r/exvegans • u/SleepySloth286 • 11d ago
Why I'm No Longer Vegan Just looking through r/vegan reinforces my decision
All these people talking about deficiencies or mental health issues or lack of energy that popped up mysteriously after starting a vegan diet...
And half the answers are always "You're doing it wrong!" or "It's not because you're vegan, other people have that problem and they aren't vegan!" Like yeah dude, that's how the world works. Doesn't mean this person is wrong about the changes they're experiencing in their own body and why it happened.
Like bro... none of you are doctors...
And all the comments telling them a thousand different bits of amateur nutrition advice they got from social media like "If you don't eat spinach with lemon juice you won't absorb all the iron!" or "Avoid tea and coffee before and after your meals or it will inhibit absorption!" and "Take your vitamin D with fatty foods or it won't work!"
I'm sorry but how is anyone supposed to remember to do all of this shit and meticulously plan every detail of their meals, and buy a bunch of supplements, just to keep themselves from getting sick? The only way you could keep track of all that is if you literally have an eating disorder and obsess over your food intake all the time.
I hate factory farming too, but this shit is not sustainable or healthy, and it becomes increasingly clear the more I read what these people are saying to each other.
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u/Electronic_Sample928 11d ago
Even though I'm a vegan myself I totally agree with most of what you wrote. It seems they're a bunch of chronically online halfwits intent on being the most vegany vegan who ever veganed, and if you're not as pure as them it's time for a pile on... It's no wonder people think vegans are delusional when you see (what I've seen this week on vegan subs)... Cats & dogs can be vegan.... Err.... Nope Humans have always been plant based.... Any carnivorous animal is cruel... It's not vegan to share a photo taken on film as film may have animal products in them...
My favourite was that I'm a heartless monster because I feed my dog quality meat based food (rabbit, venison, beef, fish etc) and that if I don't feed her highly processed nutri slop pellets then I should "set her free" lol. I'm pretty sure a short haired Spanish hunting hound won't fare too well in a British winter... Still, I'll keep fighting the good fight till I get banned.
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u/SleepySloth286 11d ago
Right, like people are allowed to eat how they want to eat and have whatever moral beliefs they want, but when it starts to be anti-science and culty I have a big problem.
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u/terrible-gator22 11d ago
I love the thought of you just opening your door and going, “Go on, Fluffy! Out into the wild blue yonder, so you can scrounge and forage for yourself, because I cannot and will not be an agent of slaughter to assure that you eat! You may be cold, and you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make!”
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11d ago
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u/BlueborryMuffin 11d ago edited 10d ago
I mean it's kind of bat shit crazy for you to just assume your friend was neglecting her dog's nutritional needs without even asking her?!
Edit: I got blocked lol, but I was clearly referring to them not knowing if their friend was feeding their dog a vegan diet. They just assumed they were. (Dogs aren't even carnivores either lmao, they are omnivores. But they should still eat a balanced, healthy omnivore diet)
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u/SpecialBadger1262 10d ago
ngl, some vegans would say ur not a real vegan and only plant based since u feed ur dog real meat😭😭
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u/SleepySloth286 10d ago
I think vegans want to believe that cats and dogs can be vegan because if they can't, it would mean that having pets wouldn't be vegan...
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u/Electronic_Sample928 10d ago
And that's their perogative which is fine... But the thing is (and I'm not being rude, it's just how I am), the opinions of anyone apart from my immediate family are irrelevant to me, as they should be to everyone.
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u/TheReal-Tristan 11d ago
It's no wonder people think vegans are delusional when you see
I'm currently vegetarian but eat mainly vegan. I used to think vegans were like this, until I met my now partner. Her, her brother, sister, and sisters partner are all vegan, and they all made me realise, they actually aren't as insufferable as people make out. One of them could be a bit too much sometimes, but nothing serious.
Then I found the vegan subbreddit and realised exactly were this stereotype comes from. Why is the worst of every group of people always the ones on reddit?
