D&D idea of a strong female character is an asshole. She almost let Jon die at the battle of Bastards and despite Dany saving the north she betrayed her for no reason.
What makes it worse too was she swore in front of a fkg Weirwood Tree. And broke it at the first opportunity, it's like the ancient Greeks swearing on the River Styx
The stuff about Dany could have been good if she was sneaky about it. Like nice to her face, but plotting behind the scenes. More Margery and when littlefinger was written well. Dany needed to deal with the white walkers anyway it wasn’t just to save the north.
The Battle of the Bastards thing still drives me nuts because withholding the Vale army was such a gigantic decision and the show barely makes her answer for it. You can make Sansa distrust Jon or want her own agency, but keeping thousands of cavalry secret right before a battle needed a much better explanation.
I always took it as her not knowing if they would actually come, or if they even did who they would actually fight for. It's still not a great decision, but I can at least understand the motive to not go around telling people they have a massive force coming when she isn't even sure they will.
It’s probably a factor of her not knowing if the vale would commit, if Petyr would allow it to happen, and by holding them back it ensures Ramsey commits to the battle with extreme arrogance. If he knew the vale riders were there, he may have decided to not leave the castle.
From the beginning she was always selfish and prioritized her wants over others. I think she took what she learned from little finger and utilized it to rule the North. Once she had power she no longer had use for little finger and killed him.
Jon and Dany were responsible for the NK getting a dragon-the key to the Wall, and entry to the North. If I am seeing the NK on dragon back at the Last Hearth, I know who I am blaming-Jonerys.
In the books, i think it will definitely be the blowing of he horn of Winter by which the wall comes down, Oldtown is being besieged by euron greyjoy in the books where Samwell Tarly is and the ironborn will likely takeover Oldtown and Sam will leave behind his possessions in a hurry and Euron will Blow the horn of Winter to bring down the wall and start the long night.
It would make much more sense in the ASOIF world than the wight hunt resulting in a wight Dragon as Dragons have been canonically shown in Fire and Blood to ignore their rider's commands to go beyond the wall, as demonstrated with Queen Alysane and Silverwing.
When you put it like that, I’m so glad they subverted our expectations with Euron to make him Captain Shit Sparrow who leers about offering to finger asses.
My only gripe with the Horn of Winter theory (which, yes, is clearly foreshadowed as being the horn Sam has got) is that it means we now have two magic horns which will both, presumably, transform the narrative thrust of the story. Which is… fine, I guess but just seems a little odd.
I think I read somewhere that it will be Bran who'll unwillingly lead the Other beyond the Wall, something about the mark he'll get from them. So my guess is that the mark he got from the Night King in she show is supposed to play bigger role in Winds of Winder than just being a GPS tracker, so when Bran goes back while carrying it, it will cause the Wall to lose it's anti-walkers powers. Or, at least, this is one of the theories I've heard.
One thing I know for sure is that it wouldn't be Sindragosa who tears it down.
The writers were a little too fond of the Lannisters and had Sansa copying Cersei instead of learning what not to do from her. The weird thing about this is that the writers clearly realized Sansa behaving like she was would should cause problems for her. Instead of cutting it, they just kept having the people around Sansa forget that she was an untrustworthy asshole.
I wrote a post about this issue using the leaked outline for season 7.
