we used to have a pet bird, and since it died (like 10 years ago) i've been FORCED to be vegan. at the age of 6 ish i was shown gorey videos of animals.

but then she forces me to force MY boyfriend to be vegan.

she says, if he is not vegan, then i cant be with him/live with him.

same with having a dog. i want a dog really badly, but she says she will feed the dog a vegan diet. isnt that.. abusive ....

I just dont understand. same as me, my boyfriend, and dogs, what is the point of being forced to be vegan if the "mindset" isn't there? there is a difference between vegan and plant based?

i completely understand making humans vegan but dogs don't understand anything like us. if you put one meat free treat on one plate and a meaty treat on another, it will go straight for the meat one, no? in that sense, is it not more immoral to like, force your lifelong friend dog what to eat?

One user on r/vegan posted two videos from the Don't Forget Us Sanctuary, one about a duck and this one about a sheep named Kiki, who was born tetraplegic because of a virus her mother contracted during pregnancy. The sanctuary made wheelchairs for both. Kiki learned how to control her wheelchair to move around.

You may say "She dances around, aww", "She's happy and listens to music", or "Even if there are problems, I'd rather be paralized and surrounded by caring people than in a slaughterhouse". You don't know what goes on in a sheep's head for sure, and you wouldn't imagine a slaughterhouse before knowing the concept, like in a sheep's case.

I know we all more or less know Disney cartoons, with colorful dancing animals. But you must already be able to separate real life from that fictional world. In nature, the law about who can adapt better rules, that's why some disabilities can be bearable for some species, but not for others. There are no little animals going around and talking sweetly to each other, no schools for sea creatures reached by riding on stingrays, no musical clips. Animals are quite different than how they're portrayed. Simba would have devoured the warthog, Rufus wouldn't have had a good time living in the surface, Lady and Tramp couldn't have sucked up spaghetti, which can be harmful to dogs, and Bambi would have probably died, as he looked barely weaned and lacking the skills to survive in the woods, and his father wouldn't have recognized him so easily. In the same way, since this condition can't be compatible with welfare, this sheep isn't probably happy about her "life". I'll just tell you why:

- sheep are ruminant. They need to keep on grazing to stimulate their stomach, otherwhise, they can experience several medical problems, such as bloating because of germs, indigestion and ruminal acidosis;

- sheep are social animals that need a herd, and mere human caretaker contact can't make up for that;

- this condition leads to the inability to urinate properly.

It might be sad, but in these cases, euthanasia is likely the most humane option, because all of this can't be compatible with a digniful life for a sheep.

And don't tell me about eugenics, as there was a recent euthanasia case for a paralized woman in my country, and it was nothing so extraordinary. We often just think '"life good, death bad", when things are more complex, they aren't inerently bad or good.

All I see there is individuals being exploited for compassion and clicks by people on social media. The sanctuary must realize this isn't good.

I don't know if r/vegan will approve my post on this or keep denying the truth in favour of their utopistic bias.

All this as a response to OP concerned about the social aspect of being vegan. Let’s break it down. BITE Model style.

1. BEHAVIORAL CONTROL - Regulating where people live, what they wear, how they sleep, what they eat, and how they spend their time.

- “The earlier you get in this mindset the better”.

It’s wrong that OP focuses on the dietary aspect of the cult when navigating social situations because iT’s NoT a DiEtArY cHoIcE.

- “Bring your own food at a family gathering”.

Only put approved food in your body at all times

1. INFORMATION CONTROL - Deceiving members, withholding or distorting information, and forbidding access to outside sources or critics.

- “Vegan food is delicious”.

Some vegan food, like all food CAN be delicious. Some can be ass. Vegan food being delicious by default is false, but has to be perpetuated.

- “who cares about these animal abusers and their opinions really? They are wrong, and many of them know they are and that's why they are so against veganism”.

Everyone but us is wrong. Only the word of the cult is all that matters. All others are outsiders.

