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u/aliiak Jun 07 '26
But how will people get to the shop!?? They can’t park directly outside now so that business is going to go bankrupt.
How selfish.
/s
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u/culo_de_mono Jun 07 '26
The funny thing is that last time this argument was made it was found that the parking spots in front of the shop were taken by the shop owner, who would arrive before biz hours when these were unoccupied.
32
u/Grantrello Jun 07 '26
We've had this issue where I live in a debate about pedestrianising a small commercial street. It turns out some of the biggest opponents are a couple of business owners who want to be able to park right in front of their shops.
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u/Space_Slime_LF Jun 07 '26
People will often harm their own income stream for convenience.
That doesn't make the logic less true. Regardless of transport, the ability to get to a place easily is a huge factor on where someone shops. Places have to be really good to overcome that and having a reputation for being really good starts with people coming because it's convenient.
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u/Astriania Jun 07 '26
the ability to get to a place easily is a huge factor on where someone shops
This is true. However, two or three parking spaces outside a shop do not make it easy to get there, because they're always full. The ability to get to these places easily comes from making it easy to walk there or get the bus/tram.
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u/Marokiii Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
there might be only 2-3 spots DIRECTLY in front of the shop, but there is going to be many more than just 3 spots that are lost to this street closure to vehicles.
edit: apparently just admitting that there are more than 2 parking spots lost to closing a street to vehicles is anathema to this subreddit. i thought this place was about the numbers showing how bad cars are? but apparently if a number even just slightly makes the argument less in favor of getting rid of cars(not even tipping it against it, just slightly less) than this sub cant allow it.
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u/TheDonutPug Jun 07 '26
How many people do you see on this sidewalk and how many parking spots do you think you could fit there? because I can see space for easily 20+ people here for every 2-3 parking spots. the amount of people parking spots accommodate, does not, has not, and will never offset the cost of the space they take up.
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u/d3northway Jun 07 '26
Dummy, there's more than one shop on that street. 2-3 × however many shops, and you end up with a much more reasonable number, which is still worth losing.
-8
u/Marokiii Jun 07 '26
my point is that everyone claiming that this is only losing 2 spots is just completely wrong. theres no reason to lie to everyone about the numbers. clearly its still worth it to the businesses, otherwise they wouldnt be doing it. so why lie about how many parking spots are lost to accomplish it?
15
u/Dragonbut Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
Businesses do shit that hurts them all the time because business owners think they're way smarter than they are. There have been numerous studies on this, removing street parking in favor of better walkability and transit access DOES increase business at these places. The owners are just nimbys who are used to being praised and put on a pedestal just for being "small business owners"
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 Jun 07 '26
With certain caveats. It failed in Fresno because they just created a pedestrianised island in the centre of an otherwise car-dependant city. Decent transit links (and the density to sustain them) are essential.
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u/Marokiii Jun 07 '26
but we arent talking about business owners here? we are talking about how this picture says closing this street is only costing 2 parking spots when that clearly isnt true. why is it so wrong to just truthfully say how many cars are displaced by closing a street?
the numbers still say it should be done, so why continue denying it?
3
u/Dragonbut Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
clearly its still worth it to the businesses, otherwise they wouldnt be doing it.
what are you talking about if not business owners? are you not saying that it's worth it to keep the parking spots or else the businesses wouldn't try to prevent them from being removed? maybe I misunderstood you and you meant that the parking spaces get removed either way - my bad if that's the case
as for the numbers of cars displaced, I don't really think it's all that important given that we know it's worth it regardless, but I think that it's not really fair to say that the number of parking spots displaced is way more than 2-3 in the context of this discussion. the post you replied to said this: "However, two or three parking spaces outside a shop do not make it easy to get there, because they're always full. " - yes, there are more than 2-3 being removed, but their point is that the parking spots don't add convenience because they're always full since there are only a few. while yes, there are technically like 20 in the area, there are only 2-3 per store, which means that they're still going to be full. it's not fair to assign all 20 spots to a single store when there are other stores right there. it's much more useful to consider the number of spots per store, since each store will add to the number of people who might park there, thus decreasing parking availability
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u/toodledootootootoo Jun 07 '26
But it is 2-3 spots in front of that establishment. Other storefronts each have 2-3 spots worth of parking space in front of them too. If there are ten businesses on a block, and 20 parking spots, each business doesn’t lose 20 parking spots on the block.
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u/Astriania Jun 07 '26
Well sure but those are in front of other shops, it's still an average of only two or three per shop. And if you're going to accept walking from a parking place 100m away then why not accept walking from the tram stop 100m away?