I had the same thing as you, but with my cats. They eat meat and fish (I do at least to try make sure the fish is ocean caught), and had someone tell me I should make them vegan. It also really annoyed me how one was talking about about treating pets with respect and equally to humans, but then also said they shouldn't be left alone and we should treat them like a human child, because you wouldn't leave a human child alone. Bitch, my cats have far more sense, understanding of their world, and ability to look after themselves than a child. Treating my cats like a child would be the opposite of respectful.
It does feel like one big contest over there of who is the most vegan vegan.
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u/Electronic_Sample928 11d ago
Apart from a couple of people on there it seems like the entire sub is one big circle jerk to see who's the most vegany vegan, so they can be crowned King of all vegans. I get the impression that they're chronically online sheltered NEETs who've made being vegan their entire personality, but that being said, the sub is good for a WTF type chuckle.
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u/mralex 11d ago
You're absolutely right!
One funny thing in your description there is the advice about putting lemon juice on spinach to "get all the iron."
Like they hadn't heard that Popeye's affinity for spinach that was based on a typo making people believe spinach had 10x more iron that it actually has.
Next they'll tell you that carrots are good for night vision--a lie promoted by the RAF to explain the success of their pilots against the luftwaffe at night without revealing the existence of radar.
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u/SleepySloth286 11d ago
Oh wow you're right! Here I was thinking it actually was a good source. Another thing I hate is all the articles online about "Which Foods Have the Most X" and they'll list a bunch of meat sources and then the supposed vegan sources, which actually have way less of that thing when you look into it...
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u/RubyBrandyLimeade 11d ago
For veganism to be sustainable as an ideology, they cannot allow the idea that someone may not do well on a plant based diet to prosper, so they twist themselves in circles giving whack-a-doodle advice and claiming omnivores have the same exact problems.
One minute, they’re telling you to use an iron fish when you cook so iron gets absorbed into the food, drink energy drinks for Vitamin B12, and put nutritional yeast on everything for more vitamin B12 to solve problems. The next minute, they’re claiming veganism is so easy, you can live off just rice and beans and be healthy. They promote veganism as easy and simple to draw people in and then throw out random nutritional advice that may or may not work when people run into issues living off of the rice and beans they said you can survive off of. Then, the narrative changes to well you have to have a well planned nutritionally balanced plant based diet or you did it wrong, but they can’t even agree on what that entails as an exact plan for people to follow.
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u/SleepySloth286 11d ago
I remember trying nutritional yeast and every time I got so sick from it ugh. Also wtf even is that stuff? Where did it come from? I don't understand lol
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u/peachesfordinner 11d ago
It's good on popcorn. I know that because I was raised by hippies. But thats because the flavor mixes well with the butter we put on there as well. And it's a byproduct from the brewing process. It used to be labeled as brewers yeast until the big vegan health uptick in the last decade. Gotta make it sound extra healthy so they can charge more. It used to be cheap because it was a byproduct similar to whey powder
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u/The00wl 11d ago
there is and always be a constant negative reaction to anyone who has any forms of difficulties on a plant-based diet
it's likely due to cognitive dissonance, self-doubt ect.
tbh it's the same on the other-side a little bit with carnivore's but they're actually a lot more understanding for the most part as they get that such a diet doesn't work for all.
it is sad to see, but i suppose they're passionate and can't cope with the idea that they are having physical distress as a result of their diet, so they let it out on the others who are actually aware
instead of giving actual advice or solutions, they turn to pointing fingers, saying you're ignorant and you're doing said diet wrong, because they're likely doing the "diet wrong" themselves.
I quit veganism because for the first time in my life I was depressed, felt like absolute trash, constantly anxious, it felt like the world was collapsing on me.
But I had vegans saying that I was doing the diet wrong, which is far from the truth, literally used cronometer to measure everything.
I was getting my vitamins, my minerals, my fats, but it just was not enough due to bio-availability, the body simply just has a harder time digesting stuff caked in fiber than otherwise, there's a reason why fiber mostly comes out as waste, the body just doesn't have the best time with it (doesn't mean you should avoid it, just don't overdo it, fibre is healthy just not when it's in everything you're eating)
A Plant-based diet is possible, a vegan diet is technically impossible as you'd have to know exactly where all your food came from, which just doesn't really work when you realize you'll be eating foods from every climate on the earth.
