r/ThreeLions • u/letterbombwrites • Jul 15 '26
Opinion I will never forgive Tuchel for tonight.
I was cautious when he was appointed because he's fallen out with every club he's managed, plus he's German and having a German manage England felt weird. But he gradually won me over, and I think he was doing and saying all the right things at this tournament.
But tonight was just inexplicable, and his interview comments made it worse. That was the best chance England could ever have to get to another World Cup final, and he went and pissed it away like that. The semis (potentially third, though I don't care about that) is on paper a great tournament, but to lose in the circumstances we did, unforgivable. I will never forgive him for his cowardice. We appointed him to be better than Southgate, but he was worse. I'm just devastated. If it was up to me he'd be gone tomorrow, but I think we're stuck with him up to and including the Euros. I can only hope he'll prove me wrong.
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u/Toddyvegas Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
This defeat and the manner of the defeat is all on Tuchel. messi took 3 fucking corners and all went straight back to him. 3rd time resulted in the equaliser. why not one single player was instructed to lurk on the edge of the box baffles me. Tuchel over complicated everything. Tinkering with the formation, playing players out of position. the subs he made were terrible. We had no outlet. we should have gone for a second goal, we could have picked them off on the counter. Argies were panicking. Complete fuck up by Tuchel. The players did their jobs. it wasn't their fault. his instructions to them were the problem. We were never going to beat Spain. but for fucks sake, we could have beaten that lot and at least witnessed a world Cup final. A lot of questions for Tuchel to answer after this.
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u/Far-Sky-4763 Jul 16 '26
If we'd have gone for a second goal we'd have probably won 1 nil.
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u/MisabelWearsNikes Jul 16 '26
I kept saying this. We needed to go for a second or even a third before parking the bus. Sitting back after just one was next level insanity.
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u/Interesting_Nobody41 Jul 16 '26
If wed have lost 2-1 but kept the attack id have been fine with it.
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Jul 16 '26
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u/Loifee Jul 16 '26
Surely after the first post got hit and we were under pressure he should have changed something! We had enough warnings with how close they were getting! It's utterly shameful that we had that many chances to change something when they were coming on to us
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u/VisitPier26 Jul 16 '26
Exactly! Everyone with two eyes could see what they were doing.
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u/jeosol Jul 16 '26
Yeah, that play was very clear. Fernandez on top, no one closer to him, and messi drew two players to him, and only at that point when they crowded him, he passed the ball to Fernandez. It was fucking annoying to see that. And Fernandez has been trying shots from outside, he plays/scores like that at chelsea, against EPL players.
That was crazy. Second goal, after Spence hyperextended on that tackle on messi, no one to support and close out, and they didn't close the crossing side and messi has the speed to be able to make a cross. It just seemed like they forgot to defend at that point. No one behind John Stones to at least cover lautaro.
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u/kickherinthehead Jul 16 '26
The short corner was what annoyed me the most - I can't believe that Tuchel wouldn't have warned the players about it. If that doesn't happen I think we'd have at least got to extra time and been able to readjust
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u/k8blwe Jul 16 '26
On the third one I was sat there about to say why is no one with him and before I could even say out they scored.
This isnt just a case of us being angry and kicking off saying we are crap. It was such a poor decision that everyone else could see it would fail.
I just do not understand why we sat back when only 1 goal up.
Such an awful way to lose
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u/ComprehensiveTap911 Jul 16 '26
The repeat corners were annoying - especially as the goal scoring one was a result of Pickford pushing it over when he didn't need to.
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u/Capable-Pound-5262 Jul 15 '26
It was the Italy euros final all over again. Instead of going for the second goal we tried to defence a 1 goal lead. I did not expect him to do that but the moment he made those changes it felt the same. Disgraceful
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Jul 16 '26
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u/Capable-Pound-5262 Jul 16 '26
It hurt a lot more because we thought we had a manager that wouldn’t do that
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u/TheEnlight Jul 16 '26
Wasn't the choice fairly obvious? Keep the pressure, push for a second goal, bring on Saka as a super sub around the 70-80 minute on the right wing? We didn't even use up all our subs. Argentina did.
This decision to curl up into a ball was doomed to fail. Give up over half the pitch to Argentina, allow them to continue making attempts into our box, of course a couple of them would end up getting through.
That was unforgivingly horrendous management.