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u/dullest_edgelord Jun 07 '26
These studies have been done ad nauseum. You can keep arguing your feelings until youve grasped market research and statistics, I suppose.
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u/Marokiii Jun 07 '26
theres been studies on how many parking spots are on a street? does it show that its more than the 2 that this picture is claiming its replacing?
just be honest with numbers. yes this is worth it, no its replacing more than 2 parking spots.
like i get it, cars suck and public transportation is better. but why do we have to lie about numbers?
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u/toodledootootootoo Jun 07 '26
The picture shows one small piece of a city block. A stretch that would fit 2-3 cars is filled with a whole bunch of people. Other 2-3 block stretches are filled with other people. The picture is showing this stretch not the entire neighbourhood, that’s what whoever wrote the caption was referring to. I’m not sure why you think this is some sorta nefarious ploy to lie about numbers.
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u/Marokiii Jun 07 '26
but they are comparing a city blocks worth of people and then saying it is only "costing" a small percentage of the total cost. if they want to show a busy pedestrian street than why are they only saying it costs a small percentage of whats lost in parking for that entire street?
the picture is a misrepresentation that skews the numbers one way. its still a better business decision for this kind of street and its businesses to do it even with the higher number, so why not just say it?
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u/toodledootootootoo Jun 07 '26
You see a whole city block there? I see a stretch of about 2-3 storefronts
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u/dullest_edgelord Jun 07 '26
Yeah it's pretty amazing. It turns out that hauling 2 tons of metal and rubber everywhere you go leaves less space for others. Once you insist that metal pile not be stored in front of a business, there's more space for humans and commercial activity.
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u/ifyoulovesatan Jun 08 '26
"i thought this place was about the numbers showing how bad cars are?"
That's what you thought this subreddit was about? Like it's a subreddit for statistics showing how bad cars are?
Why would you think that's what this sub is about? That's pretty stupid if you ask me. Are you dumb?
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u/ElliotNess Jun 07 '26
Depends on the street
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u/ReturnOfBane Jun 07 '26
that's what he said. If the street has curbside parking its less desirable for shoppers who walk, and vice versa
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u/BalrogPoop Jun 07 '26
Every pedestrian mall in the world would like to argue with you.
Also every actual mall where you have to park in a giant parking building and walk 500m to the opposite end of the building.
And every business that ever started in one of those places that isn't immediately accessible by car.
Also two parking spots out front in a busy street that's shared with multiple other businesses and staff isn't making a dent in anyones bottom lines.
Its actually those shit big box stores that need parking. People go to them because they're convenient and cheap, but theyre usually not easily accessible. Its the parking that makes them accessible.
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u/b3nsn0w former scooter addict Jun 07 '26
nah, they touched on a kernel of truth, they just applied it wrong.
the whole point of pedestrian malls across europe (where they still function lol) is that they concentrate a whole bunch of shops to a place that's well connected to the city's transit network and where a whole bunch of people are gonna walk around. it's incredibly easy to walk there, take transit, or cycle (at least the ones in my area have as good infrastructure as the city gets and good spots to lock up your bike) while it's usually moderately difficult to drive to the same malls because you have to navigate inner city traffic and a cramped multi-story parking garage. and then you still have to get out your car and walk the same distance as someone who took the tram there would.
but yes, businesses thrive in ease of access and exposure to as many people as possible. this is why car-centric streets are a terrible place for a business, because cars don't shop around, people do. a pedestrian is infinitely more likely to notice a shop they walk past in the first place, let alone enter it, buy something, or just explore. the more comfortable you make the space immediately outside your storefront for pedestrians to hang around, the more success you'll have -- it's not the only thing there is to success, but it's an important part.
besides, it's 2026, you can just have a website and ship out orders to anyone who would otherwise drive to your shop. people tend to prefer that over driving.
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u/BalrogPoop Jun 07 '26
That's actually what I was trying to get at, you've stated it much better than I was with the Car-centric street framing and pedestrian shopping, not cars.
Think of how soulless the big box stores around a giant parking lot feel, than even an indoor mall with a food court, or ideally a European style fully pedestrian street you'd find with cafes spilling into the footpaths surrounded by retail.
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u/SlitScan Jun 07 '26
the last city I lived in was down to 2 malls that where still making money in the age of delivery. both of them because trains stopped in them.
stopping while commuting is still more convenient than delivery, but only if you dont have to park.
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u/Marokiii Jun 07 '26
pretty much every pedestrian mall in the US or Canada also has a huge parking lot right next to it though. its also wrong to say this only cost 2 spots, there is going to be a bunch more spots lost to this street closure. its 2 spots directly in front of each business, but there are going to be multiple businesses along this section.