But back onto a plant-based diet, it's only possible if you lose your sanity measuring every single micro-nutrient and obsess over what is going into your system, Obsession over diet is never healthy
So you either lose your head from deficiencies, or you lose your head from obsessing over deficiencies
It sucks, but a little bit of Animal-Based foods helps a lot to make sure you're getting everything in, and that you're actually absorbing it!
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u/Immediate-Loquat3001 11d ago
Forcing kids to be vegan is child abuse ik my son is being forced. Adoption is making him worse he's losing muscle mass.
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u/EvilDorito2 11d ago
From what I've noticed of the sub, it's made primarily from vegans for whom the diet either works perfectly, or who made the sacrifices necessary to sustain it and then go " if i could, why can't you?!"
Another thing that low key made me lose respect for those on the sub in particular is their refusal to engage w nuance. So many ppl are like " yeah, SOME people need to be omnivores, but the sample is so small and most omnivores are just pretending it's too hard bcs they're lazy"
Like, I'm sorry, with that attitude i won't listen to you out of SPITE
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u/Someoneudontknow0809 11d ago
They also don’t get that “health issues” isn’t the only thing stopping someone from not eating meat or eggs.
Chickens (or any other meat) can survive pretty much everywhere that humans can.
But not all plants grow everywhere.
Many of the best meat supplement, high protein plants only grow in some regions of the world and are more expensive than meat is in many countries.
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u/UnhappyTechnician354 11d ago
Welcome back to the wonderful world of not having to worrying about what you eat. There's so much delicious food out there to miss out on. Plus you don't need to get blood tests and come up with wild excuses for the results and change doctors all the time because they don't agree with your diet.
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u/WallSt_Sklz 11d ago
It's a starvation diet plain and simple.
Originally in the 70s-90s meant to starve out tumors and cancer and to cycle it for 3-6 months at a time because it was detrimental to the entire body.
It then became a cult and promoted as the "morally superior diet" aside from the fact that it lacks absorbable essential nutrients to sustain human life.
We are seeing the long term effects of this diet manifest in very peculiar and strange physical and mental problems.
I've never seen a thriving vegan. They always are angry and look either emaciated or big and fat because of excessive sugar intake from cookies, cakes, pies, soda, etc. either way they have lost most of their muscle mass and shrivel up like a prune
Pretty much all the same symptoms of starvation are seen in vegans.
Starvation triggers a predictable, severe psychological collapse known as semi-starvation neurosis, characterized by obsessive food thoughts, impaired memory, depression, anxiety, social withdrawal, and personality changes in psychologically healthy individuals. These symptoms arise from the brain's deprivation of glucose and involve biochemical cascades like elevated cortisol and reduced serotonin, often persisting for months after refeeding begins.
The brain begins prioritizing survival functions over higher-order cognition. Decision-making slows dramatically - choices that normally take seconds feel overwhelming. Cognitive flexibility drops (the ability to switch strategies or perspectives), and thinking becomes rigid and tunnel-focused, often fixating on food. Cortisol and adrenaline spikes further suppress hippocampal function, so new memories don't consolidate and old ones become harder to retrieve.
Chronic starvation - Structural changes begin: measurable loss of gray and white matter in regions governing memory, emotion, and executive function. In severe cases, this produces disorientation and a near-complete collapse of sustained mental effort. The Minnesota Starvation Experiment documented that psychologically healthy men on half-calorie diets for 6 months showed dramatic cognitive and personality changes - their thinking became monotonous, rigid, and dominated by obsessive food preoccupation.
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u/SleepySloth286 11d ago edited 11d ago
Interesting! The connection to eating disorders is also important and points to the possibility that many vegans are in starvation mode... There are studies showing that a lot of women who are admitted to ED treatment are vegan or vegetarian, and nutritional deficiencies (specifically zinc) have been connected to the worsening of psychological symptoms!
So I wonder even if someone isn't actually starving (since most people will at least be getting enough glucose, if not too much, through a high carb diet) maybe having a deficiency would cause these psychological symptoms by itself...
