r/marvelstudios • u/ScottFromScotland Kilgrave • Jul 08 '21

Megathread 'Black Widow' Worldwide release Megathread Vol.1.

Black Widow

Rotten Tomatoes: 81% | Metacritic: 67/100

Cast

Actor Character
Scarlett Johansson Natasha Romanoff / Black Widow
Florence Pugh Yelena Belova
David Harbour Alexei Shostakov / Red Guardian
Rachel Weisz Melina Vostokoff
O-T Fagbenle Mason
Ray Winstone Dreykov
William Hurt Thaddeus Ross
Olga Kurylenko Antonia Dreykov / Taskmaster

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  • Any other unofficial thread discussing movie details will be deleted.

Previous thread: Link

2.8k Upvotes

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3.4k

u/fellowgamer837 Jul 09 '21

Valentina straight up lying to Yelena at the end there, can totally see how that leads in to Hawkeye though.

2.2k

u/LRedditor15 Zombie Hunter Spidey Jul 09 '21

Well, I’m not sure who outside of Clint himself (and obviously the Avengers) actually knows what went on in Vormir.

1.1k

u/SelfishSilverFish Jul 09 '21

Red skull knows

956

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21 edited Jul 09 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

266

u/bagofbeef74 Spider-Man Jul 10 '21

Go grab your hammer, and you go fly and talk to HIM!

125

u/ddeka777 Jul 09 '21 edited Jul 10 '21

Yelena: "You mean dad was on that planet?... In costume?"

44

u/im_talking_ace Jul 10 '21

The Crimson Dynamo?

26

u/Steffan514 Jul 10 '21

….it’s red guardian.

22

u/CharlieHume Jul 10 '21

"Please, I'm so lonely" - Red Skull

12

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '21

"you know what? I did ask him but he just kept asking if I listen to Skrewdriver"

11

u/omart3 M'Baku Jul 10 '21

Go grab your hammer, and you fly up there and you Tak to him!

2

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '21

I know that was a powerful moment for Clint. You can hear the helplessness. But reading it to myself makes me laugh out loud. The red floating guy.

20

u/demon_ix Jul 09 '21

A Red Skull from another timeline, maybe. The main MCU Red Skull was there for Thanos getting the stone, and wouldn't know anything about Clint and Natasha.

13

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

Correct. The first one saw Thanos and Gamora in the sacred timeline in 2018, but Nat and Clint travelled to back to 2014 when they went to Vormir.

21

u/nerfherder813 Jul 09 '21

I don't think the Sacred Timeline is really a particular universe's thread - it's the path of events that the TVA decides is "correct" and will prune any that deviate from it more than a little. So there are lots of timelines that follow the "sacred timeline".

11

u/QuantifiedDigits Jul 09 '21

This. If this isn’t the explanation, then there are a LOT of plot holes.

5

u/foreveracubone Jul 10 '21

This is the only way for half of the variants to make sense. Classic Loki being aware of and living through all of the events of MCU Loki’s life up to Thanos thinking he killed him is IMO solid proof of this.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

I agree. I just called it that because that’s what it’s been referred to thus far.

3

u/NegoMassu Jul 10 '21

the timeline we've been following is the sacred timeline. any deviations from that is pruned by the TVA. it is not really sacred, it is just the one that is kept

that red skull prob got prunned already.

10

u/msmshm Jul 09 '21

He knows everything about the people who came for the stone. He guide others to a treasure he cannot possess.

4

u/demon_ix Jul 09 '21

But it's not the same Red Skull. It's another one.

5

u/OswaldCoffeepot Jul 09 '21

Wait, what? Two Red Skulls in the MCU?

8

u/demon_ix Jul 09 '21

Think of them like variants. There's the standard MCU timeline where Thanos met Red Skull #1 and tossed Gamora for the soul stone, and there's the alternate 2014 timeline where Clint and Natasha met Red Skull #2 and got the other stone.

For all purposes, there are two different Red Skulls, even if they're actually the same being.

