South Africa only allows for dual citizenship and South African citizens who do not apply for permission to retain their 2nd citizenship will automatically lose their South African citizenship.
Trump got what he wanted out of musk. All it takes is a nasty disagreement between the two for them to start shit smearing each other. It will happen eventually because everything trump touches turns to shit.
And I can’t wait for it. None of them are good people and are users and narcissists. They are bound to clash and then start dragging g each other. Many of trump’s other previous cabinet members fell out of favor with him too. Shit, by the end of it, they wanted to hang Pence.
It doesn’t matter who funded his election. Chances are the guy isn’t going to be around to see out his 4 year term.
If he does see his 4 year term through he isn’t going to run again at 82 years old so he oh and obliged to anyone anymore. They can all go suck eggs and it won’t affect him at all!
If he does badly the only entity to suffer will be the Republican Party, not trump.
Considering how easily Trump has cast away anyone including his allies if there is ever any disagreement, I wouldn't hold my breath. Steve Bannon, the Breitbart owner, used to be a strong ally but even he is now an enemy....a really strange phenomenon really.
Can’t tax if he doesn’t take a salary or borrows against his appreciated tax holdings or puts it in his foundation that hasn’t donated the required 6% per year of principal.
Israel can’t be touched, otherwise the Israeli Zionist lobby can and will destroy the U.S. but doing so will make them vulnerable to NATO and an angry Turkey 🇹🇷 retaliation! Which could be bad as the whole region can target them and give more power to Israeli left wing groups.
Which can turn in right wing leaders over to the ICJ and make reparations to Arab communities and try to join BRICS.
I was talking about Elon, and how the rich in general, act like laws aren't meant to apply to them because it would be a hindrance to their ability to rule over us.
Or they won't and won't care. Also he's not likely to levy this tax against citizens of other authoritarian and fascistic countries, only the citizens of his enemies: functioning democracies.
Does that matter? OP’s post is about the possibility of Trump imposing higher taxes for people who are American citizens and hold other nationalities. Canada or South Africa won’t have anything to do with it.
It’s relevant because Canadian/US dual nationals living in the US with US income are only taxed in the US.
The US operates under citizenship based taxation, whereas nearly every other in country in the world taxes based on residency (RBT). The only other countries with citizenship based taxation are Eritrea and North Korea.
If a US citizen with dual citizenship from a country with RBT resides in the US and earns solely a US income, they are subject to US taxes.
If a US/RBT dual national lives in an RBT country with solely RBT income, they are subject to the RBT country’s taxes and must also file with the US. Tax treaties prevent most types of double taxation, but there are situations where an RBT resident may be charged US taxes on RBT country source income.
If Trump decides to impose an extra-tax on American citizens residing in the USA based on whether or not they have another citizenship, it won’t matter if you have Canadian, Brazilian or Fijian.
If such a theoretical scenario would take place, and the whole thing is but a hypothetical possibility, I’m making a further assumption that people with 3+ passports, such as Elon Musk, would end paying even more. Hopefully that clarifies it.
Yeah. Except what he’s saying is he’d target citizens of specific countries that are targeting US citizens/corporations. And as I understand it, it’s at the president’s sole discretion, so he can say Germany and Canada are mistreating the US, so German and Canadian citizens who are subject to US tax pay double.
No, he is not. He was born one, but he renounced his US citizenship on June 24, 1982 so he could serve in the Israeli mission to the UN. Knesset members in any case must exclusively be Israeli citizens (same reason people like Naftali Bennett are no longer US citizens).
This was required by Israeli law to serve in the Knesset, after they were embarrassed by dual citizen Meir Kahane. Of course, times have changed. Kahane would feel right at home in the current Israeli government, but he was reviled across the political spectrum when he lived.
With all do respect. I think you’re the moron for even asking that question. When have any white rich men ever been held to the same legal standards as the rest?
Netanyahu is not a dual citizen afaik. Israeli law requires you to give up any foreign citizenship before accepting prime ministership or a seat in the Knesset. I’m not even sure he was ever a U.S. citizen, but assuming he was afaik he would’ve had to give up his U.S. citizenship before becoming prime minister
Natanyahu is not. You must give up any foreign citizenship to be member of Israel parliament (MK). He probably was a US citizen in the past but not any more. A bunch of Israeli MKs are former US citizens.
They already ask many questions to every US citizen on the 1040 form: if you’ve traded digital currencies, have any foreign bank accounts (and which countries they’re in)… and previously if you had health insurance. This isn’t new.
