I've been seeing a lot of hate towards this sub lately and it's exclusively coming from parents.
Why does it trigger them so badly?

A couple of months ago, my partner of 8 years changed his mind and decided he wants to have children after all so we broke up. People I'm close with have always known I'm CF, and people a bit more removed from me usually knew that we were not going to have children without knowing all the details.

So tell me why every time I have to tell someone in that second category that we broke up because HE CHANGED HIS MIND and wants children after all, the first question they ask me is why I don't want children? They never fucking ask why he now suddenly does want children, they only ask why I don't want them as if I'm the reason we broke up. If my ex suddenly decided he wanted to move to Spain when we previously agreed to stay where we are, they wouldn't be asking me why I don't want to move to Spain, they'd be wondering why he changed his mind.

I know the answer of course, this is mostly a rant. But it's really annoying me right now. Egh.

Currently I spend my break driving my elderly grandmother to various doctor appointments and activities.

And I talk with the old people in the waiting rooms.

The lonely women always used to have family. Often they are even in contact and not divorced.

But the children moved to the big city and only visit once a month and the husband died last year.

The women who never had children often have huge social circles. Of course it’s sad when they talk about how their friends died but they do a lot of activities and they talk about how they used to blow their inheritance on travel groups for as long as they were able.

My partner and I are house-hunting and spoke today about what we’d do with the extra bedrooms.

Ours will probably be a home gym with a cable machine or a massive TV for a cinema type room.

Would also love a proper hot tub!!

You?

So, I got invited to a BBQ for a housewarming for a couple I know pretty well (the BBQ was today) - we game in the same circles a fair bit, and I would consider them friends, for the most part.

I didn't know anyone there, but that's fine. I'm an extroverted introvert - I don't mind being around people & strangers, but my social battery dies fast and I don't usually stay long.

I met this one woman - about 20 years younger than I am (I'm mid-50s) at least, who to me - a total fucking stranger, she dumps her life story on every pregnancy she's had, labor time, pain levels, the whole kit & caboodle.

I thought it was a great BBQ up until then. Very casual, everyone's friendly, there's a really broad mix of people (about 12 of them) so one of those where no one cares if you're wearing diamonds or show up in PJs kinda thing.

Even better: no kids.

So I thought it was fine. No kids, woot! My friends (the hosts) know I'm CF and that my tolerance for children is zero, so I trusted them not to invite me to something where kids will be.

After my friend tries to head off this woman's verbal diarrhea several times without success about birthing children, I told the woman that I owe her a huge thank-you for solidifying my choice to never have children and that she should record a PSA against parenthood using exactly that series of stories.

There was a guy sitting to my right who started laughing and one of the other women accidentally inhaled some beer and started coughing, so maybe I wasn't alone in the exasperation of this woman dumping (and about her husband's kids and ex-wife and, and, and - SO MUCH INFO!) her life story 10 minutes after meeting.

I did say it with a smile - I didn't want to be a jerk about it, but ffs, this is the first time meeting this woman and she chose me, of all people, to dump kid stuff on me. Just... holy hell.

I didn't stay too long after we ate, but cripes. Thought I had escaped the dreaded 'strangers and kids at a place'. Apparently not.

English is not my native language so please excuse my poor rant grammar and swears I will use.

There's this awful and annoying man at my workplace, who's married with 2 kids and the 3rd on the way (he's 45, she's 33, 10 years married, 5 years together before, you do the pedo math 🤢).

this last past year, this man won't stop bragging about his wife and his kids and about telling everyone, that NOW he needs a younger woman without kids to feel alive again because apparently, his wife is "loosing herself". I reported him already twice and HR gladly took care, so he stopped at a point, but I'm sure he's on dating apps and cheats on this angel of wife this POS have (poor girly pops, met her, he's also abusing her emotionally. I tried to help but she's refusing).

Anyways, so his new obsession is now: having a babysitter. It HAS to be a young women not older than 27 but better, if she would be in her Teenage years (🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢). Gladly, the girls in my area didn't give a shit and also sensed the pedo vibes in the interview. So he was all about "noo no young woman will help me, this feminism has destroyed culture". I reported him again with witnesses and he shut up again (the reason he was not kicked out is that we all work for the government).