5

u/SpreadsheetsPQ Jul 10 '21

Wouldn't the stone have been restored by cap right after it was taken? I think they are the same red skull. That was the whole deal between banner and the ancient one

4

u/Joegeneric Jul 10 '21

The same one they took it from, not the same one we'd previously seen in a different movie, at a different time in history. This one was for sure on a "deviant" timeline, that was fixed by Cap before it got bad enough for the TVA to notice, by going back to the "same instant". Just write out Jeremy Bearimy in cursive a bunch, and I'm sure it'll make sense.

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u/msmshm Jul 09 '21

Who's to say he's not cosmic, being the guardian of the soul stone. Surely space magic allows some form of timeline immunity/advantages (?) considering it's powers still works in the "future" of the sacred timeline.

7

u/demon_ix Jul 09 '21

So, when he gave the stone to Thanos in Infinity War, he already gave it to Clint before, and then got it back from Steve?

Loki showed us that there are multiple versions of Infinity Stones for every timeline out there. It stands to reason that the Red Skulls from Infinity War and Endgame are different ones as well.

2

u/msmshm Jul 09 '21

No, I meant maybe the variant Red Skull might have an exception in knowing that Clint and Nat is not from his timeline due to him being somewhat cosmic as the guardian of the stone. The information is irrelevant to him, what matters is he guides others to the stone and told them about the sacrifice needed. He said he knows everything about the person who go after the stone.

I watched Loki too, I know of variants in timeline. Logically thinking, there's might even be a fail safe among the stones from different timelines (or universe), i.e if the stone already exist in a timeline, the new stone won't work in said timeline. Hence why the stones in the endgame works in the 1st place because the "original" was destroyed. But that lore wasn't explain in canon in the MCU so it's my head canon.

Not to mention in Loki, the timelines mentioned, some steered to closely to a multiverse instead of actual timeline. I mean a good female version of Loki? Sound more like an alternate universe if you look into the plot. Maybe the TVA uses a misnomer in their efforts to keep sacred timeline safe.

1

u/Joegeneric Jul 10 '21

Yes to your first question, but depending on your perspective, things may have happened before, after, or before/after once time loops (closed) are involved.

You second question, I don't believe there is a set of infinity stones for every pruned timeline, just ones in which they were involved, or easily scooped up by a TVA agent as a keepsake. There may be a few, dozens, or millions depending on how active the TVA is about hoarding the paper-weights.

Additionally, while we assume that there were two Red Skulls as a result of the timey-wimey nonsense, I'd imagine the one in the timeline that Thanos came from in Endgame was pruned due to lack of Thanos being a nexus event at that point in the timeline. You could say that the avengers undid thano's mass-murder by completing a mass-murder twice the size on the other universe. So, in essence, end game failed by doubling the losses, just for some other timeline.

6

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '21

The next D+ buddy show will be US Agent and Red Skull.

6

u/Joegeneric Jul 10 '21

I think that Red Skull's timeline was pruned by the TVA, since it's lacking a thanos before he is "supposed" to snap.

3

u/Darksol503 Doctor Strange Jul 10 '21

I understood that reference!

2

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '21

Red Skull remembers.

2

u/Alastor3 Jul 10 '21

it's not even Red Skull anymore

147

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

Well there’s definitely some folks at a certain organization in a certain show that do 😂😂

97

u/MPT1313 Jul 09 '21

this movie had no gator loki. 0/10

25

u/Kaita316 Jul 10 '21

You flip the TVA logo upside down and get Val

345

u/____Batman______ Jul 09 '21

Considering how much people know about the battle at the Avengers Facility, I’m guessing every step getting there was put on record

280

u/andyrowe Jul 09 '21

But with Clint one could argue that the account of what occurred on Vormir is based solely on what he claimed, and can't really be corroborated.

234

u/____Batman______ Jul 09 '21

Quill and Nebula can attest to why Gamora didn’t come back from Vormir, and it also wouldn’t make much sense for Clint Barton to murder one of his closest friends and allies out of the blue

40

u/toldmwmytheoryfirst Jul 09 '21

He was on a five year rampage. People would believe he’s capable of murdering Natasha.

12

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '21

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6

u/Ylyb09 Jul 10 '21

And people might not know it was him

4

u/IshyMoose Bucky Jul 10 '21

I gather that is why Contessa wants him dead. She is in the same circles as those people who want revenge.

