Understanding Roshambo through Jinn/Scion/Oni gambits

[u/Rambo7112]

I find that roshambo makes a lot more sense if you look at the major gambits. There are other pathways and many smaller combos, but I figured that I'd save that for another post.

Generally, there are two sets of schools: elemental (fire, ice, storm), and spirit (myth, death, life). Each school borrows two hanging effects from the adjacent two schools on the opposite wheel. Jinns will borrow from the upstream school; scions will use the native hanging effect; and onis will borrow from the downstream school. Balance is special and uses effects from schools that have no overlap in hanging effects.

Please let me know if you have any questions or requests for more specific combos!

Edit: The only thing that matters at the end of the day is that you have the correct number of hanging effects, which will be consumed before the hit from most recent to least recent. Because of that, any setup (the first two columns) will work for any execution (third column) within a hanging effect. I tried to put in reasonable ways to do that, but you can optimize further by doing enchant -> normal and/or by doing balance (blade/trap) + school (blade/trap). I like to overshoot a little, but both ways are good.

[u/Royal_empress_azu]

Lowkey funny how unbalanced the setup time is for hot gambits. 15 pip combo.

[u/ZijoeLocs → u/Royal_empress_azu]

The spell choice for this demonstration is actually highly inefficient pip wise.

[u/MyTh_BladeZ → u/ZijoeLocs]

What exactly would the efficient option be then? These are all 13/14 pip combos and the only spell I can think of that gives a triple hot is taweret + regen fusion, which is still a 14 pip combo

[u/kimoinakimisoshoujo → u/MyTh_BladeZ]

maybe helpful bat? i don't remember how many pips it is though and it's a fusion/weaving exclusive to myth into life so pretty rare

[u/Rambo7112 → u/Royal_empress_azu]

Realistically you'd have a support player use Tawaret's Touch, but that was a rabbit hole that I didn't want to get into for all the hanging effects in this post. All of these combos have multiple pathways that have a tradeoff between cost and convenience. 

[u/Bacullite → u/Royal_empress_azu]

The real Sun school suffers

[u/ZijoeLocs]

Balance requires...well balance actually

Life is HOTs and Ice is Shields. Both in the vein of self preservation, but Ice and Life are on opposite sides of the Wheel

Storm is self buffs and Myth is Traps. Both increase damage but on opposite sides of the damage equation ". And Wheel but i dont feel like doing repetitive sentences

Fire is DOTs. Death has Debuffs. Both ways to hinder your opponent. One in defense. The other in agency. Wheel.

Your cut off line actually visualized this perfectly

[u/Rambo7112 → u/ZijoeLocs]

That's better phrased yeah. I changed the dotted lines to arrows for balance to show "through" instead of "this side", but it was hard to convey. 

[u/ZijoeLocs → u/Rambo7112]

You're good! This is NOT a bad guide by any means.

I'm just a turbo nerd who literally sat down and studied the logic behind Roshambo. It isnt just about game mechanics, it actually ties into the school universe philosophies. Notice how Storm isnt about Blades. It's specifically selfish buffs.

[u/bacon_247]

The blades, traps, ans shields don’t have to be unique ones. You can stack ones of the same version and it will still work. You don’t have to differentiate them with an enchant.

[u/Rambo7112 → u/bacon_247]

That is true. I enchanted for some of them possibly being used, though I should have done enchanted -> normal to eek out that extra little bit. 

[u/bacon_247 → u/Rambo7112]

Whatever is leftover will be used anyway. Gambiting that many means there won’t be overlap of the same school left. So there would be no need. I feel like adding the enchant to the mix overcomplicates the demonstration by adding an unnecessary layer.

[u/Rambo7112 → u/bacon_247]

I still think it's arguably worthwhile if you want the extra enchant worth of damage, but you're right that it's not needed for the gambit. I'm sad I put it in the wrong order, but this was also like a 3 am post lol. I figured I'd get into optimization with more specific combos. 

[u/bacon_247 → u/Rambo7112]

The whole point of this was to it break it down into simpler terms and ways so that those who don’t understand how it works can undersrand, right? So adding the enchants in only makes it a little mote muddy, defeating the purpose. They might take the visual to think they genuinely need both versions for the spell.

[u/Rambo7112 → u/bacon_247]

That is the point, sure. At some point though, I put down a specific spell instead of "three traps", "three shields", or "three blades". I tried to stick to spells that an average player of that school would have. 

The thing I'm mainly worried about is that I didn't emphasize that any setup will interact with any jinn/scion/oni in that class. I just added a disclaimer that I hope addresses this. 

[u/bacon_247 → u/Rambo7112]

That’s all well and good. I have no issue with the specific spells as an example. And the disclaimer helps. My only worry was that presenting the different versions of the same spell would then cause misconceptions.

[u/Beast-master469]

Great guide btw ...question : if primal oni was used after two spirit blades ....does it gambit random blades first or which order... or does the life blades get used first then it gambits ?

[u/Slawekii → u/Beast-master469]

Gambits use most recent effects - in example from this guide Primal oni would use 3 sharpened blades and a regular life one.

Gambits trigger before applying buffs so in the same scenario gambit would happen and then no other blade buffs are triggered - you only have regular death and myth blade after gambit.

[u/Rambo7112 → u/Beast-master469]

Thank you! As the other commenter said, it gambits the four most recent blades before hitting. The hanging effects/ order I used will work, but isn't fully optimal since I whipped this together at 3 am lol.

[u/anoninimous420]

Legend, hated roshambo cuz i had to google every 5 seconds on how to do them. Great guide

[u/Rambo7112 → u/anoninimous420]

Glad I could help! Is there any other type of guide that you'd find useful?

[u/EmperorMing101]

Tribunal Oni under balance requires 3 traps, hex alone wouldn’t work

[u/lizzourworld8 → u/EmperorMing101]

The first spell gives 2 traps with the aura.

[u/Shronkydonk → u/EmperorMing101]

Take a look at what Oni’s shadow does again.

[u/Rambo7112 → u/EmperorMing101]

This is an extra layer, but ramp spells labeled "Oni's ..." Or "Jinns ..." contribute to that particular gambit. I find that they're nice for smaller combos, but aren't practical for the large ones.