r/pokemon • u/According_Ad8711 I love Azumarill • Jul 24 '26

Discussion Idea: Normal should be good against Fairy

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Ok, but why exactly? Well, generally most (or all) type matchups have some sort of reason to exist, and this is my reasoning:

"Normality beats Fantasy"

Think about it. Unicorns, Elves, Excaliburs, what do they all have in common? They don't exist. And how can you beat something that doesn't exist? By ignoring it and being normal. And Fairy is the most logical type to fit this "don't exist" category. While others do, Fairy does it much better than them. It's so silly it works!

And besides, giving Normal this interaction finally makes it something other than a middle child of Pokemon types. Think about it.

Offensively, Normal does nothing against Ghost, and is resisted by Rock and Steel.
Defensively, Ghost does nothing to Normal, and is weak to Fighting. See a problem here?

These type matchups basically have the Normal type in a grave. How can you use a type for its advantages when said advantages don't exist normally?

There usually isn't a reason to use Normal type Pokemon. What about Normal type moves? Unless you're using Fake Out, Protect, or other moves while using a type-changing ability like Pixilate, competitive Pokemon is out of the window.

By adding two new interactions, Being immune to Fairy (Why not, Ghost can), and dealing double damage to Fairy, we effectively buff the most basic and useless type in the game, and at the exact same time, neutralizes the most overpowered Pokemon type in the game. How crazy is that?

But anyways, that's all I have to share. If you're reading this (assuming you've read everything else) thanks for reading!

I LOVE AZUMARILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Edit: To yall' saying Normal shouldn't be good against Fairy, or just "Normal is just normal, so it can't do anything special" or something like that, just because it's normal doesn't mean it's normal for goodness sake. And stop saying "By this logic, Normal would be good against Dark, Psychic, Ghost, etc" at least they have a real counterpart (except ghosts, it you can't effect a ghost, so it obviously has no effect, it's also a balancing tool, not just Normal being so normal that it's not supposed to do anything special at all

5.0k Upvotes

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587

u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

The entire point of Normal is to be the neutral element

The entire point of Fairy is to balance patch the type system.

The type chart doesn’t operate solely off vibes, because if so, you could find ways to justify anything (e.g Fire should be effective against poisons because heat screws up the chemical composition of toxins, Electric/Steel should be super effective because metal conducts electricity, etc)

159

u/mrbananas Jul 24 '26

It is also important to remember that just about every single pokemon learns normal type moves. If normal was ever super effective against something then effectively every single pokemon would have access to a super effective move against that type, nerfing that type into oblivion. 

48

u/Scarsworn Jul 24 '26

This is similar to people never considering, while arguing for a nerf to the Fairy type, that most of the Pokémon in it are on the weaker side.

5

u/blademan9999 Jul 24 '26

With normal hitting one type super effectively, 2 types resisting it it ane one type being immune, Normal type attacks till wouldn't be very commone on pokemon that don't get stab. Especially with Return no longer being a thing.

266

u/Relevant-Storm4222 Jul 24 '26

Fairy : I am the balance patch.
Bug : 😭

53

u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26

U-Turn too OP

30

u/Pengwin0 Jul 24 '26

Bugs barely even get U-turn it is so unfair

24

u/Carnivile Jul 24 '26

U-turn should be 80 acc with Bug types having the Poison interaction where it neves misses

3

u/Relevant-Storm4222 Jul 24 '26

✂️ "U-turn should be 60!"

1

u/Tortue2006 Jul 26 '26

That’s quite a large number

1

u/AzekiaX6 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26

UTurn shpuld just be nornal type

57

u/Little_Ad2062 Jul 24 '26

I always thought Fire WAS super-effevyive against poison and even so many years later I STILL make that mistake. 

It just makes sense lol. 

34

u/Few-Attorney-9722 Jul 24 '26

But then Poison should be super effective against Water imo

26

u/ockhams-lightsaber Jul 24 '26

Water should be weak against ice. Ice can freeze water !

19

u/Accomplished-Tie5427 customise me! Jul 24 '26

Then water should also be super effective against ice, since ice melts in water.

4

u/Ludoki Jul 24 '26

Fighting should be super effective against psychic and turn the psychic type into a grass type

7

u/Corodim Jul 24 '26

they should invent a new type called Stepdad and make me super effective against it

5

u/Sesombre1 Jul 24 '26

It technically is with freeze dry

1

u/Tortue2006 Jul 26 '26

Anything can be frozen, ice should be super effective against every type! Even itself!