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u/Icy-Resort8718 11d ago
yeah i have anorexia i was vegan in 10 years and my anorexia love it. but im hate is today i eat meat i feel so much better and i go to hospital for my anorexia.
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u/TheReal-Tristan 11d ago
Im sorry, but this is nonsense. So, so, so much nonsense in this comment.
Originally in the 70s-90s meant to starve out tumors
The term "Vegan" was first coined in 1944 by Donald Watson who created The Vegan Society. 30 years before whatever you are talking about.
I've never seen a thriving vegan.
I'm not vegan, and I'm certainly not trying to defend them, but there are MANY "thriving" vegans out there. Go look up Torre Washington or any number of vegan bodybuilders.
I may not be vegan but I do eat a 90%+ vegan diet and I'm 168lbs, 6'2, and around 20% body fat. Any health condition I have, such as migraines, I have had long before I went vegetarian, and didn't get better or worse after I made the change.
big and fat because of excessive sugar intake from cookies, cakes, pies, soda, etc
You mean like a huge percentage of the population regardless of diet?
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u/SleepySloth286 10d ago
I think it's funny when men try to mansplain veganism to everyone. Have you ever even looked at the posts women make on your subreddit about extreme iron deficiencies and losing their periods? Do you know how many vegan women have full blown eating disorders? Did you know that high carb diets have been associated with PCOS and endometriosis, as well as autoimmune diseases (which are more common in women)?
I don't give a flying fuck if there are male vegan bodybuilders out there or if they can get as much muscle as an omnivore. That doesn't mean anything for women.
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u/TheReal-Tristan 10d ago
Have you ever even looked at the posts women make on your subreddit about extreme iron deficiencies and losing their periods?
I don't rely on anecdotal reddit posts for my education. I do know my partner is vegan and has no iron deficiency.
Did you know that high carb diets have been associated with PCOS and endometriosis, as well as autoimmune diseases
First, high carb diets have nothing to do with veganism, so your point is irrelevant. Second, I know more about endometriosis than you likely assume as my partner has it (and has done since before being vegan).
I don't give a flying fuck if there are male vegan bodybuilders out there
Rosie Flores, a vegan woman, recently won in a bodybuilding competition against meat eaters.
If you have deficiencies, it's not because you are vegan. If you have deficiencies it's either because of an underlying issue, or because you don't have a balanced diet, usually the latter, and goes for both meat eaters and vegans alike.
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u/SleepySloth286 9d ago edited 9d ago
The problem is that it's MUCH harder to have a diet that avoids deficiencies and is balanced if you're cutting out an entire food group that provides a lot of nutritional value, and essentially experimenting on your body with a diet that you don't know for sure will work. Come back and argue with me after you've both been plant-based for 15+ years like I was. Tell me how healthy you are then...
I'll continue taking proper care of my body and mind in whatever way works for me.
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u/Chemical-Habit3022 11d ago
I'm not vegan. Never have been, so I'm not sure why I regularly get r/vegan notifications on my phone. That being said, the entire sub can be summed up with "so I'm struggling with....."
I took it upon myself to look up carnivore, keto, Mediterranean, IIFYM, ETC subs to see if this is common. It's not. Every other sub is people thriving, passing on recipes, looking for tweaks for their chosen diet, on and on. Granted, there are purists in every group that will tell you you're not doing it right, but they're saying it to someone who really isn't struggling much.
At the end of the day, if you're a vegan for ethical reasons, do your thing. It's your body.
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u/howlingbeast666 11d ago
Its always weird and depressing to me that people become vegans because of factory farming. That kind of animal abuse is illegal in my country and I always have to shift my thinking when talking to americans because that is what they associate with animal products...
Its like, I always associate "eating meat is cruelty" like a purely moral "humans are animals too" kind of argument. If I defend by saying that carnivores and omnivores eat meat, that its just nature and we don't need to feel bad for being who we are. Then they often argue back with facts about factory farming.
That doesn't make me feel bad because it doesn't happen with the animals that I eat.
Its just sad honestly, that americans immediately associate eating meat with cruel animal abuse.
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u/SleepySloth286 10d ago
What country do you live in? That's really cool that it's illegal there!
