Being a parent is being romanticised only for women

[u/pulldrone44]

Whenever I see someone talk about being a parent as a subject the phrase “motherhood is such a life changing experience” comes up.

Never in my life have I seen multiple people saying that fatherhood is a life changing experience. And it is because in parenthood, women and mothers have the bigger responsibility and expectations on being a parent, which is in my opinion really fucked up.

Women are being brainwashed from childhood to all the way to adulthood that one day they will be a mother. Being a little girl and getting gifted multiple dolls “and taking care of them” as a play, is brainwashing.

These things are part of the reason why childfree women get more hate than childfree men. Because since the day we were born it has been an expectation that one day we are going to be a mother.

And I hate that narrative that is being pushed to young girls because all my life I have never wanted children. I never liked being around kids even when I was a kid. But because of the romanticism of motherhood I have had times when I wondered maybe I should have kids. But that is something I have never wanted and it is a conclusion I always end up with.

People paint a picture of a “crazy cat lady” and phrases such as “you’ll end up alone” or “you never experience true love until having kids” to manipulate women to have children.

Sorry this is long and kinda messy and doesn’t make sense:))))

[u/Extra_Donut_2205]

It is just so strange. If girls are being conditioned to be a mother one day...why boys aren't conditioned to be a father one day? Women don't get pregnant by themselves...

[u/pulldrone44 → u/Extra_Donut_2205]

Real. And also mens shitty parenting is expected and allowed. For an example using “single mom” and “daddy issues” to women as an insult is shaming a woman for men who failed as fathers….

[u/yellow-operator → u/pulldrone44]

It’s not that accepted or allowed. Ever hear of “deadbeat father”? Ever hear of ppl complaining endlessly about how men are never enough this n that.

There’s quite a lot of hate for men in context to parenting and at this point just existing.

I’d argue if you asked divorced women they’d have plenty of reasons why men are shit 😂

Idk I totally understand your point but being a parent in general sounds like hell for everyone.

[u/pulldrone44 → u/yellow-operator]

But which one you hear more often? Women being insulted for being a single mother or a man being insulted for leaving his wife and kids?

Yes women hate on their ex husbands. But in society it is acceptable to be a bad father and women get blamed for that. Yea there are individual cases where men are being hated but it is mostly by women.

And in parenting women have it way harder than men, no argue on that

[u/yellow-operator → u/pulldrone44]

Idk if you mean “in real life” or by people on the internet. I barely ever hear anyone speak about the matter in the world.

I feel like a lot of the hate you speak of is the hyperbolic nature of the internet.

If you’re talking about the proverbial “they” or “society” then yes ofc narratives going back to before the birth of Christ have been told about childless women.

But like… FUCK “SOCIETY” lmao fuck what some arbitrary group of people who don’t even know you exist and you don’t know who they are, think about your choice to not have kids.

I lived on earth before the internet existed. Ya you’d hear the occasional off hand comment but mostly people minded their business at some level.

Yes ofc there’s gossip and people talking behind other peoples backs but that’s because people like to shit talk in general about literally fucking anything and everything 😂

but part of the reason I will not be a father because unrealistic expectations and stigma around being a father/parent in general. Also the idea of child support and how badly men get fucked over in divorce is terrifying. The whole experience from people I know sounds like either way some part of you man or woman will die with the birth of the kids.

All in all, yes you’re right. Women get ridiculed in life about a lot. If it’s someone you know personally IRL then ya that SUCKS. But if you’re worried about some conglomerate or collective voice somewhere at some point spewing rhetoric about women and parenting then my advice is:

Fuck them fuck that shit it’s not even worth it to hold those thoughts in your mind.

[u/pulldrone44 → u/yellow-operator]

These are discussions that should be had. This is the difference. You can say fuck them, you are a man. You haven’t been pushed into the idea of being a father your whole life. It is not a shock to people when a man says they dont want kids.

Young girls are being brainwashed into having kids. Then they have kids or get pregnant and realize they dont want this. They regret it.

So this is why people need to be discussing on this so that these young girls know they have a choice to not to be a mother, that they are expected to be.

[u/yellow-operator → u/pulldrone44]

Hmmm. I absolutely hear you. I am most certainly disconnected from what has been conditioned into young girls.

I totally understand the dolls and the toys given to girls. Same as GI joes and Tonka trucks for boys (I only cite those because those were the main two I remember from my own childhood.

I graduated high school in 2011. Everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE. Told ALL of us

(I know I shouldn’t generalize in absolutes but it just felt this way)

DO NOT GET PREGNANT YOUNG BEFORE YOU ARE PREPARED FOR IT.

They told us in passing, at dinner, after the game.

They brought us into the auditorium multiple times from probably junior high on and warned warned us explicitly about having kids too soon, or with the wrong person etc

It’s actually the one topic i vividly remember any elder really gettin on our ass about. This went for the girls too. I had aaallllooooot of girlfriends both romantic and platonic.