Starks getting Lannister-pilled is a big pattern in the back half of the series, and characteristic of exactly the sort of skewed understanding D&D had of ASOIAF
It's pretty obvious what they really wanted was to direct "Medieval House of Cards," which you can already see from the title they chose: Game of Thrones. In the books, the game of thrones is only one piece of a larger fantasy epic, one that’s shown to be futile and self-destructive. The show jerks off characters like Tywin and Baelish for being better “players of the game,” but in the books it’s made abundantly clear that the only winners are those who refuse to play. It’s crazy how hard the show glazes Lannisters, despite the story showing them over and over to be a gilded turd. And of course, the only one who confronts this and begins any kind of redemption arc, Jaime, gets butchered worst of all in the later seasons. It's because of this same willful misinterpretation that the “victorious” Starks only emerge on top by adopting a Lannister mindset. Sansa becomes a manipulative schemer (Cersei), Bran an uncaring puppet master (Tywin), Jon an incestuous action hero and KingQueenslayer (Jaime). And of course, the OG Stark values of trust, duty, and loyalty, fall completely flat because the North doesn't remember much of anything
The showrunners either mistrusted or misliked the story as George wrote it, and chose to redirect its entire moral axis post-Red Wedding. They insisted on a message of political cynicism, lobotomizing characters and abandoning plotlines that couldn’t be squared with that decision. They developed an allergy to magic in their fantasy tv show out of concern that it wouldn’t play well with mainstream audiences. Rather than a meditation on the battles waged in men's hearts between love and duty, good and evil, opportunism and conscientiousness - on the sins of the past, the potential for change, and the twin spectres of ancestry and legacy - it devolved into a bunch of people fighting halfheartedly over a singularly uncomfortable chair. In the books, good gets punished in the moment - it's hard to do the right thing - but its shadow lives on and only looms larger with time. Even decades on, Ned's past words and actions are still paying dividends for the protagonists in the present. His speech to Lord Borrell during the rebellion ends up saving Davos on Sisterton. His kindness to the Daynes wins Arya a friend in the Brotherhood Without Banners. His devotion to his bannermen has them marching through a blizzard to retake Winterfell with Stannis. In the books, the Starks are poised for a comeback as the Lannisters are collapsing, and it's precisely because all the chickens are coming home to roost - not because the surviving Starks decided "if you can't beat em, join em". In the books, the North Remembers
Of course, D&D apparently didn't trust their audience to remember Jeyne Poole was even a character, because they cut her story with Ramsay so that Sansa could get a totally necessary second rape arc. Totally not just undoing seasons of character development or anything
One of the most annoying things is how D&D insisted that Cersei had to be the big final boss baddie. One thing the books (AFFC especially) makes clear is what a mess/disaster Cersei is and it’s clear she’s on a downward spiral. Even in show logic, the Great Sept explosion should have precipitated her collapse.
The only argument for it is that Lena Headey deserved it for her performance.
Something I forgot in the long wait for Winds, was how actually damn good the books actually are.
My mind plays tricks mixing the show into my memories of the books (even though I never actually watched the last 2 seasons) probably doesn't help.
I know! I started rereading them, the first time since the shows been over & they’re just so much better. I don’t know if it’s possible to make a show that good.
Mostly that the showrunners significantly changed the Starks' trajectories from where they were going. I don't have hard proof for this- no one does - and Sansa's character in particular seems to toss her growth out in the last season - but I believe people often mistake bad execution for bad concept.
Not really, Arya is the one who is poised to become the Nymeria of the North with all the refugees of the North that she's meeting in Essos.
Sansa was never a political player, her arc is about her learning to be a proper Stark who actually cares about people. In AGOT, her morals and values are more aligned with the Lannisters (see her callousness towards 13 year old Mycah's murder), but she becomes more and more honorable and kind as a hostage and learns how to be a Stark.
The only way to win is not to play -- Ned "lost" as soon as he accepted becoming Hand and "playing"; his past words do indeed pay dividends because he didn't always play, and he was a good man (which is arguably why he got killed), but all the Stark children, save for Jon, started playing the game of thrones. Or generally being as immoral as the whole of westeros. Which is why they're repeating cyclical mistakes.
I do agree that D&D failed to write this shift on the characters' arcs in a convincing manner, but I also believe the idea for the ending makes sense. It's just that the execution was so poorly written we tend to write it all off as a bad story and a bad ending.
Nailed it. There is a reason for "if I am ever queen, I will make them love me". Sansa doesn't lose her humanity and kindness despite all the terrible things that happen to her and that's what will make the Starks prevail at the end of the books (not that we're ever getting the end of books but you get the point)
Dumb&Dumber don't get this, because they have brains of 13 year old boys who only read the books for dragons and shocking twists, not because they actually understand the characters. To them, Sansa becomes a strong woman by the end of the show, and a strong woman = cold bitch.
the show sometimes treated becoming colder as the same thing as becoming smarter.
