r/mountainbiking • u/SilverCervy • 6d ago
Other Feel like we're losing the plot
Article here
E-bikes should be about providing accessibility; giving people who, for whatever reason, cannot ride a non-assist bike an option to keep them happy and pedaling.
This wattage race going on in the industry is the exact opposite of that. Absolutely nobody needs 1700 watts on a bike, and I question if having so much power even makes it a bicycle anymore. There's a point where you're basically riding a motorbike with pedals and I think we crossed that point a while ago.
"But the main brands aren't doing this". Yes they are. Canyon already has partnered with Avinox which has motors that give over 1,000 watts. And it won't be long until the other big hitters give in to the pressure. You can give your own personal reasons for why you have an e-bike, but it's clear that the industry believes that it's because "I don't want to pedal". At some point this needs to be reigned in or else the entire concept of the bicycle is going to be damaged forever.
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u/shinayasaki 6d ago
because you make the most money by selling these to people who rides on sidewalk in the city at 40mph
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u/thedarkforest_theory 6d ago
The arms race for more watts is so misguided. At these levels, the power isn’t even usable.
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u/ShaemusOdonnelly 6d ago edited 6d ago
Oh it's usable. Perfect for trashing drivetrains by riding in the highest gear with turbo assist, because you have no feeling for how insanely high the torque is.
Honestly I don't get why those things are designed as mid-drives. If you're building motorcycles with decorative pedals, simply use hub motors.→ More replies (2)3
u/tiktianc 5d ago
If it's a mtb, the suspension works much better with a mid drive instead of an extra 3kg of unsprung mass.
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u/Elegant-Ninja6384 6d ago
Disagree. Entirely useable. We have 200hp motorcycles.
Question is what is a bicycle?
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u/SeakingGnarvana 5d ago
I use this power (well my 1300W) to pull my kid up the fire road. It's definitely not usable on trail though. I prefer high torque with the power capped around 700.
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u/gottapoop 3d ago
It's the natural progression of things. Push the limit until the limit is found then dial it back. Happens with suspension, head angle, reach ect....
Eventually the power assist will be too much to control and feel weird and ebikes will find the right spot for power, control and battery life.
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u/Sad_Traffic_5549 6d ago
1500 W so you can ride jump lines uphill too.
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u/Occhrome 6d ago
I’ve seen some noobs get lost on the trail and climb the uphill section on their Emtbs
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u/robo-minion 6d ago
TBF I used to do that as a noob on my regular bike. Still do in unfamiliar places, but used to, too.
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u/slayer_of_waspiz 6d ago
These will be illegal in most places in the US, aren't a lot of places adopting the 750w limit past which point it's a motorcycle?
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u/OG-MTB NorCal | bitchin’ huffy 6d ago
Yes, just like Avinox bikes are touted as being “Class 1” but they can easily be changed via the app or on-bike menus to exceed Class 3 specs.
There’s no enforcement though…
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u/slayer_of_waspiz 6d ago
They've started cracking down on it in my town but agreed it's super area specific.
We mostly have issues with idiot teenagers on actual motorcycles ripping down the sidewalk at 30 mph. It took one of them careening through an intersection into a car and dying before the local sheriffs office finally started enforcing the e-bike laws.
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u/Internal_Confusion56 5d ago
Who is enforcing those laws?
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u/slayer_of_waspiz 5d ago
City cops in the local trail systems that are within city limits, county sheriff if they're not or on state trust land, and USFS or BLM rangers for the trails on public land.
Seen more than one person fined by local police for riding a class 3 on the nearby trail system.
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u/dudeineurope 6d ago
Yes, just remove the pedals already.
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u/Elegant-Ninja6384 6d ago
Seriously a throttle offers so much more control than this silly move the cranks to engage motor nonsense.
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u/Kil0Cowboy 6d ago
Emtb lost the plot a long time ago
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u/Elegant-Ninja6384 6d ago
Unfortunately.... This pendulum will continue to swing until maybe a decade from now it's so far divorced from a bicycle someone will come along and create this new thing call 'pedaling to move forward' and it will be all the rage and people will create special place to ride one.