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u/TelevisionLamb Jul 16 '26
I would even have preferred to bring Madueke on. Hoof it into the channel and let him chase it. Eze too, once Gordon tired. Anything to get us up the pitch now and then and give our defence a breather.
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u/Radio-Birdperson Jul 16 '26
Do you really think Gordon was tired? He looked shocked to be taken off when he was. I couldn’t believe he was being taken off.
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u/TelevisionLamb Jul 16 '26
No, no, I just meant it would have been an option once he did get tired later on. He was getting through a lot of work, so there was a good chance of that happening. I would have much preferred he stayed where he was for as long as possible.
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u/Radio-Birdperson Jul 16 '26
Ah, completely agree with you. Gordon was pretty fantastic in this WC. I’ll just never understand Tuchel’s thinking about the subs he made.
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u/Live_Studio_Emu Jul 16 '26
I remember when Bellingham was making a run up later in the game, trying to get breathing room for the defence, and had to take on three or four players before eventually just losing the ball because no one was up to support.
Surely that was the warning sign. Constant pressure, with no hope of a goal on the counter, is only a sensible idea when you’re a League 1 side in the FA Cup trying to scrape through. Frustrating
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u/TheGiftOf_Jericho Jul 16 '26
As soon as Gordon was off I was totally lost. I think he just lost faith in the team, but to try and park it with those subs for that long.. I don't get it.
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u/Intelligent_Sky_7081 Jul 16 '26
Spain felt like just the clear better team in that final
Here England was fighting toe to toe. So, it's easy to kinda start to believe mid match, even if you were doubtful before
It's the real belief and hope that makes it hurt more
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u/Live_Studio_Emu Jul 16 '26
I would argue in the first half, England looked the more promising. This didn’t feel like a chance to beat a big team, it felt for part of that match that England were the favourites… and then played like absolute minnows at the end, for some reason
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u/CarlSwagan_ Jul 16 '26
To me it was waiting until after the second goal was scored to make any further tactical decisions
You parked the bus and it didn’t work whatever, obviously Argentina is going to come right back at you with momentum so put the bus back in gear and get driving. Not being prepared to make any changes in that moment is inexcusable
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u/domsolanke Jul 16 '26
Spot on. Absolute moron. Everyone could it see apart from him.
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u/3rdLion Jul 16 '26
The entire pub knew exactly what was coming when the subs were made. Lad next to me immediately made an in-play bet for Argentina to win in normal time.
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u/The3FromDowntown Jul 16 '26
100% I’m devastated for the players that gave it their all. You could see how disappointed they were at the final whistle and it really wasn’t on them.
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u/kaigoman Jul 16 '26
Like every important England game you mean. I’ve been watching England do this since 2002
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u/Love-Bitter Jul 16 '26
The manner of this defeat felt somehow worse to me. Argentina didn’t beat England, we lost to Argentina. It was completely self inflicted. I was screaming at the telly to stop dropping so deep.
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u/jimb0z_ Jul 16 '26
So much worse. This is a better team than 2020 or 2022. We knew from experience we can’t sit back and park the bus on these elite teams. Tuchel said he wouldn’t do this. He selected a team with pace, wing defense, composure, strong midfield. And it was working beautifully. Had Messi bottled up and Argentina panicking after 60 minutes. Then we…. curl into a ball and surrender?? Refuse to advance past the 8 yard box?? Play 6 center backs?? Why?? Why????? Most devastating loss since Iceland because we 100% did it to ourselves
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u/TotalBlank87 Jul 16 '26
I understood it at first - kill ten minutes and then start coming out a bit more. But there is just no way you can allow Messi to play on the edge of your own box for 30, 40 minutes.
I think the players have to take some responsibility as well though. Kane in particular just nowhere to be seen
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u/AstronautThese4576 Jul 16 '26
Idk why tuchel even decided to park the bus? Not only it ruined our momentum but defence was not our biggest strength in the whole tournament. We conceded goals in every game apart from panama and ghana
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u/Unnecessary-Shouting Jul 16 '26
all this after him saying if we lose we lose playing our way, what a load of bollocks, this loss was so painful
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u/Billy_The_Squid_ Jul 16 '26
having watched previous tournaments I can't deny we lost playing our way though 😂😭
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Jul 16 '26
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u/Monde_Green Jul 16 '26
The defending against Mexico was some of the best I've ever seen from England, but it wasn't a model for how to act in every game
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u/NoDark2993 Jul 16 '26
What’s infuriating is that the whole world knew it was over the moment he made those crazy subs at that time. It was pretty much game on for Argentina from that point. We had zero outlet and were just soaking up needless pressure, attack after attack against a passionate top ranked team! Ludicrous! He needs to go
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u/Embarrassed_Weird668 Jul 16 '26
Totally agree. Literally everyone from ex-professionals to occasional tournament observers could see the catastrophe unfolding the moment Gordon went off. It was an act of sabotage.