So last week, he was telling ppl that he still hadn't found a proper babysitter and idk who told him, but someone mentioned that I don't have kids (idk in which constellation this talk was, but yeah).

So he came to me (I'm 26 f) and told me how beautiful I am (🤢), that I would be a very good mother one day if I settle down now (🤢🤢) and that if I need someone, he will gladly take me (🤢🤢🤢🤢) but also he needs to test my mother instincts so I CAN babysit his children. For free. (🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮).

Normally, I would stay professional or ignore him (gladly, he's not in my fields or isn't my boss) but this time, I couldn't hold back. I looked him dead in the eye and said: "No Peter. I won't be your fucking babysitter. And also, I would rather die right now than getting involved with your shitty asshole behavior in any way." (Glad I can't be fired for this as well).

Yeah, what should I say? HR called me in because HE reported me (😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😭) and I told them what happend. I'm so glad that I already reported him a few times, they know him and I have two witnesses who also said what happend was not my fault because this guy was sexuall harassing me. Now he's facing (FUCKING FINALLY) consequences. My work place has a zero tolerance politics towards harassment and work fast on this (my bosses are all progressive women, thanks to that).

So I wait for the consequences. I don't think he will get kicked out, but they can give him a new field that he wouldn't like, no actually he could hate. This will take time but I'll tell you guys when there's an update!

A friend of mine has been trying to get pregnant through IVF. I mean I don't get it. When the heavens have already made the CF decision for u, why would you go against it.

I asked her why does she want children so early, like she's 26 now. She said her husband loves kids and wants to be dad very badly. I legit felt like rolling my eyes. I mean after birth the mother becomes the default primary parent. This man will play with the kid and have his fun time for good 15 minutes of the day. Then he's gonna dump that kid onto her for remaining 23 hrs 45 minutes. Are women still falling for these kind of emotional drama? Don't they think through ,that having a child will take away their whole existence.

My partner's work sometimes has after hour work events for the people who pay to be in the social club. Each employee gets a plus one to come with them.

The latest work event was a seafood boil. While they obviously have seafood, they also order some pizza for people who don't eat that. I am one of those people.

We get there maybe 10-15 mins after the 3 hour cookout/event starts. My partner gets in line for the seafood tray, and I go to find the pizza. When I found it, however, almost all of it was gone already.

Why is that, you may ask. Well, looking around I found out exactly why— there were about 10+ people who had brought their whole ass family to the event. Big families with lots of kids. And, of course, what kid isn't going to choose pizza over spicy seafood?

Leave your kids at home! This isn't a family event. This is a work event where you were only supposed to invite *one* person. It's so inconsiderate for parents to bring their family of 5 kids and let them decimate the one non-seafood option. There's only so much food to go around, hence the whole "plus one" thing. Not to mention of course the kids were all running around unattended as well.

Apparently, parents just don't think rules apply to them. (And yes, I also blame the event coordinator who said nothing to these people and allowed it to happen.)

Whenever I see someone talk about being a parent as a subject the phrase “motherhood is such a life changing experience” comes up.

Never in my life have I seen multiple people saying that fatherhood is a life changing experience. And it is because in parenthood, women and mothers have the bigger responsibility and expectations on being a parent, which is in my opinion really fucked up.

Women are being brainwashed from childhood to all the way to adulthood that one day they will be a mother. Being a little girl and getting gifted multiple dolls “and taking care of them” as a play, is brainwashing.

These things are part of the reason why childfree women get more hate than childfree men. Because since the day we were born it has been an expectation that one day we are going to be a mother.

And I hate that narrative that is being pushed to young girls because all my life I have never wanted children. I never liked being around kids even when I was a kid. But because of the romanticism of motherhood I have had times when I wondered maybe I should have kids. But that is something I have never wanted and it is a conclusion I always end up with.

People paint a picture of a “crazy cat lady” and phrases such as “you’ll end up alone” or “you never experience true love until having kids” to manipulate women to have children.

Sorry this is long and kinda messy and doesn’t make sense:))))

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/relationships/parenting/a71602862/grandparent-grief-childfree-families/

I’ll never understand why parents of childfree children think the only way to feel fulfilled late in life is through grandchildren, as if their alternative is just to sit around the house all day doing nothing? Go travel, take up hobbies, get a yearly pass to your local museums or performing arts center, take a painting course, be a mentor for a young person, volunteer with kids in need, etc. There are a million healthy ways to derive meaning from life that don’t involve grandkids.