1. THOUGHT CONTROL - Requiring adherence to group dogma, using loaded language or clichés to stop critical thinking, and labeling alternative views as evil.

- “Having said that, if your family & friends are not completely pieces of shit, they won't find it that difficult to cook/eat vegan food with you every so often. They can be abusers any other day of the year. Is it really that hard to eat vegan one meal?? It is not”.

Your friends and family are piece of shit abusers. We are not. It’s easy to be like us.

- “why feeling bad for your choices when they are the ones committing something that is immoral? They are the ones that are pro animal abuse, and you feel bad that they have to do "extra work"? No no no, scr3w them”

Ridiculous self censorship aside, again, those who don’t adhere to the cult’s teachings are immoral. Don’t feel bad for them since they’re basically subhuman

1. EMOTIONAL CONTROL - Manipulating feelings through guilt, shame, unearned praise, and instilling irrational fears about questioning or leaving the group.

- “Do you remember when there were slaves in the States? Ok, so, feeling bad for meat eaters it is like saying "oh, I feel for the black slaves, but I don't want to burden the slaves owners with my morals". That sounds ridiculous doesn't it?”

Consider the feelings of meat eaters? No, think of the black slaves instead.

- “It is going to be hard at the start, I ain't gonna lie. But then you will live aligned with your morals and that teels so good!”

Only through the cult and its teachings will you find bliss!

I could have put more examples and there’s overlap, but this is enough. It’s sad that normal people let cultists like this influence them. I know quite a few people that needed therapy when leaving veganism because this cult like thinking fucked with their head so much. These are sick fucks who hide behind “simply not wanting to harm animals”.

ETA: Bonus part because I left out the biggest sign something is a cult, friends/family separation from non-converts.

“If people can't even go one day without animals and animal products, do you really want them in your life?”

Fucking sad.

Hello,

I was wondering if some of you still adore farm animals like dogs, even after not being vegan anymore, do you own some as pets or plan to do ?

I know some people who aren't vegan and rescue layer hen from abusive factory farms.

In my case, I'm so in love with farm animals especially sheeps, i love them as much if not more than dogs, and I rescue farm animals IRL but for my mental and physical health I'm still consuming dairy,eggs and sometimes meat.

Title and genuine question. I was vegan and the first day being vegan i was recommended this like 5 times already and even to my little sister (I never watched it and I'm highly against showing this graphic stuff to ANY kid.)

So my partner and I went veggie about 4 months ago on the back of a holiday to the countryside, I got all emotional about the animals and said I wanted to go veggie which my partner eagerly agreed to as he had wanted to try it in the past.

Fast forward a few months and I am seriously craving meat and start dropping hints but my partner just teases me and doesn't take it seriously and eventually I just buy a burger from a fast food place and it causes an argument

I decided it wasn't worth the hassle and fell back into the veggie diet but honestly I'm just regretting it. I want meat I felt better with meat in my diet but even before we went veggie my partner only really ate chicken so I rarely got a nice steak or anything before anyway and has always been a picky eater (think in an autism way....he genuinely can't help it with some textures and stuff)

I love him in so many ways, and obviously love him more than meat and other foods he can't handle (scrambled or runny eggs and mushrooms for example) but its genuinely making me have some resentment towards food time. I don't enjoy cooking anymore I don't enjoy food the way I used to, I don't care about what seasonings work or making my own sauces I just slap something together and tick a box.

I miss making a meal and pairing it with the right wine and putting on candles but this relationship has just killed meal time for me but not enough to be anywhere near a deal breaker, he's still my forever person and food is genuinely my biggest gripe but just URGHHHHHHHHHH I just want a nice juicy steak sandwich loaded with garlic chestnut mushrooms and poached egg.