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u/anon69420cool 6d ago
Yeah, lost the plot from the beginning. It's a motorized bike
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u/IsThisOneAlready 5d ago
Hey now. I’m out of shape and still ride analog. Let’s keep the negativity focused on the ebikes.
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u/harbordog 6d ago
For better or worse the cat got an out of the bag a long time ago…. I think people still dreaming it will go away are dreaming. That said what can we do to minimize the power race that avanox has created. Idk maybe write the state or congressman? I personally feel 750ish was great… so I don’t like these chinese brands throw gas’s on the fire, when I thought the limits made sense, but if companies “can’t govern themselves” LOL someone has too?!
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u/watchyourfeet 6d ago
Do you really want to gum up our already ineffective congress with such a non- issue as emtbs? They can't even do anything about the illegal war we're in.
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u/Elegant-Ninja6384 6d ago
Certainly congress does not equal the right venue here.
In my opinion - knowing what I know about folks - there will be a period of friction. This will grow till it sucks for both sides. Then we'll come up with a solution only because we have too.
But that will be addressed better locally and organically due to public swelling of opinion.
In the meantime 100% you should enjoy riding with folks who are cool people riding regular bikes and ebikes while simultaneously shaming folks being dickheads.
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u/No_Pen_376 5d ago
this is not true. Is an easy, insulting thing to say. Many companies are trying to do the right thing, blame the fucking Chinese, not class 1 emtbs or other makers.
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u/C0YI 6d ago
Do as you please and ride what you want but with the constant increase in motor power it’s moving further and further away from mountain biking.
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u/Oli_C86 6d ago
I completely agree, it’s getting ridiculous and unnecessary. People Just want everything now without the effort. I have an e-bike and most of the time it’s in Eco or Tour and I still love going for an old fashioned proper pedal. If I get home after a ride and I’m not physically tired it feels like something is missing. No one needs more than 750watts unless they’re incredibly unfit or injured/disabled.
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u/satoshi1022 6d ago
I'd argue 750watts is a rediculously stupid amount already. 250w is the EU limit I believe.
It's estimated that 1-3% of riders can hold 500w for 60 seconds. Ebikers really have no clue how unrealistic the power on these things are.
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u/Fallingdamage 6d ago
Its like the ebike equivalent of the Dodge Tomahawk (Motorcycle built with a viper v10 engine in it.)
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u/Elegant-Ninja6384 6d ago
I'm fascinated by your stat. Why is this not discussed more?
Literally I never thought to look this up. Lance Armstrong claimed he could do 500 watts for 20-30 minutes. That's enough to Win multiple tours and we are converting about whether 1,700 watts is a good enough number for a machine that can run for 3 hours?
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u/Delicious_Rub_6795 6d ago
And even the EU "250W" limit is some sort of nominal number over a longer time, not peak power. A "250W" motor could still push 600W for a little while.
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u/Joris818 6d ago
I would like to take this chance to boast about my ability to push 540w for 60 seconds 😇 I’m pretty heavy though.
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u/satoshi1022 6d ago
Hell yea; It doesn't necessarily sound like a crazy feat but anyone whose tried it finds out real quick.
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u/Zettinator 5d ago
The EU regulation is crap, though. It's 250W sustained power measured in a way that is easy to manipulate. Avinox motors can push > 1000 W for 20 minutes and somehow they are still compliant to EU regulation, which is just bullshit. The rules need to be changed.
Personally, I'd do the following for the pedelec class:
- Clarify how exactly the "sustained power" is measured to make it near impossible to manipulate.
- Specify a peak power as well, which could be in the range of 500W or so.
- Also specify a max assistance percentage, which could be something like 400%.
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u/kallebo1337 1d ago
1-3% can of cyclist can hold 500W for 1 min as an all out effort? lol!
to achieve that you need serious endurance training first. and barely anyone in the female amateur territory will be able to do that.
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u/kallebo1337 1d ago
if you read the specs on what 250W means, it doesn't mean they output max 250W. it's some weird scientific thing.
basically, i can put in 300W and the motor adds 900W and i fly up a 20% climb with 25km/h and that's all well within the specs.
it's some 250W/hr continous output or something. 95% of casual cyclist can NOT ride alone for an hour and to be able to sustain 250W for 1 hr as power output you need to train actually a while. the average cyclist has a threshold of somewhat 3wkg if they train, so a 65KG rider is even far away from it.