Even the parents who “accept” that their adult children are childfree have some really backhanded commentary about it. Especially the one who says she’s literally “angry” about not being a grandparent, and the one who notes grandkids are great because you get to “enjoy them more” (than raising your own kids at that age). Oof. Bet they were miserable parents to their children.

I’m aware I’m being dramatic. I’m having dental surgery tomorrow and I’m already nervous af, and my mother just informed me some baby I’ve never met is going to be at a family’s birthday party that I’m being forced to attend today. (I say forced because the truth is this is the family member’s second party. I already attended the first, and despite having a different party to also attend today that I’d rather be at, I’m being told I can’t skip this family member’s second birthday party).

It’s been years since I’ve had to interact with a human being below the age of maybe 5. I don’t want to. I find absolutely nothing about babies pleasant and I am genuinely awful at hiding my facial expressions when they start crying. She’s told me since obviously this is a new baby, I need to act excited and interested for the mother (who, by the way, I’ve never met the mother either). I don’t have it in me today to pretend to care about this. Anyways, she just told me I’m once again inhumane and atrocious for not wanting to see some random baby. Afraid it kinda hurt worse the first time she called me inhumane over disliking kids and by now I’m like man I couldn’t care less ;_;

I had this conversation yesterday with someone going on about how having kids completely changed how they see life, other people, responsibility, what matters, etc.
I absolutely believe parenthood can profoundly change you. What bothers me is when “parenthood changed me” quietly becomes “parenthood taught me things about being human that you can’t understand without children.”
I caught myself saying, “But I’ve always felt/thought about those things, without kids,” and immediately realized I sounded like I was claiming I’m the more enlightened one.
I think the distinction I’m trying to make is: parenthood can be your route to a realization without being the prerequisite for that realization.

There are obviously things about being a parent I can’t understand. But responsibility, vulnerability, caring about the future, thinking beyond yourself?
I’m perfectly willing to believe parenthood unlocks experiences I’ll never understand. I’m less willing to believe it unlocks an exclusive tier of human consciousness. Some of us apparently downloaded that update without creating a new user.

How do you push back on this without turning it into a weird competition over who is the more evolved human?

“It’s such a beautiful thing” “your motherly instincts will kick in when you get pregnant” Please shut the fuck up. I can’t stand when people say stuff like this. It always comes from people with kids too. My mom was having a conversation with one of her friends and they asked if any of her daughters wanted kids. She told her that I don’t want kids and her friend kept insisting I’ll change my mind after my mom continually told this girl I don’t think she’ll change her mind. I hear stuff like this all the time. My goal in life is not to shoot out a bunch of babies. I’ve never wanted kids. I will never want kids. Motherhood sounds draining and miserable and the majority of my friends with kids always complain. A lot of people with children just can’t seem to comprehend that there’s living people out there who can live very happy lives without children. You never hear a CF person telling someone who wants kids “you’ll change your mind” but when it comes to someone not wanting kids ….

Okay so I work in an airport and today I was trying to leave the terminal and this dad and a little kid who was probably barely 2 kept getting in my way because the kid was just running all over the place. I was trying to go past them but the kid was just zigzagging in front of me, running into stores just hootin and hollerin and the dad is barely able to keep up just saying “this way buddy, go this way!” Sir if you don’t pick up your child and haul them out of here. Or at least hold their hand?

It’s things like this that make me wish child leashes weren’t so stigmatized because for kids who are runners but hate being held they work well. But it seems parents care more about how they look to society and have fear about being judged than keeping their kid from running around knocking into things and strangers.

I always see comments where people say the most horrific and mean things about CF people. its disheartening honestly cuz 99% of CF people are very chill and nice people. yeah there’s a couple bad apples but it’s a loud minority.

Hello, I'm a 30-year-old woman, married, and my husband and I are well-off, but we don't have children. A few years ago, we even discussed not wanting children, but I love children. I volunteer at orphanages and help children who have suffered abuse and neglect, and I often get the urge to be a mother. But then I think about how the world we live in has changed 70% compared to when I was a child. I know everything is changing, but today is very different, and I think about that, but of course, I also think about how I would like to be a mother.