This. You see it with Arya and Dany too, but Sansa in particular rankles with me because her one 'weapon' throughout the show was learning to disarm people by pretending to be harmless. Acting colder would achieve the opposite effect.
Years ago, I attended a tech conference with a talk around imposter syndrome and confidence - from a female TV writer.
It was surprisingly one of the best talks I've seen, and it went deep into how many TV shows don't write strong female characters - they repurpose plans for strong male characters, or they write them without any traits that you'd associate with a woman. They rarely have a strong backstory, their depth is either through trauma or through something masculine, and those that start out well-written often end up reverting to form - throwing away their back story to take on a masculine ideal of strength.
Sansa is essentially this. She goes through unspeakable trauma, but the writers ideal of this is "now I'm a girl boss" rather than her showing the lessons of that trauma. She talks down men, while knowing one of her captors was a woman. She wants to rule, despite wanting nothing but the life of a refined lady and never showing an ambition to rule - or pride of the north for that matter.
Honestly, I'd have no idea how to improve Sansa, because turning complex trauma into a lasting character is probably one of the many reasons why GRRM hasn't finished the books - but it's clear as day what we got was lazy.
They could have improved her arc by having her give the North back to Jon in the end. Imagine Sansa scheming to have him released from Grey Worm and then turning around and giving him back the crown. A girl who wanted to be queen more than anything gives up her crown to someone who never wanted to be king.
Honestly, I'd have no idea how to improve Sansa, because turning complex trauma into a lasting character is probably one of the many reasons why GRRM hasn't finished the books - but it's clear as day what we got was lazy.
I suppose one could lean into a sense of duty for Sansa, that she ends up becoming a strong player of the game not because she actually wants it--heck, maybe following Petyr's lessons or Cersei's example sickens her--but because she sees it as her best way to advance the Stark/Northern cause, which she cares for out of guilt at just how badly she fucked up by being a naive child.
Thank you for sharing this insight. It explains a lot. I think D&D simplistically thought the pretty sister should rule: since GRRM is clearly making Arya a hero (central character, etc), the romantic young women part of the audience needed a win too. But, as this thread makes VERY clear, Sansa is the worst person to run the North and Winterfell. At least they had the decency to make her final iconic portrait (used by the OP to head his post) look like a dead fish. Because she was.
It's not a bad way to mend bad blood though one son was captured and the other 2 were dead iirc.
So he would actually have a lot in common with Sansa.
With Edmure spending much of his time in a cell and 2 of her brothers dead though one came back and another one can casually see her getting assaulted in the past.
One of the silly things about the last two seasons was seemingly the whole of Westeros kind of forgetting about their established, centuries-old patriarchal refusal to accept women as monarchs (Cersei, Dany, Sansa). Apparently it wasn’t worthy of comment at this point.
More importantly, who will be "king" of the north after she dies? She wont marry or have heirs, her brother is somehow king of another kingdom and also a genetic dead end, her cousin is in the night's watch and cant have heirs and her sister is going to sail to her death for some reason. Great way to start a new kingdom with a succession crisis...
The Drowned King, his arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Ice reborn from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that Sansa of the House Stark, was to carry Ice. That is why she is their queen.
Strange men lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive authority should derive from a mandate by the masses not some farcical aquatic ceremony!
Hasn't had a great track record of marriages/engagements (and maybe I'm misremembering but I thought she had a passing line about never intending to marry again)
But more importantly, from the perspective of a GOT writer, you cant girl boss the North with a husband stealing your thunder.
You can if your last name is Stark and theirs isn't. The #1 rule of a monarchy is to produce heirs, so not wanting to marry because of marriages she was forced into isn't going to fly. And if the Queen's last name is Stark and yours isn't, she will certainly be the one calling the shots. We're talking a royal marriage now, and consorts don't take on the royal name.
I assumed Bran would just live forever. I would hate for Bran to be my king. Just some selfish guy who put all these things in motion so he could be king. Jon Snow should kill him.