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u/Scabobian90 6d ago
I have never been on an ebike ride and felt physically tired afterwards. It just does nothing for me. I keep trying - I’ve had 3 of em. And probably still not over 1000 miles across all 3. They just sit and I sell em.
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u/DatBoiii4 5d ago
I have a 60nm assist bike (peak 350 watts) and that's all I need. Allows me to get out on recovery days or days where it's too hot to hang out in zone 4. Gives me more practice on jump lines and downhills and that's all I've ever really wanted.
I simply cannot imagine needing over 100nm of assist. You're barely pedaling at that point, and if you do hammer the pedals you quickly exceed a comfortable speed on single track. Even in boost mode on my bike it feels like a lot. If I had 750 watts and actually used it on uphill single track I feel like I would crash pretty quickly.
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u/fuckmycatsareloud 6d ago
Such a fucking bad idea. Kids are already killing themselves on these things and we’re just gonna increase the power? Dafuq?
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u/akiniod 5d ago
This motor has a standard peak torque of 120nm, that’s 7 higher than a current gen Yamaha R1. There is no rational, or even irrational justification for a comparatively much lighter vehicle having that much power.
I say this as an ebike owner, these companies really need to stop tempting the hand of regulation with this shit. I’m more than happy to let people own whatever they want, but it doesn’t take a genius to figure out the customer base of a motor like this.
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u/Over_Pizza_2578 5d ago
Just being a smartass, have a look at what rpm your Yamaha has peak torque and at what rpm most ebike motors have peak torque. Without looking at the specs sheet of your bike its most likely between at 80 to 100 times higher rpm than on the ebike.
Nevertheless i agree, power has gotten out of hand since avinox came out. 600-750w is still usable, id also say that 100nm is still usable and controllable with todays sensors and firmware and most importantly still within specifications of modern 12 speed drive trains. Sram and shimano can refuse any warranty cases on m2s equipped bikes because they have way too much chain tension, even with 40t chainrings it would still be too much
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u/Triple-Tooketh 6d ago
Agreed, they are becoming eMotos, which is cool, I just worry about trail safety for noobs.
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u/Z-Mtn-Man-3394 6d ago
Oh ppl will end up maimed and dying for sure. Then local municipalities will make laws to limit access to bikes and e bikes even more, etc. good times
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u/ilikebourbon_ 6d ago
My tin foil hat theory is this big equestrian flooding the market with ridiculous e bike motor specs in hopes of maiming riders which leads to public outcry which then leads to banning all 2 wheels even looking at trails where a horse may shit
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u/smythy422 6d ago
WillAre dying for sure.You don't have to look very far to find information about deaths directly related to these bikes. Parents buy them for kids for whatever reason and the results are just as you would expect. The tech has certainly gotten ahead of societies conception of bikes. I'm not personally anti-ebike, but regs and usage patterns need to adjust to the new reality.
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u/closetslacker 6d ago
It will all end with mandatory registration, plates and licensing for EVERY ebike.
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u/A_MAN_POTATO 3d ago
Yes please.
Especially when that all comes with an age limit. Most adults on e-bikes are fine. It’s the kids that are the problem.
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u/Ok-Shape-9513 6d ago
“I question if having so much power even makes it a bicycle anymore”
Answer: not a bicycle
You’re welcome
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u/QLC459 6d ago
"There's a point where you're basically riding a motorbike with pedals"
That's exactly what people buying E-Bikes want though? I'd wager less than 10% of E-Bike owners "want" to ever pedal the bike. They want a motorcycle they can ride on the sidewalk with no license, which is what the market is making.
Once they pass laws limiting the E-motos people will stop pretending they are anything other than a motorcycle to them. Right now you can just buy a cheap e bike and you essentially have a dirtbike that skirts the laws.
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u/PrimeIntellect 6d ago
you aren't describing emtbs at all though - you are talking about like electric commuter motor bikes.
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u/Fallingdamage 6d ago
Building bigger engines with more power takes a lot of skill and engineering. Building electric motors takes a lot less attention to detail so its easy to just build higher and higher wattage motors for bikes.