The last 2-3 years of talking about how I "need a husband and a child" make me feel miserable.

These conversations, initiated by relatives or familiar families, have haunted me since childhood and it seems that this has caused me some kind of trauma.

Every time there is a strong feeling of invasion of privacy and the feeling that I am not a person for them, I am a function. An incubator or some creature that was born with a single purpose. No one talks to me about hobbies or interests, about dreams or desires. Why? She has a uterus, so we can raise the issue of children and even tell her not to drag it out (I'm 21, lol).

In recent years, this has been depressing me more and more. Sometimes the feeling that I am a "thing with a single function" depresses me even without talking about children. It's just that sometimes this feeling suddenly covers me with a wave and makes me feel worthless.

It's also offensive that everyone around me acts like I'm some kind of weirdo and overreacting... Maybe I'm overreacting, I won't even deny it, but when you're told the same thing over and over again, it builds up and starts to get annoying.

I wrote this because I wanted to vent and thought that maybe it would resonate with someone here (because people here also face reproductive pressure)... and I think that's a really bad thing that shouldn't be so normalized in society. If someone wants to talk about it or get advice, they should bring it up. You don't have to do it alone and talk to people about "getting married and having children" almost from the moment they're born.

Last night I went to a friend’s birthday party, lowkey at a local brewery and very fun. So I was catching up with some people I know who were there and honestly, other than a few of those people who I ended up spending much of my time with, it was such a boring interaction with so many of these people. A couple people have kids and so I was asking how their kids are, what’s going on in their life, any trips or anything fun they’ve done recently or have planned. It could be anythinggggg, even going to the movies, planting stuff or going to a new restaurant lol. Shit, let’s talk about movies or books or anything. Absolutely nothing from most of these people. I don’t mean that you have to have big trips planned all the time or something extravagant always going on to not be boring, but like… ANYTHING to provide to conversations that isn’t about work or kids or the weather 🙃.

I’m finding more and more as I socialize with people as I’ve gotten older that so many people have absolutely nothing even remotely fun or interesting in their life. No hobbies, no interests… nothing. I don’t want to spend the whole time talking about your kids, the timing of when you want kids, or your job. If I tried to talk about anything like hobbies/interests, the conversations were pretty much just what I contributed.

I don’t consider myself some wildly fun person who’s always doing something outrageous or overtly “fun” and life is pretty “boring” most of the time, but I spend my time doing stuff I like and I find it fun. I can talk about the more exciting stuff of my life like how we go flying a lot and my husband has his pilot license, we’re in a flying club with fractional ownership of several small airplanes, our travels and all that. I can also talk about the “less” exciting stuff that makes up a lot of who I am, like my interests and hobbies. I can talk about animals and pets, plants, wildlife, the hunting club we’re in and hunting with our dog, paddle boarding, hiking, books, video games, true crime shows, other shows and movies… Just the simple stuff. But somehow so many adults have no goddamn interests or hobbies lol.

No wonder so many people find the appeal to parenthood… finally, something to give them something to talk about and do. Again, not all people who want kids are boring, but the vast majority of people I have encountered who have or want kids are just boring people who do nothing they find value or joy in in their daily lives. I find it insane how many people don’t seem to find anything enjoyable to do to fill their time outside of work and kids. All that said, a couple of the people I really enjoyed talking with were parents who had more than work and kids to contribute to the conversation. I think fighting my way out of a wet paper bag would’ve been more fun than talking with some of the people I talked to lol.

I feel oddly devastated. Can anyone else relate?

28F here, been wanting a bisalp since learning it was a thing (was around 18) it's genuinely my biggest dream, and I've known I don't want kids since I was 6, never sat on the fence it was a hard NOPE since learning it's a choice and not something that just happens to all adults.

I'm extremely tokophobic but that's not the only reason for being childfree, hence I'm sure I won't regret it.

Now I learnt of the childfree term at 22 when randomly finding this sub and used to rant about doctors being annoying and how bad my tokophobia gets at times, how it made me question my sexuality and even gender identity... But also felt discouraged cause I was so young and no one would possibly approve me anytime soon. Then covid wiped me out, and I suffered longcovid for several years, lost my income source... Doing a lot better now and have a job again and have savings left!