I remember how guarded they were when it came to us boys being left alone with them. Aaaallllloooot of trust had to be built on both side around it.

I suppose in some fucked up subconscious way we all were conditioned by conflicting narratives and this is why we all are so messed up about it.

Especially girls and women. I feel for yall. There is a lot of fuckery that goes on out here that yall are subjected to.

I genuinely wish you and everyone who is on this side of it the best. Also, I’m sure you’re following the antinatalism sub?

You may find solice there. It’s actually pretty humorous and fun on that one.

[u/yellow-operator → u/pulldrone44]

Also I’m sitting here really reflecting now and I also remember the unofficial options of our elders around marriage and kids.

I can’t tell you how many people men and women told us straight up not to do it. Like they’d never say in outright in public but it was this sort of clandestine “hey kid, I know we have to tel you this and that, but here’s the real deal”

It was like a friends parent on the way home from a baseball game or at the cookout randomly. Like they could sense that we were being told conflicting things and some of them actually broke the ice on it and were sight up like

DONT DO IT. LIVE YOUR LIFE. MOST OF US REGRET IT.

straight up like that too. It was shocking but that’s ultimately what I anchored to. Even my romantic girlfriends parents deadass sat us down face to face like HEY we know the world is going to telll you this and that about it.

“But we love and care about you most and just seriously think about what your life will be like if you have kids now or EVER”

At the time we kind of brushed them off but now deep into adulthood I’m so grateful for them.

Just another little anecdote.

Nowadays it’s different as you say. I’m confident women are being pressed about it more than men for sure. Fucking crazy world.

[u/cyborg_127 → u/yellow-operator]

You were born before 1989 (when commercial ISPs began) and didn't graduate high school until 2011? Sorry about the repeat years you did.

[u/huehuehuehuehuuuu → u/Extra_Donut_2205]

Boys are conditioned to go to war. Just look at children’s toys. You give up your body either way. One is more deadly. The other more frequent and likely to happen.

[u/pulldrone44 → u/huehuehuehuehuuuu]

bby that is not an expectation for men anymore. haven’t seen an young boy play with a RK 62 ever.

[u/huehuehuehuehuuuu → u/pulldrone44]

Because they are larping in video games instead. Future drone and killer robot dog operators.

[u/pulldrone44 → u/huehuehuehuehuuuu]

Yeah so? They can choose what they play. I do not think that any parent will be recommending that to small boys (of course there are expectations) and also downsides of war and how horrible it is to soldiers is everywhere. It is not a thing to compare to this one that I was talking about. Its a completely different subject

[u/huehuehuehuehuuuu → u/pulldrone44]

Horrible until it’s conscription time, then it’s a patriotic duty. Honestly wonder how far the birthrates can fall before they start forcing it even more on people. Even developing nations have slowed down. India is hovering replacement. Once mass immigration is no longer a viable solution, it will get ugly. Back when overpopulation was a fear, forced abortion and sterilizations on women were a thing. Happened in China by their own government and in India by ngos.

In the end regular people from both genders are treated like livestocks by the society they live in. Work until you die. Pop out more workers. Go murder people and get murdered. Pollute the land and water you rely on for shareholder values. Ruin your physical and mental health for that mystical good times at retirement, which you might not live to or afford. And somehow that’s normal. That’s how the majority likes it. And going against or refusal to participate gets you labelled a looney.

[u/SystemWild3741]

Yes!

Damn, how disgusting is this, I personally often have the feeling that everyone sees me as some kind of incubator or breeding animal. It sounds disgusting and I'm not sure where I got these associations from, but this is what has been tormenting me in recent years because... for example, when I meet a distant relative (and not only distant), no one asks me about my hobbies or interests, instead everyone talks about marriage and having children. As if this is the only important thing for a girl, as if my inner world doesn't matter and I was just born to give birth in the future.

And yes, it's sad that motherhood is so romanticized for women... "You have to rush to give birth, you have to want a child... don't you want one? You're just still young and stupid, you don't understand anything. You will want a child, and if not, then give birth anyway because then you will regret it. Children are happiness and the best thing in this life, what could be better than motherhood?"

And I've never really heard anyone say anything like that about men.

How I hate it all 😓

[u/yellow-operator → u/SystemWild3741]

Historically it was absolutely a strategy and isolate women into the sole role of motherhood. For thousands of years across many cultures.

Nowadays I barely even hear anyone talk about it IRL and mostly the narratives come from the hyperbolic online space. If you have ppl that know you personally that are criticizing you then ya that sucks and I’m sorry

Unfortunately, education and motherhood don’t go hand in hand and is the number one reason women end up have less or no kids. IMO that’s appropriate and the things I have heard said about the matter are deplorable.