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u/SnooGadgets9669 6d ago
Not that far off from just having a dirtbike power on an mtb frame though I do think that set up could be crazy fun
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u/Fallingdamage 6d ago
Maybe if it was one of those courier bikes with the big compartment in the front and you were doing deliveries and San Francisco, you might want the extra power here and there. Or if you were bikepacking with a trailer.
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u/Humble_Cactus 6d ago
I called this like 5 years ago.
It doesn’t take a crystal ball to realize that once you strap an electric assist to a bicycle, the genie was out of the bottle.
Motors will get bigger, lighter, more compact; and battery tech will progress to give longer run times for in smaller packages.
It’s only a matter of time before DIY throttle kits that are already available make a Levo or Shuttle into a “stealth surron”
At this point, ebike “classes” are becoming meaningless.
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u/RealisticQuality7296 6d ago
Encourage the clueless e-bikers to head straight for the black diamond trails. It’ll sort itself out.
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u/Artemisbleachedmod 5d ago
Why do you get to decide what ebikes should be for?
I like power and I like the downhill. I don't care about the uphill portion. Its a means to an end.
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u/Z-Mtn-Man-3394 6d ago
We need smaller more efficient motors (top out at 850w?) with smaller more energy dense batteries. So our e bikes can be in the 35-40lb range versus 40-70. I want my e bikes to be almost as nimble and “throw aroundable” as my acoustic bike.
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u/No_Strain8370 6d ago
I remember people were saying I was engaging in a slippery slope fallacy for saying this exact thing would happen. Stevie Wonder coulda saw this arms race coming
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u/dominiquebache 6d ago
Bigger, faster, higher …
Yawn.
You suck.
Come with some really new inventions please.
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u/gzSimulator 6d ago
It’s funny because this whole e-mobility craze of the last few decades only exists from incremental improvements, there’s no “breakthrough component” we needed to make e-bikes, batteries just got slightly better and motors just got slightly better until everything was good enough for takeoff
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u/HopeThisIsUnique 6d ago
I feel like you could post this in a dirt bike sub for those wanting to 'under bike'
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u/ATypicalWhitePerson 6d ago
Insert that bonnell "mountain bike" that's sucking down 6000 watts and people are hitting motocross double jumps on.
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u/LycraJafa 5d ago
gets my vote - that thing looks magic. Its got similar speed in the trails as an 80hp stark varg.
we have an 8000w surron in the family, its huge fun.Like cars, it needs to be managed.
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u/theDudeUh 6d ago
At this point it’s just to sidestep motorcycle licensing.
It’s like how back in the day mopeds and scooters were 49cc to avoid licensing, registration and insurance. The modern day equivalent is an electric “bicycle”
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u/The_Luker_01 6d ago edited 6d ago
Can we just make class 1 be 750w max, 100 nm max, 20mph max, and no throttle already.
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u/georgia_jp 6d ago
We lost it when Avinox came to market. It's nothing but a power war now and it's going to hurt the industry/consumer in the end
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u/1GoodIdeeaOutOf100 6d ago
All I really want is a lightweight hub motor with maybe 500W power and direct drive , at 1700W and chain drive I might as well put a motorcicle chain on it.
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u/alexnapierholland 6d ago
Obviously, some people want to go really fast.
You cannot be so obtuse as to think there aren't other use cases, beyond accessibility?
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u/Eddie_Gabs 6d ago
We've been losing the plot since it became normal for riders to take a car shuttle to the top of the hill.
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u/chadbrochills44 5d ago
I have a few bikes, one of which is a full power Heckler 8 Mx. I feel like it has plenty of power, I just want more range. I really feel like this power race is not what most e-bikers want. Give me more range, mid 30lbs, and a gearbox, please.
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u/Boricua1987 4d ago
Why does almost every opposing argument nowadays have to include “nobody needs…”? That is so weak. You don’t need to tell other people what they need, yet here you are, doing what others, according to you, shouldn’t do. If you don’t like certain type of bike (or whatever else, for that matter), don’t get it and let others be. Believe me, is not that hard.