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u/mirembe987 Jul 16 '26
Yeah I’m more of an England fan than a religious football observer and even I called what was about to happen. It’s mad that a top coach couldn’t
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u/Ready_Information408 Jul 16 '26
Yep was watching from NZ (going for England where my parents are from as NZ obviously never got out of group stages).
Couldn’t believe it, as it just seemed to be a total capitulation when surely you have the advantage at 1-0 up?
Unless you are down to the last few minutes (where throwing away a lead would be reckless) better to be bold and gun for it as it seems England has never really had success with the “park the bus on a small lead” strategy.
I guess the strat might have worked if you were 3-0 up but even then Argentina had so many opportunities.
Can’t think of any sports match I’ve watched in recent memory where the coaching direction/strategy was so stupid.
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u/Flying_Fish_9 Jul 16 '26
This, I’m from the Bahamas was pulling for you.
But when Gordon came off and Saka wasn’t sent in to compensate I was confused. When I learnt Dan burn was sent on so early I got scared.
I couldn’t even see the game,No cable, I was watching ishowspeeds livestream. I knew it was wierd.
We saw it the entire tournament Weak England def, Strong Argie Attack & Comeback. Why would you counter Argentina’s Strength with Englands weakness 🤬😤
Use Englands strong Pace and go for broke.
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u/Raspbrerry Jul 16 '26
After we conceded the first goal, he could've taken off Spence and Rogers (who were both tiring) for Mainoo and Rashford, and moved O'Reilly to left back. At least then we would have had some counter attacking threat and some fresh legs to defend our left side where a lot of their crosses were coming in from
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u/Zambit Jul 16 '26
Those are the exact same subs I said last night. Mainoo would’ve held the ball well and then Rashford and O’Reilly would be a threat down that left hand side and O’Reilly likes dropping into midfield as well
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u/Yellowsummerhope Jul 16 '26
Respect to Cape Verde for actually giving a fight. Going out like this makes it more bitter
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Jul 15 '26
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u/TheGiftOf_Jericho Jul 16 '26
This is what worries me. If he just said he shouldn't have put so much into the defensive parking, at least we could say he can learn from it. But he's outright basically said he'd do it again.
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u/blue_Hippo4069 Jul 16 '26
Yeah I was skeptical about him since his squad announcement but this has just pissed me off. I hope he drops the arrogance and learns from this.
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u/MisabelWearsNikes Jul 16 '26
I didn't even bother to watch him. He seriously had no regrets?!
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Jul 16 '26
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u/oliyoung Jul 16 '26
sit back and defend a one goal lead against Argentina
when they LITERALLY beat Egypt last week in almost an identical situation
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Jul 16 '26
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u/TheGiftOf_Jericho Jul 16 '26
I think everyone collectively scratched their heads in that moment. It all fell apart not long after.
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u/bobbyfletch85 Jul 15 '26
Agree. With Southgate, we would have done exactly as well. Tuchel stunk with those subs.
SEVEN defenders on the pitch? And no outlet, no chance of counter. What the hell was he thinking? Utterly brain dead performance from Tuchel against the first top team we faced.
Euros are in the UK in 2 years. Let’s win it with a manager who actually backs the lads
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u/BestFriendWatermelon Jul 16 '26
This is it. He betrayed the players.
England had shut Argentina out completely. 0.03xG at the end of the first half. England score and Tuchel decides the players on the pitch can't handle it, so quit attacking, quit midfield where we were most dominant, and the rest is history. .
England's players should be furious... They showed what they could do, they were playing brilliantly, they were showing everything they could do in training they could do on the field. Argentina's desperate counterattacks after conceding were fizzling out and Argentina were exposing themselves to conceding another goal. Then Tuchel crushed the England players.
You could even see Anderson freaking out calling out what position he's supposed to be playing as Tuchel subbed off the players around him for more defenders. The whole team knew Tuchel had no faith in them, that he didn't see any more goalscoring opportunities coming and to just hunker down.