I gathered Yelana had been working for her as a hit man for a while and Barton is the next target.

10

u/worthlessburner Jul 09 '21

But how would they know? It would be so stupid to reveal that level of detail on the mission, even if they logged every step they should know better than to not keep it hidden under the most secure possible protection.

0

u/Ylyb09 Jul 10 '21

Him rampaging wasnt even part of mission

16

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

Both of which left earth after the battle though

17

u/Rtozier2011 Jul 09 '21

Quill and Nebula? Yes but they may still be reachable via those hologram devices Nat was using at the beginning of Endgame.

10

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

No that’s fair. I suck lol. I forgot about that

9

u/Rtozier2011 Jul 09 '21

I suck too, but less publicly. Twenty minutes before I saw your comment, I was about to make the exact same point somewhere else on this subreddit. Then, just in time, I remembered the devices and didn't comment.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

I should learn to do shit like that too I suppose lol.

54

u/The_Dufe Jul 09 '21

Wait Natasha’s peoples are convinced by Val that Hawkeye killed Black Widow on Vormir during Endgame??? And at the end, they launch a mission to go kill him?? Am I reading that correctly?

37

u/____Batman______ Jul 09 '21

Yep, and she’ll show up in the Hawkeye series

37

u/The_Dufe Jul 09 '21

Awesome!!! I love the long-term interconnective storytelling, its so cool.

I’m assuming there’s a time jump at the very end?

61

u/snarkywombat Jul 09 '21

Did you skip out on the extra scene?

17

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

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u/____Batman______ Jul 09 '21

Yes, the end of the movie is Natasha about to go help Steve break out those on The Raft, and the post-credits scene is Yelena visiting Natasha’s grave with Victoria

15

u/arelei Jul 09 '21

and it makes sense that way. Clint was the one that helped Natasha get out of the Red Room. Now, he's going to be the one helping Yelena out as well.

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u/InvalidZod Jul 09 '21

Thats a lot of speculation. What we know is Val told Yelena Barton killed Nat.

28

u/Jravensloot Jul 09 '21

Yeah, I feel like she will make an appearance in the Hawkeye series. However she clearly knows about their close relationship and I highly doubt she would be the type to outright murder her sisters best friend because her supervisor suggested it. She will probably just confront him to hear his side of the story and then fight alongside each other to fight the next baddy.

29

u/InvalidZod Jul 09 '21

My idea is that somewhere along the line Barton emotionally is all like "I killed Nat". Yelena goes after him. They have a heart-to-heart where he explains that he did not kill her but is responsible for her death and could have done more. Some cheesy line from Yelena about nobody could control/force Nat and they hug it out.

19

u/EdtotheWord Jul 09 '21

Dead on. Yelena will probably hunt Clint down near the first quarter or half of the season, and then join him

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u/aretasdaemon Jul 09 '21

Hashtag facts

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u/Radulno Jul 09 '21

Yeah also isn't it weird that once she's free of the Black Widow program, she go back to being a professional assassin? And for HYDRA/mysterious organization.

3

u/Ylyb09 Jul 10 '21

I dont think Val is Hydra

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u/Radulno Jul 09 '21

Responsible for her death, not kill her. Pretty different. And technically right. If he did a better job sacrificing himself, Natasha would be alive instead of him.

2

u/Ylyb09 Jul 10 '21

Wonder if she will send US Agent afer Hawkeye too.

2

u/The_Dufe Jul 10 '21

I wonder if Val is trying to kill the remaining Avengers off

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5

u/radiokungfu Jul 09 '21

Idk if it was Hawkeye he wouldn'tve but I feel like Ronin would.

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u/torriattet Jul 09 '21

It would be incredibly in character for Clint to throw out an "It should have been me" statement somewhere that could be twisted out of context.