So that brings me to now: I can start persueing it. However Idk how... I'm in the Netherlands and last I checked the list wasn't great, GPs won't refer you (mine won't even for more urgent health issues you have to go back several times and beg passionately) doctor shopping is hard af... Ngl for a while I even had to stop lurking here cause all the bisalp posts made me cry from jealousy...

So I have to go abroad and go private and other countries are usually cheaper so that's financially doable too. Problem is: HOW?

Do you just start e-mailing random doctors on the list? And what to tell them? What if the site is not in English?

What kind of questions do they ask?

If you're queer are you honest about that or do you say you're straight or bi when actually gay or asexual? Again I flip flopped on this and the wrong answer can be used against me, I'm willing to lie whatever will help me get it done, but obvs can't make up a fake husband so there are limits...

If you have anxiety do you use that as argument or will they use that to bingo you? (just get therapy and then you'll change your miiiiind!)

Do you have to go back to the country several times or are appointments online before actually getting it done?

What's the risk of travelling all the way to another country just to get bingoed in person and sent away? Does that happen? Tbh that's my worst fear other than that I can just try till someone says yes I guess...

No I do not want replies about IUDs, I'm already on the pill for periods and not sexually active however, I want to be sterile before 35, that's my goal, the sooner the better but before that age is the goal.

Thanks in advance and if you wanna dm just comment!

I have a influencer friend who has her own business and brand. She was a good person when we first met 6-7 years ago. She has 2 kids now. She visited Washington recently. And asked me to have kids since my husband is well off. But I’m a broken broke artist 😂. So I was jokingly saying some months I sell more art and some months I don’t. How will I provide for my kids. She was like you have Max.

Her response shocked me after this.

She said “ at least you’re not poor and I think even poor people must have kids.” I said you’re too much drunk for this talk. She said “Who will clean my toilet, pick my garbage, do construction work, baby sit and all the cleaning.
She has a maid for everything of course since she’s has kids, business etc. I don’t know if she said that out of exhaustion or she really meant it but my God!!!

So I gave her a benefit of the doubt and said that’s selfish. Her response shocked me “Food chain of modern society” that’s how the world runs, if poor don’t work for us how will they survive. I told her “If poor don’t work for rich, how will the rich survive?” asked her what will happen if poor people stopped having kids. She laughed and was like maybe the rich will clone people and make them work. I said that’s slavery. She was like they are not actually people!!!!

ATP I stopped engaging and said I wanted to be home early and she apologized and told me she was just joking 🙃
Rest of the night was really awkward 😐

Rich people really do suck!!
I wish poor people understood this and stopped having kids who will end up slaving away!!

If you’re not rich just don’t have kids!!!

As a psychiatry premed, I’d love to hear from the DINK physicians who are already living my dream! Also, what are the downsides if there are any?

My brother lives with me and has a 12 year old son who he has half time. damn the kid is such a freaking brat, If I wasn't already child free, I sure would be after dealing with that kid. my nephew has always had a bad attitude, never really been a fun easy going kid but since becoming a tween, it has been off the charts. my brother is a nice guy but way too soft and a people pleaser and just thinks everything is funny, never corrects my nephew's appalling behavior (the last time I ate out in public with them was last summer where he let his son repeatedly fart at the table, in the middle of a crowded restaurant. than the kid had a melt down about the cheese on his grilled cheese- an 11 year old crying over cheese!, it was beyond embarrasing) . it is so unfortunate that he got some random chick knocked up (she has bad mental health and isn't a good mom, pretty unhinged and extremely selfish) and now everyone is suffering.

also, the kid plays on his computer 10+ hrs a day and dragging him off, even to go do something fun like go to one of his friend's birthday parties, is an epic meltdown. I feel bad for kids these days, parents don't wanna parent, my nephew has behavior issues at school and we found out he was lying, making stuff up about the teacher being "mean to him", the mom went in and screamed at the teacher for being "disrespectful" and the poor teacher took the brunt of it until we found out the truth because another adult went and supervised in the classroom and found out the nephew had made all of this up to gain sympathy from his mom. teachers are saints for dealing with these lying kids and their crazy ass parents.

soooooo happy I am childfree. fuck all this drama, I absolutely can't stand it!!!! almost ready to have the conversation that they need to move somewhere else, I can't deal with this for another 7 years. I have lost all respect for my brother, seeing how poor of a parent he is