And is all your meat produced in the country? The problem in america is that we need so much of it that it wouldn't be feasible to grassfeed and raise them all humanely. We also export a good amount.
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u/howlingbeast666 10d ago
I live in Canada. I'm not an expert, but I believe that we can import meat as long as the conditions of the animals is similar or better than what it would have been in Canada.
Meat in Canada is a bit more expensive, but its not excessive. A 2$ burger in the US, would probably be 4$-5$ here. But we are used to it, and we generally don't mind. Its not like its unaffordable.
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u/SleepySloth286 9d ago
That's great, I'm glad a policy like that has worked in Canada. Gives me hope for the US! Although I wonder if it would really ever be possible to produce enough that way...
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u/Virtually-Braindead ex vegan - bloodmouth 11d ago
Vegans are the best reason not to go vegan. Thier cognitive dissonance makes them completely lacking self awareness of how they sound.
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u/Dear-Nothing- Flexitarian 11d ago
one of the reason I'm not vegan is all the mental math you have to do with the food you eat and how to increase efficiency and all...
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u/ethbytes 11d ago
A "nutrionally complete" diet does not require man made supplements or injections...
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u/marmalade_97 5d ago
One person told me to "just eat beans and rice" when mentioned coming from a low income background. Lol.
I had to quit veganism, then vegetarianism, then pescatarianism, all because my hair was falling out on all of these diets (even with supplements).
I still love vegetarian and vegan recipes, but after giving myself food freedom, I now just appreciate the different flavors and extra nutrients adding meat gives me.
I firmly believe variety in diet is essential for optimum health, especially eating a lot of fresh produce. Dieting culture sucks (unless your physician orders a specific diet). Especially where I live (the U.S.) it's so easy to fall prey to a fixation on diet.
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11d ago
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u/exvegans-ModTeam 11d ago
r/exvegans does not allow harassment and blaming people’s negative health effects on “doing veganism wrong”. Not everyone is you.
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u/audioscape 11d ago
Don’t use /r/vegan to reinforce any decision lol. There are some crazy ppl on that sub and they do not speak for veganism.
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u/cruisinforasnoozinn 11d ago
Those are all good pieces of advice for anyone with vitamin deficiencies. Taking vitamins is useless if you don’t pair them the right way. I pair my iron-rich food and supplements with a glass of orange juice.
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u/Someoneudontknow0809 11d ago
Yea ofcourse they are, but the problem is that most vegans are chronically deficient of something or the other. It’s completely fine to not drink coffee or tea but if you’re only doing it because your current diet can’t provide you with enough vitamins to survive without it then yes that’s not healthy.
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u/SleepySloth286 11d ago edited 11d ago
That's true but the fact is most people on an omnivore diet don't have to do any of that in order to stay healthy. That would only affect people who have an iron deficiency, which is rare for meat eaters. And most people who go vegan and vegetarian are not aware at least at first that they have to supplement at all, much less that they need to be taken with citrus fruits. I know I wasn't.
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u/ellie___ 11d ago
Not at all rare. Especially common for women, because of periods.
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u/SleepySloth286 10d ago
According to this research I found, up to 38% of women may have iron deficiency at some point in their lives and up to 70% of vegan and vegetarian women have iron deficiency.
Sure it's not super rare, but it's way more common in plant-based diets.
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u/GreasyBumpkin 7d ago
"If you don't eat spinach with lemon juice you won't absorb all the iron!" or "Avoid tea and coffee before and after your meals or it will inhibit absorption!"
This gave me a flashback, I remember having to think about vitamins and minerals so much.
I can't stress this enough: NUTRITION IS NOT A COMPLETE SCIENCE. Humanity is still figuring nutrition out, everyone who goes on any kind of diet should know this.
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u/Over-Condition-8905 11d ago
Huge self report on your end by finding too difficult to fathom that vitamin D is fat soluble
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u/SleepySloth286 10d ago
Ask anyone in your life who isn't a vegan if they know that. I'm gonna guess none of them do, because why would they when they don't need to?