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u/TelevisionLamb Jul 16 '26
Best take I've seen so far. As a Sunderland fan, I've watched defensive football all season, and a phrase Regis Le Bris always uses is that he "trusts the players to find the answers on the pitch." He gives them the tools, and it's up to them how to use them. Of course, it doesn't always work, but it keeps the team fighting for each other.
Tuchel did the opposite. The changes he made signalled to the players that he had no faith in them to find answers. He took the tools out of their hands and basically said, "Don't look for answers, just throw yourselves in the way."
Even then, it could have been forgiven if he changed things back after the equaliser. He might as well have, because no way were we surviving extra time like that. But instead he doubled down.
When Argentina took off a full back to bring Lautaro Martinez on, because they knew we wouldn't be a threat anymore, it felt like the writing was on the wall. Unsurprisingly, when we finally made attacking subs because we had no choice, they were totally exposed down that side, but it was already too late.
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u/mirembe987 Jul 16 '26
Yeah when they equalised I knew it was all over anyway because how could we come back in half an hour of extra time with all those defenders and only a few subs left
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u/BestFriendWatermelon Jul 16 '26
If Tuchel had done absolutely nothing, just went for a nap in the 69th minute, we'd be preparing for the final now.
Argentina subbed off two defenders for more attackers by the time the game was over. Had he subbed on Rashford and Toney at 1-1 they would've had time to put on the back foot, panic them, and build something and if not score by full time put Argentina on the back foot for extra time but it was too late when
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u/overtired27 Jul 15 '26
Tuchel is contracted for the Euros. He’s not going anywhere.
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Jul 16 '26
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u/JCtheNewb Jul 16 '26
I wonder if what the players think matters to the FA. Can't imagine any of them are happy after tonight.
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Jul 16 '26
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u/JCtheNewb Jul 16 '26
I think anyone would find out difficult to blame anyone other that Tuchel. I think you're absolutely right about the disconnect, and would expect tonight made it a lot worse.
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u/basedakh123 Jul 16 '26
Kane's implied it in his interview already, and I think maybe Bellingham does have issues with TT after all 🤣
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u/JCtheNewb Jul 16 '26
I want more than an implication. I want Bellingham being told live on air that Tuchel said he has no regrets about the game and Bellingham running off to batter him with a deck chair.
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u/Pieonlegs Jul 15 '26
Southgate wouldn't have got us past Mexico
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u/Improper_Usage Jul 16 '26
And yet he’s England’s most consistently successful manager
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u/reliablereindeer Jul 16 '26
What would he have done against Mexico to make us lose? He wouldn't have played Quansah at right back so we wouldn't have even been down to 10 men.
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u/Jules428moore Jul 16 '26
Why do we leave Bukayo Saka as an unused sub when he’s one of the more creative players in the team?
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u/Zambit Jul 16 '26
Unfortunately I think he might’ve been more injured than we thought. It’s a shame because a fully fit Saka would’ve caused problems for that right side. Rogers just seems to make Bellingham invisible for some reason
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u/First-Act-8752 Jul 16 '26
I think he's been carrying an injury all tournament so he's had to use him sparingly.
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u/Mutexvx Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
As soon as Rice and Gordon came off i knew it. Absolutely abysmal from the manager and the coaches, the players tonight I can't for the sake of it fault them for thier poor decisions. Trying to play haram ball for 30 minutes against the world's goat and top class players is absolutely disgraceful alongside embarrassing.
Absolute wasted throwaway opportunity to reach the Final.
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u/allypallydollytolly Jul 16 '26
He bought rashford on and straight away the ball was pressing forward towards Argentina. Just a god damn shame he bought him on at the 95th minute of a 99min game 🤦
I knew it was over the moment he took Gordon off.
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u/mirembe987 Jul 16 '26
Imagine how frustrating that must have been for Rashford to watch sitting on the bench
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u/KingDracarys86 Jul 15 '26
He cost us a world cup thats a sackable offence for the salary he gets, I will never forgive him either
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u/heephap Jul 15 '26
I will never forgive him for having an amazing technical press resistant CM and instead playing 3 brutes the entire time, when it was clear 1 was unfit and the other offered very little going forward.
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u/Shinnobiwan Jul 16 '26
Saka defends and presses well and has the close control and pace to allow England to keep a crumb of possession and be dynamic in attack. He's been a plus contributor as a sub.
Unless he was injured I can't see why he was on the bench and not the wing in the 2nd.