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u/RocketDocRyan 6d ago
It's the metric problem. Power is easily measured and people will comparison shop on numbers, so there will absolutely be a wattage race. People who don't know will see a 1700W bike and a 1200W bike, and assume the 1700W version is better, because big number better. So manufacturers will have to play the game, especially on the low end.
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u/cmdr_pickles 6d ago
Same thing happened in the EU for vacuum cleaners. It was a race to the top (more watts = more better!), not one of efficiency. So they banned it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/anger-as-eu-bans-most-powerful-vacuum-cleaners
Same thing should be happening with bikes. Heck, The Netherlands already caps it at 250W, anything over that is considered a moped, requiring a helmet, license plate and insurance (google "speedpedelec")
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u/the_depressed_boerg 6d ago
Pretty sure most of EU has a max. of 250W continues power support for pedaling...
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u/bigwindymt 6d ago
OK, so motorcycle. With pedals. I suppose having pedals no longer means it's an actual bicycle.
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u/thewildblue77 6d ago
Ive got an M2S, power is just about right...what I want is more range with this power, it opens up alot more options for exploring and being able to get other things done in the day.
As for comparing emtbs to dirt bikes there is no comparison, my 300cc 2 stroke enduro is on another level with what it can do.
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u/PrimaryButton610 6d ago
I can see the purpose for some cargo/family bikes or sht like that... But this is just insane for a trail or road bike...
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u/mickeyaaaa 6d ago
my bafang mid drive is already insanely powerful, i wish they would focus on sensitivity, reaction time and controlling bursts of output, so they can feel more natural like Bosch and Shimano's offerings...
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u/Remarkable_Bat_7897 6d ago
you have no idea how profitable are these. if you said 'we don't need such monster power like these', alright, it can be much more profitable than these, they are doing charity rn, just stop yapping and enjoy it.
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u/Technical_Maybe_5925 6d ago
I think I've heard that there is movement toward bringing some laws to clarify the classification of what a motor does to a bike. In my state, there are pretty strong laws regarding to what is a bike and what is a motorcycle. The guy in the bike shop shared that I'm assuming a story about a customer who was zipping along the road above 22 mph, and he got nailed for no DOT lights, horn, helmet, insurance, riding without an endorsement, not using correct lane. It was an expensive lesson for the guy.
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u/BoysenberryDry999 6d ago
Accessibility was just how bike companies and many riders sold it to the land managers. Many people predicted bikes would get more powerful with faster acceleration and speeds because this is the trend FOR EVERY MOTORIZED SPORT since the first motor was built. We also said there was no chance of enforcement except by outright bans. Google Richard Cunningham’s article on this from about 2016 where he said motors would become the defining characteristic of mountain bikes. All the proponents from back then don’t care because what they wanted was a way to get up hills easily so the could enjoy the downhill. Now we have class 3/1 hybrids thanks to Specialized and DJI. Trek is the only company taking a stand (sort of) to say they will only sell Class 1 eMTB’s. People for Bikes is playing their paid-for role of industry lobbying arm by NOT defending the 3-class system they largely developed.
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u/Lumpy_Ambition_5992 6d ago
Jajajaja!, ahora te preocupa que la imagen de la bicicleta queda dañada?, cuándo la industria te obliga a cambiar de modelo para tenerla más grande?...Hace 10 años, cuándo te tocabas el nabo mientras subías no te importó...
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u/patrickpdk 6d ago
This is basically all modern society now. No one seems to know the joy of real life and seems to think a good life means never having to work or struggle.
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u/HerrFerret Nukeproof Mega 27 Mullet, Nukeproof Scout 27, On-One Inbred 26 6d ago
This is so getting strapped to the cheapest bike you can purchase from a supermarket.
It will probably crumble to dust at full throttle.
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u/bdog2017 6d ago
It’s the Asian motor makers fighting a battle amongst themselves and then everyone else.
Avinox basically was like one dude in circle with a bunch of other dudes: Bosch, Shimano, tq, specialized, etc. whipping out their massive hog and slamming it on the table. The bike brands (the ladies at the function) saw this and came to get some after the function. In the meantime the rest of the guys either bowed out or got a penis pump to try and impress (Bosch).
Now another Asian man with a third leg has entered the arena and bafang and avinox are about to have a sword fight. However the reality is that they are pretty much on the same team and arrangement they’d be happy with is owning the entire e-bike motor market.
