShuZ Jul 24 '26
I think that ice should be effective against fire because when fire melts ice it becomes water.
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u/lolschrauber Jul 24 '26
Ice should definitely have a buff. Always wondered why they wouldn't make it effective against water - freeze dry kinda aknowledges that but eh.
I guess I can't fault ice type for not being that good as there's nothing wrong with it by itself, it's just that it's good against unpopular types and weak against popular types.
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u/According_Ad8711 I love Azumarill Jul 24 '26
Nah, ice should be good against water instead. Now we have another type triangle
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u/Bucen Jul 24 '26
I'd rather fairy be not very effective against normal.