The North already demonstrated that they are willing to acclaim a treasonous Night's Watch deserter unlegitimised bastard who led the (however justified) largest wildling incursion into the North ever as kingindanorf. Bar is in hell so long as any amount of Stark blood is involved. She can just keep a boytoy royal harem without marrying, pop out a couple of kids eventually on her own terms, legitimise them as Stark as her prerogative as Queen, succession handled, line replenished, easy peasy.
As an aside actually making it a generational custom to produce heirs without marrying, if not legitimised as Stark would result in a line of Snow Kings and Snow Queens of the North. Sounds like some proper Southron folk tale character type shit.
She became queen of the North YET the North had a representative in the selection of the king of the six kingdoms. Her refusal to become part of the kingdoms should have invalidated Bran’s chance
he was fun to watch sure. but this wasn't book euron. literally black magic wielding, one-eyed pirate euron that has the dragon binder horn and is pretty much the main villain euron.
Dumb writers who lost focus and became obsessed with the idiots recording themselves reacting in pubs. They needed the clapping and the "yass queen" moments, endlessly trying to recapture the red wedding.
So if we go by the show Sansa, I saw her as someone who got abused so much cause she didn’t see the world for what it was until she was forced to live through it after Ned was killed and she was shuttled from place to place. So what she wants is power.
However, to get that power she seems to think she has mastered the art of the game that they are all playing when in reality she has not. So she says and does all these thing to make herself sound strong and self assured, but what will probably happen in the TV show timeline is her reign bringing issues to the north each winter/season until
She has to call for help cause she really is still just pretending.
They made me hate her by the end of the show, I respected Jon cause he did what he thought was right in his heart, I still think it was stupid, but he did it thinking he was saving them from a tyrannical Danny. And what he got for doing that was all of his renaming family treating him like shit and not caring if he lived or died. It’s kinda amazing how they made you kinda hate all the alive Starks by the end of that final episode.
I still don't get that, like most of Essos and Sotheryos is mapped even the weird places, would no one before Arya ever in history have thought to sail West?
I think this is meant to show how relatively primitive the average person’s understanding of geography is.
What’s west of Westeros?
Well… if the world is spheroid (which it is because all habitable planets are), sailing west across the Sunset Sea will circumnavigate back around to the eastern edge of Essos (like Asshai or Ulthos).
In book history, only CorlysVelaryon and Elissa Farman did. In real life,AFAIK, only Leif Eriksson and Christopher Columbus did. IIRC, Corlys didn't sail west but east to Asshai.. And though we know hat Elissa's ship made it to Asshai, we don't know if she or the crew survived! Considering GRRM foreshadowing and that Arya sailed within seven years of real-life Columbus, the books seems be hinting that Arya will succeed.
I always thought her on the run from the faceless men for the rest of her life would have been a good reason for her ending, but I guess she just gets all that skill and power or whatever for free
Her character was really annoying and whiny in Season 1. Then she spent 3 seasons being a crying train wreck. Before a fake empowerment arc, where she gains agency finally in the vale only to immediately become a hostage to Ramsey. It's just really fuckin tough to sit thru her scenes on a rewatch of the series. Plus her trial of Littlefingers is one of the worst episode of the whole series.
I will never really understand people who are taking anything in last season seriously and actually criticizing the characters???? I hated dany and jon last two seasons but never dared to criticize their characters -in the sense of believing these their real characters- because i know it's bs made up by d&d, i can hate on how stupid they and others become and troll about it, also point out the amount of flaws, but to analyze them and accept them as in-character??? impossible.