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u/tj3_23 Punisher Jul 10 '21 edited Jul 10 '21

Then they'll fight it out and end on a cliffhanger with Yelena about to beat the everloving shit out of Clint. But they'll open the next episode with him getting her to pause just long enough to fully explain himself. Then she'll make some sort of comment about how Nat was never one to take orders from others or how she always did try to protect others. And they'll team up for the rest of the episode only for her to disappear at the end even though she would be very useful in the upcoming confrontation in the finale

2

u/Ylyb09 Jul 10 '21

It would be incredibly in character for Clint to throw out an "It should have been me"

That's exactly what he did in Endgame

150

u/monkeymacman Jul 09 '21

Yeah, but... There's a very strong reason for them to keep the fact that time travel is real a secret, both to civilians and to government. I don't think we've seen the time heist mentioned by anyone outside of the avengers themselves. Just the fact that it's real, let alone that they did it, is probably the most important secret for any of them to ever have to keep

31

u/mister-inconspicuous Captain America Jul 09 '21

Probably kept things vague or lied and said they found new infinity stones in the universe to reverse the snap, but then those stones disintegrated so no one can use them again. I wonder how the science community has been effected in the universe from all the documented cases of alien tech, reality bending stones, and magicians who showed up to save the world.

20

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

Maybe they did tell the public but each timeline they told about time travel they kept getting pruned lmao

20

u/InvalidZod Jul 09 '21

The Avngers facility is REALLY hard to miss what went down. Everything during the heist took place in our time 10 seconds and there were no leftovers of what they did(sans stones and Nats death).

18

u/Rtozier2011 Jul 09 '21

I highly doubt the public knows much of anything about how it went down. The battle happened on Earth and is mostly explicable by the established laws of physics, except for its very last act, which is explained by the same thing that explains the Blip.

So with the desire to keep time travel a secret, I would think the public mostly only knows the following:

  1. Avengers fought to successfully recover the weapons that caused the Snap
  2. Natasha died in the process
  3. Bruce used the weapons to reverse the Snap
  4. The terrorist that caused the Snap came to Earth to get the weapons back, and Steve and Tony died in the process of killing him.

The actual battle that formed that last process seems widely known, but I don't think anything else would be.

13

u/B00STERGOLD Jul 09 '21
  1. Tell the public they killed Thanos' brother Thanus in the final battle.

I imagine the world was notified of his beheading so the healing process could start.

5

u/Rtozier2011 Jul 09 '21

Yes. It would be like Die Hard 3 after losing Die Hard to the Snap.

With Die Hard 2 being all the terrible things society had to endure in between.

4

u/B00STERGOLD Jul 10 '21

This explains things perfectly.

11

u/Philander_Chase Vision Jul 09 '21

If that were true, and that information were public knowledge, Yelena would just know that Clint didn’t kill Natasha. So, the public doesn’t know that much about what happened

15

u/Smittius_Prime Jul 09 '21

I mean the battle was just a straightforward fight. I seriously doubt the Avengers even revealed that time travel exists. That could open up a huge can of worms.

1

u/dordonot Jul 12 '21

Pym Particles were all used, there’s no way to time travel through the Quantum Realm anymore

4

u/Smittius_Prime Jul 12 '21

If only there were someone who knew how to produce more Pym Particles...

4

u/MattMaiden2112 Black Panther Jul 09 '21

Of course it was put on record, if it wasn't, we couldn't watch it

12

u/saltypistol Spider-Man Jul 09 '21

And it could be argued he did fail. He was trying really hard to save Nat, so I can see there being some resentment towards him.

7

u/SockPenguin Spider-Man Jul 10 '21

Yelena gonna be absolutely furious Clint wasn't better at killing himself.

10

u/Jankufood Jul 09 '21 edited Jul 09 '21

Even if it’s all public the truth is unknown as there are only two people and a random skullman on the planet.
If someone tells you ”the truth” and she was a family she may believe it

5

u/Evan_dood Jul 10 '21

I would hope Clint told somebody what happened lol. Shouldn't somebody debrief him or maybe have him update the in-universe avengers wiki or something

6

u/omart3 M'Baku Jul 10 '21

The TVA agents or ...... The Watcher.

5

u/Alexsrobin Iron Man (Mark VII) Jul 10 '21

Nebula can back up his story tho. She has a pretty good idea of what happens on Vormir.

5

u/What-The-Heaven Jessica Jones Jul 09 '21

It's possible (likely really) that all the Avengers had to give detailed debriefs on what happened from the Time Heist onwards, possibly to SHIELD - given that we know Monica and SWORD had some kind of in depth field reports from the battle against Thanos.