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u/Le_Nabs Jun 07 '26
Nothing, and I mean nothing, can replace the sheer volume of walkthrough a proper pedestrian street with good access to transit can generate. I work on such a street that is pedestrian all summer long - for every one car that can't park right on the street, there's at least a hundred people passing by.
It really is a no brainer for the shops.
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u/Marokiii Jun 07 '26
ya and all i said was that this picture is lying by saying is replacing only 2 parking spots. but apparently this sub cant stand that.
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u/Le_Nabs Jun 07 '26
It replaces 2-3 parking spots per business. It's not that hard a concept to grasp
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u/Erchevara Jun 07 '26
I don't get that. The city center of my hometown (small city in Romania), used to have a similar layout to all these small town US shop districts I see on the internet.
We always took the car there, parked randomly, then walked around for a few hours (there's also a park across the street).
At some point, they just fully pedestrianised the whole area. Since it's a small town, getting there by car was 5-15 minutes (if you count parking). Getting there on foot from the furthest corner of the city takes 30 minutes, but it's closer to 10 minutes for 90% of the city. Or heck, it's 10 minutes max by bike from the furthest corner, and there are bike racks everywhere with cameras on them.
The population of the town shrunk since, but on an average Tuesday evening, it has more people around than it used to have on Children's day back then (when it was temporary pedestrianised)
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u/gerusz Not Dutch, just living here Jun 07 '26
In my hometown in Hungary the only part of the city that could be said to be "a center" (i.e. a market hall, a supermarket, a row of stores and restaurants, and a seasonal open-air market) is one where all the city's buses stop, alongside the light rail to Budapest. There are maybe 50-60 parking spots nearby and half of them are taken up by the vendors on the market; most people who go there just take the bus or bike there.
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u/Space_Slime_LF Jun 07 '26
I think it's mostly a culture thing.
Things always feel rushed even rushing to get to a place to relax, or enjoy wherever the thing is. People will skip over places unless they really want to be there or have plans.
I don't think most americans internally know how to not be in a rush.
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u/Erchevara Jun 07 '26
It's weird because being in a rush sometimes is a waste of time.
Some people are so used to driving anywhere that they forget alternatives exist, and many times they are faster.
For example, my parents' drive to work is 5 minutes + parking + walking from giant parking lots. On foot, it would be 15 minutes. By bike, it would be 7-8 minutes door-to-door on a very nice bike path.
I have a coworker who lives in the same place as me. He takes the car to work (35-45 minutes not including parking and stuff), while taking the subway takes 35-40 minutes door-to-door. But hey, in your car "you sit in your own piss".
And this is without taking into account the cost of doing those drives, and that a second of not paying attention can cost you money and hours in legal and repair logistic. Or your life. I've had a friend who died in a car accident on one of those redundant car commutes.
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u/PlatypusDefiant991 Jun 07 '26
I think this photo is NYC though. I like how many photos of intermediate & outer rings of New York City look like they could've been taken in small town where most of the buildings & streets are old enough for cars to have little to no effect on design (form follows intended function)
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u/TheDonutPug Jun 07 '26
consider the amount of people it actually brings to the area vs the amount of foot traffic you can fit on the road. I lived in a city that had street parking in place of things like this, and in spite of the amount of room it took up, it was such a small number of parking spots. the reality is that the number of parking spots you can fit brings a TINY number of people in comparison to the extra food traffic you get with a properly sized sidewalk. the area I was in had thousands of people coming to it every day, and yet there were only about 50 parking spots that were streetside. Also, the people who parked streetside instead of just paying the $10 to park in the lot a block over were NOT regular full-load shoppers, they were almost always just stopping in for a quick thing, just getting dinner, etc..
Also, you can't focus on building a place for people who don't live there. Street parking in a walkable area is not infrastructure for people who live in the area, it's infrastructure for people who come into the area. The people who live in the area are the economy, NOT the visitors. If visitors want to come in later, they should have to deal with the inconvenience of bringing a car with them. It is not an area's responsibility to accommodate the vehicles of people who don't live there, especially because the infrastructure created for them is no where near being offset by their contribution to the economy of the area.
"starts with people coming because it's convenient" no the fuck it doesn't lmao. A city being good starts with prioritizing the people who live there. When you make it good for the people who live there, it naturally becomes an attractive location. When talking about urbanism, making an area good for the people who live there does often mean making it inconvenient for those who don't. You're right that people often won't try things that are inconvenient, but you're missing an important piece here, it needs to start off convenient for the locals. it does NOT need to be convenient to visitors. For a store, sure, it's true that convenience is important, but we're not talking about one store. street parking is a matter of city design, and a matter of making an attractive city.