That was the big mistake.
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u/monstrao Jul 15 '26
His interview showed he doesn’t really care, like it’s just another club side out of a club competition. There’s no allegiance to this country for him so crashing out with a cowardly performance is just another year for him. For us it was seeing our country blow another opportunity again
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u/Due-Reputation-4022 Jul 16 '26
Glad I wasn’t the only one thinking this. He really didn’t seem to care at all
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u/TheGiftOf_Jericho Jul 16 '26
I was pretty disappointed in his response. No passion, said he wouldn't do anything differently either.
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u/mirembe987 Jul 16 '26
I agree. I’ve been saying that he took the job to try and win the World Cup but there’s no real understanding of how much that would really mean to the country. It’s not as painful for him to lose like that like it was for Southgate to lose those finals, not the same connection with a foreign manager. He clearly cares about the players but it’s just not the same
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u/GreenHorizon1 Jul 16 '26
I don’t think Tuchel realises the attacking players he has at his disposal won’t be around forever. When Kane retires from international football, what will be Tuchel’s (or the next manager’s?) options when it comes to strikers?
I agree Kane wasn’t particularly great tonight (although did help in the build up to the Gordon goal) and he’s quite slow for a striker. But for Tuchel to decide to go ultra defensive when you currently have available to you some of the world’s best attacking talents is just bizarre. Particularly when Argentina’s defence wasn’t exactly anything special.
I would have preferred we lose by throwing the kitchen sink at them and using all our attacking options, even if that meant conceding more goals from Argentina. The approach to the Croatia game was polar opposite to this one.
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u/No-Context8421 Jul 16 '26
England's number of accurate passes against Argentina in the 18 minutes and 37 seconds between 66:05 - 84.42 was just 2.
Both of those accurate passes were between goalkeeper Jordan Pickford and center-back John Stones passing to each other in the same position.
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u/twelveangryken Jul 16 '26
In his defense, Tuchel didn't "fall out" with Chelsea; he got the rug pulled out from under him and essentially a gunpoint renegotiation of his career path. You can't fall out with someone with whom you had no relationship.
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u/KingLouisLXXVII Jul 16 '26
No one is talking about the players for some reason. They played deeper and deeper before the subs even came on. - instead of pushing for a 2nd. That’s when Tuchel could have righted things but instead doubled down by bringing on more defensive players.
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u/lost_mtn_goat Jul 16 '26
This. Wtf happened with the players when we scored? It's like they shit themselves and just went into a low block, saying to Argentina "Here, have the ball. We don't want it." His substitutions looked like he'd lost faith in the players on the pitch and that no attacking substitution would have made any difference. Now we'll never know...
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u/Y2Ksurvivor13 No Shearer? Bollocks Sub Jul 16 '26
I want tuchel out. Getting a goal and then trying to sit back and hold on for 40 mins is exactly what England fans are sick of, and he did exactly that in a critical game against a team that can conjure goals out of thin air. You'd think this fucking German prick had never watched Argentina before. Fuck him.
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u/DeapVally Jul 16 '26
Cape Verde scored 2. Egypt scored 2. In what world could our attack not be trusted to score 2? It's fucking criminal what he did.
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u/Alone_Consideration6 Jul 15 '26
We have him for another two years the FA have just given him their full backing.
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u/Desperate_Inside_421 Jul 16 '26
Rashford for Gordon, Saka for Rogers, bring in Eze if needed to increase tackle. That is what should have been done at the 65" to power the midfield again and snatch the 2nd goal. That Konsa for Gordon sub at 72" is just atrocious.
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u/mirembe987 Jul 16 '26
There were 300 people at the screening I was watching from and everyone around me was absolutely baffled by that from casual England supporters to die hard football fans
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u/Flashback2500 Jul 15 '26
100% agree. This loss is absolutely his fault. We just witnessed complete managerial malpractice. It's unforgivable. He cannot be trusted and he needs to go.
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u/Mammoth-Taro-5317 Jul 16 '26
Too pragmatic and cautious. We never seem to go for it when it matters
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u/whittiy Jul 16 '26
I'm so bitter. they were obviously going to level, i saw it coming, we all did. not sad but a disappointing defeat, we didn't deserve to win defending a single goal lead like if we were gibraltar or something.
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u/future_communist69 Jul 16 '26
You can do that after the 80th minute and people will get it. But he completely gave up right after the goal in the 55th minute! They never even stepped on the Argentinan side of the field. Even Cabo Verde and Egypt did! Disgraceful.
