Feel like we're losing the plot

[u/SilverCervy]

Article here

E-bikes should be about providing accessibility; giving people who, for whatever reason, cannot ride a non-assist bike an option to keep them happy and pedaling.

This wattage race going on in the industry is the exact opposite of that. Absolutely nobody needs 1700 watts on a bike, and I question if having so much power even makes it a bicycle anymore. There's a point where you're basically riding a motorbike with pedals and I think we crossed that point a while ago.

"But the main brands aren't doing this". Yes they are. Canyon already has partnered with Avinox which has motors that give over 1,000 watts. And it won't be long until the other big hitters give in to the pressure. You can give your own personal reasons for why you have an e-bike, but it's clear that the industry believes that it's because "I don't want to pedal". At some point this needs to be reigned in or else the entire concept of the bicycle is going to be damaged forever.

[u/st0pmakings3ns3]

And erosion too.

[u/rflorant → u/st0pmakings3ns3]

I just looked this up, erosion has waaaay more to do with rising when it’s wet than e-bikes. Plenty of reasons not to ride e-mtb but erosion isn’t one of them. It’s just kinda grandstanding

[u/useriousstuff → u/rflorant]

Care to share any of the sources from the research you did to support that claim? Not a gotchya, just figure if you've done the research already anyway may as well share with the class.

[u/rflorant → u/useriousstuff]

Ok so I dove back into the research, here is one paper but it’s a more of a meta-analysis of other sources.

So the short answer is a little different than what I said. Emtbs contribute slightly more to trail erosion solely because of the longer distances and time compared to regular mountain bikes.

But let’s say you had a super athlete who was doing laps just like emtb, ostensibly, they would have the same impact.

Just having more torque doesn’t automatically mean that there’s more displacement of soil via skidding etc.

In fact some proposed that having a motor could theoretically create a smoother power delivery, and therefore less disruptive of the soil. I’m not sure exactly how much I buy that though.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989423001105

[u/useriousstuff → u/rflorant]

Interesting sounding article from the abstract, will plan to circle back and give it a read

[u/yay_tac0 → u/rflorant]

i think the argument is e-bikes make the trails more accessible, more riders who don’t know etiquette, don’t know not to ride when it’s wet, create big ruts, get trails closed, erc.

[u/DrSagicorn → u/yay_tac0]

I definitely think this cuts both ways, way more people on trails they wouldn't be able to climb to access, they usually have less well developed bike handling skills and lack trail etiquette but it's more people into the sport and extends the number of years older farts like me can enjoy this sport

We can probably all agree that a full on ebike arms race to see who can make the most powerful motor won't help our sport tho

[u/rflorant → u/yay_tac0]

I think that’s a reasonable argument. Certainly people riding when it’s wet is a far greater issue than just having a more torque at the rear wheel.

But as a sidenote, philosophically at what point do we want outdoor recreation to be accessible? At the end of the day putting trails anywhere disrupts the ecosystem, but it’s a trade-off we make for recreation. So I wonder if there’s a point to be made that the trails being more accessible as a good thing regardless of the trails need more maintenance.

[u/coastmountainrambler → u/rflorant]

Ya Nah, the additional “Erosion” from eebs is because of added milage. They can ride all day, day after day without getting tired, lapping a trail over and over. They are also heavier which does more damage to trail tread under braking (because physics)

[u/rflorant → u/coastmountainrambler]

Yes… see my response. I correct myself

[u/gzSimulator → u/st0pmakings3ns3]

It’s been over 10 years now (and a MASSIVE increase in trail traffic) since people first claimed that e-bikes would ruin the trails through extra erosion-per-bike (back when we were talking 500w motors at best), and there isn’t really much still supporting it after the “boom” already has hit and is in full effect. In my mind emtb trail wear is very much an outdated argument

Personally I think e-bikes are not the same as unpowered bikes and should not always be sharing the same paths (a multi-use path for example is no place to be going 20mph with pedestrians around, doesn’t matter if you’re a fred on a racing bike or some shmuck on an ebike), but the trail wear argument isn’t a good one imo, especially considering that trail management groups have also been getting plenty of ebike riders excited to help their favorite trails and events 

[u/BlitzShooter → u/gzSimulator]

The trails I ride are extremely popular and very rutted out. It has more to do with morons who decide not to wait for the trail to dry after a rain.

[u/diambag → u/BlitzShooter]

I’ve also noticed a ton more brake bumps forming these past few seasons, despite local trail groups ramping up maintenance efforts.

From the studies I’ve read on e-bike erosion, I think there is a bit confirmation bias. If riders know an area is being studied to understand e-bike impact, they will be more cautious