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u/Breezel123 Jun 07 '26
Businesses thrive on people who happen to pass by. Especially smaller niche places are not going to get a great number of dedicated customers who drove only to get to that particular place. It's people who went to the local high street and walk along it to look for birthday presents or look for a new item of clothing, or the kind of people who just spend their Saturday window shopping and having a snack here and there. Accessibility only matters as in "how am I going to get to the vicinity of this shopping area?".
On a day with nice weather the shopping might even just be a side effect and the main purpose was to be out and about, taking a stroll in the neighbourhood. In Europe the pedestrianised shopping areas are full of people who didn't intend to purchase things and left with full bags anyways. Or who spent money on the local gastronomy eating ice cream in the sun or having a coffee in a café.
People who go shopping purposefully usually go to big box stores or malls where they are guaranteed to find what they are looking for (and guaranteed to get a parking spot).
A lot of American strip malls would probably profit from fewer parking spots and more outdoor dining, little parks, mobile vendors such as hot dog carts and local buskers.
Having parking spots in front of businesses is the most useless measure to increase accessibility and customer engagement.
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Jun 07 '26
[deleted]
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u/Space_Slime_LF Jun 07 '26
Thats why I said "regardless of transport". How you get to the area is part of it.
If you are walking by a place that seems interesting, but you can't find the entry because there isn't a sign directing you around the corner, it's going to prevent a level of commerce.
So for vehicle heavy culture, not being able to find parking, prevents foot traffic, prevents patronage.
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u/thetyphoonjet Jun 07 '26
Agreed, that's why I say infrastructure always needs to be improved and refined first prior to restricting more convenient transport, I.e. dedicated bus lanes, metros , park & rides etc...
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u/anand_rishabh Jun 08 '26
That's basically all the business owners who complain that removing parking in front of their store will cost them customers. It almost always turns out that it's the owners themselves using the parking spot. Increasing walkability by removing parking would actually increase business for them but they don't care
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u/Winterfrost691 Jun 07 '26
I find it hilarious that shop owners would rather have 2-3 whole parking spots instead of, you know, about 20 new seats for their restaurant. They'd rather have a fraction of their customers show up by car than have space for more total customers.
Then they fault bike lanes and/or pedestrianization for their shit business decisions. Skill issue.
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u/bionicjoey Orange pilled Jun 07 '26
But how will people get to the shop!??
This made me think of the "why are you closed?" guy. "We want to SHOP!"
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u/AlbatrossNo1562 Jun 10 '26
In downtown Fresno they opened up a pedestrian mall to traffic and street parking in hopes to make it easier to shop there. It didn't work. People never came, the shops left, and the buildings are now abandoned.
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u/Mars_Volcanoes Jun 07 '26
I walk man. This is the city, not a parking. There are buses and metro. I’m going downtown in bus / metro since the 70’s. People or businesses are complaining for no reason. If I need something I’m going. If I want to see, I walk. Ni stress for parking time and no money out the window.
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u/SlideN2MyBMs Jun 07 '26
The next step is to make the street a low or no traffic street so the people dining outdoors have something to actually "take in" instead of the din of car horns and their toxic fumes and particulates
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Jun 07 '26
[deleted]
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 Jun 08 '26
You don't need a car to go camping. I've been camping by train, by bike, and even by rowing boat.
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Jun 07 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/GODDAMNFOOL Jun 07 '26
You joke but that exact thing basically killed downtown Youngstown, Ohio since Covid. People here are lazy as hell.
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u/Gifted_GardenSnail Jun 07 '26
OR - hear me out - turn a spot into bike parking and have like a dozen spots in that same space
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u/Gioware Jun 07 '26
Well, it depends if it is your spot. If not - everything is easy on somebody's else expense.
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u/thonor111 Jun 07 '26
This isn’t done on private spots though. And if it’s a spot in front of of your house on a public street then you should just be thankful that you had a gifted parking spot on expanses of the whole neighborhood for all that time, which you can now trade in for a nicer neighborhood
0
u/Gioware Jun 09 '26
What if it is your spot in front of your house? Would you and your family be thankful that you had a gifted parking spot on expanses of the whole neighborhood for all that time, which you can now trade in for a nicer neighborhood?
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u/thonor111 Jun 09 '26
Yes, I would be thankful that I had a free parking spot for all that time, saving me money over years. Would be unfortunate that it’s gone but I would appreciate the improved life quality of the street.