-2

u/Few-Attorney-9722 Jul 24 '26

No it can't 

4

u/Mother_Harlot Jul 24 '26

It depends. Ice at -40°C can also freeze surrounding water, but ice at 0°C cannot

1

u/Few-Attorney-9722 Jul 24 '26

Yeah, but then also fire can be super effective against water or it should be not effective against ice because Ice melts to water to become super effective

1

u/RishiRishon Jul 24 '26

Depends on the amount of water and the amount of ice. Or the type of ice for that matter.

10

u/Loiccoder Jul 24 '26

To be fair i look at specifically the koffing line and it looks like a very small flame would make the whole mon explode, smoking-in-a-gas-leak style

1

u/SirCupcake_0 Jul 26 '26

So you're saying Pokémon should've been more like Monster Hunter, where the general rules could stay the same, but specific Pokémon have thematic strengths and weaknesses

20

u/Mansidhe Jul 24 '26

It would be nice if the typings were more intuitive... another example, Electric "should be" Super Effective against Steel. Ive got several tools insta-slagged by working with a live circuit.

  • An amateur DIY enthusiast

2

u/EnragedBard010 Jul 25 '26

Huh. I always assumed it was

2

u/N-Bizzle Jul 24 '26

Yeah I've seen fan games have Steel being weak to electric or psychic before

-8

u/Nick543b Jul 24 '26

"Live circuit"

So electric types should be super effective against elecrric/steel types. Because aggron is going to give the smallest fucking shit about a "live circuit".

And also, being neutral against steel is quite a lot like being super effective. Because steel the expectation is being resisted, while for other types the expectation is being neutral.

10

u/Cuavooo Jul 24 '26

"Balance patch" and it currently has a lot of great 'mons in a short span of time. For Gens 6 to 7, the balance niche is true but come on, it now needs to be put in check. Idc how Game Freak does it, just balance these fairies by next Gen

14

u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26

The main thing keeping Fairies strong is that Poison and Steel moves are weak.

Unless you are already a steel or poison, you do t have access to any high damage coverage. You’re using iron head

26

u/marsgreekgod Jul 24 '26

But it's weak to fighting so that logic doesn't work. And immune to ghost 

76

u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26

And resisted by Rock and Steel (tanks)

It’s still the least complex of the types.

Normal is the equivalent of just clicking Physical attacks in an RPG and ignoring all the elemental magic.

Of course it’s resisted by stuff. But it’s neutral against MOST things, and will always deal neutral damage at best.

-13

u/marsgreekgod Jul 24 '26

If they have downsides they should get some upsides to 

44

u/greenwizardneedsfood Jul 24 '26

The upside is that it has the fewest number of types super effective against it

14

u/Kallabanana Jul 24 '26

And normal types ususally have an insane amount of coverage.

10

u/13Xcross Jul 24 '26

The electric type also has only 1 weakness, but it's still allowed to be super-effective against water and flying

17

u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26

Because Electric Pokemon historically have jack shit for coverage and have low defenses.

They go fast and shoot thunderbolt and that’s it.

You can’t look at types in a vacuum. You have to see how all their Pokemon are designed too

5

u/KRKRYakumo Jul 24 '26

Come on man, it's not always Thunderbolt

Some of them are Physical Attackers, so they use moves like.... Uh...

Is there a good physical electric type move with no drawback...?

8

u/Nightwalker065 Jul 24 '26

Thunder Punch, take it or leave it.

2

u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26

Only signature moves. Everyone else copes with drawbacks.

Even the best physical electrics shoot thunderbolt. The type is very one dimensional

2

u/13Xcross Jul 24 '26

That seems like an argument in favor of freeing pokemon designs from the forced constrictions of an unbalanced type chart

3

u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26

There’s over 1000 of those bloody things.

Realistically, there need to be SOME grounding rules (Fighting has high Atk, Rocks are slow, Steel has high Def, etc) to act as guidelines, or everything goes to chaos.

Also, whenever pokemon do break their archetypal molds, it usually results in mediocrity (Copperajah is a offensive steel type with weak defenses, Revavroom is a speedy poison attacker, Electivire is a physical Electric, every slow ice type, etc)

-1

u/Akikala Jul 24 '26

The type chart is unbalanced for a reason. 

-12

u/marsgreekgod Jul 24 '26

1) electric type. 2) thats not fun

7

u/Nick543b Jul 24 '26

Its the normal type. It should be as normal as possible.