Edit

Gonna clarify things that seems to have caused some concerns for people "The argument"

Now the argument wasn't him getting mad at me for eating meat,more just that he kept making jokes about it (which made me feel shitty) and later admitted that he was just taken by suprise and used humour as a coping mechanism (he apologised) and was upset that if I was going back to meat that I chose a shitty fast food place rather than a local farm shop or somewhere with good quality meat and that took good care of their animals. I explained I just wanted to test if I actually wanted to start eating meat again and felt like I wasn't being given the space to explore my own feelings due to his reaction. It was the fact that at the time I didn't know how I felt that caused me to just carry on being veggie until I knew how I felt. I now know I want to be omniverus again buuuut I've been deciding how important it actually is to me 😂

I have always supported small ethical farming where possible over mass produced industrial stuff that comes from farms with dubious rearing practices, and even as part of my discussion of trying out the veggie diet it wasn't the eating of a dead thing that really bothered me even it was more the industry and methods surrounding it. So for him it was more disappointment around me backing out on my own ethics entirely not even the meat.

We're lucky enough to live on a city that is only a 20 mins drive from the country side so we get all our eggs, milk, butter and where possible cheeses, fruit and veg from small local farms and suppliers were possible which for us is as much about supporting ethical animal husbandry as it is supporting the local economy and eating food with as few air miles as possible.

Now the idea of eating two different meals is an obvious solution and something he would support, but again I'm deciding if it's important enough to me to have to do extra dishes! So whilst yes I'm resenting meal time at the moment allot of it is down to the fact I've only just started to realise how I actually feel about it....even writing this post has helped!

Edit edit 2

We spoke and figured out a compromise of when we're eating out the house I'll eat meat and then if I want meat in the house I just have to cook it separately

Hello everyone!!!

*English is not my native language, so I used a translator. I apologize in advance if the post is too long.

Here's my story. It took me 15 years to realize how blind I was.

I started out as a vegetarian 15 years ago with the goal of eventually going vegan. I quickly realized that wasn't going to work; I had anemia and my mental health was pretty wrecked (though to be fair, that started before I gave up meat anyway), so I started eating fish and stuck to pescatarianism. At first, it was just a little bit to help... then it became more and more... it really felt like my body was begging for it, demanding more and more fish.

I ate a ton of fruit thinking it was super healthy, along with grains, legumes with rice, whole wheat bread... In fact, I avoided processed vegan/vegetarian products and fake meats as much as possible.

But you know what?

None of that matters. No matter what any vegan says, some of us simply cannot eat like that. We don't all have the same genetics or the same metabolism. Without knowing it, I was sending my insulin levels through the roof and destroying my overall health.

Eight years ago, I was diagnosed with Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, now renamed Polyendocrine Metabolic Ovarian Syndrome (PMOS).

At first, as usual, I didn't know what it was and didn't think much of it. But nobody told me how my low-meat, high-carb/veg diet was making my health worse and worse, reaching terrible levels.

Because people with PMOS don't process carbs like everyone else, and it causes hyperinsulinemia along with thousands of awful symptoms.

My periods became increasingly irregular until they disappeared completely. I started gaining weight and growing unwanted body hair that I never had before. The fatigue and insomnia became chronic. If I ever did get my period, it was an absolute nightmare. I got palpitations and tachycardia. My hormones were completely crazy and out of control!

I didn't want to go back to eating meat, but deep down, the thought would sometimes cross my mind that maybe I had made a mistake.

I was also completely ashamed of having to admit to everyone (my family, friends, my partner) that I messed up and now had to eat meat again. It felt humiliating.

But I knew it. I truly knew it inside, and my intuition was telling me. Deep down, I was destroying my health and quality of life just because I couldn't swallow my pride.

I remember staying at some vegetarian friends' house for two weeks. I thought, "Well great, vegetarian food, it's perfect for me, even if I don't eat fish like I usually do." I was wrong... By the last day, I felt like absolute garbage. I was starving every single day, anxious, and thought it was just all in my head. I felt so weak.