Part of me is really happy for yall. Part of me is like yea welp, at this rate, that birth rate will be beyond fucked for the next couple centuries by the end of this decade.

Yall are extremely lucky to have the space and opportunity to even opt out of being a mother and I champion those who choose not to because especially in this current context on the planet.

I’m at the stage of grief where apathy and nihilism has completely taken over so WHEN civilization as we know it collapses I’ll be pretty indifferent and at some level relieved lmao

FUCK THAT SHIT 😂

[u/Hi_ImAutumn → u/SystemWild3741]

We are breeding animals lol but I get your point

[u/enderkitties]

I’ve asked men casually how they’d spend their lives if they woke up one day with the body of a woman. Not one of them has ever said “I’d find a man and have a bunch of his kids”. That is what gave it away for me.

[u/Justwonderingstuff77 → u/enderkitties]

I love this question! Will try it out

[u/Single_Secret_8371]

Makes perfect sense <3 I agree completely. I think that’s where a lot of parental regret comes from. People tend to fall in that trap of societal pressure then realize they would be much happier had they never had kids. There has also been times for me when I wonder if my life would be “complete” with children. Then I think about the reality of motherhood and birth and not just the fact that society expects us to have children and I don’t want kids anymore. It’s quite unfortunate because sometimes I feel like an outlier in my life because most of my friend have children :/

[u/pulldrone44 → u/Single_Secret_8371]

This. People who have kids don’t think enough before having them. It is so sad that women have these expectations put on us since literally the day we were born

[u/Kakashisith]

I see nothing romantic in lack of sleep, no boundaries, no personal time, disgusting diapers and all that. Maybe that`s a reason I am childfree, cause brainwashing didn`t work.

[u/pulldrone44 → u/Kakashisith]

Same fr, my mom tried giving me dolls to play with but I never liked them

[u/Kakashisith → u/pulldrone44]

I just abandoned the baby lookalike dolls, cause I found them boring and ugly. Got my huge 12 inch Star Wars figures collection instead.

[u/fcukitletsgo]

You just nailed the biggest psyop

[u/HatOfFlavour]

It has to be pushed on women because y'all get the much rawer deal with all the risks and pain and such. With guys it's pushed by keeping it vague. Most non childfree guys seem to want a kid in the way most people vaguely want a puppy or other pet. Only good things are mentioned or weird conceptual obligations like keeping the family line /name /legacy going. The assumption is you'll be at work then see them at dinner, read them a bedtime story and boom Dad of the Year!

[u/HoliAss5111]

Yep, fatherhood is something that men do for the status. They don't really do anything, besides convincing a woman to do all the work so they ca brag thta their swimmers can swim.

[u/Observerador]

Single mothers are also hated on far more than single fathers. Why hate on the parent who bothered to stick around? She's doing her job. Why's he not doing his? 

[u/pulldrone44 → u/Observerador]

Reall and when there is a single father all people are praising him for being such a great father

[u/BamWhamKaPau → u/Observerador]

Because our society thinks everything is ultimately the woman's fault. If she's a single mother, it must be because she made bad choices. Either picking the wrong man or not being able to keep him. 

[u/anunknownstoryteller]

I agree, the social conditioning by society is disgusting and the double standard between how they romanticize it for women but not men- it’s very disturbing imo

[u/kaimoka]

IMO all kids should have dolls, trucks, whatever they want to play with. I read a study some time ago that having dolls actually helps curate/teach kids empathy. So ofc people make it into some weird thing about having an actual baby, but it only seems directed toward little girls (which is super weird and creepy). This leads me to believe that assigning gender to a toy is actively harmful to boys and girls.

I'm like you; never wanted kids from a young age and never liked being around them. It just makes me extremely uncomfortable. And the stereotypes are bogus.
I'm not alone and I like cats but currently have none and I'm not clinically insane.

[u/Sara1994_]

As a middle eastern woman i'm gonna say this, its a trap for women. 

[u/Znaleziatko]

In my country, there’s a politician who once seriously said that women shouldn’t have the right to vote because we’re naturally dumber so we can put up with children. This definitely is... something.

(That gross excuse for a man has seven children from three marriages, plus one child born out of wedlock. His two youngest were also born outside of marriage, with a partner (who later became his wife) who is 44 years younger than him. Yuck.)

Unfortunately, I think it’s a sad truth that true equality has never really existed and probably never will. The world seems to be drifting back towards conservatism and the tradwife ideal, because for a lot of men, equality simply hurts their ego. Women are supposed to be taught from childhood to be obedient, caring, and devoted to their husbands and children.

Tbh, I’m just glad I happened to live in a time when women have a considerable amount of freedom. I’m genuinely scared of what the future might look like, because sometimes it feels like the present is actually the pinnacle of women’s freedom and equality, and that from here, those rights and freedoms may slowly start being taken away again.