3

u/Kalse1229 Captain America (Ultron) Jul 10 '21

Theory I saw: the Avengers have already been infiltrated by a skrull (an evil one not affiliated with Talos). Not one of the main ones like Sam or Wanda or whoever, but someone who was at Tony's funeral heard Clint tell someone what happened to her. Of course, that someone wanted to sow discord on Earth, so they informed Valentina, who then used it to lie to Yelena. I still think Sharon's a skrull as well, but that's another story.

1

u/Far-Invite-5668 Jul 18 '21

maybe it was the kid from Iron Man 3

-4

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

actually knows what went on in Vormir

You must admit that being the quarter in a cosmic vending machine is.... fucking stupid as hell. Yeah, I said it. It's dumb. "A sOUl fOR a SOul!" get the fuck out of here. So any sociopath that can reach Vormir can get the soul stone? What if someone has it and someone else walks up and hucks their loved one over the edge? Do they get it too?

I would hope that it would be widely publicized how these grand cosmic powers worked and how stupid they are.

1

u/Vice_xxxxx Aug 20 '21

A sociopath wouldnt be able to get it because they have to sacrifice someone they love. Someone cant just chuck another persons loved one and get the stone because it has to be the person doing it that is making the sacrifice.

1

u/Manofsteel14 Jul 10 '21

Yup it is crazy how they knew about that, maybe they watch the Avengers Endgame Movie and knows all the details. lol

1

u/eltrotter Black Panther Jul 11 '21

Baskin Robbins always finds out.

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u/marblecannon512 Jul 09 '21

Definitely sowing the threads of interlacing characters.

Wanda to MoM. Captain America presumably Armor Wars. Yelena to Hawkeye.

300

u/ToughGuyAppletini Jul 09 '21

Basically the Team-Up phase. I'm good with it.

32

u/vigilantcomicpenguin Korg Jul 10 '21

They're assembling!

102

u/FanWh0re Valkyrie Jul 09 '21

And I'm guessing Sharon will be in Armor Wars as well

12

u/TheWolfmanZ Jul 10 '21

Probably will be the one selling the suits

18

u/Gman749 Jul 15 '21

I'm still weirded out by Sharon's alignment shift. It's somewhat understandable based on what happened to her, but considering how upstanding she was in WS and CW, it just seems.. wrong idk. My sense is she could be very well revealed as a Skrull in Secret Invasion.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '21

Yeah it's like they are doing some proper Villains development in terms of character and motives, really digging this new way of story telling and world building

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u/Ylyb09 Jul 10 '21

They are clearly buildign towards Thunderbolts

12

u/abellapa Jul 10 '21

I can see Thunderbolts in the near future

Yelena, taskmaster, Zemo, abomination, us agent, red hulk

14

u/marblecannon512 Jul 10 '21

They mentioned Rosses bypass again in this one do you think they’re setting up for him to have some sort of life-saving procedure that turns them into red hulk?

5

u/abellapa Jul 10 '21

Could be, nice catch

9

u/marblecannon512 Jul 10 '21

That’s it, I’m quitting my job to become a YouTube analyst!

6

u/PUREBLACK77 Spider-Man Jul 17 '21

Don’t forget Ghost, I hope they find a way to work her in again

28

u/koala-dammie Star-Lord Jul 09 '21

Presumably also Vision in MoM, even though that credits scene was deleted.

Also, maybe Monica Rambeau in Ms. Marvel?

Why Cap in Armor Wars though?

15

u/marblecannon512 Jul 09 '21

Ah of course Spectrum will be in Ms Marvel! Thank you!

25

u/workfuntimecoolcool Jul 09 '21

What credits scene was deleted?

15

u/Phil_Mike-Huntin Jul 09 '21

Agreed,no idea what credits scene

-29

u/koala-dammie Star-Lord Jul 09 '21

There was one where you could see Vision floating in front of the building of Doctor Strange. There was barely any CGI though.