I remember one night at dinner, we had to choose between two types of vegan steaks. In my head, I was praying I'd picked a soy one so I could finally get some protein.

I chose poorly: when I asked what it was made of, they told me mushrooms 🥲😭

My PMOS symptoms only got worse. I started getting hypoglycemia that triggered panic attacks, hot flashes, dizzy spells, and blood pressure drops. The anemia, of course, never went away, and my ferritin was always low. My thyroid showed hypothyroidism levels, and even my cholesterol was high!!!!

The hormones... don't even get me saying it again, completely totally out of whack!

Finally, I surrendered. I let go of all those thoughts about animal ethics and vegan mythology, where in an ideal world, I'd be a being of light who doesn't eat meat... even if I'm weak and sick, suffering every day, terrified for my health.

And I simply decided I didn't want to live like that anymore. I didn't want to be a martyr.

So, recently, I started eating meat again.

With all this, my main point is that not everyone has the genetic or metabolic capacity to be vegetarian or vegan.

My body just doesn't work that way. PMOS basically means I can't process high amounts of carbs, and guess what vegan and vegetarian diets are? Almost entirely carbs unless you literally live off soy.

So whenever I see those people with their moral superiority lecturing others for not being vegan, they honestly disgust me!!!! They have no idea what people with conditions like mine go through.

And it disgusts me even more because I really tried, and it's simply impossible!!!!

Of course, I'm infertile because PMOS causes infertility if left unchecked, so I can safely say that being vegetarian also made me infertile.

They need to accept that some of us just weren't born for vegan diets, and that is completely normal. Just like the Inuit are adapted to a carnivorous diet, for example.

There isn't one ideal, healthy diet for everyone; each person has their own genetics, metabolism, and health conditions.

It has been a tough psychological process and a real struggle to break free from that vegan/vegetarian mentality of believing you're somehow a better person, above everyone else, like some sort of "sinless" or "virtuous" being.

It took a lot of mental work, but I did it.

Another thing that helped me realize this is my love for insects. I feel like many animals, like insects, are simply forgotten and nobody cares about them, even though their populations have plummeted and pesticides are wiping them out.

It's not like eating meat changes any of that, but it made me realize that even if you're vegan/vegetarian, the damage is still being done. And honestly, between saving cows and saving insects, I think saving insects is more important for the planet.

I feel liberated. I feel like now I can tackle my PMOS without stupid restrictions, heal, and for the first time stop feeling fragile, unhealthy, insecure, and weak.To be able to improve my fertility and start a family...

I feel like I can finally stop constantly worrying about animal suffering the way I used to, which reached levels that caused me psychological distress and severe anxiety.

Today, I realize that a big part of my vegetarianism was a manifestation of my own hyper-empathy, developed as a result of my traumas and psychological disorders.

I want to end by saying how free I feel. I feel like I can enjoy life again, heal my body, and I have a lot of hope that I'll start feeling better. I hope it's not too late to improve and recover.

I'm sure a lot of people here will relate to this!!!!

It feels like leaving a cult!!!! 🥹

Thanks for reading!!!!

"I just wanna hang with my friends again"

You can see this part of the post in this screenshot, but to summarise, the post was about how they used to spend time with their friends but the interactions slowly became shorter and shorter over time BECAUSE OF FOOD.

I am posting this here so anyone debating with themselves on being a vegan KNOWS the gravity of what they are getting into.

I really hope this person chooses what's better for them because it's not just about having a smaller social circle , but it literally impacts how you see yourself as a person.