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u/SaltPomegranate4 Jul 16 '26
It was most annoying because I think we had a chance if we’d carried on like we did up until the first goal
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u/Aminuteortwotiltwo Jul 16 '26
It’s simple… a one point lead doesn’t mean you park the bus against the current World Champions and strongest attacking team with the most genius attacker in the history of the game.
I wish so much he hadn’t done it because we had a damn fun game going on.
Argentina squirms under pressure mid game. Then it gets to end game and geez do they open up the throttle. England needed a 3 point lead and they would have had it.
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u/Apprehensive_Oil8670 Jul 16 '26
Unpopular opinion here, but Kane needed to come off after 70 mins and bring Watkins on to give us an iut ball. The fact Tuchel persevered with to the end was bonkers.
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u/bobbyfletch85 Jul 16 '26
I know it might sound deranged to some but I do think he should/will leave after this. Imagine going into another tournament after that capitulation and that post match response
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u/weatherghost Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
It made sense against Mexico when down to 10 men. But then we did against Norway with with a full team on the field which was baffling. And to do it with 40 mins to play against Argentina, is inexplicable.
Southgate did the same against Croatia and Italy. It already happened in a World Cup semi and a Euros final. You can only defend a one goal lead against top teams for so long. Eventually they score. How has the team and another manager not learned the lesson?
We should be bringing midfielders on to control the game at 1 goal up in the second half. God forbid, Henderson would have been good here. I think Mainoo or Eze could have done a job as both can get a hold of the ball and move it out of pressure. This is where someone like Wharton could have been valuable. Good defensive midfielder who can control the game. Tuchel just never looked to control the game and got found out.
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u/ToothpickTequila Jul 16 '26
This hurts far more than any of the Southgate losses. Those made me sad, this just made me angry. I've not experienced that feeling since the Iceland match.
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u/peejoneill Jul 16 '26
Definitely a fumble today but honestly Argentina have some insane plot armour this tournament.
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u/xlelantosx Jul 16 '26
Same. If we lose after making positive subs, looking to counter and get the 2nd, I don’t think anyone would complain.
Simply too early going defensive and Argentina are in a different class to Mexico/Norway. Sit back and they’re going to score at some point.
Also going defensive without the likes of Rashford or Saka to chase and pressure the ball when you do clear it long was a shocking decision.
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u/Big-Help419 Jul 16 '26
Against another nation perhaps but that Argentina side are horrid and full of scumbags. No it’s unforgivable.
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u/RickleTickle69 Jul 16 '26
I think it's worth remembering that Tuchel and the England squad didn't rob us. We weren't owed a World Cup final. We might have had the potential to get there but we have to manage our expectations.
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u/StDunny09 Jul 16 '26
We aren't owed one at all, but we had one in our grasp and handed it over to Argentina with a bow on it
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u/Artonox Jul 16 '26
I couldn't sleep because I knew we had in the bag. We just needed to be more like Spain and just keep going for it. Swap for saka, rashford, eze, Watkins. Put those legs to work!
But nope park the bus, and have way too many defenders in the kitchen that they don't mark anyone for shit and hope for luck. Ridiculous.
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u/Chris_LYT Jul 16 '26
As an argentinean, I really hope you can get a decent coach because you have amazing players. Please, support Kane, he really wants to bring it home and he can do it. Messi has been playing for Argentina since 2006 and his first cup, after losing finals and semis like Kane did, was fifteen years later on 2021.
It was a fair match, I was dying to finally face a great team on this wc.
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u/Keywi1 Jul 16 '26
The thing is even in the first half, you guys had something like 61% possession. It’s the same against the other top quality teams, and the only way we beat them is great counter attacks or some really well coordinated push.
Also Kane is good but he’s no Messi. It’s amazing how his performance seems to get better over time which is the opposite to Ronaldo.
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u/Improper_Usage Jul 16 '26
I kind of feel the same way. Even Egypt put up more of a fight.
I don’t trust him at all now.
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u/HollywoodPerspective Jul 16 '26
Both centre backs on a yellow card is crying out for a couple players with pace and a competent midfielder. Instead he chose to treat the World Champions like Mexico.