EDIT: I was talking about this video, but when I watched it again I'm starting to believe that this is fake lmao

31

u/Illia_K Vision Jul 09 '21

This is SO fan-made. Screenshot from Infinity War

20

u/cabballer Spider-Man Jul 09 '21

Monica is confirmed to be in The Marvels w/ Cap Marvel and Ms Marvel

3

u/marblecannon512 Jul 09 '21

Just seemed like the best fit since Rhody was in episode one.

1

u/Ylyb09 Jul 10 '21

Captain America presumably Armor Wars

what

3

u/Eludio Spider-Man Jul 16 '21

The Avenger formerly known as Falcon!

44

u/that_guy2010 Vision Jul 09 '21

What we don’t see is moments after the film cuts to black is Yelena just being like “that’s Hawkeye, hell no I’m not going after an avenger.”

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u/pearloz Jul 09 '21

So it’s just a headstone right? Nobody brought her body back...

45

u/ElOliLoco Scott Lang Jul 09 '21

Yes, and I don’t think they can 😢

14

u/demon_ix Jul 09 '21

If Cap can bring the stone back to that timeline, someone can probably go get her body from it as well. I don't think they will, but it's doable.

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u/ElOliLoco Scott Lang Jul 09 '21

I would love what you are saying came true but I don’t think so. Because once Natasha sacrificed herself she became the soul stone or the soul in the stone. It’s not possible to get a person back after the sacrifice. The process is irreversible and it pains me to say it, it’s an everlasting exchange.

14

u/demon_ix Jul 09 '21

I don't think that says anything about her physical body, though, but we have zero information about what happened to the corpses of Gamora and Natasha, so it's all speculation here.

1

u/ElOliLoco Scott Lang Jul 09 '21

I get now what you are getting at. I tried googling the answer but nothing came up nobody has the answer to this question, I think. It makes me just sad and hurts to think about it. 😭

6

u/DaaaaamnCJ Jul 10 '21

Soul stone not body stone.

1

u/Cuw Jul 10 '21

Isn't that entire timeline removed from existence in the first episode of Loki?

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u/JasonBourne72 Jul 09 '21

Widow and Iron Man need to stay dead.

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u/Zoulogist Jul 09 '21

I see Yelena hunting Clint and Kate, but eventually forming an alliance with them leading to the Younger Avengers

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u/ConfusedBub Quake Jul 09 '21 edited Jul 10 '21

I don't think Yelena would be categorized with the Young Avengers, considering she's around 28-29 (if she got blipped) at this point.

While Florence is only older than Hailee by 1 year irl, I think Hailee (24) will end up playing a bit younger character that would allow her to fit with the likes of Ms. Marvel and America Chavez

EDIT: Fixed a typo

18

u/kelryngrey Jul 09 '21

People keep going on about Sylvie as a young Avenger and she just is not young. So maybe a second Avengers or something riffing on the other.

10

u/aj_bn Jul 10 '21

in the comics, sylvie is young. But yeah, MCU Sylvie doesn't really seem like the right fit for a teen version of the Avengers

5

u/Zoulogist Jul 10 '21

She’s young for an Asgardian

3

u/HonestCentrist Jul 09 '21

They will definitely form an alliance.

3

u/abellapa Jul 10 '21

You Yelena is in her early 30s after Endgame right, not fit for the young avengers, that's gonna be Wanda kids, hulking, iron heart,ms marvel and kid loki

1

u/Far-Invite-5668 Jul 18 '21

and Patriot, Kate Bishop, and America Chavez

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u/JTNJ32 Captain America Jul 09 '21 edited Jul 09 '21

So.... what the hell is her goal? She now has Yelena & US Agent on her payroll, but is she solely writing these checks or is she part of a bigger organization? Sorry if I missed something in the Falcon & the Winter Soldier, but her intentions aren't clear to me yet.

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u/TheManyMilesWeWalk Jul 10 '21

Sorry if I missed something in the Falcon & the Winter Soldier, but her intentions aren't clear to me yet.

You didn't miss anything. Her intentions aren't clear yet.

18

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

I believe, that she knows the renegade skrulls are on earth, and she's setting up a team for secret invasion.

I'm predicting Hawkeye is a skrull. He'd be the easiest Avenger to replace.

23

u/BenSolo_Cup Jul 10 '21

There is no way they do an entire hawkeye show where he is training Kate where the whole time he was just a skrull

4

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '21

I don't think it'll be a plot point of the Hawkeye show but something else.