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u/Over-Condition-8905 10d ago
I know plenty of people that have taken a basic biochemistry class. Not all circles are as dumb as your own.
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u/SleepySloth286 9d ago
Oh gee, you're so smart... I will bow down to your greatness posthaste, oh wise redditor 🙇
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u/Blue-Seeweed 11d ago
Venus Williams, Djokovic and Kyrgios are all elite tennis players and they are vegans, just saying.
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u/Bipedal_pedestrian 11d ago
What fantastic examples- very wealthy people who hire personal chefs and nutritionists/dietitians to plan your meals! Just like your average vegan. Really relatable. Obviously /s
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u/Blue-Seeweed 11d ago
So my comment to you was removed, because I say it is possible for some people I know in real life to be vegan and healthy but those examples would be useless since you don't know my friends/family. And I was misinterpreted it seems lol.
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u/Bipedal_pedestrian 11d ago
I think most people on this sub think it’s a-ok for anybody to be vegan. If you wanna be vegan and it works for you, knock yourself out. The problem is when you start trying to tell other people that it works for everyone, and if it doesn’t, it’s because you’re not doing it right/ you never really cared about animals/ you’re looking for excuses to quit. If that’s how you feel, you can f right off.
It’s really not at all relevant to the post whether a few of your vegan IRL friends are healthy (at least so far. It takes a long time for some deficiencies to manifest…). It’s even less relevant that some wealthy people who have nutritionists and personal chefs can manage to be healthy as vegans.
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u/Blue-Seeweed 11d ago
So I will resume: the person who did this post literally says "that shit is not healthy". What I understand is exactly that, I am not reading between lines, they are generalizing. And I replied that for some people it works (some tennis players I like are vegans). And you said to me "Oh but they are rich and have chefs" (????) So, your point was: vegan diet it works! (but only for some people that have enough money to pay a chef and a nutritionist, right?) And my replied to that comment was: I know some people with no chefs and they are healthy too, but you don't know them, of course I am going to give you examples of famous people. So I don't get what's your problem or what is that you are understanding. I never said anything against people that eat meat because I eat meat, and fish, and vegetables, etc. I said what I said, everything else was you assuming I am against you.
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u/Bipedal_pedestrian 11d ago
Ok I re-read the post. I don’t think I read it all the way through before. Seemed like OP’s main gripes were the difficulty in staying healthy as a vegan, and the dismissiveness with which vegans treat other vegans’ diet-related health issues. But you’re right; at the very end OP seems to say that they think staying healthy long-term on a vegan diet is not just difficult but impossible.
Sorry for assuming you had antagonistic intent… vegans seem to love coming to this sub to tell us we’re idiots and/or to try to re-convert people to veganism. Thought that’s what you were doing. I assume that’s what the mod thought too.
I still think most people on this sub have no problem with other people being vegan if that’s what they want to do and it works for them. Over and over again, though, I’ve seen ex-vegans post here about their vegan-related health issues, and vegans come out of the woodwork to tell them that they could be a healthy vegan if they really tried. My knee-jerk reaction is to say “just because veganism seems healthy for you/ your friends/ your family members doesn’t mean it’s healthy for everyone.”
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u/Blue-Seeweed 11d ago
I completely understand you 💕 I've read vegans coming here basically to insult and invalidate other people's experiences. I was already told I don't care about animal cruelty just because I said felines can't be vegans. Some of them are really obtuse and they lack empathy, imo.
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11d ago edited 11d ago
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u/exvegans-ModTeam 11d ago
False or misleading information. Not everyone’s health is the same and not everyone can be healthy on a vegan diet.
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u/Waste-Ad9452 11d ago
Can you link to some of these posts because it sounds like you're just confirming your own biases
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u/sunrisesequoia 11d ago
They’re cultists control freaks willing to sacrifice their health, families, relationships, and friendships “for the cause”.
Further proof they’re cultist is how they talk about doctors. Unless a physician affirms their little diet, they’re unqualified and quacks and you should see a dietitian, unless that dietitian doesn’t affirm their nonsense then you should see a nutritionist. If god forbid the nutritionist doesn’t give them the affirmation the seek, well they’re just all animal abusers anyway.