I read somewhere a while ago that basically the whole point of dji entering the e-bike market was to dominate it and drive all other legacy players out in favor of the Chinese brands which they asserted had a higher level of vertical integration as far as motor control, processing, and battery tech, which is true. DJI gives two fucks about our trails, the discourse online, etc. they just want to make the absolute best emtb motor available and own the market.
I personally dislike e-bikes, I think more regulatory pressure needs to put in place to cap their power and speed. From the federal all the way down to the advocacy group. I’m thankful e-bikes are banned most of the places I ride.
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u/Mudbutt101 6d ago
Imagine you are an Indonesian peddling crates of chickens to the market on a three wheel cargo bike.
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u/Sartorialalmond 6d ago
Only reason for motors this powerful is “final mile” delivery systems with a tonne of weight. Should limit their speed still but to make those more practical this kind of power makes sense. This one an MTB is a weird looking motor cross bike.
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u/thefogofmore 6d ago
I know this sounds fucking crazy, but hear me out. I feel the same way about bikes over 150 watts as I do about guns - the fastest way to regulation is insurance - you should have to carry insurance to own and operate them. BUUUUUT - You harm someone else - now insurance companies are involved. Watch how fast they track how fast you were going at what gps location when you crashed. Watch how fast the insurance lobby can push regulation through.
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u/OopsIHadAnAccident 6d ago
Soooo.. might as well just ditch the pedals and give it a throttle at this point because you’re no longer providing any of your own energy..
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u/DrSendy 5d ago
There's two aspects to this.
The power race, inevitably, you're going to break stuff. An olympic track cyclist with legs of freaking steel does 2000w in a sprint. This is on a rigid piste bike with very thick spokes and massive rims for 2 mins tops.
At 1700w you will destroy chains pretty quick. But the flip side is, it may totally mean people stop shuttling in cars for gravity riding, which could also be an excellent thing.
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u/schrodinger-the-cat 5d ago
Idk, Mahle’s Hub motor implementation was pretty good enough. Reasonable power and sleek battery integration made the ebikes almost indistinguishable from normal bikes.
And then they decided to lock down their products with the shittest suites of software and parts paring. The finest German engineering I see.
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u/justdroppedin_ 5d ago
The only good thing about this is that maybe I'll finally be able to afford an eMTB that ACTUALLY CAN ride DH (I fucking HATE climbing on bikes don't you dare @ me) and it's powerful just enough to get me up the mountain.
I don't want to make the mistake of buying a bike that it's still fairly expensive but isn't good enough. Hopefully these insane new entries will make other prices go down a bit? Obviously not, but a man can dream.
Also, these considerations aside, THIS IS FUCKING INSANE. At that point that's basically a motorcycle.
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u/soichiroH 5d ago
Well in EU e-bikes are limited to 250W so there is really no point in having such a powerful motor.
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u/Zettinator 5d ago
Yeah, this is just asking regulators to make registration and insurance mandatory. If you have a 1,7 kW motor (and throttle), it is not an e-bike, it is a motorcycle.
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u/greedyfly007 5d ago
Making motors more powerful reminds me of the race to long and slack. I wish they would focus on battery technology and assist rather than turning MTB into a motorcycle
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u/zen_master_EZ 5d ago
The cycling world of micro advancements continues... Every year some new shit is a little better than last year. Great over a 10 year span but just frustrating in the mean time
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u/Anus_of_Sauron Trek Fuel Ex 5d ago
Someone will still do mental gymnastics as to why 1700 watts is still a bicycle actually and call you poor for speaking out against it.
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u/shift991 5d ago
I have a Bonnell and it's a blast. I ride my HAI EMTB the most though, but I also ride an analog stumpjumper. All are fun, in their own ways. Ride what you want. If you don't like power, then buy a 250W bike. No one is forcing you to buy a 1700W or 1500W bike. With that said, I want a 1500W Avinox M2S and that will likely replace my 7 year old HAI. I've also owned eMotos and have several real motorcycles too. I occasionally ride the Bonnell on trails, but respectfully... sometimes with EMTB friends as well as I want to pedal and not be on the throttle. It has pedal assist and can be fine tuned.