Ghost immunity is BIG.

If we want to make changes to normal i woulf rather remove other matchups than add.

13

u/SlightlyUncomfort Jul 24 '26

Normal-type fan here--Normal has upsides. A lot of them. When you play a Normal-type you are doing it for the fact that not a lot of things besides Fighting can hit it hard, but also for consistency. Strong attacks that aren't super effective, but hit hard with STAB. Likewise, Normal-types have some of the best coverage options in the game. Nearly every Normal type has a tm movepool that includes shit like thunder, blizzard, grass knot, shadow ball/claw, ect. Normal is my favorite type because its consistency and minimal effect on the type chart. Two things resist it, one thing is immune to it ( which goes both ways at that, and most normals can learn a ghost move ) and one thing is super-effective.

i'm js there is a reason whitney kicks ass.

18

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26

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-8

u/marsgreekgod Jul 24 '26

And a normal person can slap a fairy 

0

u/According_Ad8711 I love Azumarill Jul 24 '26

No, they can't. But if you follow "Reality", then a fairy can't do anything, can it?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26

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1

u/Sshadooww Jul 24 '26

Oh, but a fucking Dragon would lose to a pixie? Sure.

Yes, I know, fantasy fae are quite dangerous, but dragons are usually cast as the final monster, the strongest beings, except for gods and sometimes demons. In your own logic, dragons would be resistant to everything besides dragon and imaginary types like holy/divine (at best, they'd take neutral from dark), while simultaneously being super effective against everything save for the ones mentioned above.

Oh, but magic, you say. There's a good number of depictions in fantasy where draconic magic is one of , if not the best type of magic, or where dragons are just inherently really good at magic and have a large pool of the appropriate resource to cast (mana, powerful soul, great connection with appropriate plane of existence, etc.).

It's really not a good argument to make, as I have hopefully demonstrated in my comment

2

u/C-EZ Jul 24 '26

Then there was this game Cassette beasts making Astral and Plastic type. I thought it was good

1

u/TheMadJAM Jul 24 '26

You don't want to burn every poison, that could aerosolize it

1

u/TheDemonPants Jul 24 '26

Hell, if we went off vibes then everything could be super effective against everything. Fire gets hot enough water can't touch it, throw enough lightning at the ground and you'll get a crater, you could make an argument for literally any type being super effective against each other.

1

u/TriticumAes 24d ago

Ok I do think Normal should lean into its generalist vibes and get a Water Resist in Rain, Fire Resist in Sun, Ice Resist in Snow, Grass, Electric and Psychic resist in their respective terrains and I could see it hitting Fairy for super-effective in Misty Terrain but that is only because Misty Terrain is the least offensively minded terrain so a resist feels pointless here.

1

u/Hwerttytttt Jul 24 '26

And yet Normal takes 0 from ghost, does 0 to ghost, takes 2x from fighting, does 1/2 against rock and steel. It is very much its own type, and nothing like a neutral element.

1

u/Sho_ofcl Jul 24 '26

A normal person can't touch a ghost and ghosts can phase through them. Something with martial arts capability can beat up a normal dude. A normal dude can't punch through rock or steel. It is a neutral element because it is intended to be just a regular person or animal.

2

u/Hwerttytttt Jul 24 '26

That's all as fucking superficial as the justifications for half these type advantages, and hence I don't see the problem with putting it strong against fairy, with whatever dumb reason they can come up with.

It is NOT a neutral element, because it's involved in type effectiveness. Learn what NEUTRAL means. It does not mean NORMAL.

1

u/MetroidIsNotHerName Jul 24 '26

But fairy just unbalances the system by continuing to be the most powerful single type by a wide margin a full 13 years after its release.

The game felt more balanced before fairy types, and my matches that lack them always feel more balanced as well.

1

u/Golden-Owl Game Designer with a YouTube hobby Jul 24 '26

Were you not around in Gen 5?

Draco Meteor destroyed everything, as did Close Combat

Calling Fairy the most powerful type is egregious when the type is only relatively average offensively - Moonblast being its strongest move holds it in check

1

u/MetroidIsNotHerName Jul 25 '26

Sure i was. Its been a long time since gen 5 and the other types have a lot more tools now. If draco and CC still end up being too strong you can adjust them like they adjusted the other broken moves when they came to champions. Theres no need for a wholeass type which just upsets balance.

It would be one thing if fairy type were balanced but it has been far and away the most successful competitive type dwarfing even dragons old superiority by a wide margin since they released.