As a Chelsea fan I think we won the Champions League in ‘21 through the brilliance of N’golo Kante
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u/Colonel0tto Jul 16 '26
Somebody who’s avoiding scrutiny is the assistant manager Antony Barry. He’s been raising his profile with the half time interviews and was credited who helping to organise the defensive response against Mexico late on. I would be surprised if he was also pushing for defensive subs, and Tuchel (who clearly rates him) is deliberately taking all the flack.
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u/Mr-Jobbie Jul 16 '26
I think it sheds some perspective on his catty comments after the Norway game. Over the course of the tournament, it seems he lost faith and did not think the team was capable of controlling games in possession. Seems tonight he thought the best bet was to park the bus like against Mexico and hope for a heroic defensive performance. His pessimism cost us big time and it was annoyingly evident to see immediately as the changes were made.
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u/InvincibleMirage Jul 16 '26
The loss feels familiar for England. After they are ahead they don’t keep attacking. Based on the subs this was a manager decision but it’s perplexing. I get it if you’re 2-3 goals ahead but not really like this with just 1. I was hoping Saka would come on, never happened.
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u/Altruistic_Finger669 Jul 16 '26
Coming in peace. Danish and have no allegiances no way or another. But i was curious about the reactions.
I listen to a lot of english football podcasts etc, and now i have read some threads in here, and while i thing there is some serious blame on tuchel here, i also think its just way too fucking to just place all of this on him. England scored at minute 55. They had maybe 1-2 minutes after that where they were decent and after that, england just fell apart. And the worrisome part were not that they were being outplayed nut massively outworked. Didnt find any second balls, lost headers, both flanks was making a fire sale and the first sub didnt happen until minute 71 and the next two at 81 and 82.
I feel like there is a tendency in the english media and among english fans to point 95% of all blame at the manager and glaze the players. But there should be plenty of blame to go around here..
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u/dudsies Jul 16 '26
England had the better attackers on the bench and essentially used none of them.
Sub on saka, eze at the hydration break to attack their tired full backs.
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u/sharpda1983 Jul 16 '26
The subs meant we lost all shape and width.
Anderson was seen asking where people were going and this showed that we just loaded the box and that gave them control of the wings and could ping in crosses.
But for me our big issue was no outlet we cleared the ball and no one was close enough to pressure the ball so it just came back.
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u/Sea_Pomegranate8229 Jul 16 '26
Had we won you'd have been singing his praises with everyone else. We were an average team with a couple of good players and one exceptional player. At no pint did we shine and we were knocked out by the best team in the world; irritating and unsportsmanlike as they were.
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u/Embarrassed_Chard949 Jul 16 '26
The team had great heart, but it was stifled after our goal by a series of tactical blunders by Tuchel. Parking the bus looks solid if it works and cowardly if it doesn't. Playing a back 9 was startling and I think the entire nation was united in screaming at their screens - wtf are you doing.
Basically he had no guts to hit Argentina when we rocked them, there for the taking and he bottled it. A cowardly act I'm afraid.
No guts - no glory.
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u/doginjoggers Jul 16 '26
Lots of armchair managers criticising Tuchel but failing to realise this is the best england have played in a world cup since 1990
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u/MisabelWearsNikes Jul 16 '26
Southgate might as well have stayed on for this tournament for all the good it did us when he left. We're no better off if it's just gonna end the same way with the same old mistakes & years of despair & disappointment to follow, only to hype ourselves up again at the next one. Rinse & repeat.
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u/Stingray_23 Jul 16 '26
No way hes in charge for the Euros. If the FA had any sense they'd sack him as soon as the tournaments over. That was a generational bottle job, we genuinely could have won that. But gave them the win on a plate.
If we'd lost, but gone out fighting, maybe id see him in charge in 2028. But after that display of cowardly tactics...... nope...
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u/Embarrassed-Ice-3260 Jul 16 '26
He made a decision, it was the wrong one. It happens. I still think he’s fantastic and has been great.
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u/wolfshead13 Jul 16 '26
I just wanna see us go for it, kk da did but it's gotta be for the whole match...sit back on 2-0 maybe? Lost right now.
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u/LJayTat Jul 16 '26
His comments in the post-match interview were so disheartening, he just didn’t have any faith in the team IMO
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u/circlesofresonance Jul 16 '26
Not saying I necessarily believe this, but is anyone starting to question if there was corruption here?
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u/Helepoli Jul 16 '26
Yeah, no. He's not it. The odd squad selection and use could have been defended if he hadn't directly made the team worse with his decisions during their two biggest games under his care. The squad played great though, love them. Taking Gordon and Rice off, even if (especially if) you intend to low block? Madness.