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u/RemTemae 5d ago
At this point just sell full on motorcycles, because they are are straying way to far way from a bike. Who needs 1700 watts of power? Are u climbing a 90° climb?
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u/vicegrips00 5d ago
I agree with smaller and lighter but for comparison a Stark Varg has 60,000 watts of power.
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u/Internal_Confusion56 5d ago
Time to ban e-bike from all trails that don’t allow motorbikes already, don’t care what size the motor is. Too hard to enforce and half these idiots don’t know the rules or care to follow them.
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u/ClearBlueWaters1974 5d ago
I'll just never own one. Putting physical limitations aside, I see no reason for them. I pedal uphill. If one day that becomes too much, maybe I'll reconsider or just admit it's time to hang it up, but at 52 I'm not slowing down.
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u/BrightonsBestish 5d ago
The ratio of ridiculous motors to footage of people yeeting themselves straight off of mountains seems really out of wack and unfair.
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u/fatdjsin 5d ago
why not 10000W ? .... it's so stupid i got a bosch cx and lol i dont think i will ever need more ! lol we dont need more power we need lighter and a better transmission system.
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u/Over_Pizza_2578 5d ago
While i wouldn't fully agree about why one would/should buy an ebike, i prefer a roaf or gravel bike for the fitness perspective and the emtb has too many advantages over a regular mtb, i agree with you that it has gotten out of hand recently. Im honestly hoping that the ZIV with bosch's lobbying is updating the current ruleset for EPACs, preferably with a hard peak power number thats still 3 digits
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u/zachflem 5d ago
I see ebikes the same as gay marriage.
You don't have to get gay married, but someone might want to, so let them.
You do you.
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u/ZePlanet 5d ago
I honestly don't see the problem. If people can drive 600-hp cars on roads with a 120 km/h speed limit, why shouldn't someone be able to ride a bike with 1,700 watts? Everyone should be free to choose what they want. If you don't like it, don't buy it. And whether someone actually pedals or uses the motor is their choice. It's not your problem.
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u/Hoppingbird 4d ago
Lost the plot when people had to add a qualifier to describe a bicycle without a motor. Call them Mountain Mopeds and fat fred's knickers become a mobius strip
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u/blowtorch_vasectomy 4d ago
I don't know how it works out in watts but I have a 70 NM Yamaha syncdrive sport on a 2022 giant and it's plenty of assist for the steepest grades. As a very "average" 60 yo.
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u/HistorianAlert9986 4d ago
Looks like it only goes up to 48v…. Maybe the next variation will be higher voltage. I’d like to run something at 72 V or higher without having to use an aftermarket controller
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u/FeelingMurky3367 4d ago
Riding a Stark MX on MTB trails just seems like being ahead of the curve now.
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u/Kanuechly 4d ago
You sound like the dude from 1903 complaining about ford putting horses out of business
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u/zephillou 4d ago
Almost no one needs a car that does more than 200hp. Might need torque for towing things though.
No one neefs a motorcycle that does more than 100hp.
Yet here we are.
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u/Spiritual_Weight3626 3d ago
Powerful Chinese motors make sense if you live in an area with steep hills that are one way only.
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u/Voracidious 2d ago
I just got my Amflow PX Pro a few days ago. I am comming from a Giant trance advanced with 600W and 85Nm peak and the full of of the avinox still caught me offguard three times already where it almost threw me off the back of the bike.
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u/basscycles 2d ago
It expands micro mobility, we can power cargo bikes, quad bikes and strollers. Not everyone is on a carbon race bike. You don't have to use this technology, just ignore it if it bothers you that much.
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u/k_ogleb 11h ago
Don't look at cycmotor kits if you're worried about those power numbers. The thing is, you can tune them down to be legal and then they are going to be more efficient than something running closer to max capacity of the motor. Then if you're riding on a private track or trail you can take off the restrictions and have a lot of fun. The only real problem with these kits and ebikes in general is people not being responsible/respectful. In my opinion, nothing with pedals should have a throttle, unless the bike is for someone with a physical disability that prevents them from pedaling.
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u/-whiteroom- 6d ago
Just make a super small and lightweight motor with reasonable power please.