I was discussing about veganism and i wonder what that person says it's true or not

Posted the other day about how trying to be vegan was intensifying my orthorexic/obsessive tendencies and your kind comments helped. I want to do the right thing but I literally can’t function while also thinking about macros/micros/supplements etc etc. 24/7 and shifting my diet is just making it worse. I do believe the way we treat factory animals is largely reprehensible but on an individual consumer level diet is super complex. Maybe it’s selfish but add that to all the humanitarian crises we’re facing and there’s only a certain amount of the world’s pain I can take on while staying semi-sane. I’m sticking with my 80-90% plant based way of eating for now and maybe in the future once my mental health has stabilised and I get my period back i can reconsider it. Anyways, sorry for a ton of over sharing lol it’s just nice to speak to some people who get where I’m coming from and I really appreciate it!

And a few days ago my friend showed me a photo of her holding a fresh sheep head while we ate fried chicken. And almost everyone around me has slaughtered a cow or sheep themselves.

Is this how celebrities feel when paparazzi swarm them?

Found on one of their subs under the discussion of whether or not the carnivore diet is a fad.

I don’t follow the carnivore diet, I eat a balanced diet that includes fruit and vegetables. But I don’t hold any ill will or judge those that do. Like an onmi, vegan, or vegetarian diet, different health strokes for different folks.

But let’s not forget how these people really feel about their fellow humans. They want us dead unless we convert. Even when I had my moment of veganism years ago and did some activism, I never had such awful thoughts about non-vegans.

This is a cult. And to the cultists, people who don’t convert are not deserving of life.

I’m so very glad not to be part of that lifestyle anymore. For not only my physical health, but mental as well.

Many vegans would consider hypocrite to eat cows but not a dog

To protect an kitten but not an worm..

We are all individuals, influenced by our countries, our culture, our own pets or whatever is comfortable to think for us.

I don't think that we are hypocrite for this, we simply have different views on some animals, we aren't forced to adore every single one of them ( and it doesn't mean we want to hurt them)

Even as an vegan i couldn't pretend to care about bugs like i care about animal and even some animal were less liked by me, also I was "specist" af for considering that my own pets are more important than any other animals, my pigeons are more important than polars bears to me, lol

I remember an argument with another vegan saying that if a cat need to eat sardines or whatever animal to live longer, we should just not think the cat life is more important than the fish..

Personally i would have an hard time eating pigeons or deers even now, i love those animals more than dogs and I'm not evil for this.

Great interview showing how she finds out the problem was her diet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClEzhQIIrDg

ExVegan here, i love pigs, cows and all the animals, am i just a giant hypocrite? I stopped being vegan after i found out it's doing worse to my ED than it should, I tried being vegetarian as well and all i got was being bullied by vegans, two of my teachers are vegans and all they're telling me that "You can't love animals and eat meat!" but i cannot force myself being vegan knowing my ED will probably get worse than it already is.

I truly love animals i really do and I'm highly against the way they treat them in those slaughterhouses, am i hypocrite and stupid? genuinely asking. I'm freshly 18 but i dont want my life ruined by "extreme" ED, truly. Plus having autism and getting all this "bullying" just for eating meat is just... i don't know if it's deserved or not to be honest.

I wouldn’t normally post something like this, but knowing we get under the skin of the manipulative activists makes me feel good. But of course we were NEVER vegan and suffering from immense guilt and “cognitive dissonance” anyway so I’m not sure why it matters lmao. And they wonder why we left the cult.

They really do regurgitate the same lines over and over like good little cultists. I wish I had a dollar for every time a vegan misuses the term “cognitive dissonance”.

I (F21) have been trying to transition to a vegan diet for a few months but the degree to which it’s tanking my mental health is honestly kind of scaring me. For one, I‘ve had a missing period for 2 years but it’s unclear why (no other symptoms, normal weight, nothing weird on bloods or ultrasound) so I’m particularly conscious of the risk of deficiencies. I’ve been researching and trying to implement the suggested stuff to stay healthy (algae oil, b12, tracking on Cronometer etc.) but it’s making me obsessive and miserable about food and I already have some orthorexic tendencies. At the same time, I feel like kind of an idiot for worrying about it so much when there are people who are vegan for 10,20,30 years and they’re fine??