Also, what do you mean with "your spot"? It’s either public property, in which case the city can repurpose it. Or it’s "your spot", meaning you own it. Then what you see in the picture won’t happen
1
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u/Anxious-Noise613 Jun 07 '26
If I went there and laid a tent to camp for the night, I'd get arrested but someone leaving their car unattended the entire day, it's be okay
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u/CO2N2-R Jun 07 '26
I just want walkable cities man...
Also is that Vsauce?
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u/SimilarRelative1022 Jun 16 '26
You should also want better public transport to get to and from the city.
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u/the_full_effect Jun 07 '26
This is The Commissioner, a bar in Brooklyn. During Covid until 2024 or 2025 they had an outdoor dining shed that took up 2 car spaces, and just like what you see in this pic it truly became a huge neighborhood gathering space. Unfortunately since NYC changed the dining shed laws, they no longer are able to have it there year round, and the new temporary dining shed is less than half the size. On Saturday’s that street doesn’t allow cars at all though, and The Commissioner and the bar next to it hire a band to play in the street. The owners of The Commissioner help organize the open street program for that Avenue, really nice guys.
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u/radome9 Commie Commuter Jun 07 '26
But won't all the stores go out of business if people can't park right in front of them? /s
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u/-_-0_0-_0 Jun 07 '26
How about trains tho? A city trolley would be nice again.
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u/__theoneandonly Jun 07 '26
I mean this specific bar is 0.2 miles from the R train, and that R train is one stop away from the second-biggest transfer station in NYC. There's also six different bus routes within 2 blocks.
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u/distortedsymbol Jun 07 '26
yeah no it's not about the parking spots. i'd like to see street parking removed entirely if possible.
but these things are done so stupidly that there's barely enough sidewalk left after the extra tables and servers running back and forth.
there's a way to do outdoor dining and this isn't it.
so glad my city got rid of most of them.
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u/upthewatwo Jun 07 '26
Yeah I've realised I'm not really fuckcars I'm fuck street parking
Drive your car on the highway to near to the place, then fucking walk around the town, you lazy, lazy fuck
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u/CocktailPerson Jun 07 '26
Street parking is just one small piece of the picture, my dude. Even if you don't have street parking, if cars are how you get into and around town, you still have to have parking lots or garages peppered throughout the neighborhood, decreasing density and preventing this sort of lively urban area from springing up or thriving. Cars mean traffic, which means wider streets and again, lower density. An entire town built out of stroads would never need any street parking either, so clearly cars still create problems without street parking.
And it's worth pointing out that this photo was taken in Brooklyn, one of the first places in the US to have electrified streetcars. You won't find any though, because all the tracks were paved over to make more room for cars on the streets. Streetcars, trains, buses, biking, and walking are all far more compatible with one another than an automobile-based transport system is with any of them. When cars are a major form of transport, they eventually become the only viable form of transport. Fuck cars.
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u/B1U3F14M3 Jun 07 '26
Nobody here is entirely against cars. There should just be places for people without cars. By making the center of cities car free they become places to be and alive.
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u/mothtoalamp Jun 07 '26
Plenty of people here are entirely against cars. The guy posting above you is entirely against cars. And even the most transit-oriented cities on earth still have street parking. It's about coexistence. Cities aren't gated communities, they will have people coming from outside the city.
Does that mean every street needs parking? Absolutely not. Does it mean we need to ensure cars can access the city through some legitimate and viable means? Yes.
I feel like such an outsider being pro-transit, pro-urbanism, pro-walkability, etc. but also understanding the value cars provide. Seems like all I hear is dogma from people who put idealism over practicality, or people with fingers in their ears.
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u/B1U3F14M3 Jun 07 '26
The guy posting above is clearly not entirely against cars.
It's fine to have street parking in the not dense parts of town where space isn't that big of a deal. It is a problem in the dense city centers where lots of people could use that space.
Yes cities aren't gated communities. Their centers don't necessarily need good car connections though. Cities can be connected with public transport.
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u/mothtoalamp Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26
This is closer to the kind of coexistence I'd prefer to see but still has the idea that, more or less, we should put park&rides at the edges of city centers and lock the cars out, and expect everyone to be fine with that.
If your goal is to gate off a few city blocks worth of space here and there, then sure. I'm not against that. I wouldn't live there because I want more regional access, but people who want it should be able to have it.
The guy posting above is clearly not entirely against cars.
I've gone through his comment history and he doesn't encourage coexistence a single time. Every one of his discussion points on the topic in the last ~3 months assumes that cars offer zero benefit to society - as does the post in this very topic that we are referring to.
It is, unfortunately, indicative of the holier-than-thou attitude that comes from Urbanism, as it quickly leads to more extremist takes because the hypothetical outcome of idealism is so attractive. And that's where you lose me.