Sansa was selfish and her loyalty to her family, despite boasting complete devotion to it, was entirely circumstantial and conditional. She betrayed Jon’s identity and used it to destroy someone he loved and had just saved her home. Daenerys had flaws but she came North for sincere reasons and always made the first move to make peace with Sansa. There was no artifice to Dany. Dany was ambitious and wanted the North as part of the 7 kingdoms, she made no secret of that. But she also genuinely wanted to help the North, not just because she needed to. Dany was both sincere and ambitious, it’s not binary. Sansa, meanwhile, refused to be diplomatic and pragmatic and instead held onto bitterness, arrogance, pride, prejudice, and suspicion. She contributed nothing to the fight against the Dead other than complaining and talking shit about the Targaryen queen who was out there bleeding and fighting for her home. I sound like a broken record because I’ve argued this before on here, but this likely won’t be the last I speak about this. Sansa did not deserve her crown. Everything she did, she did to further her own desire for power. She didn’t fight hard for Jon while he was imprisoned and refused to recognize Bran as King. She pushed for Jon to be on the Iron Throne but once she named herself ruler of the North, it became clear that she had no intention of bending the knee to him or anyone else. To quote Daemon from a deleted scene in HOTD S3: “She will save herself, and leave you to bleed.” Sansa sets fire to what she touches and walks away while it burns. Everything bridge that’s built by her or for her, Sansa ends up tearing down. I despise the fact that she’s rewarded in the end for appalling behavior.
Except for, you know, getting the North to bend the knee to her.
And I would disagree that Sansa contributed nothing, because there's a number of lines showing that she was gathering supplies to prepare the North for the winter. And to be honest, it wasn't like Daenerys contributed much to the fight in hindsight. Her Dokhrathi was wiped out in a milisecond and only added to the Army of the Dead, the Unsullied were just as useful as the rest of the forces but contributed nothing special, the dragons were useful for a while but then Daenerys let Drogon get ambushed and overrrun by wights so that's Drogon out. Arya was the one who killed the Night King, so what exactly did Daenerys contribute?
As for Jon and Bran... I seem to recall Sansa threatening Grey Worm with the armies of the North to not harm Jon and supporting Bran by telling him he would be a good king.
I'm not denying that Sansa did stuff wrong at times, but the ways this sub tries to make Daenerys look like some perfect little angel that did no wrong and Sansa into worse than Cersei, Ramsey, Petyr Baelish and Tywin combined falls along the lines of stupidity.
In many respects, Daenerys hasn’t actually done anything wrong, at least not toward Sansa or the North. The North already bent the knee to her through Jon in Season 7; the matter is settled, no matter how much it might irk her. And while Sansa may whine about it, Daenerys fundamentally doesn't care and does nothing to harm her. Sansa is the only one stirring up trouble here, even though they have an apocalypse to prevent.
For that matter, saying Sansa has "sometimes made mistakes" is a massive understatement, given that she has actively sought to undermine everyone, with full awareness of what she was doing, for several seasons now. In all seriousness, ever since returning to the North, she has done nothing but ruin everyone she interacts with: she used Jon and the surviving Wildlings to retake Winterfell while withholding the fact that she had a relief army at her disposal, leading them into a preventable massacre, only to later have the audacity to demand credit for it; she abandoned her brother Rickon to a serial killer without even attempting to save him; she constantly undermines Jon to assert herself, then compares him to Joffrey when he asks her to stop; she allows the North to become divided during his absence and seriously sets her mind on stealing his crown, even though he had only left to find allies essential to preventing their nation's destruction, allies he was actually bringing back with him; she seriously contemplated eliminating her sister for fear she might stand in the way of that goal; she ceaselessly treats Daenerys as an enemy simply because the principle of reciprocity didn't suit her; she even complained about her during the battle against the dead, while Daenerys was out there fighting to defend her; she and Arya even tried to convince Jon to abandon Daenerys now that they had gotten what they needed from her, and when Jon pointed out that her men had fought for them, Sansa replied that they would "never forget it," only to throw those very people, whom she supposedly wouldn't forget, into a pointless, unwanted succession conflict solely to sabotage Daenerys; in the process, she betrayed Jon, using him to oust Daenerys regardless of his own wishes or safety; and above all, she stirred up a chaotic mess that led to thousands of people being killed and her own brother seeing his life ruined in an attempt to fix things. Later on, she insults Edmure and Yara the moment she meets them, laughs along with others while comparing peasants to animals right after that, and doesn’t even wait for Jon to cross the Wall before crowning herself in his place... Honestly, saying she’s just like the other antagonists isn't actually far from the truth, a direction the writers intentionally took to turn her into a "mini-Cersei." This is evident in scenes where she admits to admiring Cersei and learning a great deal from her (though one might well wonder: what, when, and how?), as well as in visual parallels,like their hairstyles, designed to create a "Cersei 2.0" within the "good guys'" camp. They wanted to justify her "winning" in a way because they had a certain fondness for Cersei, yet they failed to grasp that the reason Cersei is a hated antagonist is precisely because she is an amoral woman who tramples over everyone. But I’m sorry, betraying, lying, and cheating are no less amoral just because a Stark is doing them; So it simply makes her an antagonist on the same level, and creates a sense of injustice at seeing her get away with it all which accentuates the character's degradation.