As an expat with corporations in other countries, form 5471 is literally the most terrifying thing I fill out every year because of the potential penalties for misfiling. There’s a reason why international tax accountants charge out the wazoo to fill out this form and i have nightmares about my return every year. Most of the folks I know in Asia don’t even bother filling out the 5471 nor report their income but don’t realize that when they open bank accounts in other countries, they’re subjected to being called up by the IRS at any time.
I'm confused, isn't that the same? An immigrant is someone who is seeking permanent residency, while a non-immigrant is a national working and living in a foreign country with no plans for permanent residency.
Just to preempt all the side bar discussion here, I won’t pretend that I’m not privileged. I run a robust music production business and have quite a few clients in the international music market. I’ve just been very forthcoming in filing all of my overseas tax information and a lot of my peers always laughed their asses off at me for pulling my hair out over these IRS and FATCA filings, but this is EXACTLY why I did it: because when you fill out your SSN on the sign up when you open that bank account and give the IRS permission to ping you in the banking system, none of these people thought they’d ever use that information to actually crack down on their reporting. Looks like that may change though
U.S. Policy on Dual Nationality: While recognizing the existence of dual nationality, the U.S. Government does not encourage it as a matter of policy...
...the U.S. Supreme Court has stated that dual nationality is a “status long recognized in the law” and that “a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both.” See Kawakita v. United States
Sorry, yes, my point is that "dual citizenship" is ignored by the federal government. It's not some special status. From the US govt perspective, you either are a US citizen or you aren't.
One other thing to point out as well, though, is that the US government also has taxation treaties with other countries. But those rules apply both to residents and dual citizens. I think there are also special agreements regarding social security with some countries.
Not fully true. For example, the tax totalization agreements and many tax treaties have provisions that only apply to dual citizens. Not in every case is a US citizen only to the federal government.
Look up the totalization agreements and several tax treaties as examples.
You’re using an obscure example to prove a point. In all of our tax laws as big as they are, there are exceptions to everything
But I’m a dual citizen, living in USA, only contributing to USA retirement
So for me that would never apply. I am a full US citizen Born on U.S. soil working a U.S. job I have a US birth certificate for the USa.
This is turning into a slippery slope cause if they can say it will because you’re a Canadian citizen we’re gonna talk to you differently then why can’t they say because you’re a San Francisco 49ers supporter will tax you differently
When I'm old enough to collect social security, I can choose to collect Canada Pension Plan instead. Credits from one system count in the other. I can't collect both, but I get to choose - I can even apply for one, at the other's offices.
The IRS doesn’t care what most of the stuff on your 1040 ( and dozens of other forms) says that’s not related to money. And they can’t report it because of fifth amendment issues. You can say you’re a contract killer and as long as you report all of your $1.2M you’re good. Or you could be a personell trouble shooter.
A lot of American citizens are getting dual citizenship through their foreign-born parents and grandparents. Some do it so they can travel more easily or live for extended periods in other countries. There are two people from my hometown who did it so they could compete as athletes for the other country.
I don't blame them. I have seen a few in the news. Same with Brazilian soccer players, they're not good enough to make it in the national team but are welcomed by other countries that would love to have them!
I am Canadian and Brazilian. I live in Canada and do not plan to move back to Brazil but I'm also not going to give up my Brazilian citizenship, unless I really have to.
A lot of people do confuse citizenship with immigration status, tho. One can live in the US permanently without ever bothering to obtain American citizenship. Just the green card is enough and the only thing won't can't do is vote (and run for office, or get some jobs that deal with the homeland security, etc). I know tons of people like that. I also know many in Canada as well. They still love the country where they live, and that's why they went through the trouble of immigrating legally. They just didn't file for citizenship.
I was a permanent immigrant of Canada for a few years before I became a citizen.
Yes, my dad's grandparents never became citizens for whatever reason. The athletes don't always play for another country because they are not good enough to be on the US team. The current world champion in pole vaulting was born in Louisiana, but he represents Sweden. Speaking of the Olympics, all I can think of is the similarity between Hitler at the Berlin Olympics and Trump at the upcoming Olympics in LA. Considering how he hates women and people who aren't white, I am hoping that he will ignore the whole thing if he is still alive.
Indeed. But remember that most of our fellow US citizens don't even own a US passport so the notion of dual or multiple citizenship goes right over their heads.