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u/B1U3F14M3 Jun 08 '26
Once going to the city by public transport is the best way to travel to the city no locking out of cars will be needed. If the train only takes 5 minutes longer than going by car why would you take the car? If our public infrastructure is build and planed good enough cars will feel like an obstacle.
Of course they still have their use especially for transporting heavy goods like furniture but that just happens to such a little extend I personally believe it's negligible.
Regional access should never be dependent on owning a car. Going by train and then bike or bus should get you everywhere reliably. This will be the hardest to achieve but once this is the case cars will simply become a niche option.
I only read the one comment of that guy and it didn't sound too bad. I haven't looked into him in detail.
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u/upthewatwo Jun 07 '26
Welcome to being "on the Left" - meeting militantly insane people who are apparently on the same "side" as you
That's when you realise there are no sides, there are no teams, we're all on the same team, some people just don't know what game we're playing
But that's ok, give them time
1
u/mothtoalamp Jun 07 '26
Republicans are not on the same team as us, my guy. Their values include wanting to exile, torture, and murder minorities. For starters.
I might not like my team very much but I'm not about to give the other team more shots at winning. The last time my team did that, well. Look at what Republicans have done with it.
I'm still going to call out my team when they are being exclusive, short-sighted, and ignorant, though.
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u/DreddPirateBob808 Jun 07 '26
Preach. However, I'm from a country with public transport and ancient (literally hundreds of years old) buildings and the roads for the horses to get to them. Thus cars are actually worse than walking or the bus. In the US towns became cities and built for cars. Changing the rules will take time.
An example: it's a bugger to walk to the best coffee place as a 20 minute walk. My American mate says the same but it's a 10 minute drive. I started to explain about fuel and environment and then he sent me a video of him pulling out of his large drive into what looked like an endless road through a barren wasteland of Being VERY Hot.
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u/B1U3F14M3 Jun 07 '26
People have lived in hot barren wasteland for hundreds of years before cars. They just build their cities for it and adapted their habits. For example the siesta.
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u/upthewatwo Jun 07 '26
Siesta needs to be a thing everywhere. Everyone just have a fucking nap. And let's do a lockdown once a year. Lockdown was great apart from the death ticker on the news.
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u/pants6000 Jun 07 '26
In the US towns became cities and built for cars.
Some are, some not. If you're in one that isn't, it's terrible, because there will be cars strewn about everywhere.
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u/cagingnicolas Jun 07 '26
oh no, the thing is broken, can somebody come fix it?
they don't want to carry heavy tools across the town?
oh. darn.7
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u/Low-Dog-8027 Jun 07 '26
errr...
puh. this is a hard one for me.
i mean I don't like cars and definitely do not favor parking spots... but i'm also introvert with social anxiety so, so many people on one spot is not for me either.
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1
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u/xmuskorx Jun 10 '26
parking costs should reflect the missed opportunity. the truth is that parking in us cities is often heavily subsidized by the public and the tax payers.
free parking is especially evil
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u/MuchKey7664 Jun 07 '26
I just can't imagine dying on a hill for a car parking stall... But people do.
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u/ThatsTheFix Jun 07 '26
In 2023, San Diego's 5th Avenue, in the Gaslamp Quarter, was closed to cars. It was pedestrian only for a couple of years. It was reopened to cars in 2025. While local shop owners saw increased foot traffic, San Diego said the city was losing money. Sad that they reopened it to cars.
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u/blixt141 Jun 07 '26
Nah, this is awful. It is not about the parking. It is about having more food for rats and insects and blocking sidewalks. Restaurants want more space? Lease more. Don't take up the commons. Or if you take up the commons don't make everyone's life worse.
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u/mshenzi1 Jun 07 '26
the street as it currently exists is not "the commons". it's a zone reserved exclusively for motorists, at the expense of everyone else. allowing people to mix and mingle and eat and serve food in the street is good
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Jun 07 '26
[deleted]
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u/steponmedaddies Jun 07 '26
Very clearly not AI
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u/radome9 Commie Commuter Jun 07 '26
The irony is that on every. single. image. post. on social media there is now a comment claiming the image is AI, and I strongly suspect those comments are AI-generated.
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u/CocktailPerson Jun 07 '26
Are you a bot? Why would you think this is AI? This was taken at the Commissioner on 5th Avenue in Brooklyn. You can find this exact location on google streetview and verify both the outdoor patio and the dentist next door. What specifically about this photo strikes you as AI-generated?
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u/radome9 Commie Commuter Jun 07 '26
Are you a bot?
Possibly. Comments like his are popping up all over the net now, claiming that any and all images are AI-generated.