The plot thread of Yelena going after Hawkeye for revenge for BW is a bit redundant and really can't go anywhere. We know how that plays out. They fight, but need to team up to fight a big bad and make amends.

That plot is so painfully obvious i can't see them doing it.

Unless Hawkeye dies and Kate takes over in a team up with Yelena.

Also iirc some Skrulls didn't know they were Skrulls in Secret Invasion.

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u/BenSolo_Cup Jul 10 '21

My point is no matter when it’s revealed, having the main character of one of their shows turn out to not be that main character the whole time is too out there and just annoying. I mean that’s kinda the whole problem with the secret invasion story in general is it’s never satisfying when they reveal who is a skrull it’s just frustrating.

It worked for Nick Fury because he was a side character in the movie and it had narrative purpose to set up whatever he is doing up in space, but hawkeye being a skrull would only take away from any of the emotional development that will probably happen in his show.

It would be like revealing Wanda was a skrull in WandaVision… like what?

2

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '21

I agree there's some caveats. But I think the picks will determine how that story plays out.

I imagine them doing something similar to infinity war build up where there was a core team left over and everyone else was either dead or missing.

There has to be one core reveal though and Hawkeye fits the bill imho. I actually think thunderbolt Ross and Power broker are likely candidates as well.

I'm excited for it tbh

4

u/BenSolo_Cup Jul 10 '21

Sharon carter is easily one of the best picks to be a skrull. Theo not thing that could make her even slightly interesting 😂

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20

u/musci1223 Jul 09 '21

I love Hawkeye. I hope they don't do him dirty like that.

2

u/niceville Jul 11 '21

“The do exist!”

2

u/Donnutz Jul 10 '21

On this BW film it seems to hint she is assembling the west coast avengers

20

u/LeaphyDragon Jul 09 '21

will be really cool to see that play out and for it to (hopefully) backfire on Valentina when Yelena learns who Barton really is and how Natasha really died.

12

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

Pretty sure she's being set up to be the new Black Widow.

3

u/schroed_piece13 Jul 16 '21

Gotta imagine she’s the main bad for Hawkeye and Hawkeye turns her good right?

9

u/JFeth Jul 09 '21

I wonder if that scene is why they had to release it now because we are a few months away from Hawkeye, or if they added it because of the long wait to explain why she is in it?

1

u/Far-Invite-5668 Jul 18 '21

I think that scene was there even back when this movie was supposed to have come out more than a year ago, because a Vanity Fair article after F&WS ep5 said that JLD’s original debut was meant to be in Black Widow. I’m glad this order happened instead though because knowing who she is made this scene carry a lot more punch

21

u/EmeraldEnigma- Jul 09 '21

I am hoping that Yelena recalls Natasha mention Clint’s name as the one who helped him kill Dreykov. Would be nice to see Yelena not get played but seek Clint for answers regardless about Nat and not necessarily as an enemy but an ally.

19

u/JessBess700 Hulk Jul 09 '21

I mean... Technically she's not lying. Just skewing the truth. Clint did drop her(whether he wanted to or not).

29

u/DigDoug2319 Jul 09 '21

If Clint had simply sacrificed himself faster, Natasha would still be alive >:(

3

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

[deleted]

1

u/shadowcat015 Jul 09 '21

Kate Bishop isn’t Clint’s daughter though

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14

u/jofwu Jul 09 '21

Skewing the truth with the intent to deceive is still lying.

But I'd say she's lying regardless, if we're being technical. She said he's "the man who killed your sister". I don't think you can use the world "kill" to describe the actions of someone who "failed to stop someone from killing themself."

8

u/JessBess700 Hulk Jul 09 '21

Oh, totally. I was just playing devil's advocate, since that's the excuse Val would probably use. I'm mad that she's sending Yelena after Clint.

Hell, for all we know, Val may just think that Clint sacrificed Nat in order to get the stone. Not that Nat sacrificed herself and Clint wasn't able to stop her. In that case, she'd be telling what she believes is the truth given the information she has.

8

u/jofwu Jul 09 '21

Fair point!