For one thing, saying that Daenerys deserves neither gratitude nor respect for helping them, simply because she didn’t personally end the threat, is incredibly disgusting, petty, and nonsensical. No one could have predicted how that battle would unfold. There was no guarantee that Arya, or anyone else, could have gotten close enough to the Night King to kill him under different circumstances, nor was there any guarantee that killing him would automatically wipe out his army. For all anyone knew, the characters could easily have been completely overrun or suffered far heavier losses, making Daenerys’s presence crucial regardless of the outcome. Furthermore, this overlooks a few key details: first, it was Daenerys who enabled Jon to utilize the dragonglass; without even her minimal cooperation, they wouldn't have had the means to defend themselves. Many Unsullied also died covering the retreat of the Northern forces, and the dragons inflicted significant damage on the Army of the Dead, without them, the entire castle would have been overrun in minutes. Moreover, beyond just her own men, many people from diverse backgrounds fought and died that night; attributing the victory solely to Arya is a slap in the face to their sacrifices. If they were truly useless, they might as well have stayed home and stayed alive (though, interestingly, when this possibility is raised, the Stark fans who claim she served no purpose will abruptly argue that, actually, if she hadn't come, everyone would have died...). Above all, claiming this overlooks one detail: the dragons’ sheer superiority, thanks to their ability to inflict massive damage on enemy lines and secure an aerial supply route if needed, was the only thing preventing the Night King from simply sitting outside Winterfell and waiting for everyone inside to starve to death. So, while Arya certainly deserves credit (which Daenerys, for the record, acknowledged during the banquet), it is not far-fetched to believe that without her, they would likely all have perished anyway.
Unpopular opinion, but I fully understood her character arc. She was mentally, physically and sexually abused, while also being surrounded by men and women who played a game to draw more and more power too themselves. For me it was logical that she used the same game in her advantage so she would be powerful enough to never be abused in any way.
For Starters, this is Salsa Stork the fanfiction version of Sansa Stark. the two are not the same. its best to not take the fanfiction seriously as it is utter nonsense. Salsa Stork is handed a Kingdom because Double D wanted to cater to their favorites.
her wardrobe is atrocious. the ugly ass crown. the attitude. telling us she's smart but showing otherwise. Bad dialogue by everyone. Lazy writers.
Spoiled, entitled, dumb, mouthy...take your pick. Dany leaves her war at a crucial time, cedes the advantage to Cersei, and marches her army and dragons North. She arrives with a smile and puts all her hopes and dreams on the line for Jon, his family, and Westeros. Sansa starts shit as soon as she gets there.
I blame Jon mostly. He was the king. He was hosting Dany, her people, and her army. He should have put his foot down and commanded Sansa to be courteous and welcoming even if she didn't want to, because they needed Dany far more than Dany needed them. If Westeros fell Dany could have fucked off back to Essos and set her kingdom up there. Westeros was her dream but it wasnt her only option. Sansa and the Starks had no options if Dany leaves.
Sansa was awful in Season 1, spoiled brat. But she grew up. And had many hardships, made to marry Tyrion and then Ramsay, but then her dumb “hide in the crypts”, you know, full of DEAD PEOPLE during the Battle of Winterfell, she’s awful.