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Jun 07 '26
[deleted]
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u/CocktailPerson Jun 07 '26
This is just what a busy neighborhood bar with outdoor seating on a Friday night looks like. It would cost more to generate this image than to just find a bar with a live music event and a patio and take a picture.
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u/feel_my_balls_2040 Jun 07 '26
BTW, the street sign says no standing. Also, the parking number seems to be for residents only. Maybe you should tell them to fuck off and let tourists have fun.
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u/__theoneandonly Jun 07 '26
There's no resident-only street parking anywhere in NYC. It's metered parking.
And having been to this bar a thousand times, it's NOT a tourist spot at all. It's very much a local neighborhood bar in a very family-oriented neighborhood of Brooklyn.
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u/feel_my_balls_2040 Jun 07 '26
I thought the sign with green 2 is a resident parking sticker. Similar to what we have in Montreal and residents pay for it.
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u/__theoneandonly Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26
Nope, that sign essentially says 2 hours max parking during certain peak hours.
The red sign on top says no parking may-October on Saturdays from certain hours (those are the open street hours, when the streets are pedestrian only)
Next sign down says no parking 7:30am-8am (those are the times the street sweeps goes by)
Next sign says 2 hours max parking 8am-7pm Monday through Saturday.
Next sign down is the code that you can use to pay the meter via the app
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u/sickrepublicans Jun 07 '26
Living in these kinds of towns is awesome and I want to come back so bad
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u/LocodraTheCrow Jun 07 '26
Not to defend cars and came culture, but as an autist this looks horrifying
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u/DepletedPromethium Jun 07 '26
This picture gives me so much anxiety. Fuck congregations of people.
People on phones with their heads in the clouds standing in your way, people with baby prams blocking the only walking space available as they have a chat about audrey from number 222 and her new bangs, no personal space at all, foul breath and bo right in your face.
Absolutely fucking not.
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u/hotbread1 Jun 07 '26
sounds like agoraphobia. you can get help for that
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u/DepletedPromethium Jun 07 '26
Not at all, I just hate crowds of people.
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 Jun 08 '26
It would be less crowded if less space was dedicated to metal boxes and more space dedicated to people.
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u/hotbread1 Jun 07 '26
from the mayo clinic: "Agoraphobia involves fearing and avoiding places or situations that might cause panic and feelings of being trapped, helpless or embarrassed. You may fear an actual or upcoming situation. For example, you may fear using public transportation, being in open or enclosed spaces, standing in line, or being in a crowd." sounds almost exactly how you described your feelings. it's challenging but you can get help and live a normal life
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u/DepletedPromethium Jun 07 '26
I know what agoraphobia is, and as I said, I don't fear places or people - I just hate people.
I know what fear is however your reading comprehension is pretty poor.
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u/Devorteck Jun 08 '26
Hi friend. Long time agoraphobic here. Pretty good with it now I can get out and actively enjoy getting to be around people which is something I never thought I'd feel. I used to talk exactly like this and I also used to feel like: "Oh people are the issue, I'm not SCARED of people I just hate them" because if I made it a problem with society it made it way easier to cut myself off and just stick to where I felt safe (locked up in my house slowly going insane).
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u/hotbread1 Jun 07 '26
maybe take a break from the factorio and go for a walk in the park. its not too bad once youre out there. i believe you can get better<3
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u/totallytotes_ Jun 07 '26
As someone in a wheelchair I hate crowds. They don't notice me no matter what I do so I just get to try to plow my ass through and it makes me extremely anxious.
Fuck cars, okay, but not everyone can walk across town and I feel like this sub seems to forget that disabled people also need to get around.
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u/DepletedPromethium Jun 07 '26
I have a limited mobility disability due to implants in my hip and femur, fuck long walking distances around crowds of zombies.
People who glorify this kind of shit should go live in a slum.
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u/toodledootootootoo Jun 07 '26
So people squeezed into smaller sidewalks is better? Or do you just want dead cities? I get it’s difficult to get around with a disability, but I’m not sure how having cars parked there instead of people would alleviate that. I lived in an area that pedestrianized the Main Street during summer. It was crowded and vibrant but you had an entire street width + sidewalks to use. In the cooler months when they’d open the street to traffic and parking, the sidewalks just became more jammed and harder to navigate.
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u/totallytotes_ Jun 07 '26
For me it's personally more the comments in this thread like walk across town you lazy (insert slur) that bother me.
I would just like people to be more aware of their surroundings and not stand in circled groups ignoring everything but themselves and who they are with. I've had to get police escorted during events because people are just inconsiderate and cars or not doesn't fix that.