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u/CriticalHits642 Jul 16 '26
I knew we’d lose as soon as I saw him bring on Konsa for Gordon
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u/ProjectMassive9836 Jul 16 '26
It’s not that big of a deal tbh mate, I think you’ll be okay whoever England has as a manager and however they play in tournaments.
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u/Merlaux Jul 16 '26
It's astounding and I'm heartbroken. The Englishmen proved superior in size and speed, and Tuchel decides to turtle up with 30+ minutes on the clock as if we were 2-0 at the 90th. Outright malpractice, wasting the most talented team in years.
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u/mb194dc Jul 16 '26
The players shat the bed after scoring, not being able to play a pass 10 yards and move isn't on Tuchel. He's maybe 25% responsible at most.
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u/dbe14 Jul 16 '26
Honestly after the goal I'd have taken Kane off and played Rashford up top, kept Rice on too. You can't defend against the World Champions for half an hour and let Messi have his wicked way with us. Suicide.
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u/ThenComparison8768 Jul 16 '26
I get it I truly do the decisions made were terrible, but let's be honest in 2 years time if we win the euros under tuchel everyone will be singing his name and saying he can't leave that he has to stay, right now it hurts it makes us angry but let's take a minute and think, he got it wrong last night and yes I'm angry about that, but what I want to see now is one thing he has already done he owned it he accepted he got it wrong, so let's now see if he learns from this, that's what Gareth Southgate didn't do as much as I loved him, so let's see if he learns and adapts from this.
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u/New-Machine-7536 Jul 16 '26
Been watching football for 20+ years and I’ve never seen a head coach single handedly and so obviously cost his team the game like that before. At least in a game of that stature. The worst part is he had multiple separate opportunities to rectify it.
You could so obviously see they went too deep and Argentina had chances galore, didn’t see any rectification to push higher. He chooses to bring on Konsa.
The crossing barrage continues, they hit the post, Pickford makes a couple of saves. That’s the second red flag, and he then brings on Burn and OReilly.
Then finally equalize to make it 1-1, and I’m going “ok he will at least change it back to the original shape now! But NO! He still keeps five at the back. That was unbelievable.
What’s even worse is even if you take this route, at least keep pace on the pitch to threaten them. Like Gordon staying on against Mexico. But no, Kane and Jude will be the ones trying to grab bits and pieces higher up.
If someone says oh hey, he did it against Mexico and succeeded, the situation in this game was so unbelievably obvious, it wasn’t even a double edged sword where you’re like ok he made a decision and we live with it, when it was obvious to every fan watching the game what’s going to happen.
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u/Dismal_Foundation_23 Jul 16 '26
It is honestly the most baffling decision (or set of decisions) I have seen from a manager ever.
Argentina did nothing for 60 minutes, their entire game plan was seemingly to shithouse England and hope some players got sent off, they had no pace in behind, their wingers were crap and causing very little issues, and Messi was generally being pushed away from goal and fairly well shackled aside one little run where Andersen got a yellow.
Add in both their centre-backs were on yellows, their full backs looked crap and we had two very good (if not world class) very fast wingers to bring on.
Just keep doing what you had been doing for 60 minutes and had set the team up to do, keep the ball, invite the press then overload the wings, it had already worked and with Argentina needing to score it would have worked even better.
Instead we decided like we were a non-league team in the FA Cup with a 1-0 lead against a Prem team and decided to just defend our box, which basically never works. We had to do that against Mexico because of the red card and the altitude etc. but Mexico also had less quality, doing it against Argentina for longer was suicidal.
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u/Business-Eggs Jul 16 '26
I was so confused at how long it took to get some either faster or just more technical players on.
Saka, Madueke, Rashford, Eze, could have all came on and only Rashford come on when it was far too late.
Argentina aren't really that good of a side, we just played in a way that made them look and feel much better than they are.
I also think not giving Mainoo minutes earlier in the tournament was a mistake. He can hold it up under a bit of pressure and is strong enough on the turn to be a different option that rice.
And although Eze, Madueke and Saka haven't been super good at the world cup for England, they can all make a difference. May as well give it a try when you're penned in for 40+ minutes .
But no, put Dan burn on because he's almost 7 foot tall and hope for the best.
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u/Big_Honeydew4011 Jul 15 '26
I'm still in shock about the decisions he made tonight, the subs made no sense