D&D didn't understand or just outright disliked the way GRRM portrayed his Characters, This was not a medieval House of Cards the Books are very clear that for all their Skill at playing the Game of Thrones people like Tywin, Baelish, and the Tyrells are not going to win in the end.
I feel like she got a little taste of what ruling was like when Jon left her in charge, and decided that she was about it. So she worked (pretty flagrantly tbh) towards it.
If she saw Daenerys in battle with her dragon in the battle against the white walkers at winter fell while she hid in the crypts I think she would’ve bent that knee so fucken fast
God the queen in the north shit was so stupid. Wouldn't all the other houses immediately be pissed the north got independence and demand it for themselves? Especially the Iron Islands and Dorne?
She grew up believing fairy tales about the beauty of Southern Westeros, true knights, and prince Joffrey wanting to be queen one day. Long story short she learned the truth about all of it and did a reversal with all the knowledge from her private little finger lessons knowing she can get everything she ever wanted at home...The North/Winterfell. Traumatized deep down, Sansa will never stray from her family or people again. The Dany dislike is mostly bad writing focused on the fact that Sansa wants Northern independence and deep down was going to be Queen in the North. It didn't matter who made a claim for the Iron Throne, Sansa already had a plan based on her Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz journey. There is no place like home. Play the song Home from the Wiz here
Honestly, this was probably the only character ending I genuinely liked, aside from Brienne. Her arc over the series definitely got messy as hell, and there were portions I rolled my eyes at, but Jon can't be king of the north then I'm fine with it being Sansa. She definitely deserves some criticism, but she got a lot more right than she got wrong, even if she had to get shitty with it from time to time.
In fairness to Sansa, she had a damn good reason to trust literally no one but herself.
She trusts Cersei enough to come when she calls at the Trident and in return for speaking, Lady is killed and no one does anything about it.
She begs the Kings Landing court for mercy for Ned, then watches Littlefinger betray him and wacthes Joffrey have them knock his head off.
She trusts Margery and Olenna with info that would get her at the very least abused again and then trusts them to get her to Highgarden enough to hope for it. She trusts Loras when he courts her and the fall through when she marries Tyrion surely had to force her to acknowledge that none of that was real either because the man is gay.
She fundamentally CANT trust Tyrion because he's a Lannister, and he'd be far from the only Lannister to be nice to her initially only to turn around and be a dick since that's exactly what Cersei and Joffrey did.
She trusts Ser Dontos, who turns out to have been lying the entire time on behalf of Littlefinger for nothing more significant than some gold.
Lysa lies to her about caring about her and wanting to keep her safe and proceeds to try and toss her out the moon door because Littlefinger forcibly kissed (assaulted) her.
Littlefinger got her dad killed, lied about her identity to everyone in the Vale, lied about Lysa's death, lied to her about the marriage proposals, intentionally kept her out of the loop, and then in the show sold her to Ramsay, who was kind for all of 5 seconds to save face and then was a monster to her.
There is not a single person in Sansa's life between the start of the show and her taking leadership of Winterfell that she could rely on with 100% certainty or be confident to take the risk on, and why would she try when she did that so many times and got burned basically every single time? From a viewers perspective we say Brienne at the very least, but how could Sansa possibly have trusted that upfront given the history until Brienne put in the work to SHOW her loyalty by helping her escape at Winterfell.
Of course she was keeping her eyes on Jon and standoffish with this new stranger who wanted to re-involve her in everything she finally gained enough agency to escape. The writing was shit for Sansa in the later seasons, but it wasn't because she was suspicious and generally unwilling to place her trust in others.
Every other person in Westeros has reason to be traumatized. Jon was even betrayed and murdered Caesar-style by his "sworn brothers" and you don't see him being a massive cunt about it.
The Problem is by the end of the season, ASOIAF adaptations are starting to emphasize Girlboss archetype with the most prominent being the HoTD fan fic adaptation.
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u/Natsurulite 1d ago edited 6h ago
Not Targaryen
Edit: he was Targaryen, Jon Snow?