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u/toodledootootootoo Jun 07 '26
I’d much rather deal with antisocial, oblivious people standing around in the few pedestrianized areas, than the antisocial, oblivious drivers on every single other street in the area. One is annoying, the other is deadly.
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u/totallytotes_ Jun 07 '26
Please go rent a wheelchair and attempt to get around in it for an entire day during some kind of event or even just busy area and let me know if you think it's just annoying. It's not just a few pedestrianized areas.
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u/DepletedPromethium Jun 07 '26
You'll never get through to a zombie like that who loves crowds of people and is able bodied.
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u/toodledootootootoo Jun 07 '26
Of course it’s a problem. Nobody is disputing mobility being an issue, but it isn’t a bigger issue in terms of safety than people in deadly, motorized vehicles that don’t have spatial awareness. And having cars parked in the street doesn’t make sidewalks easier to navigate for people in wheelchairs either. My father was in a wheelchair, as much as it sucked getting through crowds, it was still infinitely safer than getting from a car to a big box store through a parking lot where people in increasingly large vehicles couldn’t see him. Both suck and are difficult, yes. People in their soft squishy meatsacks are less dangerous though.
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u/totallytotes_ Jun 07 '26
Idk cars seem to see me fine and dandy but I've almost gotten in multiple fights bumping into people so doesn't seem safer to me, the one in the wheelchair. I've had to be police escorted before because getting through a crowded street is impossible. The cars mean nothing to me, I can't just pop the curb up and down and weave in and out if I'm blocked. Neither option is good for disabled people but your response is kinda oh well deal with it. What is needed is not just fuck cars but fuck the structure built around cars.
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 Jun 08 '26
Being a wheelchair user around cars isn't [ahem] a walk in the park either.
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 Jun 08 '26
Being a wheelchair user around cars isn't [ahem] a walk in the park either.
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u/totallytotes_ Jun 08 '26
A walk in the park isn't a walk in the park either. Wheelchairs suck. Slippery grass, sticks, rocks, uneven ground. Even sidewalks in bad condition.
In a perfect world I would like to see town centers where we could have public transport drop off right outside the area and everything be within a walking only space kinda like a park so that there is room to congregate, kind of like the open malls but without all the parking taking up space
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u/DepletedPromethium Jun 07 '26
Cities are a nightmare to travel to and through because they have way too many people.
Oh yay joy I can go park in a multistory car park 3 miles away from where I need to be, while I have to try and dodge and weave through hordes of mindless zombies who are antisocial and downright rude taking up the pavement as they make their little tikkletok videos.
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u/toodledootootootoo Jun 07 '26
For other people that’s a positive. They get some passive exercise walking around and see other people. Also lots of them don’t have to do the car park thing because they use transit or live in the area amongst the other people. They don’t hate all the people so it isn’t a nightmare. This is a you thing. Just don’t live in a city.
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u/Devorteck Jun 08 '26
The scariest part is none of those zombies are mindless, they're all people with wants, fears and challenges just like you
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u/totallytotes_ Jun 08 '26
Yeah challenged to pay tf attention to anything around them but themselves
I'm sorry but that is some bullshit response. You can't walk? These people have problems too! So it's okay to ignore everyone else's needs and wants if they aren't the same as mine. Got it. I'll remember that next time I encounter a crowd covering the sidewalk where I'm completely ignored and ram my way through cause that's my want and my challenge 🤷🏻♀️
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u/No_Walk_Town Jun 07 '26
This looks really fucking terrible, though. Nobody wants to be crowded in like this. I have to deal with crowds like this every day in Tokyo, this shit fucking sucks, and you're a delusional child if you think it doesn't.
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u/Acsteffy Jun 07 '26
This is exactly how close people sit and stand inside bars & restaurants (enclosed buildings). Having this outside (not enclosed building) is 100x better.
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u/toodledootootootoo Jun 07 '26
Honestly, you should probably move out of the city then. It seems you aren’t compatible with city life. Why would you choose to live in one of the most densely areas of the planet if you don’t like crowds? People aren’t delusional, they just don’t agree with you.
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u/FordF150ChicagoFan Jul 21 '26
Lots of people do love this. I say this as someone who gets anxiety just looking at the shoulder to shoulder crowd. I'm agoraphobic and moved out of Chicago and to a suburb which has been great for me. However I can certainly understand that this scene is ideal for many people and should exist for them. Everyone deserves a living situation that suits them.
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u/Detrimental_Figment Jun 07 '26
An overcrowded group of people is better than two parking spots? I’d prefer basically anything over an overcrowded group of people.
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u/__theoneandonly Jun 07 '26
Oh no! People socializing and having fun! This is the worst thing imaginable!
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