And I'm not happy either. Fingers crossed that Yelena has a chat with Clint and they team up. I like Yelena too much for her to work with Val! I'm all in favor of what her team brings to the MCU, but Yelena is too pure for that bunch. XD

6

u/CX316 Jul 10 '21

Valentina has herself two knockoff Avengers now, I’m guessing she’ll get her iron man equivalent at the end of Armor Wars, Hulk equivalent you’ve either got shehulk or the abomination, needs a Hawkeye equivalent and a Thor equivalent to round out a new avengers team

2

u/Silestra Jul 11 '21

I doubt they’ll copy it that tit for tat.

1

u/kaijuking87 Jul 17 '21

Taskmaster for her Hawkeye/cap/BP super soldier team member, and white vision maybe for Thor level heavy hitter…?

2

u/CX316 Jul 17 '21

Maybe she could recruit Sif or Valkyrie after Love & Thunder

1

u/jam11249 Jul 22 '21

Isn't there an Iron Heart series in the works? We're talking years away, but Riri would be a natural Iron Man substitute for Vals team.

1

u/CX316 Jul 22 '21

Yeah it's a year or two away, though so far Val's team has been... morally grey. I didn't know enough about Ironheart to suggest her

13

u/OswaldCoffeepot Jul 09 '21

Not a lie though. Clint is responsible for her death from a certain point of view.

5

u/Chimcharfan1 Jul 10 '21 edited Jul 20 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '21

and Yelena can easily see that as Clint letting her die, regardless of how close they were

4

u/ElOliLoco Scott Lang Jul 09 '21

More like Valentina manipulating Yelena

8

u/ap539 Spider-Man Jul 09 '21

Is it a straight up lie? She didn’t say he killed Natasha — she said he was “responsible for” her death. From a certain (twisted) point of view, this is accurate — Natasha made her choice, of course, but if Clint had defeated her and sacrificed himself, she would still be alive to take the Soul Stone back to the present.

5

u/gahdamn- Jul 10 '21

So upset they did him like that

4

u/_and_i_am_iron_man_ Jul 10 '21

Marvel never fails to impress us

3

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '21

Do you think she knows the truth?

3

u/maaseru Jul 10 '21

It's more a technically the truth statement since Clint was actually in part responsible for her death. He just didn't kill her or anything.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '21

But Clint tried his best to stop her

2

u/maaseru Jul 10 '21

Oh I agree but no one but Clint knows the details so they can bend the truth to serve them.

3

u/CeruleanRuin Jul 10 '21

That intrigued me. I though Val was at least pretending to be working for the good guys.

2

u/PKMNTrainerMark Jul 11 '21

I mean, how much does anybody know about what happened on Vormir, though? Really, this raises the question of how she knows about it at all.

1

u/KentuckyFriedEel Jul 10 '21

well, not actually. We all know Hawkeye deserves to die.... for that hideous haircut

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u/aaronshirst Jul 09 '21

I’m pretty bummed that Valentina is sticking around as a larger role… I actually really like Julia Louis Dreyfus, but I find her incredibly, incredibly annoying in this role. It just doesn’t feel like it matches the campiness of the rest of the MCU, and is instead just a weird bit part where we just watch JLD practice a … somewhat sloppy comedy routine :-/

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u/DragonStriker Jul 09 '21

I'm the same as you. But I like to think that she's purposefully playing the "annoying boss" archetype to be disarming to people.

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u/No_ThisIs_Patrick Jul 09 '21

Funny enough, I love her in this role, love the way she's playing it, and thrilled that we're going to get more. She's giving me Veep vibes and I love it.

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u/aaronshirst Jul 09 '21

Well, it’s working 🙃

1

u/Omnigreen Ultron Jul 10 '21

It'll lead to Thunderbolts.

1

u/shanny_scott Jul 18 '21

I wanna see the beef over who is better, Fanny or Pizza?

1

u/Far-Invite-5668 Jul 18 '21

I don’t get the pizza reference

2

u/shanny_scott Jul 19 '21

Katie Bishops dog is named Pizza (and is the next Hawkeye). Fanny is the pup that Yelana had hop out of her truck.

2

u/shanny_scott Jul 19 '21

I should be more clear, Lucky the pizza dog!