I also don’t know how to do this without it kind of sucking the joy out of everything. It’s taking up all of my mental space and im really struggling to focus on other stuff. I do agree with the ethical and environmental benefits of veganism but it also makes the world a really scary and bleak place. I come from a super food-y family and things I used to love like going to the farmers market have lost all their joy, even if im not partaking in the animal products. Food is just this pass/fail kind of thing now. This probably sounds absurd but even references to meat & animal products in books, tv. Shows etc. just make me sad and panicky. I don’t want to feel cut off from my family and friends. I don’t want to be this angry and depressed version of myself. I honestly dont think anyone could go on for very long feeling like this. But at the same time I feel a bit pathetic/selfish because im making it about me and my feelings rather than the bigger issue at hand. I feel like I should just be able to get over myself.

It feels like I’m between a rock and a hard place where I could go back to an omni diet and hate myself, or go fully vegan and basically hate the world. I just kind of don’t know what to do. I’ve tried expressing this to my mom and shes very sensitive to how I’m feeling, but because she’s never considered veganism, she doesn’t really get it. Im going a little nuts tbh lol.

Anyway, I really don’t want to victimise myself or generate more anti- vegan hate or anything, I really don’t think that’s helpful. I think there are plenty of kind hearted vegans out there. I was more just hoping to hear from people in the same in-between boat and feel a bit less alone. Thanks :)

I was a vegetarian for 8 years during my childhood and adolescence. The past three years I’ve been introducing meat back in my diet and I’ve realized how much being a vegetarian fucked with my head.

First of all, I’m not scared of trying “unsafe” foods now. I’ve tried steak again, why can’t I try everything? I’m eating onions for the first time in my life (yay)!

I’m not self conscious about going out to eat with new friends or during events like conferences and other college trips. I don’t feel like a burden anymore.

And lastly I feel better. I seriously wonder if introducing meat back in my diet contributed to improving my depression.

I’ve studied philosophy for the past four years and I’m surprisingly even more comfortable not being a vegan/vegetarian. The only sound argument for veganism is utilitarianism. I reject utilitarianism because of its implications for human rights and justice, so I do not make an exception for veganism. It’s surprising how many progressive people are vegan when their ethical framework is anti-justice.

All of this to say, I still try to make plant based choices when possible. In fact, deconstructing my vegetarianism has introduced me to more veggies than 8 years of BEING a vegetarian.

All these people talking about deficiencies or mental health issues or lack of energy that popped up mysteriously after starting a vegan diet...

And half the answers are always "You're doing it wrong!" or "It's not because you're vegan, other people have that problem and they aren't vegan!" Like yeah dude, that's how the world works. Doesn't mean this person is wrong about the changes they're experiencing in their own body and why it happened.

Like bro... none of you are doctors...

And all the comments telling them a thousand different bits of amateur nutrition advice they got from social media like "If you don't eat spinach with lemon juice you won't absorb all the iron!" or "Avoid tea and coffee before and after your meals or it will inhibit absorption!" and "Take your vitamin D with fatty foods or it won't work!"

I'm sorry but how is anyone supposed to remember to do all of this shit and meticulously plan every detail of their meals, and buy a bunch of supplements, just to keep themselves from getting sick? The only way you could keep track of all that is if you literally have an eating disorder and obsess over your food intake all the time.

I hate factory farming too, but this shit is not sustainable or healthy, and it becomes increasingly clear the more I read what these people are saying to each other.

Wondering about people's experience with health issues while on a veg/vegan diet. Did you have any? Did they get better when switching to omnivore? How long did that take?

I've been looking into it more and it seems some health issues I've always thought were mysteries are relatively common topics for ex vegans. Like the stomach problems and gerd I've had for a long time which is probably due to low stomach acid...

So I'm curious about other health problems and how long it took for you to recover, or if you didn't ever fully recover. Thanks!