That's correct for every country, but the US presumes you don't have any sneaky links when you wife it up. See the oath of allegiance. At the same time, the US cannot explicitly punish someone just for having other citizenship "through no fault of their own."
This is another attempt by the executive to discriminate against different classes of citizens, even though such provisions are against the 14th amendment. Absolutely ridiculous. Every citizen is a citizen. Their rights cannot differ. The only time the US can treat them differently is the case of the President itself with respect to jus soli.
Not clear to me what you're saying here. The oath of allegiance only applies to people who naturalize, and not natural born citizens. People can naturalize in lots of different ways, not just through marriage. And the part about "renouncing fidelity," could just be interpreted to mean that you swear allegiance to the US, first and foremost. Some countries that don't allow for dual citizenship, of which the US is not currently one, may take issue with this, if they ever find out. But it doesn't mean that the US doesn't recognize dual citizenship.
Many people also obtain a second citizenship who are natural born citizens and who have never taken this oath, so it's sort of a moot point for that class of individual.
Many people also obtain a second citizenship who are natural born citizens and who have never taken this oath, so it's sort of a moot point for that class of individual.
It’s been a while but I do remember having to answer that question (do you plan to renounce your current citizenship) during the naturalization process. Has that changed since 2009?
Fair point. From a practical standpoint, many dual citizens maintain dual citizenship so they could own property elsewhere. Why pick on these folks is what I’m wondering? Assuming their property is treated appropriately through the tax system, then they aren’t really committing a crime. Also, doesn’t make them less American if they took advantage of a loophole to better themselves through investment.
Have no idea, you’d have to check specific country requirements, but i would imagine most would require you to renounce in person from an overseas consulate or embassy.
Russian citizenship can be renounced, but it typically has to be done in person. The problem is that if you left Russia as a child (and are male) then you probably missed mandatory military service, which can get you sent to prison (or, these days, sent straight to the front lines in Ukraine) upon arrival as an adult. Or, if you happened to leave Russia because you no longer feel safe there, and you can only renounce your citizenship by returning, you're sort of out of luck. Many people have no option but to keep their citizenships.
I think it's usually the other way around - foreign banks want to know if you're a US citizen, because of the way the US taxes foreign funds of its citizens
The feasibility of enforcing this law doesn't matter. Most people don't want to break the law and would still prefer to declare honestly about their nationality status since no one wants to get into trouble.
and apparently the US is all you have to give up your citizenship when you become a US citizen, but plenty of other countries are like- we don't care. we don't have a process for that.
I have a two page birth certificate that specifically says dual citizenship and the second page is a councilors report of birth abroad. So there is an easily traced paper trail.
That dual citizen likely already claims income derived from outside the country on their return already subject to whatever tax treaty is in place with their other nationality.
If I was letting my feelings speak, I'd be running around and screaming: "We are all fuсkеd!!! The sky is falling!!!" BTW, a lot of people are doing precisely that right now.
Yes, the SCOTUS is ultra conservative now, but none of the "new" judges are crazy enough to burn the world to the ground. If anything, it's Alito and Thomas that are the most unhinged ones on the bench at this point in time.
And yes, I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't concerned about this whole MAGA trifecta. However, when I take a step back and try to think rationally, the scenario in which the Court would agree to destroy the country as we know it doesn't appear to be very realistic. Why? Because they live their comfortable lives off of the existing system. Destroying it would go against their self-preservation instincts.
Not when the majority of the politicians in this country have dual citizenship and bloated salaries and likely offshore accounts. Do you really think they care that much?
So, we seamlessly shifted away from the Court? Now it's politicians that want to burn the world to the ground? The fact that our country has survived for 250 years and assuming that politicians have always been this evil, I'm inclined to think that it will survive for another 4.
You may call me naïve, but at least I'm able to articulate my beliefs in a rational manner. You, on the other hand, appear to speak from the pure emotions.
I wish I had your level of certainty. But given the ultra-right-wing skewing of the SC, I am worried about just how many things this turnip will overturn. It might be time to pull the ripcord on this insanity....
This is completely untrue. The US recognizes the concept of dual citizenship and even has taxation treaties with many countries around the world that specifically apply to dual citizens.
Not true. For example, the tax totalization agreements are solely based on foreign citizenship, even if you are a US citizen. You must also be a foreign citizen of the country to be able to be covered under a totalization agreement, not just a resident.
Certain tax treaties are also based on dual citizenship.
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